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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Who Thinks This Game Is Gonna Fail? It Will Be Dead Within 5-7 Years

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128 posts found
  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1604

4/25/13 10:17:03 AM#41

The game will sell enough boxes to make up development cost and than some and enough subs to make it Zenimax's most profitable project to date.  Even if it shuts down after 1-2 years I really doubt any of the suits will consider it a failure even if the fan base does.

Success and Failure is all in the eyes of the beholder.

  Akerbeltz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 151

4/25/13 10:47:58 AM#42
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Aker
Lol at "it will last 1-3 months"

Look at swtor, its rubbish but its still running after 18 months.

 

Mo:

 

If you're going to "lol", do it at the whole statement . I think I made abundantly clear in my post that I referred to longevity in terms of "worthy content", before it gets iterative. I repeat: due to the design model they've chosen for this game, there's not going to be any posibility for long-run meta-game (this is the one that is created/managed by the players themselves, ala EVE or SWG).

 

You make it sound like if SWTOR was a success-story when it failed miserabily in meeting its expectations. In fact, it basically flopped after 2 months -I was there, I saw it, I myself quitted after 2 months of the dumbest, lamest MMORPG-abomination experience I've ever have the displeasure of having - I wouldn't have lasted even a week if not for my rp guild.

 

Well, to be totally fair, one thing that SWTOR taught me is the true motivations of people who stick for a long time in linear, lame themeparks: Compulsive Behaviour, Anxiety and plain Addiction.

 

Not jesting man, I came accross these polish guys (the nationality is irrelevant btw) for some Heroics and HC Flashpoints. They proposed me to take my gear off (I mean, my character's...) and then run like crazy trying to tackle all the mobs, taking advantage of all the glitches, until the first boss -obviously, the idea was to not to expend a fortune in repairs. Then, after the boss was cleared, rinse and repeat with the next. And then, rinse and repeat with the whole Heroic/Flashpoint again. Objective of this nonsense: to earn maximum credits and badgets in minimum time...

 

Some may call that fun, I call it mental disorder (with all due respect for people with mental disorders, these guys don't make them honour). Of course, I decided to stop playing pure themeparks from then on.

 

PD: Sorry about digressing from the topic so much, boring afternoon at work ;)

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/25/13 10:51:23 AM#43
Yeah but unlike most of these recent themeparks, TESO has a feature that will provide meta game.

Unfortunately its the one feature everyone is Moaning about.
  Akerbeltz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 151

4/25/13 11:00:17 AM#44

Mo,

 

I guess you're talking about the PvP feature in Cyrodiil. To be honest with you, I wouldn't consider it as metagame as:

 

1) It is going to be 100% combat centric.

2) It is separated from the rest of the world. In fact, I'd say Cydoriil is nothing more than a glorified battleground.

3) Players don't influence politics or economy, possibly the 2 most important driving factors for any war.

 

Don't take it badly please, it is my educated opinion based on the game-features that have already been announced.

 

I've been loving TES since Daggerfall and would very much like to be wrong in my opinion. Don't think so though...

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

4/25/13 11:05:25 AM#45
Honestly unless they hit the nail on the head I wouldn't give it more than 5 years.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3397

4/25/13 11:12:30 AM#46
Originally posted by Akerbeltz

Mo,

 

I guess you're talking about the PvP feature in Cyrodiil. To be honest with you, I wouldn't consider it as metagame as:

 

1) It is going to be 100% combat centric.

2) It is separated from the rest of the world. In fact, I'd say Cydoriil is nothing more than a glorified battleground.

3) Players don't influence politics or economy, possibly the 2 most important driving factors for any war.

 

Don't take it badly please, it is my educated opinion based on the game-features that have already been announced.

 

I've been loving TES since Daggerfall and would very much like to be wrong in my opinion. Don't think so though...

You have not read much about gear and the crafting system yet have you? 

  Sinaku

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 462

4/25/13 11:15:37 AM#47

With a name like Elder Scrolls it doesn't really matter how bad it will be as long as it isn't any worse than SWTOR it will be a successful MMO in terms of $$$$

  DAS1337

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2378

4/25/13 11:18:38 AM#48
Originally posted by Imperator101

I wish they made this game with the same game engine used in Skyrim along with improved graphics, the gameplay would be a lot better. 

All PVP is being restricted to Cyrodiil, this is why I don't wanna buy this game. I enjoy an MMO that has world pvp all over the world, not restricted to one region within the world. I enjoy pvp in a variety of envionrments, Tamriel is all grasslands/forests along with some snowey areas near Bruma. I hate a MMO which gives me restrictions on where I can do PVP. 

So they are still sticking with this stupid concept? All PVP limited to Cyrodiil? 

5-7 years is a great run for a MMO.  Definitely going to be profitable for everyone involved.  Your only gripe is about PvP?  What is with everyone and PvP?  It's a cheap thrill.  Every game has PvP, why not focus on something different?  Is PvP in TESO really going to keep you coming back?

 

Jeez.. most gamers just have no idea what is good for them..

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1604

4/25/13 12:21:56 PM#49
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by Imperator101

I wish they made this game with the same game engine used in Skyrim along with improved graphics, the gameplay would be a lot better. 

All PVP is being restricted to Cyrodiil, this is why I don't wanna buy this game. I enjoy an MMO that has world pvp all over the world, not restricted to one region within the world. I enjoy pvp in a variety of envionrments, Tamriel is all grasslands/forests along with some snowey areas near Bruma. I hate a MMO which gives me restrictions on where I can do PVP. 

So they are still sticking with this stupid concept? All PVP limited to Cyrodiil? 

5-7 years is a great run for a MMO.  Definitely going to be profitable for everyone involved.  Your only gripe is about PvP?  What is with everyone and PvP?  It's a cheap thrill.  Every game has PvP, why not focus on something different?  Is PvP in TESO really going to keep you coming back?

 

Jeez.. most gamers just have no idea what is good for them..

It really depends on what compromises that have to be made to the rest of the game systems to make PVP work.  PVP will affect the way the PVE game works, it already has impacted many of the design decisions that have been made and it will futher impact tunning decisions down the road as the game progresses though beta.  

It remains to be seen if those changes are a net positive or negative to PVE only players but you can't deny they don't exist.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/25/13 12:24:20 PM#50
There's the rub.

Half the people against what they are doing with pvp want a totally pve game

The other half want a ffa pvp everywhere game.

They went with a commercial decision to annoy the least amount of players.
  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

4/25/13 12:29:43 PM#51
Originally posted by ShakyMo
There's the rub.

Half the people against what they are doing with pvp want a totally pve game

The other half want a ffa pvp everywhere game.

They went with a commercial decision to annoy the least amount of players.

This is exactly why I think that Elder Scrolls was a poor choice to make into an MMO. There are way too many expectations and the Dev's will not be able to please the Fans. I think there were better games out there that they could have introduced into the MMORPG genre.

Anytime you take a fan favorite and decide to change something to it the tide is already against you unless you can pull some serious magic out of your backside.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3397

4/25/13 12:34:09 PM#52
Originally posted by Wakygreek
Originally posted by ShakyMo
There's the rub.

Half the people against what they are doing with pvp want a totally pve game

The other half want a ffa pvp everywhere game.

They went with a commercial decision to annoy the least amount of players.

This is exactly why I think that Elder Scrolls was a poor choice to make into an MMO. There are way too many expectations and the Dev's will not be able to please the Fans. I think there were better options out there to make into MMO's.

Ya any IP you pick you gona get  expectations and fan rage. When making a IP into a MMO you have to dance between the IP fans and also making sure MMOers are happy as well. Its a fine line to walk. With CU needing 600'000 in 6 days I wonder if ESO is going to net more DAoC MMO fans.

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6654

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

4/25/13 12:36:32 PM#53
Dead within a year and a half considering how much worse mmos survived a lot longer.
  Akerbeltz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 151

4/25/13 12:46:00 PM#54
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Akerbeltz

Mo,

 

I guess you're talking about the PvP feature in Cyrodiil. To be honest with you, I wouldn't consider it as metagame as:

 

1) It is going to be 100% combat centric.

2) It is separated from the rest of the world. In fact, I'd say Cydoriil is nothing more than a glorified battleground.

3) Players don't influence politics or economy, possibly the 2 most important driving factors for any war.

 

Don't take it badly please, it is my educated opinion based on the game-features that have already been announced.

 

I've been loving TES since Daggerfall and would very much like to be wrong in my opinion. Don't think so though...

You have not read much about gear and the crafting system yet have you? 

 

Perhaps you know something that the rest of us don't... So the players, through "gear and the crafting system",  are going to be able to affect frontiers, create rogue factions, have workshops a/o vendors with exclusive player-created items, etc, etc? *ahem* (btw, all these features are present in other games, no sci-fi talk here).

 

Anyway...

 

Before replying, I've been surfing for a while, looking for "gear and crafting" related info and its apparent influence on politics a/o economy, in case I had missed something you know. I'm sorry but I haven't found anything in that regard. What I do have read (again) is this article with Paul Sage on "Elder Scrolls Online's endgame, PvP and crafting":

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

 

In essence, I don't find anything substancially different from what an MMO like SWTOR (now that's been mentioned already) proposed, much less anything that could indicate that players are gonna influence politics or economy (and when I say economy, I mean REAL economy, not a minigame (crafting) and some golden-items gambling in an "Auction House", heh) or that this game's foundations can provide substancial meta-game in any way, shape or form.

 

What I see is talk about "endgame", a concept that belongs to the realm of the extreme themeparkish - and which is usually based on obsessive-compulsive behaviour over iterative activities, as my experience with "no-lifers in a themepark" has shown me.

 

In any case, my personal and non-transferable opinion.

 

(But please, for the sake of your mental health you may want to consider my advice: know when to stop after you've cleared that dungeon or instance in the "adventure zones" for the gazillionth time or your pal's been crowned emperor for the 9^67 time...).

 

EDIT: typos

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 878

4/25/13 12:46:14 PM#55

I think ESO will do just fine nothing crazy but fine like LOTRO etc.

I doubt it goes the path of SWTOR.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

4/25/13 12:48:56 PM#56
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Wakygreek
Originally posted by ShakyMo
There's the rub.

Half the people against what they are doing with pvp want a totally pve game

The other half want a ffa pvp everywhere game.

They went with a commercial decision to annoy the least amount of players.

This is exactly why I think that Elder Scrolls was a poor choice to make into an MMO. There are way too many expectations and the Dev's will not be able to please the Fans. I think there were better options out there to make into MMO's.

Ya any IP you pick you gona get  expectations and fan rage. When making a IP into a MMO you have to dance between the IP fans and also making sure MMOers are happy as well. Its a fine line to walk. With CU needing 600'000 in 6 days I wonder if ESO is going to net more DAoC MMO fans.

Yeah I agree with you, however certain games are worse then others. I think that this franchise should have been left alone because of its giant following. You could say just the opposite of course, however if they mess up then they could indirectly damage the franchise instead of raking in the big bucks. I kinda feel the same way with WOD however I am willing to wait and see what happens.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2633

110100100

4/25/13 12:55:37 PM#57


Originally posted by Punk999
I think ESO will do just fine nothing crazy but fine like LOTRO etc.

I doubt it goes the path of SWTOR.


even SWTOR is doing just fine after it went F2P

there will likely be a max exodus of players after the first couple of months similar to SWTOR but it will be left with a solid decently sized player base.

also, while that is going on, the server will always look and feel packed.


  Akerbeltz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 151

4/25/13 1:08:54 PM#58
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Wakygreek

This is exactly why I think that Elder Scrolls was a poor choice to make into an MMO. There are way too many expectations and the Dev's will not be able to please the Fans. I think there were better options out there to make into MMO's.

Ya any IP you pick you gona get  expectations and fan rage. When making a IP into a MMO you have to dance between the IP fans and also making sure MMOers are happy as well. Its a fine line to walk. With CU needing 600'000 in 6 days I wonder if ESO is going to net more DAoC MMO fans.

 

Not my intention to pick on you but I think your arguments are rather flawed.

 

First, it's not as simplye as  "trying to look for a compromise between 'IP fans' and 'MMOers'", as:

 

- Although the MMO genre was rooted in the RPG tabletop systems when it was born, nowadays has been diversified: you have more arcade-ish, story driven mmos, sandbox oriented mmos, action based mmos, even you have a scarlet blade mmo (he he he). To put all the possible target audiences for these mmo models under one label is myopia and a gross reductiosm, to put it mildly.

 

- 'TES IP fans' also play MMOs, maybe not all of them but many, many do. IP fans and MMOers are not separate entities.

 

 

Secondly, "investors" and "purchasers of a finished product" are different things, ergo, number of CU investors is not the best indicator to measure a certain audience following to whatever game. People are much more reluctant to play as an investor than as a purchaser.

 

Green Regards :)

 

 

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3397

4/25/13 1:12:18 PM#59
Originally posted by Akerbeltz
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Akerbeltz

Mo,

 

I guess you're talking about the PvP feature in Cyrodiil. To be honest with you, I wouldn't consider it as metagame as:

 

1) It is going to be 100% combat centric.

2) It is separated from the rest of the world. In fact, I'd say Cydoriil is nothing more than a glorified battleground.

3) Players don't influence politics or economy, possibly the 2 most important driving factors for any war.

 

Don't take it badly please, it is my educated opinion based on the game-features that have already been announced.

 

I've been loving TES since Daggerfall and would very much like to be wrong in my opinion. Don't think so though...

You have not read much about gear and the crafting system yet have you? 

 

Perhaps you know something that the rest of us don't... So the players, through "gear and the crafting system",  are going to be able to affect frontiers, create rogue factions, have workshops a/o vendors with exclusive player-created items, etc, etc? *ahem* (btw, all these features are present in other games, no sci-fi talk here).

 

Anyway...

 

Before replying, I've been surfing for a while, looking for "gear and crafting" related info and its apparent influence on politics a/o economy, in case I had missed something you know. I'm sorry but I haven't found anything in that regard. What I do have read (again) is this article with Paul Sage on "Elder Scrolls Online's endgame, PvP and crafting":

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

 

In essence, I don't find anything substancially different from what an MMO like SWTOR (now that's been mentioned already) proposed, much less anything that could indicate that players are gonna influence politics or economy (and when I say economy, I mean REAL economy, not a minigame (crafting) and some golden-items gambling in an "Auction House", heh) or that this game's foundations can provide substancial meta-game in any way, shape or form.

 

What I see is talk about "endgame", a concept that belongs to the realm of the extreme themeparkish - and which is usually based on obsessive-compulsive behaviour over iterative activities, as my experience with "no-lifers in a themepark" has shown me.

 

In any case, my personal and non-transferable opinion.

 

(But please, for the sake of your mental health you may want to consider my advice: know when to stop after you've cleared that dungeon or instance in the "adventure zones" for the gazillionth time or your pal's been crowned emperor for the 9^67 time...).

 

EDIT: typos

I did not say anything about politics, I said crafting system. Crafters will have best in slot for some items and for all other slots players can make gear better with crafting. The devs have said very clearly they want ESO to have a rich system for crafters and if done right should make a very rich player driven economy. Also there is no PvP gear, gear is gear. This also strongly hints to less WoW treadmill and more towards DAoC gear system but that is just an educated guess by whats been said and who the devs are.

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1591

4/25/13 1:13:37 PM#60
Originally posted by Arakazi
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Aker
Lol at "it will last 1-3 months"

Look at swtor, its rubbish but its still running after 18 months.

Look at vanguard, the game was a complete debacle and it's still running even after all those years.

quality of the state is also important, you can keep a comatoze patient alive for ages, but what's the quality of it?

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

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