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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » 10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too

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430 posts found
  Laromuss

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 332

4/20/13 7:35:16 PM#81
I think one thing to keep in mind is if you've been on a dev team a game gets created at least 3 times over and will change at least 3 times over the development cycle.  What you see at pax, etc with their demo won't be their final and is tailored just for that event.
  Slampig

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2428

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

4/20/13 7:45:11 PM#82
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

What I have seen on this forum is far from constructive feedback. Its been on the level of hate that is down right sad. They have made a concession but to please the mob mentality of this forum it would be no small task. You can label it as giving just your opinion and that is what some do but there is a vast number of people here who attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about the game thats not in line with the small mob thats grown here.

I hope the devs dont cave in at this point thinking this is the general status quo on ESO fans. Its mostly a MMOrpg.com theme thats is in almost every forum now. Hate is in, and we call it feedback. We hate before even get gameplay footage. We hate and tell devs how to make the game and whats wrong with it before we even play it. No wonder new games dont tell us they are even making a game till they are 3-4 years into development. 

We kick and bite at every design choice the devs make and as always, most people who like it dont post much past awesome I cant wait to play. So the devs mostly see the angery mob and start questioning if they should change their development path. Often games over the years has done just this and we gamers play a large part in why we are getting more and more crappy games. Developers no long just have fans, they have mobs that think they know better about game development then they and we create negitive feedback till they see it our way. Or else we will post something negitive in every thread and news outlet about the game. We drive away people thinking maybe our negitive thinking maybe true and often drive off new fans before any real reason is valid to do so. We dont have a product in had to be upset about.

Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game? 

But thats not what we talk about. We pick and pick at one point and make a storm on why its so bad till its changed. Then we pick a different point and do the same thing till all thats left is a shell of a game that was its original design. It becomes so messed up that when its finaly released we all say... see this game does suck but we are in a large part to blame. I hope the ESO devs keep the corse and not even bother coming to look at what the so called fans have to say here. 

I don't hate. I am actually looking forward to getting some hands on with this game. I am not crying because it isn't Skyrim online. The game is what the game is. I am fine with that.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

4/20/13 7:50:24 PM#83

Threads like these make me hurl.

They only exist to antagonize portions of the forum.

Are the mods sleeping this one out?

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1409

4/20/13 7:55:29 PM#84

Welcome to MMORPG.com.

Forums and MMO-gaming site that i've lost faith in since 2004 (yeah, we all know what that year brought into the MMO community, that used to be one of the better communities over the internet)

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Gardavsshade

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 737

4/20/13 7:59:51 PM#85
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

The Devs of TESO are making a MMO, not a MMO according to OUR definition, but a MMO as defined by Stock Holders, Accountants, and Wall Street Speckulators. It is also the definition used by MOST People that have heard of MMOs, and especially the People that bought WOW and LOTRO and SWTOR and RIFT and played it just because it was cool or because their Dad played it or their Neighbor.

TESO won't be a MMO according to another definition of MMO... as defined by old school and hard core MMO Players that want the best.

No, TESO *IS* a MMO, according to MOST people's definition. That's the problem and noone can fault the Devs for that. That falls on the Stock Holders and Investors. The Masses. "Tab target, WOW clone bullshit" *IS* what a MMO *IS*. Now.

I ain't happy with this, but as my real life Son, an Accountant, would say.... "We don't matter. Just the Numbers". This applies to all of real life, not just MMOs, and there lies the real danger.

We can complain all we want. It won't matter now. We are heading for the bottom of the Sine Wave. Grab a hold of something.

 

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

4/20/13 8:50:44 PM#86
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

What I have seen on this forum is far from constructive feedback. Its been on the level of hate that is down right sad. They have made a concession but to please the mob mentality of this forum it would be no small task. You can label it as giving just your opinion and that is what some do but there is a vast number of people here who attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about the game thats not in line with the small mob thats grown here.

I hope the devs dont cave in at this point thinking this is the general status quo on ESO fans. Its mostly a MMOrpg.com theme thats is in almost every forum now. Hate is in, and we call it feedback. We hate before even get gameplay footage. We hate and tell devs how to make the game and whats wrong with it before we even play it. No wonder new games dont tell us they are even making a game till they are 3-4 years into development. 

We kick and bite at every design choice the devs make and as always, most people who like it dont post much past awesome I cant wait to play. So the devs mostly see the angery mob and start questioning if they should change their development path. Often games over the years has done just this and we gamers play a large part in why we are getting more and more crappy games. Developers no long just have fans, they have mobs that think they know better about game development then they and we create negitive feedback till they see it our way. Or else we will post something negitive in every thread and news outlet about the game. We drive away people thinking maybe our negitive thinking maybe true and often drive off new fans before any real reason is valid to do so. We dont have a product in had to be upset about.

Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game? 

But thats not what we talk about. We pick and pick at one point and make a storm on why its so bad till its changed. Then we pick a different point and do the same thing till all thats left is a shell of a game that was its original design. It becomes so messed up that when its finaly released we all say... see this game does suck but we are in a large part to blame. I hope the ESO devs keep the corse and not even bother coming to look at what the so called fans have to say here. 

 Put yourself in the position that many MMO advocates have experienced. These past X (8 in my opinion) years have been quite a let down in the MMO market. There aren't any shining gems that have risen to meet the expectations of their customers; only games that are mediocre and slightly approved. The majority are simply riding on the coat tails of the generic MMO (World of Warcraft clones). Most advocates of MMO's are able to understand how good/bad a MMO will become just by listening to the features a game has.

 When I listen to podcasts, forum posts, or major articles. I'm looking and listening for key features that'll keep me intrigued with a product. Features that developers state that I stay away from are: Cutting out the grind, quick teleportation to speed up gameplay, auction houses, and we have plenty of endgame. When I hear this I already gauge that the game's already catered towards the casual consumer. I absolutely don't want to hear, "we have plenty in store for endgame" because when I get to the end of the game I've won and that means there's no more content for me to experience.

 A game like ESO does several things that irritates its fans (myself included). They take such an expansive franchise and they alter it to the point that major fans can no longer even recognized. When someone thinks of a ES experience they think of an epic world where anything can be done. Where you were not limited to specific classes and you can do virtually whatever you please. ESO does none of this, you're limited by class, professions, and the lore has been twisted so they can warp it around this game. This is a game that has already disappointed the majority of the fan-base before it has even shipped.

If a company has the majority of their potential customers making complaints about core aspects of their game. I believe that's a hint to take it back to the draw board and find a way to fix it. Their customers are telling them exactly what they want fixed or how they imagined the game. It's their choice to listen to it or not. However, I personally believe it's bad business practice not listening to your customer. For example ES is known for the first person POV why would you stray away from that view point?

 I don't see companies keeping their products as secretive as they have in the past. I personally believe they're opening up their products to the public more now than ever before. They're allowing their potential customer(s) QA test the game before it even hits the shelves (which could potentially be a bad thing). I also believe that if you're hiding everything from your customers until the last minute you're probably hiding something terrible that  you don't want to be leaked (Many broken aspects of SWTOR).

 

 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1125

4/20/13 8:57:07 PM#87
If this game takes the road of EQ2, LOTRO, GW2, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, etc. how can a TES fan be happy with that? Log into any one of those games, and tell me how the population is. And all but one is free!!! Pathetically eenough, thta is probably the most popular one!!
  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

4/20/13 8:58:23 PM#88
Originally posted by Laross
I think one thing to keep in mind is if you've been on a dev team a game gets created at least 3 times over and will change at least 3 times over the development cycle.  What you see at pax, etc with their demo won't be their final and is tailored just for that event.

Damn, if this were true and everything was equal (ie: it isn't - some betas look better than other products' final versions), I guess Warhammer and LOTRO must have been really really ugly at one point.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

4/20/13 8:59:22 PM#89
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

The Devs of TESO are making a MMO, not a MMO according to OUR definition, but a MMO as defined by Stock Holders, Accountants, and Wall Street Speckulators. It is also the definition used by MOST People that have heard of MMOs, and especially the People that bought WOW and LOTRO and SWTOR and RIFT and played it just because it was cool or because their Dad played it or their Neighbor.

TESO won't be a MMO according to another definition of MMO... as defined by old school and hard core MMO Players that want the best.

No, TESO *IS* a MMO, according to MOST people's definition. That's the problem and noone can fault the Devs for that. That falls on the Stock Holders and Investors. The Masses. "Tab target, WOW clone bullshit" *IS* what a MMO *IS*. Now.

I ain't happy with this, but as my real life Son, an Accountant, would say.... "We don't matter. Just the Numbers". This applies to all of real life, not just MMOs, and there lies the real danger.

We can complain all we want. It won't matter now. We are heading for the bottom of the Sine Wave. Grab a hold of something.

 

 The fad of new MMOs will eventually pass by and people will move on. Then and only then will we be able to get back on track with our MMOs. We will just have to ride the wave and hold out.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

4/20/13 9:00:42 PM#90
Originally posted by Golelorn
If this game takes the road of EQ2, LOTRO, GW2, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, etc. how can a TES fan be happy with that? Log into any one of those games, and tell me how the population is. And all but one is free!!! Pathetically eenough, thta is probably the most popular one!!

Really?  Which one is that?  Because I count 2 games there that require purchases.  Did Rift go F2P when I wasn't looking?

Also... er.. most of those games still have quite a few people playing, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

4/20/13 9:04:39 PM#91
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Golelorn
If this game takes the road of EQ2, LOTRO, GW2, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, etc. how can a TES fan be happy with that? Log into any one of those games, and tell me how the population is. And all but one is free!!! Pathetically eenough, thta is probably the most popular one!!

Really?  Which one is that?  Because I count 2 games there that require purchases.  Did Rift go F2P when I wasn't looking?

Also... er.. most of those games still have quite a few people playing, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 Actually EQ2 and LOTRO require purchasing expansions and subscriptions to enjoy the later portions of content.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4707

GW2 socialist.

4/20/13 9:06:27 PM#92
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Golelorn
If this game takes the road of EQ2, LOTRO, GW2, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, etc. how can a TES fan be happy with that? Log into any one of those games, and tell me how the population is. And all but one is free!!! Pathetically eenough, thta is probably the most popular one!!

Really?  Which one is that?  Because I count 2 games there that require purchases.  Did Rift go F2P when I wasn't looking?

Also... er.. most of those games still have quite a few people playing, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 Actually EQ2 and LOTRO require purchasing expansions and subscriptions to enjoy the later portions of content.

Ah, I never got that far.  Thanks for the info.  That makes his/her post even more inaccurate.  /OT

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

4/20/13 9:10:42 PM#93
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Golelorn
If this game takes the road of EQ2, LOTRO, GW2, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, etc. how can a TES fan be happy with that? Log into any one of those games, and tell me how the population is. And all but one is free!!! Pathetically eenough, thta is probably the most popular one!!

Really?  Which one is that?  Because I count 2 games there that require purchases.  Did Rift go F2P when I wasn't looking?

Also... er.. most of those games still have quite a few people playing, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 Actually EQ2 and LOTRO require purchasing expansions and subscriptions to enjoy the later portions of content.

Ah, I never got that far.  Thanks for the info.  That makes his/her post even more inaccurate.  /OT

 Oh I forgot, you need to buy and pay for a subscription in Age of Conan awell. lol when I see these games "free-to-play" models I die a little inside. What trickery :) . The  reason I said, "what trickery" is because they're not truly a Free-to-play game. They're a freemium model.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4883

 
OP  4/20/13 9:42:40 PM#94
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

What I have seen on this forum is far from constructive feedback. Its been on the level of hate that is down right sad. They have made a concession but to please the mob mentality of this forum it would be no small task. You can label it as giving just your opinion and that is what some do but there is a vast number of people here who attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about the game thats not in line with the small mob thats grown here.

I hope the devs dont cave in at this point thinking this is the general status quo on ESO fans. Its mostly a MMOrpg.com theme thats is in almost every forum now. Hate is in, and we call it feedback. We hate before even get gameplay footage. We hate and tell devs how to make the game and whats wrong with it before we even play it. No wonder new games dont tell us they are even making a game till they are 3-4 years into development. 

We kick and bite at every design choice the devs make and as always, most people who like it dont post much past awesome I cant wait to play. So the devs mostly see the angery mob and start questioning if they should change their development path. Often games over the years has done just this and we gamers play a large part in why we are getting more and more crappy games. Developers no long just have fans, they have mobs that think they know better about game development then they and we create negitive feedback till they see it our way. Or else we will post something negitive in every thread and news outlet about the game. We drive away people thinking maybe our negitive thinking maybe true and often drive off new fans before any real reason is valid to do so. We dont have a product in had to be upset about.

Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game? 

But thats not what we talk about. We pick and pick at one point and make a storm on why its so bad till its changed. Then we pick a different point and do the same thing till all thats left is a shell of a game that was its original design. It becomes so messed up that when its finaly released we all say... see this game does suck but we are in a large part to blame. I hope the ESO devs keep the corse and not even bother coming to look at what the so called fans have to say here. 

 Put yourself in the position that many MMO advocates have experienced. These past X (8 in my opinion) years have been quite a let down in the MMO market. There aren't any shining gems that have risen to meet the expectations of their customers; only games that are mediocre and slightly approved. The majority are simply riding on the coat tails of the generic MMO (World of Warcraft clones). Most advocates of MMO's are able to understand how good/bad a MMO will become just by listening to the features a game has.

 When I listen to podcasts, forum posts, or major articles. I'm looking and listening for key features that'll keep me intrigued with a product. Features that developers state that I stay away from are: Cutting out the grind, quick teleportation to speed up gameplay, auction houses, and we have plenty of endgame. When I hear this I already gauge that the game's already catered towards the casual consumer. I absolutely don't want to hear, "we have plenty in store for endgame" because when I get to the end of the game I've won and that means there's no more content for me to experience.

 A game like ESO does several things that irritates its fans (myself included). They take such an expansive franchise and they alter it to the point that major fans can no longer even recognized. When someone thinks of a ES experience they think of an epic world where anything can be done. Where you were not limited to specific classes and you can do virtually whatever you please. ESO does none of this, you're limited by class, professions, and the lore has been twisted so they can warp it around this game. This is a game that has already disappointed the majority of the fan-base before it has even shipped.

If a company has the majority of their potential customers making complaints about core aspects of their game. I believe that's a hint to take it back to the draw board and find a way to fix it. Their customers are telling them exactly what they want fixed or how they imagined the game. It's their choice to listen to it or not. However, I personally believe it's bad business practice not listening to your customer. For example ES is known for the first person POV why would you stray away from that view point?

 I don't see companies keeping their products as secretive as they have in the past. I personally believe they're opening up their products to the public more now than ever before. They're allowing their potential customer(s) QA test the game before it even hits the shelves (which could potentially be a bad thing). I also believe that if you're hiding everything from your customers until the last minute you're probably hiding something terrible that  you don't want to be leaked (Many broken aspects of SWTOR).

 

 

I have been MMOing from the date on EQ1 launch day. Been around the block 14 odd years just on MMOs, been gaming almost 30 years. Still wont see me hating and acting I know what a game is really like before I get to really try it. If the game does not fit what I want I look for another. I may say why I dont like the game and but then I walk away. Taking over every thread where fans of the game are trying to talk about the game and turning everyone of them into a hate thread is where I am getting sick of it. If the game is that bad, then go find one you like. Many here have said very clearly, unless the game is remade from the ground up. They would not play it, yet they are here every day bashing in every thread.  

Im personally sick of the gear grind and happy with a MMO that focuses on teaming and fun over tones of heavy raid content that gets you fishing for new gear every 6-12 month. Games like GW2 and ESO are right what I am looking for. Something I can log on and play for 2-3 hours and skill matters over gear. Where I can get in any team even though I have shorter time to make my char uber like I did back in the day with EQ1 and WoW. DAoC was my first taste of that type of game play and I have been waiting for a game to do that again. I think ESO can do that. As a fan of the game I would like at least one thread where the hate stays out and we can talk about the game. That has yet to happen here.

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1125

4/20/13 9:45:37 PM#95
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Golelorn
If this game takes the road of EQ2, LOTRO, GW2, AoC, SWTOR, Rift, etc. how can a TES fan be happy with that? Log into any one of those games, and tell me how the population is. And all but one is free!!! Pathetically eenough, thta is probably the most popular one!!

Really?  Which one is that?  Because I count 2 games there that require purchases.  Did Rift go F2P when I wasn't looking?

Also... er.. most of those games still have quite a few people playing, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Off by one. Good call out. Truly worth trying to derail.

 

I guess it depends how one defines "quite a few".

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16613

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/20/13 9:54:26 PM#96
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
Originally posted by Katilla
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

i didn't see tab targeting... have you even seen any footage?? Stop calling everything a WoW clone like it was the FIRST MMO evar.  WoW and TESO look nothing alike and do not play the same.

Have you seen any footage? Go watch the very beginning when he kills the rats. Thanks

 Kiling rats makes a game a WOW clone?  He was doing it out of his own free will, not something he was asked to do, he was still on the ship he arrived on. So what about that has anything to do with WOW? You realize also that during the act of killing those rats, he was using a staff by hitting the left mouse button, just like you would in TES V killing a skeever? Nothing like WOW combat...thanks...

Here's an excerpt from the recent Gameinformer for anyone curious about questing (this is from the starting area after 4 hours of play)

"Throughout my four hours of play , I never once was asked to kill ten rats, collect twelve bear tongues, or find sixteen scattered relics. Every quest has a decent-to-good story attached to it, and every objective would feel right at home in Skyrim or Oblivion. The questing I undertook in ESO is a cut above any designer scripted solo adventuring I've done in other MMORPGs."

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  User Deleted
4/20/13 10:02:55 PM#97

Not trying to derail this thread, however would like to give some general information.

 

1) Morrowind had classes, as per the manual.

Combat Specialized Classes              Magic Specialized Classes             Stealth Specialized Classes

Warriors                                               Mages                                              Thieves

Barbarians                                           Sorcerers                                         Agents

Crusaders                                           Healers                                            Assassins

Knights                                               Battlemages                                     Acrobats

Scouts                                                Witchhunters                                    Monks

Archers                                              Spellswords                                      Pilgrims

Rogues                                              Nightblades                                      Bards

Also had a hotbar which was called Quick Menu accessed with the "F1" key, allowing the player to load any spell,weapon,

potion, or power for fast access.

 

2)Oblivion had classes, as per the manual.

Predefined classes

Oblivion comes with 21 predefined classes, seven for each specialization. Their Specializations,Major skills,and Attributes

bonuses have already been selected for you. (basicly the same list as above)

Oblivion also had a hotbar that worked the same as Morrowinds using the 1 to 8 keys

3)Skyrim does NOT have the predefined classes, however Skyrim still uses the hotbar.

Skyrim game manual page 2 Gameplay Controls

Hot key items 1 thru 8

All TES games have been SOFT LOCK targeting.

 

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5630

4/20/13 10:04:34 PM#98
Originally posted by Zanthorn

Not trying to derail this thread, however would like to give some general information.

 

1) Morrowind had classes, as per the manual.

Combat Specialized Classes              Magic Specialized Classes             Stealth Specialized Classes

Warriors                                               Mages                                              Thieves

Barbarians                                           Sorcerers                                         Agents

Crusaders                                           Healers                                            Assassins

Knights                                               Battlemages                                     Acrobats

Scouts                                                Witchhunters                                    Monks

Archers                                              Spellswords                                      Pilgrims

Rogues                                              Nightblades                                      Bards

Also had a hotbar which was called Quick Menu accessed with the "F1" key, allowing the player to load any spell,weapon,

potion, or power for fast access.

 

2)Oblivion had classes, as per the manual.

Predefined classes

Oblivion comes with 21 predefined classes, seven for each specialization. Their Specializations,Major skills,and Attributes

bonuses have already been selected for you. (basicly the same list as above)

Oblivion also had a hotbar that worked the same as Morrowinds using the 1 to 8 keys

3)Skyrim does NOT have the predefined classes, however Skyrim still uses the hotbar.

Skyrim game manual page 2 Gameplay Controls

Hot key items 1 thru 8

All TES games have been SOFT LOCK targeting.

 

Yeah, but you could pick warrior and then go full mage. It just took more time.

 

Edit: I also never once picked a class for my character. I always chose my main and secondary specializations myself.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16613

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/20/13 10:28:16 PM#99
Originally posted by Zanthorn

All TES games have been SOFT LOCK targeting.

 

While the rest of your post was pretty much accurate, this part on the other hand is not. Soft lock means spells/Arrows hone in on a target, they will not strike things that jump in the way, instead they will travel though toward their target (as long as you are aiming toward them).. I believe this is only the case when you have a target soft locked though.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2909

4/20/13 11:05:00 PM#100
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

What I have seen on this forum is far from constructive feedback. Its been on the level of hate that is down right sad. They have made a concession but to please the mob mentality of this forum it would be no small task. You can label it as giving just your opinion and that is what some do but there is a vast number of people here who attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about the game thats not in line with the small mob thats grown here.

I hope the devs dont cave in at this point thinking this is the general status quo on ESO fans. Its mostly a MMOrpg.com theme thats is in almost every forum now. Hate is in, and we call it feedback. We hate before even get gameplay footage. We hate and tell devs how to make the game and whats wrong with it before we even play it. No wonder new games dont tell us they are even making a game till they are 3-4 years into development. 

We kick and bite at every design choice the devs make and as always, most people who like it dont post much past awesome I cant wait to play. So the devs mostly see the angery mob and start questioning if they should change their development path. Often games over the years has done just this and we gamers play a large part in why we are getting more and more crappy games. Developers no long just have fans, they have mobs that think they know better about game development then they and we create negitive feedback till they see it our way. Or else we will post something negitive in every thread and news outlet about the game. We drive away people thinking maybe our negitive thinking maybe true and often drive off new fans before any real reason is valid to do so. We dont have a product in had to be upset about.

Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game? 

But thats not what we talk about. We pick and pick at one point and make a storm on why its so bad till its changed. Then we pick a different point and do the same thing till all thats left is a shell of a game that was its original design. It becomes so messed up that when its finaly released we all say... see this game does suck but we are in a large part to blame. I hope the ESO devs keep the corse and not even bother coming to look at what the so called fans have to say here. 

 Put yourself in the position that many MMO advocates have experienced. These past X (8 in my opinion) years have been quite a let down in the MMO market. There aren't any shining gems that have risen to meet the expectations of their customers; only games that are mediocre and slightly approved. The majority are simply riding on the coat tails of the generic MMO (World of Warcraft clones). Most advocates of MMO's are able to understand how good/bad a MMO will become just by listening to the features a game has.

 When I listen to podcasts, forum posts, or major articles. I'm looking and listening for key features that'll keep me intrigued with a product. Features that developers state that I stay away from are: Cutting out the grind, quick teleportation to speed up gameplay, auction houses, and we have plenty of endgame. When I hear this I already gauge that the game's already catered towards the casual consumer. I absolutely don't want to hear, "we have plenty in store for endgame" because when I get to the end of the game I've won and that means there's no more content for me to experience.

 A game like ESO does several things that irritates its fans (myself included). They take such an expansive franchise and they alter it to the point that major fans can no longer even recognized. When someone thinks of a ES experience they think of an epic world where anything can be done. Where you were not limited to specific classes and you can do virtually whatever you please. ESO does none of this, you're limited by class, professions, and the lore has been twisted so they can warp it around this game. This is a game that has already disappointed the majority of the fan-base before it has even shipped.

If a company has the majority of their potential customers making complaints about core aspects of their game. I believe that's a hint to take it back to the draw board and find a way to fix it. Their customers are telling them exactly what they want fixed or how they imagined the game. It's their choice to listen to it or not. However, I personally believe it's bad business practice not listening to your customer. For example ES is known for the first person POV why would you stray away from that view point?

 I don't see companies keeping their products as secretive as they have in the past. I personally believe they're opening up their products to the public more now than ever before. They're allowing their potential customer(s) QA test the game before it even hits the shelves (which could potentially be a bad thing). I also believe that if you're hiding everything from your customers until the last minute you're probably hiding something terrible that  you don't want to be leaked (Many broken aspects of SWTOR).

 

 

I have been MMOing from the date on EQ1 launch day. Been around the block 14 odd years just on MMOs, been gaming almost 30 years. Still wont see me hating and acting I know what a game is really like before I get to really try it. If the game does not fit what I want I look for another. I may say why I dont like the game and but then I walk away. Taking over every thread where fans of the game are trying to talk about the game and turning everyone of them into a hate thread is where I am getting sick of it. If the game is that bad, then go find one you like. Many here have said very clearly, unless the game is remade from the ground up. They would not play it, yet they are here every day bashing in every thread.  

Im personally sick of the gear grind and happy with a MMO that focuses on teaming and fun over tones of heavy raid content that gets you fishing for new gear every 6-12 month. Games like GW2 and ESO are right what I am looking for. Something I can log on and play for 2-3 hours and skill matters over gear. Where I can get in any team even though I have shorter time to make my char uber like I did back in the day with EQ1 and WoW. DAoC was my first taste of that type of game play and I have been waiting for a game to do that again. I think ESO can do that. As a fan of the game I would like at least one thread where the hate stays out and we can talk about the game. That has yet to happen here.

 Could you tone it down on the green? It hurts my eyes lol!

 I completely understand that you don't want to be stuck grinding all the time. However, it's a trend that does not work with a proper MMO. Now, don't say World of Warcraft is exactly what counters my argument. Because it truly isn't, it's a game that was originally built around a lot of grindy systems. Over the years they cut out most of the grind which is where World of Warcraft is today.

 Many companies are trying to copy today's World of Warcraft. The easy teleportation, loot pinatas, low leveling curve, auction houses, and simple questing features. However, these features don't sustain a long living MMO and it kills any other MMO that attempts to recreate it. The only reason WoW is so successful still is that it has built up such a massive world of content and there's no other game game except for Everquest that can counter that amount of content that has been put into the game.

 I'm not saying that ESO is going to utterly suck. I'm personally saying that I dislike the features that I've heard about. It's also not what I expect when I imagine a Elder Scrolls game (Many other people dislike the way they've developed ESO aswell). That's why I've chosen not to play it for now. However, becoming angry because many people have negative opinions on something you like. Then writing about how their opinions shouldn't be voiced is wrong. Instead talk about the positives that are coming from the game. All you're doing is throwing in more negativity that leads no where other than a flame war.

 I also know I don't "act like I know I won't like something" I know what I don't like. Which is why I stay informed with the latest MMO's that are coming out. I've done my research and I've come to my conclusion. The video footage will not prove to be any different for me.

 MMORPG.com is also a place where people come to chat. Whether it'll be positive or negative people come here to socialize. If you don't like to hear the negatives blindly ignore them. You yourself said, "Still wont see me hating and acting I know what a game is really like before I get to really try it. If the game does not fit what I want I look for another." If you don't like the topics that are being posted about the game. Just ignore them and look for another topic.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

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