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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Official post - when questing in other faction's zones won't even be able to see other faction's players.

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277 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 6:48:43 AM#61
Mael
Actual daoc design would be a good fit for TESO.

Some servers were 3 faction
Some servers were guild vs guild
Some servers were pure pve
No instances at all
Very important crafting
Non instanced housing
Huge everyone on the server raids that took half a day

But.....
The TESO feature list has more in common with tsw than it does daoc
1 some sort of 3 sided pvp, we know little about, but has wooly mechanics such as guesting in a "friends" campaign
2 lots of Instancing and phasing
3 personal story
4 no raids
5 mega server
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/30/13 6:52:28 AM#62

To be honest - the unlockable enemy faction areas is the cleverest compromise they could have come up with.

I really don't think there was any practical and likely successful way to have non-Cyrodil PvP and keep enough of what makes TES, TES.

So I don't aree with those who don't like this compromise, but then I was myself only vocal about freedom to explore, and I respect those who see this as not nearly enough.

If the PvE content is appropriate for the scenario of the war, then that's fine with me. If I want to fight enemy faction members I am sure Cyrodil will give me a fair crack of that particular whip.

What remains however - as much as I like the compromise, is a lingering disbelief that Zenimax developed this ES game for so long without someone, somewhere within their team saying;

"Hang on a minute, why are we ignoring some of the core elements of TES that the fans love so much? How will that impact our marketting? What are the comparative numbers and crossover between DAoC fans and TES fans? Couldn't we deliver for both groups preferences without game-changing compromise? Why don't we ask them before we start setting things in stone!?"

This is a question I cannot answer... and I feel what has been said before on this thread is right - it does not bode well for as yet unknown parts of the game if the team and/or individuals who suffered this surprising level of blinkered vision are still the ones calling the big shots.

Don't get me wrong - I am going to give the game a good tryout, and I will have my fingers tightly crossed that they pull it off as well (or even approaching as well) as the IP deserves... but I do so with the mimimum confidence necessary to purchase and play.

Time will tell.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7249

4/30/13 6:54:48 AM#63
This one is made of wierd stuff.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19116

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/30/13 6:55:33 AM#64
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Mael
Actual daoc design would be a good fit for TESO.

Some servers were 3 faction
Some servers were guild vs guild
Some servers were pure pve
No instances at all
Very important crafting
Non instanced housing
Huge everyone on the server raids that took half a day

But.....
The TESO feature list has more in common with tsw than it does daoc
1 some sort of 3 sided pvp, we know little about, but has wooly mechanics such as guesting in a "friends" campaign
2 lots of Instancing and phasing
3 personal story
4 no raids
5 mega server

Agree, TESO really is not all that much like DAOC, has some elements of it to be sure, but it also has elements from WOW, TSW and other titles as well.

At the end of the day, it will be it's own flavor of theme park style MMO, and as the OP pointed out, atm there's no plan to permit you to even see enemy players in PVE zones, much less attack them. (at least while leveling, perhaps the end game operates a bit differently, I haven't been following it much)

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/30/13 7:01:11 AM#65
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess.

They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design.

But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.

There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be.

IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.

I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fitted in the same game.

Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

THAT was a wrong decision...

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5444

4/30/13 7:04:41 AM#66
Originally posted by pantheron
ive seen so few people happy about this game, I wonder how its going to succeed. not just here. nowhere look do i see that many people happy/excited for this game. maybe its just me and who I'm around/where I frequent. I hear like 1 to 3 vocal defenders of the game, and more often than not a bunch of people not happy about its direction. this is in real life as well. 

Because forums do not represent general gamer population, the forums are where game enthusiasts go, your average casual gamer doesn't live on the forums.

TES will probably do fine, not great mind you but fine. 

 

 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3468

4/30/13 7:08:13 AM#67
As it should be. Glad to see they are sticking to the core design. 
  spankybus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 1164

"Don''t touch that squirrel''s nuts!" - Willy Wonka

4/30/13 7:08:59 AM#68
Originally posted by Horusra
no desire to see a high level running around in my low or mid level zone from an other faction.  Seeing them do stupid emotes or jumping around acting the fool.

Or just one-hit killing the mobs I need for quests...just to piss me off because their life in an empty prison of loserdome.

That said, not sure if I mind. But then I have been looking at this game as TES with Co-Op play with PVP end-game. However, it would be nice if they did include a PVP server where you can see and engage each other....or I guess a setting on the mega server that would allow this. Don't see why you should provide as many different gameplay avenues to as many different potential players as possible.

 

the last company who was this  daft at ignoring their fan base and shoveling their narrow idea of gameplay down their throat was square Enix with the initial release of Final Fantasy 14....yea, that went well.

Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1297

4/30/13 7:10:36 AM#69
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess.

They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design.

But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.

There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be.

IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.

I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fit in the same game.

Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

THAT was a wrong decision...

I disagree.

Take those 7 million TES players, 80% of those players are console players. So right of the bat they are choosing not to please the core of the fanbase.

There are a lot more MMO players than TES PC players. So when deciding to enter the MMO world do you decide to please a small miniority of the TES fans interested in playing an MMO or do you try pleasing the much larger MMO audience.

I understand that TES did get popular for it's exploration. However it's PvE is below average. Seeing as most MMO PvE is even worse I do not have high hopes for TES if they decide to make the game PvE-centric.

I have the single player games for my PvE.

The most sensible thing for Bethesda to do with the SP franchise is add co-op to it's next release. Seeing as it's a console franchise now it will sell like hot cakes and please the core TES fans more than ANY MMO version of TES will.

  Sulaa

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 897

4/30/13 7:14:41 AM#70
This mega-server thing and phasing is really a turn off. Well other features and design choices also don't appeal to me. Ehh The Elder Scrolls Online title/name sound great but it seems I won't be playing it since it's totally not what I expect.  Good that I know this before hand though, it will save me being disappointed and spending money on it.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10640

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/30/13 7:25:03 AM#71


Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by baphamet funny how people pretend they just found out about this just so they can have an excuse to rage. it really does suck for people that were so misinformed to actually believe this would be a sandbox or an open pvp game.
Bad ideas are still bad even if you don't know about them yet.
Funny how people assume something is a bad idea because they don't like it.  
How else would you classify an idea you don't like other then bad?



I would classify them as ideas I don't like.

I'm not sure I like the idea of no PvP in max level zones. That seems weird to me because in all the MMOs I've played, even on PvE servers walking around in enemy territory carried with it the possibility of PvP.

If the bulk of the people playing the game get to the max level areas and it never occurs to them to miss the possibility of PvP, and they think that playing the game is a lot like playing the single player games and that's good, then it's a good idea, regardless of what I think about it.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3305

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

4/30/13 7:28:15 AM#72


Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by Maelwydd Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess. They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design. But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.
There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be. IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.
I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already. Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation! So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way. On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fit in the same game. Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP. THAT was a wrong decision...
I disagree.

Take those 7 million TES players, 80% of those players are console players. So right of the bat they are choosing not to please the core of the fanbase.

There are a lot more MMO players than TES PC players. So when deciding to enter the MMO world do you decide to please a small miniority of the TES fans interested in playing an MMO or do you try pleasing the much larger MMO audience.

I understand that TES did get popular for it's exploration. However it's PvE is below average. Seeing as most MMO PvE is even worse I do not have high hopes for TES if they decide to make the game PvE-centric.

I have the single player games for my PvE.

The most sensible thing for Bethesda to do with the SP franchise is add co-op to it's next release. Seeing as it's a console franchise now it will sell like hot cakes and please the core TES fans more than ANY MMO version of TES will.


In able to respond appropriately to your comment, I need you to link the relevant platform data...


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1297

4/30/13 7:32:07 AM#73
Originally posted by Nitth

 

In able to respond appropriately to your comment, I need you to link the relevant platform data...

http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/

The data is nearly a year old.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2636

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/30/13 7:38:30 AM#74
Can't wait to play this, thanks for the link to all the juicey info.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1161

4/30/13 7:44:37 AM#75
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fitted in the same game.

Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

THAT was a wrong decision...

Yeah that is what I ment when I refered to using DAOC as their base design. All the race locking, land locking, lack of exploration etc... all stems from them making the wrong descision because it prevents some of the most important features of what made the TES games so popular.

Inherently the DOAC of model is fine (faction locks etc..), it is just the wrong model for TES.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3468

4/30/13 7:54:04 AM#76
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fitted in the same game.

Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

THAT was a wrong decision...

Yeah that is what I ment when I refered to using DAOC as their base design. All the race locking, land locking, lack of exploration etc... all stems from them making the wrong descision because it prevents some of the most important features of what made the TES games so popular.

Inherently the DOAC of model is fine (faction locks etc..), it is just the wrong model for TES.

IMO this is way off base for one reasons. Most MMOs need some type of PvP and you only have a few options. Open world PvP everywhere like Linage 2, battle grounds like WoW or DAoC 3 faction PvP. There are lots of the first two and a lot of gamers are sick to death of the respin of the WoW model. So whats left to pick? A model that has done very well and rarely used, DAoC model. This brings something to ESO that is really needed to be a real TES game. Freedom to explore and not get attacked by players as you do so. TES was about PvE and having a player attack you when being the hero of the story would feel very unlike TES. The DAoC model is the only PvP model that gives the PURE PvE players their space but still gives PvP fans an outlet and makes ESO an option for PvPers as well. Of the options, they picked the best one for fitting TES and the best option for MMO fans as its not been done to death. Pls not another WoW clone.

  Fdzzaigl

Elite Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2094

4/30/13 7:57:06 AM#77

That really sucks.

It doesn't even make sense imo, what will the story be when you're in another alliance's zone then? You magically become part of their faction except you don't see their dudes?

They'd better just throw everyone in a megafaction when out PvEing only to seperate them while PvPing then. Or just have PvE / PvP servers.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 8:00:50 AM#78
No that would lead to very shit "pvp" dominated by cross faction guilds that just keep trade and kill trade their way to "epicness" - see rift and tsw.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 8:08:15 AM#79
Daoc had 3 server types

Only one of them had "evil faction lock"

The mega server isn't really like any of them, not even the core 3 faction servers, as that didn't have wish wash nonsense like questing in "friends" campaigns, transferring to a different campaign, reseting every few months and the pve was directly tied to the pvp, no escaping into a pve shard where your realm is dominating pvp.

Mega server is a major cock up, it paints them into a corner, the only bonus to it is spinning server merges. The negatives far out way the positives, loss of server community, no alternate rule set servers, breaking the link between pvp / pve on the factional servers, letting people hop around al over the place (no doubt after ninjaing loot etc..)
  ReeseFlamelocks

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/10
Posts: 42

4/30/13 8:10:12 AM#80
It does kind of make sense that the two groups would not see each other. If it's a PvE area and you are not allowed to PvP, then the two groups would just stare at each other and wonder stupidly why they aren't allowed to attack each other. They would need to justify the peace somehow using divine intervention or via a treaty arrangement in the context of the situation. That would probably be too much of a headache.

Played: UO, DAoC, Shadowbane, DDO, LOTRO, Aion, Rift, TERA
Sampled: WoW, AoC, GW2, Vanguard, FF XIV, Neverwinter
Playing: ESO

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