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Zenimax Online Studios | Play Now
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
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102 posts found
  DSWBeef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 794

7/03/13 2:52:05 AM#21
A decent themepark mmo? Probably. A Elder Scrolls game? Definitely not. Ill pass.

Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2908

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/03/13 3:02:37 AM#22
Originally posted by Alders

4-man party size is unacceptable.  Did we not learn from TOR?

My preferred minimum is 6.

 I'd rather have 8 to 9 but that's because I think you need more roles other then tank, healer, DPS.  There should be support buffer/debuffer, Crowd Controller, and puller.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2908

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/03/13 3:04:08 AM#23
Originally posted by DSWBeef
A decent themepark mmo? Probably. A Elder Scrolls game? Definitely not. Ill pass.

 I'm afraid it's going to be too much Elder Scrolls meaning zero endgame.

 

What we need is more MMO features and as it stands if youre not into PvP, this looks like another 3 monther.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1795

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

7/03/13 10:19:36 AM#24
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Alders

4-man party size is unacceptable.  Did we not learn from TOR?

My preferred minimum is 6.

 I'd rather have 8 to 9 but that's because I think you need more roles other then tank, healer, DPS.  There should be support buffer/debuffer, Crowd Controller, and puller.

 

Oh i agree. but 6 is my minimum.

I'm tired of only really requiring a good tank and healer and everyone else can be comatose and still complete a dungeon.

I want a bard, debuffer, and CC'er in every group.  Tank and healer makes 5, so with a few dps, we're leaning towards 8-man groups.  That sounds like a lot more fun to me.

  CthulhuPuffs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 381

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

7/03/13 10:48:30 AM#25

ESO is phased and instanced anyway, so why cant they just scale the dungeons to the size of the group? 4, 6, 8, 10, whatever.

I dont understand Zenimax's fascination with "restrictions".

Race=Faction, 4 person Group limit. Whats next? Only Male avatars can fight in Cyrodiil, Female avatars must stay back and cook sweetrolls?

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

7/03/13 10:51:27 AM#26

4 Man is refreshingly simple yet challenging, yet gives them a chance to concentrate on the PvE dynamic as they are trying to appease Elder Scrolls fans and MMORPG fans which would be huge undertaking imo...

Also, there is no doubt they can double, triple, quadruple, etc...the required number of players for added tougher instances, events, scenerios on the fly (with downloaded content)

Ya'll are funny; Posting how your not even giving the game a chance and were 9 months from release

 

Reminds me of something...

  Betaguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2655

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

7/03/13 10:53:51 AM#27
I laugh at the first couple negative posts... hehe. Sounds pretty awesome if it turns out like it reads.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

7/03/13 11:24:20 PM#28
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.
  Shaigh

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 370

7/04/13 2:48:24 PM#29
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

You are bit late on the rage-train on this one. Party-sized dungeons being instanced was known back in may 2012.

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 3053

7/04/13 6:07:47 PM#30
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

Would it be better that everyone waits on a line because too many people are in the same dungeon? lol. Regardless, there are non instanced areas as well, so I think they are striking a good balance.

As far as the number, I kind of liked the 5 model better just because it felt right in the WOW days...but whether it's 4 or 6 it doesn't really matter to me as long as the dungeons are fun and I'm not spending forever spamming a LFG channel. That is not fun. I'm glad that won't be an issue with this game.

There Is Always Hope!

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

7/05/13 1:22:19 AM#31
Originally posted by Shaigh
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

You are bit late on the rage-train on this one. Party-sized dungeons being instanced was known back in may 2012.

Back in 2012 they were still talking about how the main dungeons would be public dungeons (though having both party and public dungeons is a moronic design flaw, they never work together). But now it seems they're out entirely.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

7/05/13 1:23:02 AM#32
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

Would it be better that everyone waits on a line because too many people are in the same dungeon? lol.

That has literally never happened in any MMO I've ever played with public dungeons. Try playing something that isn't WoW before you say something so uninformed.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1571

7/05/13 2:14:06 AM#33
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

Would it be better that everyone waits on a line because too many people are in the same dungeon? lol.

That has literally never happened in any MMO I've ever played with public dungeons. Try playing something that isn't WoW before you say something so uninformed.

It happened. In older games like EQ1 and DAoC.

Low spawn rate ... yawn; high spawn rate and you might have to fight your way both in and out of a dungeon. And if the party ran out rather than killed the mobs cries of "Train" might be heard. Guild waiting lists for world bosses. It was certainly very different. No surprise maybe that it was SoE who came up with the whole idea of instancing enabling them to create a uniform player experience. So world immersion and feel are arguments for instancing.

It can be taken to far - usually done for hardware orientated reasons. And when badly done instancing sucks and destroys the world feel; Pirates of the Carribean when it first came out being a prime example. Felt like every room was an instance - really sad it was until fixed.

The other related aspect is whether you have to travel to an instance or whether a "dungeon finder" tool simply "transports" you to the instance. The question can even be extended to "portal stones" seen first in Asheron's Call. (Travel in EQ1 was harder then). That is two different considerations though: putting groups together and travel.

I always liked CoH's implementation: you travelled usually on the train and then made your way to the entrance; for me it extended the immersion in the world. I could see ESO have instant transport however.

Overall the advantages - when done for the right reasons - outweigh the negatives.

 

4 people to a dungeon: that is today. Maybe next year there will be larger adventures but again there is a balance. Content creation takes time. Finding people to complete the content can take time - hence the argument for a dungeon finder tool. And that then becomes: yes I can join you but it will take me 15 minutes to get to you .... which could be a "problem" in CoH. Immersion had a "cost" and sometimes that meant "yawn" = fail as far as many were concerned. 

It all sounds so simple but getting it right and choosing the right mix is why a lot of games fail. 

 

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

7/05/13 4:28:54 AM#34
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

Would it be better that everyone waits on a line because too many people are in the same dungeon? lol.

That has literally never happened in any MMO I've ever played with public dungeons. Try playing something that isn't WoW before you say something so uninformed.

It happened. In older games like EQ1 and DAoC.


Overall the advantages - when done for the right reasons - outweigh the negatives.

 

Taking the MMO out of MMO is never justified. Good design makes the issues go away.

EQ1 was poorly designed.

DAoC was not. You never, EVER had to wait in line for a fucking dungeon. The closest to that happening was "hey, let's go to the disciple room. Hm, people already there, LET'S MOVE TO ONE OF THE DOZENS OF OTHER ROOMS IN THIS PLACE". There was no "line". Not once. Because the devs were moronic enough to put one low respawn mob with a super power weapon in the dungeon.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1437

7/05/13 12:32:41 PM#35
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

Would it be better that everyone waits on a line because too many people are in the same dungeon? lol.

That has literally never happened in any MMO I've ever played with public dungeons. Try playing something that isn't WoW before you say something so uninformed.

It happened. In older games like EQ1 and DAoC.


Overall the advantages - when done for the right reasons - outweigh the negatives.

 

Taking the MMO out of MMO is never justified. Good design makes the issues go away.

EQ1 was poorly designed.

DAoC was not. You never, EVER had to wait in line for a fucking dungeon. The closest to that happening was "hey, let's go to the disciple room. Hm, people already there, LET'S MOVE TO ONE OF THE DOZENS OF OTHER ROOMS IN THIS PLACE". There was no "line". Not once. Because the devs were moronic enough to put one low respawn mob with a super power weapon in the dungeon.

Instances do not take the MMO out of the MMO.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

7/05/13 12:43:54 PM#36
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

Would it be better that everyone waits on a line because too many people are in the same dungeon? lol.

That has literally never happened in any MMO I've ever played with public dungeons. Try playing something that isn't WoW before you say something so uninformed.

It happened. In older games like EQ1 and DAoC.


Overall the advantages - when done for the right reasons - outweigh the negatives.

 

Taking the MMO out of MMO is never justified. Good design makes the issues go away.

EQ1 was poorly designed.

DAoC was not. You never, EVER had to wait in line for a fucking dungeon. The closest to that happening was "hey, let's go to the disciple room. Hm, people already there, LET'S MOVE TO ONE OF THE DOZENS OF OTHER ROOMS IN THIS PLACE". There was no "line". Not once. Because the devs were moronic enough to put one low respawn mob with a super power weapon in the dungeon.

Instances do not take the MMO out of the MMO.

In almost every MMO I've ever played, yes they do.

Not only is it immersion breaking, and anti social, but if the instances are the main part of the game (they often are) then the population vanishes into these nega realms, and you can never interact with them, and the rest of the game becomes a wasteland.

Instanced has been used well in an MMO maybe a grand total of once. More often than not, its a crutch/shortcut for developers to make up for bad game design.

  CthulhuPuffs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 381

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

7/05/13 12:53:58 PM#37
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm shocked at the number of people that aren't angry about instances. It undermines not only MMOs, but the whole Elderscrolls feel.

Would it be better that everyone waits on a line because too many people are in the same dungeon? lol.

That has literally never happened in any MMO I've ever played with public dungeons. Try playing something that isn't WoW before you say something so uninformed.

It happened. In older games like EQ1 and DAoC.


Overall the advantages - when done for the right reasons - outweigh the negatives.

 

Taking the MMO out of MMO is never justified. Good design makes the issues go away.

EQ1 was poorly designed.

DAoC was not. You never, EVER had to wait in line for a fucking dungeon. The closest to that happening was "hey, let's go to the disciple room. Hm, people already there, LET'S MOVE TO ONE OF THE DOZENS OF OTHER ROOMS IN THIS PLACE". There was no "line". Not once. Because the devs were moronic enough to put one low respawn mob with a super power weapon in the dungeon.

Instances do not take the MMO out of the MMO.

In almost every MMO I've ever played, yes they do.

Not only is it immersion breaking, and anti social, but if the instances are the main part of the game (they often are) then the population vanishes into these nega realms, and you can never interact with them, and the rest of the game becomes a wasteland.

Instanced has been used well in an MMO maybe a grand total of once. More often than not, its a crutch/shortcut for developers to make up for bad game design.

The only game where I have felt Instancing has worked well, and not killed immersion, was in Fallen Earth.

Instancing transition was seamless. No loading screen. You almost couldnt tell that you had left the actual game world and were in a private instance.

In every other game I have played that used instancing the world felt disconnected from the little mission boxes you were sent into.

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1437

7/05/13 2:10:34 PM#38

MMO's don't have to be worlds or even persistent though. MMORPG's possibly, but MMO's no.

I can still interact with people in different instances by changing to that instance or vice versa. Instances DO NOT stop me from interacting with everyone on the server.

I think this boils down to "I do/don't like it so they must/mustn't work".

  velmax

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/11
Posts: 216

7/05/13 2:13:34 PM#39
Everything sounds good on paper, lets hope it works in the game. 
  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

7/05/13 3:05:05 PM#40

Advantages and Disadvantages of contested PvE dungeons:

1) Community enhancing

2) More immersive contesting PvE alongside and with others from your alliance

3) Possible trainwrecks

4) Kill stealers & Ninja Looters & chest stwealers

5) Waiting for MOB resets and timers

6) Waiting for campers to move to another camp that have been camping the same MOBs for too long.

7) Your late for work/school/dates/events or you miss out entirely

8) Takes alot more bandwidth/data useage then instances

9) You don't have to PUG it.

10) MOB types, loot tables, and other dynamics aren't as varied as instances

 

Advantages and Disadvantages of instanced PvE dungeons:

1) You can have a preset dungeon group or you can queue for a short period for the instance and bam your in

2) You get to meet and group with alot more interesting, wonderful, unique people from all over the world

3) You don't have to wait for MOB resets or timers

4) Frees up alot of bandwidth/date useage for other contested content like large scale PvP

5) Allows designers and developers to have varied MOB types, loot, etc...for each group (even if in the same instanced dungeon)

6) You can kick the asshat (s) that is/are in your group and the queue finds a replacement without waiting

7) You don't have to miss out or be late for anything so you can a much more productive, enjoyable real life

8) Immersion enhancing as you can have someone stealth/scout ahead and its just you and your group using strategy and tactics without any interference or disruption from any other groups

9) Your not dealing with kill stealers, ninja looters, chest stealers, etc...

10) Lets face it PUGs rawk!

 

Everquest was a complete clusterfuck and I was there to fully experience all from day one of launch. If you didn't experience it firsthand you simply have no idea whatsoever and today there are alot more MMORPG players to contend with for contested content.

Dark Age of Camelot wasn't so bad as I stayed ahead of the curve and ended up the first player to 50 in my realm on my server. It also wasn't so bad having different realms yet what sucked is not being able to play the other realms and experience their content early on after release.

Any other MMORPGs you care to mention that had contested PvE content instead of instances you can bring to the table?

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