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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Official post - when questing in other faction's zones won't even be able to see other faction's players.

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277 posts found
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 2854

4/30/13 11:53:39 AM#141
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Not really, every system that changes how it works to stop force flagging players find a way. Players are as creative as game designers. Like I said this is just a few ways. We can list many many more. Fact is, flag system has a trigger to flag you and players learn how to mess with them.

Sorry but you are flat out wrong.

If I need to manually and purposefully choose to flag for PvP and I don't want to engage in PvP then you cannot get me to do so. The only trigger is ME and I don't want to flag. Tell me how you change that?

 

You always make me smile =-) You can put a point right in your face. Even quote you with your own words and you wont budge even when facts are right in your face. Im not sure why I even bother replying to you. lol I guess I like watching this boil down to the same conclusion every time. Its funny to watch.

  Eol-

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 262

4/30/13 11:53:58 AM#142
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

It's more accurate to say that you pick a race and your alliance is then forced on you, there's no choice involved in alliance membership. That's part of the TES fan's problems with this game.

All this happens at character creation when you pick your race.

Thats true of any RvR game, where races are part of a realm. And frankly it makes a lot more sense than letting races split up and join any alliance they want. Because in the ES lore I have seen, each race tends to be all on one side and sticks together. So if you did it your way, it would be even less consistent with ES lore, because then race would have no bearing on alliance whatsoever.

Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 948

4/30/13 11:59:10 AM#143
Originally posted by immodium

I'm not really speaking for everyone in that post. I clearly start the sentence with 'I prefer'. The rest of my post is all my opinions.

I don't see me claiming this is what TES fans want in any of my posts.

Well the point is, we all exagerate to make our points from time to time. So even if you were to claim it I would take it with a pinch of salt.

The difference is when people take exception to people using generic statements like "TES fans" MMO fans" or any other type of generalisation and draws the discussion off on a tangent away from the point being made. It is a tactic used to hide the real point of discussion.

You see the real issue here is that Nano thinks there isn't any other way then how the developers way...unless they change that way in which case the new way is the only way...unless the developers change that way and then the new way is the only way...

[mod edit]

  Eol-

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 262

4/30/13 12:00:25 PM#144
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Udon
Why would it cost $50 million to add 2 different rulesets.

The whole of daoc cost $2.5 million to make.

The coop server is easy.
Turn off pvp in cyrodil
Let players go anywhere
Let players group and guild with anyone

The ffa server Is tougher, but the let players go anywhere and let players group and guild with anyone bit you've already done for the coop server. You then need to flag pvp on in more areas of the world (except maybe noob zones or cities) and add done mechanic for guilds claiming keeps.

Both sound like less work than this 50+ and 50++ endgame pve in special phases fudge.

If this would gain them enough additional players and revenues to justify the added costs, then I expect they will add them. But its not at all evident that would be the case. The DAoC coop server and PvP servers were a pretty small fraction of the player base, especially the PvP servers which started out with lots of players but rapidly lost most of them. IMO most of the people on those servers in DAoC were already DAoC players anyway, with ongoing subs and characters on other servers. I wonder if they really created additional profit or just cannibalized the other servers.

Personally I think its best if the developers decide to take one approach, and put all their effort into making that a success. If they develop a fun game, people will play it, period. And if they dont, the additional rulesets wont save them. Besides, they could always add those down the road if there was enough demand. But not at the expense of resources devoted to the core game.

Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 948

4/30/13 12:01:47 PM#145
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Not really, every system that changes how it works to stop force flagging players find a way. Players are as creative as game designers. Like I said this is just a few ways. We can list many many more. Fact is, flag system has a trigger to flag you and players learn how to mess with them.

Sorry but you are flat out wrong.

If I need to manually and purposefully choose to flag for PvP and I don't want to engage in PvP then you cannot get me to do so. The only trigger is ME and I don't want to flag. Tell me how you change that?

 

You always make me smile =-) You can put a point right in your face. Even quote you with your own words and you wont budge even when facts are right in your face. Im not sure why I even bother replying to you. lol I guess I like watching this boil down to the same conclusion every time. Its funny to watch.

Evade my point. Make personal insult. Hope point is lost. Divert critisicm away from game and focus onto personal stuff...

job done, obvious flaw in argument cleverly concealed and lost in sea of posts...

 

  Eol-

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 262

4/30/13 12:05:07 PM#146
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by immodium

I'm not really speaking for everyone in that post. I clearly start the sentence with 'I prefer'. The rest of my post is all my opinions.

I don't see me claiming this is what TES fans want in any of my posts.

Well the point is, we all exagerate to make our points from time to time. So even if you were to claim it I would take it with a pinch of salt.

The difference is when people take exception to people using generic statements like "TES fans" MMO fans" or any other type of generalisation and draws the discussion off on a tangent away from the point being made. It is a tactic used to hide the real point of discussion.

You see the real issue here is that Nano thinks there isn't any other way then how the developers way...unless they change that way in which case the new way is the only way...unless the developers change that way and then the new way is the only way...

[mod edit]

Of course there are other ways. The developers obviously considered those. But there is only one way that will end up happening, and thats the path that the developers chose. I dont understand all of the discussion about what certain people would have preferred. Its a moot point. They are choosing an approach, and either you can buy that game and play it, or not buy it. And if you're not going to buy it and play it, whats the point of talking about other approaches that could have happened? And just because a few people on a forum would have preferred a different approach, that doesnt mean they speak for the majority, or for ES fans, or for MMORPG fans, or anyone else. There are plenty of games with plenty of rulesets out there for people to choose from.

Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 2854

4/30/13 12:05:17 PM#147
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by immodium

I'm not really speaking for everyone in that post. I clearly start the sentence with 'I prefer'. The rest of my post is all my opinions.

I don't see me claiming this is what TES fans want in any of my posts.

Well the point is, we all exagerate to make our points from time to time. So even if you were to claim it I would take it with a pinch of salt.

The difference is when people take exception to people using generic statements like "TES fans" MMO fans" or any other type of generalisation and draws the discussion off on a tangent away from the point being made. It is a tactic used to hide the real point of discussion.

You see the real issue here is that Nano thinks there isn't any other way then how the developers way...unless they change that way in which case the new way is the only way...unless the developers change that way and then the new way is the only way...

[mod edit]

 

Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Then I would stop using terms like "The real TES fans want" or "This is what the customers want" As for the changes to the game, they kept the core design intact. So Im 100% fine with the changes. 

Quote me and I will appologise.

At worst I might generalise rather then provide specific quantifiable numbers to each forum and the level of complaints but that is just for ease of conversation. If anyone does use the term then I am pretty confident it is used as a basis for their argument formed from their personal opinion. To read anything more from such a statement ignores the fact that people usually do it to give weight to their statement rather then any actual belief that their proposition actuall is a reflection of "Everyone".

The point I made or at least was trying to make was that, changes are being made for a reason. And it is a fair assumption that the reason is the results from Beta testing, their market research into what 'TES fans' want or more likely a combination of both these and their own internal testing.

I would argue though that the reason they are having to make changes is due to the very fact that they have kept the core design in tact. The reason for each of these changes, workarounds, compromises etc...is simply because, this far into development that are unable to change the core design even if they wanted to (I actually think the core design could be changed but that is just opinion).

When you look at the game from a design point of view it is easy to follow the path back the the root issue. And that root issue is simply that they took a game that is designed around freedoms and openess and built the game around a system they is reliant upon locked and enclosed systems.

I personally think it is a no brainer why there seems to be a backlash that Zenimax are trying to address.

=-) Or quote me and I will make excuses

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

4/30/13 12:06:29 PM#148
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Davis is right.

So far I see 2 daoc features in this game.

1 crafted gear is good
2 there's some sort of end game 3 sided pvp, although it will be more like gw2 than daoc anyway (e.g. a casual, simplified, kiddie friendly version)

That's it, nothing else in the game reminds me of daoc at all. For example all these things we know of TESO are most definetly NOT daoc.
1 instances of dungeons and world zones
2 phasing
3 megaserver
4 led by the nose questing
5 gw2 combat
6 rift class system
7 no raids
8 no housing
9 no ffa servers
10 no pure pve servers
11 you are the hero story line
12 no server community, piss people off, just jump to another shard

This.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 12:07:30 PM#149
Actually Mael
Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

It is after all a wow clone.
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2702

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/30/13 12:08:47 PM#150


Originally posted by JasonJ
Quick, send in the same 4 people that will say the same things they always say even though Zenimax themselves address this worry publicly. They were not targetting the extremely low quantity of diehard DaoC players, they want the TES fanbase, and they dont understand why they are so upset. Sure sign of a future full of trouble for a game when the makers are that disconnected from reality.

Quoted for truth, and my agreeing opinion :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2702

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/30/13 12:11:08 PM#151


Originally posted by dennis5
This is a 3 faction in war game. That's the plan. Were it otherwise sure.....but simple logic says No grouping with enemy alliance members, unless they are double agents and working for you :p

Exactly. This is a 3 faction war game, not an Elder Scroll MMORPG.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 12:14:25 PM#152
Is it the "tes fanbase" that are upset?

It is it?
The now homeless swg fanbase
The now ancient EQ fanbase
The want a game like darkfall, that wors with a decent budget fanbase
The want a game like eve but not with space ships fanbase
The want a game like vanguard, that people will actually play due to the ip fanbase

Etc.. etc..
  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

4/30/13 12:14:58 PM#153
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

It's more accurate to say that you pick a race and your alliance is then forced on you, there's no choice involved in alliance membership. That's part of the TES fan's problems with this game.

All this happens at character creation when you pick your race.

Thats true of any RvR game, where races are part of a realm. And frankly it makes a lot more sense than letting races split up and join any alliance they want. Because in the ES lore I have seen, each race tends to be all on one side and sticks together. So if you did it your way, it would be even less consistent with ES lore, because then race would have no bearing on alliance whatsoever.

Yeah I never understood the people who say its fits TES more to allow people to go into other lands they're at war with without consequence. In all the TES lore, when races are at war with one another, they DO NOT mingle.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 2854

4/30/13 12:17:01 PM#154
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Actually Mael
Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

It is after all a wow clone.

First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

  SlyLoK

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 888

4/30/13 12:18:12 PM#155
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Davis is right.

So far I see 2 daoc features in this game.

1 crafted gear is good
2 there's some sort of end game 3 sided pvp, although it will be more like gw2 than daoc anyway (e.g. a casual, simplified, kiddie friendly version)

That's it, nothing else in the game reminds me of daoc at all. For example all these things we know of TESO are most definetly NOT daoc.
1 instances of dungeons and world zones
2 phasing
3 megaserver
4 led by the nose questing
5 gw2 combat
6 rift class system
7 no raids
8 no housing
9 no ffa servers
10 no pure pve servers
11 you are the hero story line
12 no server community, piss people off, just jump to another shard

This.

Except not. 

1. There are also open dungeons.

2. Already been said that it doesnt effect gameplay

3. Sounds good to me. Not sure what the problem is..

4. Hardly. If being ' led by the nose questing ' means going out exploring and finding quests then sign me up.

5. Somewhat and Not really at the same time.

6. I dont see any similarities at all.

7. True but they will come.

9. True and same as #8 it will be around at some point. EQ2 style housing is what I want.. Keep the houses out of the game world.

10. Ummm. Stay out of Cyrodil and you will have your PvE server with tons of content.

11. And? 

12. Assumption. You can play with your friends and make new ones the same as any other MMO.

Sounds like a pretty good pros list to me.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 4708

4/30/13 12:19:30 PM#156
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by immodium

I'm not really speaking for everyone in that post. I clearly start the sentence with 'I prefer'. The rest of my post is all my opinions.

I don't see me claiming this is what TES fans want in any of my posts.

Well the point is, we all exagerate to make our points from time to time. So even if you were to claim it I would take it with a pinch of salt.

The difference is when people take exception to people using generic statements like "TES fans" MMO fans" or any other type of generalisation and draws the discussion off on a tangent away from the point being made. It is a tactic used to hide the real point of discussion.

You see the real issue here is that Nano thinks there isn't any other way then how the developers way...unless they change that way in which case the new way is the only way...unless the developers change that way and then the new way is the only way...

[mod edit]

 

Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Then I would stop using terms like "The real TES fans want" or "This is what the customers want" As for the changes to the game, they kept the core design intact. So Im 100% fine with the changes. 

Quote me and I will appologise.

At worst I might generalise rather then provide specific quantifiable numbers to each forum and the level of complaints but that is just for ease of conversation. If anyone does use the term then I am pretty confident it is used as a basis for their argument formed from their personal opinion. To read anything more from such a statement ignores the fact that people usually do it to give weight to their statement rather then any actual belief that their proposition actuall is a reflection of "Everyone".

The point I made or at least was trying to make was that, changes are being made for a reason. And it is a fair assumption that the reason is the results from Beta testing, their market research into what 'TES fans' want or more likely a combination of both these and their own internal testing.

I would argue though that the reason they are having to make changes is due to the very fact that they have kept the core design in tact. The reason for each of these changes, workarounds, compromises etc...is simply because, this far into development that are unable to change the core design even if they wanted to (I actually think the core design could be changed but that is just opinion).

When you look at the game from a design point of view it is easy to follow the path back the the root issue. And that root issue is simply that they took a game that is designed around freedoms and openess and built the game around a system they is reliant upon locked and enclosed systems.

I personally think it is a no brainer why there seems to be a backlash that Zenimax are trying to address.

=-) Or quote me and I will make excuses

while Zenimax are trying to address some of these concerns, the problem is that their not going far enough, or even it seems, in the right direction,  it could be that the game engine itself is part of the problem, or at least the server system, which at the moment could even be a major factor in the games failure in general,  realm pride has been quoted several times in different arguments, but the game is not designed to encourage realm pride, for one thing, the only times you'll meet the players your fighting alongside in cyrodiil.. is in cyrodil.. outside of your particular campaign, you will more likely be playing alongside people from different campaigns, becoming a member of a guild, puts all those guild members on the same 'server' outside of cyrodil, instead of them being on whichever happens to have a space free on at the time of your zoning into it..  sometimes, i think this game is being made by cryptic...  it just sounds too much like how they do things.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 12:20:27 PM#157
Why do eq2 housing when daoc housing is better.

Although swg did housing the best.
  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1234

Reason is a necessity

4/30/13 12:20:36 PM#158
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Actually Mael
Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

It is after all a wow clone.

First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

That is an old problem that exists but a small problem really. AOE skills were not that necessary unless you were chain pulling in EQ. You could avoid using AOE skills and still chain farm if you were good enough or had a monk us FD. There are ways to avoid annoying higher levels.

  SlyLoK

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 888

4/30/13 12:22:12 PM#159
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by SlyLoK

Old information.

Questing in the other factions territory will be like leveled content from previous TES games providing more PvE content and rewards. Dont see the problem other than those that only want to go into the other factions area to gank low level players.

WHHHIIIINNNNE - I want go to be able to explore all territories with one character! - ZOS : OK here you go have fun - WHHHIIIINNNNNE - What I really meant was that I wanted to gank lowbies! - ZOS : Not happening.

Cant please the haters who complain about everything.

'Haters' who as you put it 'WHHIIIINNNE' are mostly just people with opinions you don't care for.

Why don't you engage with them without the insults?

No insults at all. Not sure where you came up with that idea. People were whining because of faction locks and then ZOS changed to where you can adventure in other faction lands and now they chose something else to whine about.. Its never ending.

  Siug

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 914

4/30/13 12:27:35 PM#160
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Why do eq2 housing when daoc housing is better.

Although swg did housing the best.

Please stop this Daoc shite. If anything then mentioning this one constantly in every single TES thread creates negative vibes. I don't care about Daoc, never cared and never will. But I do care about TES. I dont mind RvR but if this turns into some half-arsed Daoc shite then it will fail. Period.

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