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Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
Distribution: | Retail Price:$59.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
System Req: PC Mac Playstation 4 Xbox One | Out of date info? Let us know!

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102 posts found
  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/11/13 5:42:36 AM#81
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by stayBlind
Originally posted by Kenaoshi
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Did you guys even read it? It talks about mixing roles and being able to switch on the fly if need be. What more could you want? I will take this over some DPS spam fest any day. 

For what i read it is exactly what your describing.

"Make sure your party has at least one player that can heal the group."

That's what triggered the  "oh wait' moment.

lol at least this game will have some AI unlike GW2

Dude, can't you tell when someone is feeding you BULLSHIT.  Because all their hype for their AI is exactly that, a hot steaming pile of BULLSHIT!

How do you know? Let me hear your insightful thoughts on why you think that, and maybe while your at it, show me some proof and not just an opinion.

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

7/11/13 6:47:56 PM#82
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by stayBlind
Originally posted by Kenaoshi
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Did you guys even read it? It talks about mixing roles and being able to switch on the fly if need be. What more could you want? I will take this over some DPS spam fest any day. 

For what i read it is exactly what your describing.

"Make sure your party has at least one player that can heal the group."

That's what triggered the  "oh wait' moment.

lol at least this game will have some AI unlike GW2

Dude, can't you tell when someone is feeding you BULLSHIT.  Because all their hype for their AI is exactly that, a hot steaming pile of BULLSHIT!

How do you know? Let me hear your insightful thoughts on why you think that, and maybe while your at it, show me some proof and not just an opinion.

Because, there is no way to make an AI smart.  It has to do stupid shit like attack the tank.  If it was smart and went after the healer every time, then the tank is pointless, and the the AI would always win. 

So either the AI is dumb, or the game won't have any resemblance of the trinity and the mobs just wonder around and attack whoever.

I suspect both are true.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 6:59:05 PM#83
Originally posted by Uccisore

Instancing and Non-instancing can both be immersive. 

 

Instancing is good for giving the feeling that you're doing a quest that must be done, and you're the only one to do it- which is how so many quests are set up, lore-wise.

Which is exactly the problem with MMO quests, because you AREN'T the only person to do them, and the rest of the game world stays the same whether you do the quest or not. There is nothing immersive above poorly written quests with no stakes, pretending you're the only hero when there are literally thousands of other heroes around every corner.

What you're saying is, instancing makes MMOs pretend better that they're singleplayer games. THis is true, and exactly why instances shouldn't be in MMOs.

 

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 7:01:09 PM#84
Originally posted by Lucioon
Originally posted by Uccisore

Instancing and Non-instancing can both be immersive. 

 

Instancing is good for giving the feeling that you're doing a quest that must be done, and you're the only one to do it- which is how so many quests are set up, lore-wise. It create a feeling heroism and being unique and central to the game's world. 

Non-instancing is good for giving the feeling that you're just one cog in a much bigger machine- there's thousands of adventurers just like you, most of them better than you.  There's room for that, but very few, if any of the MMOs I play treat your character that way in the cutscenes/lore/quest info. 

It really just depends on what you want to be immersed IN.     Personally,  if I'm on a quest to save a villiage from an ancient evil, and when I get there there's already some other guy in hot pink armor teabagging the monster's corpse, well, I don't find that to be very immersive, nor do I find standing around 5 minutes waiting for the monster to magically re-appear so me and Pink Armor Man can kill it again  to be very immersive. 

To those that argues against instance, you must have forgotten the feeling of over 10 players each with Macros afk and camping the spawns.

All the MMOs I've played for long periods of time were without instances. This problem existed in exactly ZERO games without instances. Good game design solves this issue, not instances.

 

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 7:03:27 PM#85
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by mazut
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

I think you are the closest to the reality, still may turn playable, but average at best. :/

Wait, how are zerg dungeons good?

What the hell is a zerg dungeon? You mean, a normal dungeon? aka, one that other players are in, working with you?

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

7/11/13 7:59:46 PM#86
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by mazut
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

I think you are the closest to the reality, still may turn playable, but average at best. :/

Wait, how are zerg dungeons good?

What the hell is a zerg dungeon? You mean, a normal dungeon? aka, one that other players are in, working with you?

Open public dungeon = Zerg dungeon

You go in zerg it down in a few mins without trying

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 8:15:02 PM#87
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by mazut
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

I think you are the closest to the reality, still may turn playable, but average at best. :/

Wait, how are zerg dungeons good?

What the hell is a zerg dungeon? You mean, a normal dungeon? aka, one that other players are in, working with you?

Open public dungeon = Zerg dungeon

You go in zerg it down in a few mins without trying

I have never seen that work in any proper dungeon. Ever. Stop thinking of dungeons as if they're instances that you move through in a linear fashion to get to "the boss". Its not relavent to the conversation.

  IridescentOrk

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

7/11/13 8:29:27 PM#88
roll a healer, you will always find a group and get the epix l33t..  and why some want more noobs inside a dungeon? enough is enough lol

gameplay > graphics

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 8:43:59 PM#89
Originally posted by IridescentOrk
roll a healer, you will always find a group and get the epix l33t..  and why some want more noobs inside a dungeon? enough is enough lol

Yeah, fuck me for wanting other players in my multiplayer games. That's just stoopid!!

  IridescentOrk

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

7/11/13 8:47:07 PM#90
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by IridescentOrk
roll a healer, you will always find a group and get the epix l33t..  and why some want more noobs inside a dungeon? enough is enough lol

Yeah, fuck me for wanting other players in my multiplayer games. That's just stoopid!!

*shrugs* official word is this is no MMO, so I am happy with single player with some co-op features. we have been warned before release. it shouldn't be a surprise.

gameplay > graphics

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2128

7/11/13 8:47:22 PM#91

AC =  zerg dungeons

 

DAoC =  Zerg dungeons

 

Trying to think of other open dungeon games.

  jimprouner

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/06/13
Posts: 152

7/11/13 9:14:36 PM#92
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by mazut
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

I think you are the closest to the reality, still may turn playable, but average at best. :/

Wait, how are zerg dungeons good?

What the hell is a zerg dungeon? You mean, a normal dungeon? aka, one that other players are in, working with you?

Open public dungeon = Zerg dungeon

You go in zerg it down in a few mins without trying

I have never seen that work in any proper dungeon. Ever. Stop thinking of dungeons as if they're instances that you move through in a linear fashion to get to "the boss". Its not relavent to the conversation.

Public dungeons are zergs.  There is usually a dozen too many people around doing the same thing. 

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 9:25:09 PM#93
Originally posted by Horusra

AC =  zerg dungeons

 

DAoC =  Zerg dungeons

 

Trying to think of other open dungeon games.

How is DAoC a zerg dungeon? Most bosses were in the overland, and the tiny handful of bosses that existed inside dungeons didn't really drop anything, nor were you able to zerg the mobs, because then no one got any xp or items.

The only dungeon with raid bosses in them was Darkness Falls, considered one of the greatest dungeons of all time. It had mobs in it that had such good AI that even with hundreds of players people couldn't kill them (whereas a core group of 40 smart people did). There was even a mob in Darkness Falls that, despite it being a public dungeon between all three realms, there was a boss that was only killed once, on one server, in the history of the game.

 

So, the term "zerg dungeon" is like "dad rock" it means nothing.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 9:26:21 PM#94
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by mazut
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

I think you are the closest to the reality, still may turn playable, but average at best. :/

Wait, how are zerg dungeons good?

What the hell is a zerg dungeon? You mean, a normal dungeon? aka, one that other players are in, working with you?

Open public dungeon = Zerg dungeon

You go in zerg it down in a few mins without trying

I have never seen that work in any proper dungeon. Ever. Stop thinking of dungeons as if they're instances that you move through in a linear fashion to get to "the boss". Its not relavent to the conversation.

Public dungeons are zergs.  There is usually a dozen too many people around doing the same thing. 

Really? Tell me what "zerg dungeon" games you've played? GW2 doesn't count because that design is totally broken.

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2128

7/11/13 9:41:36 PM#95
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by jimprouner
Originally posted by mazut
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

I think you are the closest to the reality, still may turn playable, but average at best. :/

Wait, how are zerg dungeons good?

What the hell is a zerg dungeon? You mean, a normal dungeon? aka, one that other players are in, working with you?

Open public dungeon = Zerg dungeon

You go in zerg it down in a few mins without trying

I have never seen that work in any proper dungeon. Ever. Stop thinking of dungeons as if they're instances that you move through in a linear fashion to get to "the boss". Its not relavent to the conversation.

Public dungeons are zergs.  There is usually a dozen too many people around doing the same thing. 

Really? Tell me what "zerg dungeon" games you've played? GW2 doesn't count because that design is totally broken.

AC and DAoC...zerg.

  SlyLoK

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 939

7/11/13 9:42:20 PM#96
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

Except there will still be public dungeons. It was never said that there would ONLY be public dungeons but a mixture of public and instances.

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/11/13 9:51:21 PM#97
Originally posted by SlyLoK
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Well that's it. The last interesting feature of this game is gone.

 

This has gone through so much back peddling and revision it's scary. Matt Frior had a vision for a good game. Whoever is publishing this, has stripped it of that vision.

 

One of the very first things Matt said about the game was that the dungeons would be PUBLIC and huge, focused on people sharing the space, like DAoC dungeons. 

 

Now that's gone.

And so now, my interest is gone.

 

I suspected it was axed ages ago when they stopped mentioning it and started lauding instances and phased gameplay. You can't have proper public dungeons AS WELL as instanced dungeons. One gets undermined by the other. So, they scrapped the good dungeons and went with WoW dungeons.

Except there will still be public dungeons. It was never said that there would ONLY be public dungeons but a mixture of public and instances.

Public dungeons have not been mentioned in like 2-3 years. It's safe to say that, if they're in the game at all (which is unlikely) that they're not an important part of the game. Instanced and public dungeons cannot coexist in the same game, not unless the public dungeons are the main dungeons (which in this game they're not), and even then they're hard to get right.

  svann

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1632

7/16/13 9:22:27 AM#98
Originally posted by Total_Hunt
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Did you guys even read it? It talks about mixing roles and being able to switch on the fly if need be. What more could you want? I will take this over some DPS spam fest any day. 

 

I'm sure that will just be a gimmick only possible in easy/leveling dungeons.

Sure.  "Its wow clone because even though they are stating differences it couldnt possibly be different because I already know its wow clone"

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2945

7/16/13 1:17:05 PM#99
Davisflight, It wasn't years, it was recently they said there would be both. Have no clue why you think both can't coexist.

There Is Always Hope!

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

7/19/13 7:25:10 PM#100
Originally posted by keithian
Davisflight, It wasn't years, it was recently they said there would be both. Have no clue why you think both can't coexist.

No game has kept public dungeons relavent while including instances. And from everything we've heard, instances and phasing and linear questing is the point of this game, meaning, public dungeons will be ignored.

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