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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Is All PVP Still Restricted To Cyrodiil? If It Is Im Not Buying This Game

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165 posts found
  SirBalin

Warmonger

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1082

5/19/13 5:29:42 PM#161
Originally posted by Saxonblade
Originally posted by superconducting

Open world PVP sounds good on paper but in practice is a bad idea. There are a whole host of problems associated with it:

- PVP would be way too scattered and less focused. Small groups or individual players would be haphazardly fighting rather than having larger-scale battles between armies.

- People would not easily know where to go to join up with their groups.

- PVE content (which is most of the game) would not be safe to do. You could never feel safe questing.

- It would be a lore-breaker (at least initially before 50+) if factions are not restricted to the races the comprise them.

 

I remember when runescape decided to open up the whole world to PVP, instead of just limiting it to the wilderness. The amount of backlash they received was mind-numbing. PvP was ruined so much that they eventually they restored the wilderness to the way it was before.

Tell the people at blizz that, it was in fact the removal of meaningful OW PVP that cost blizz many subs. OW PvP in Vanilla WoW was some of the best OW PvP in any game.

Blizzard even conceded this in an interview about 2 years ago.  While they are happy with what the game has become obviously, the CEO openly stated if there was one thing he could go back and do differently, it would be how they implemented certain things which killed owpvp.  The posted that talked about owpvp not working is a total tard...he may not like it and thats fine...but owpvp obviously has merit to many.

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  Akerbeltz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 154

5/22/13 9:06:45 AM#162

 

Good ole vanilla WOW...different times...different people. My old guild used Menethil Harbour as our home base and protected the surrounding area.

I think we all know that the 400,000,000 people worldwide who play MMOs today (yeah it surprised me too: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/15/mmo-infographic/ ) are not the same tight, dedicated hobbyist  community that used to play in 2004.

Those who think that the systems that used to work 10 years ago simply because we wanted to make them work and we policed them ourselves can still work today are dreaming.

This segregated PvE/PvP approach like DAoC used to have, GW2 used last year and ESO is using now is the best system that can be used considering the general behavior of players in 2013. Even Cyrodiil in ESO won't be nearly as well-behaved and cooperative as the frontiers were in DAoC back then.

A lot of people these days just love to "game" the game with cheats and exploits and griefing the "gimp" is something some PvP guilds dedicate themselves to... complete with Youtube instructions on how to do it.

Developers these days have to take a more hands-on approach to design. They need to spend a lot more time thinking about what they can do to try to prevent asshats from ruining it too much for everyone else.

PvEing in a griefing-free zone is about as close to open world PvP as they can come in an MMO in 2013 if they hope the game will have wide appeal. Games like DF-Unholy Wars are just retro niche games that appeal to a small portion of the population. Heck, even the PvE portion of Cyrodiil here has some PvErs already worried because their experience of open world PvP is WOW 2013 not WOW 2004.

As depressing as it sounds, what you say in your post rings true.

 

OWPvP is a must in a Role Playing Game: it makes the virtual world believable and opens up a lot of possibilities for metagame. Although people may solely associate it with combat, OWPvP provides with options for clan politics, faction treasons, counter-espionage, trading routes protected by mercenaries, bounty-hunting... That is, OWPvP puts the base for the only viable form of "endgame" in a MMORPG. Of course, to guarantee OWPvP is gonna work there must a solid consequences system (UO put great foundations for this).

 

Problem is what you say in your post, which is quite sad... I remember back in the day players approached MMORPGs with a Role Playing mentality: they wanted to develop their characters and build up a legacy in the virtual world, and they wanted this virtual world to make it work. There was a sense of community, every player had a reputation, and if you behaved like a ADHD ridden asshat the best you could expect was a wall of silence and the Ban-hammer.

 

We all know what happened next: Post BC-WoW, catering to the lowest common denominator among gamers for the sake of a quick buck. Suddenly we had macros, cheats, PVE and PVP segregation, unworthy crafting, auction houses, LFGs, soloers... and taking more and more distance from the RPG essence to become mindless monster-slashing arcades, a collection of battlegrounds and a scripted personal story in which the game is gonna tell you you're the hero and the savior (as anybody else). And a chat.

 

Yeah, I think this genre is pretty dead. It has lost it, completely lost it. I think the only hope RPers may have is among indie companies that look after a niche, mature public who know what they want.

 

Another thing: Call me a lunatic, but I think the only way to guarantee that your RP-gaming experience is not ruined by professional grievers and cheaters is through some identification system that requires your National Identification Number, Driving License Number or something to play. And if you screw it, you'll be perma-banned for good. Yeah, it'd be a pretty intrusive system but you know, intrusion is what happens when people don't exercise their liberty in a responsible way.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  eiekal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 20

5/22/13 10:24:37 AM#163

(opps, I just realized this is the main thread. Reposting here.)

I'm an old school pvper going back to the mudding pvp days like many (or few) of you. To us these "newer" mmo's are carebear because you dont lose all your gear when you die. Griefing is no problem because you lose nothing. Skirmish fighting is fun as hell in world pvp. Anticipating being jumped is the very excitement I look for and this feeling only comes from a online game where other players can attack you unaware.

I havent had a chance to research the pvp in this game but I keep looking for a game with collision detection (which I love even with its downsides), and where movement and positional attacks mean something and give an advantage. I've tried the latest GW2 and the older darkfalls and they punish circle strafers by slowing strafe speed. I might as well take off my strafe keys on my keyboard. I hope this game turns out to have collision detection and reward movement and positional attacks other than just a rogue class. Don't slow strafe speed, Slow stationary rotation speed so everyone will have to use movement and their strafe keys.

My 2 cents is I would like to have had world pvp. Alot of pvpers are searching hard for a great pvp game. Can't pve'ers get their pve fix by playing wow? It has pve and raids, what more can a pve'er ask for :p

 

Edit: After a mod questioned my post, I'd like to say, for clarity, that my post is directed to the op.  This should satisfy the moderators thoughts in that I should read the other 161 posts.

  DrDwarf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 502

5/23/13 4:19:26 PM#164

In an mmorpg, you should never feel safe whilst questing.  

There is a war on you know.  

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4295

5/23/13 9:49:25 PM#165
Originally posted by DrDwarf

In an mmorpg, you should never feel safe whilst questing.  

There is a war on you know.  

yea they should implement some sort of spying/sabotage mission system similar to age of wushu to have some PvP outside of Cyrodil in the open world.

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