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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » 10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too

22 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
430 posts found
  jmcdermottuk

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 779

4/20/13 3:31:27 PM#41

@ Nanfoodle

Ok so basically having gone through your previous posts and seeing the choral approval you've given to the game I could call you a fanboi. There's about as much truth in that as there is in you calling me a hater. Neither statement is true.

Closer to the truth is that you like the direction the game is taking. In your opinion there is enough TES included to justify the title and you get the bonus of DAoC RvR, which you were also a fan of.

It's also closer to the truth that I don't approve because, in my opinion, there isn't enough TES. Geography and names aren't enough for me. Including a class structure that will restrict my playstyle to that class's abilities only is not good enough for me. Placing Faction Locks and restricting my ability to freely roam the PvE world isn't enough for me. Why? Well, because that's not how TES games have played in the past. The inclusion of 3 faction RvR, which I also enjoyed in DAoC, doesn't feel right to me because it's from DAoC and not TES.

Just because I don't think the game is being true to the TES IP and have voiced that opinion on this forum doesn't make me a hater. It makes me a TES fan that's unhappy with Zenimax and the direction in which they're taking an MMO I was looking forward to.

My personal favourite was Daggerfall. After progressing through around 5% of the actual storyline, I ditched it and struck out on my own path. I joined the theives guild, refused to join the assassin's guild, was repeatedly attacked and ambushed by them as a result (and beat the snot out of them every time), carried a huge 2h sword, wore plate armour, picked locks and pockets, was a dab hand at levitating and healing and also threw a mean fireball. That is The Elder Scrolls! I got months of play out of that game, and then did it all over again as a vampire, then again as a lycantthrope. That's what I wanted to see the MMO based on.

I don't hate TES:O. I'm just very disappointed that it's not being done in a way I would consider suitable for a TES MMO. As long as I'm not banned from these forums I'll continue to voice that opinion as often as I like, despite any opposition from others.

Make no mistake, this is feedback. This is me saying "Hey Zenimax! WTF are you doing? That's not TES, you muppets! What's wrong with you guys?".

  SaintWalker44

Novice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 87

4/20/13 3:40:12 PM#42

"Oh no, theres instancing, tab targeting and GASP a hot bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

 

LMAO....who really gives a flying fck?  Seriously..........Who really gives a sht if theres tab targeting? Ive used it for years and have zero problems continuing to do so.

 

Instancing? " Oh no, my immersion is lifting!!:"   silly children......get real, a five second loading screen is absolutley nothing, no big deal.......

 

 

These 'problems' are anything but problems.  Spoiled silly mmoers thinking they know how to design an mmo...

All Will Be Well.....

  SaintWalker44

Novice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 87

4/20/13 3:43:13 PM#43
Originally posted by hammarus
Perhaps we as a gaming culture have been burned so often that we are entitled to our hate.

Wrong..............Just wrong

 

 

Your expectations are unrealistic, as usual. You THINK you know better then everyone else. In reality, you have no idea....

 

Hate? lmao

All Will Be Well.....

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 983

4/20/13 3:53:59 PM#44
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by Piiritus
Actually I'm getting sick of Daoc mentioned in every TESO thread. It it TES game or some half-arsed Daoc reincarnation then with TES skin to bump the sales? Every time I read how Daoc TESO is I get less interested in this MMO.

its nothing like DAOC

the only things it shares with daoc are equality of gear regardless of playstyle and 3 factions with some sort of semi persistent pvp area. (and the semi-persistent nature is GW2 not daoc)

A cursory look at its feature list revals it shares more things with wow, tsw, gw2 and swtor amongst others than it does with daoc.

 

I don't mind that RvRvR area and it can actually be fun. I just want to see enough TES in that game, including more freedom than in some MMOs you mentioned. Well, time will tell.

Btw, I'm sure I'll buy and play TESO. I'm just expressing my scepticism based on contradictory information we have so far. 

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

4/20/13 4:02:49 PM#45
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about any game

Fixed a minor flaw in your premise. Because I think you're feeling unfairly picked-on or singled out.

Feel better?

  Eol-

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 273

4/20/13 4:29:50 PM#46
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
 

When developers or publishers choose a target audience they have to appeal to that target audience or they will fail to achieve the level of success they both predict and have based spending on. 

Age of Conan, TERA, and SWTOR just to name a few picked an audience, failed to listen to and appeal to said audience and didn't meet their goals. This hurts both players and the developer. Players end up feeling ripped off because a game touted as a game made for them turned out not to be and yet another $60+ goes down the drain, it hurts developers because then they are scrambling to fix things when its already to late. Content has to be pounded out in a short amount of time, the business model needs to be reworked, mechanics and systems need to be changed and tweaked, then they have to deal with all of this and much more while being forced to lay off the bulk of their staff. 

TESO has chosen TES fans as their target audience and this was done so the moment they decided to go with the name and the lore. If they fail to appeal and listen to their target audience it will end up causing everyone a lot of headaches and dissapointment down the road which has been proven time and time again. Look at FFXIV and what it had to go through after failing to appeal to its target audience and listen to them. They ended up having to spend twice as much as planned to develop the game in the end and their earning potential has been severely reduced after the failed first launch. 

 

Though that isn't the point of your post. You wanted to say that even though it may seem like the majority doesn't agree with the direction they are taking TESO you want Zenimax to know that its just a vocal minority and that far more people like it and just don't post on this forum. The games I listed had people saying the same thing you are saying now about them, the silent majority never materialized though and the games struggled. Would you like me to post similar posts from the FFXIV forums saying pretty much the same thing about it that you are saying now?

 

I am one of many fans of ESO is who the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob. 

I agree with the second poster.

As far as the first poster, who said they should appeal to Elder Scrolls fans as their primary audience, please tell me, exactly what MMORPG endgame do those players want? Because they can not do Elder Scrolls levelling content forever. For hardcore players, maybe a month or two even with slow levelling. Then what? They have to go beyond RPG content and have MMORPG endgame content that can keep players interested for many months. Basically there are two MMORPG models for doing that: 1) the Everquest/WoW model of PvE dungeons with epic bosses that only large well coordinated groups can do, and 2) a PvP model such as DAoC or other PvP endgame games. They seem to be offering mostly the latter, with a bit of the former. THERE IS NO REAL WAY TO SAY WHAT ELDER SCROLLS FANS PREFER BECAUSE NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS IS IN ELDER SCROLL RPG'S.

ESO can NOT just be Elder Scrolls RPGs in groups, there is no way to provide enough content to last beyond a few months. They have to add an MMORPG endgame which by definition means it cant just be Skyrim online. Thats the reality.  People keep saying that they should just stay loyal to the Elder Scrolls RPG but those people do not say how they can provide endgame content by doing that... because they cant.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1061

4/20/13 5:10:56 PM#47

The developers used their RvRvR template to stamp out an end game for ESO that did not require continuous content creation.  Not a terrible plan.  The problem was that they went the easy route and designed in a contiguous region, racial lock for the defining element of the factions.   No reason they really had to;  it was just what they were familiar with, and relatively simple to do.     It does cause a ruckus with the a lot of the Elder Scrolls fanbase though. 

 

I'd have put in three factions that had some actual ideology/background/theme, and let people join up.  It would have required more work, but would have better fit the milieu.   Don't think it is even remotely possible now. 

 

The best choice they could make at this point would be to allow any race to be a member of any faction while keeping the faction lock gameplay.   NPCs will be set up that way, I assure you.  They could even do something like monetizing it, charge you something to be an out-of-faction character.   Given that they have already genericized the content (They have too: no way you'd get the same reactions to a Nord, a Dunmer, and an Argonian  without it),  it wouldn't take much to open that up.    It would go a ways to ameliorating the feedback they are getting right now.

 

As for gameplay, well, there are always going to be issues.  Some of them come from the physical nature of playing a game through the internet, with it's myriad of specs and problems.  Certain ways of doing things are known to work.  We may not like them, but experimenting with your hundreds of million dollar game is risky.   Not that being conservative will always succeed either (ie, SWToR).

 

I think that ESO will have some serious problems unless it is managed very well.  There's a huge body of ES fans that are uninterested in the RvR endgame, and even if captured as players by the game's background, they will start to leave when they run out of stuff of interest to them.  Regardless of what the RvR plays like. 

 

 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/20/13 5:16:11 PM#48

If you don't follow the majority and have your own taste, that's good. Complaining about the mob mentality is pointless, they'll just mob on you harder.

I recently stopped giving a flying shit about what my friends are playing, or what the majority is playing... or what their thoughts on games are. It's pretty liberating to play what you want to play. If you think a game sucks, don't play it or support it financially, that speaks louder than anything you could ever post on here does.

There's a slew of new games coming out that deserve a try. Who cares who's playing what? The best thing about MMO's is you can always find another guild.

 

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

4/20/13 5:19:10 PM#49

I don't agree with the mob mentality, but how can you be certain of anyone's motives?  Me, I watched a few gameplay videos.  Some were better than others, but I still think the ranged combat looks like garbage, irrespective of how good the player was.  There's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to give the game a try no matter what the internet has to say about it.  My main worry is that the developers are hoping to make their money back on name recognition alone, and then basically throw their hands in the air and say "Yeah it was mediocre, but we still got paid, thanks suckers".

I think it's a valid concern.

  jmcdermottuk

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 779

4/20/13 5:22:21 PM#50
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
 

When developers or publishers choose a target audience they have to appeal to that target audience or they will fail to achieve the level of success they both predict and have based spending on. 

Age of Conan, TERA, and SWTOR just to name a few picked an audience, failed to listen to and appeal to said audience and didn't meet their goals. This hurts both players and the developer. Players end up feeling ripped off because a game touted as a game made for them turned out not to be and yet another $60+ goes down the drain, it hurts developers because then they are scrambling to fix things when its already to late. Content has to be pounded out in a short amount of time, the business model needs to be reworked, mechanics and systems need to be changed and tweaked, then they have to deal with all of this and much more while being forced to lay off the bulk of their staff. 

TESO has chosen TES fans as their target audience and this was done so the moment they decided to go with the name and the lore. If they fail to appeal and listen to their target audience it will end up causing everyone a lot of headaches and dissapointment down the road which has been proven time and time again. Look at FFXIV and what it had to go through after failing to appeal to its target audience and listen to them. They ended up having to spend twice as much as planned to develop the game in the end and their earning potential has been severely reduced after the failed first launch. 

 

Though that isn't the point of your post. You wanted to say that even though it may seem like the majority doesn't agree with the direction they are taking TESO you want Zenimax to know that its just a vocal minority and that far more people like it and just don't post on this forum. The games I listed had people saying the same thing you are saying now about them, the silent majority never materialized though and the games struggled. Would you like me to post similar posts from the FFXIV forums saying pretty much the same thing about it that you are saying now?

 

I am one of many fans of ESO is who the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob. 

I agree with the second poster.

As far as the first poster, who said they should appeal to Elder Scrolls fans as their primary audience, please tell me, exactly what MMORPG endgame do those players want? Because they can not do Elder Scrolls levelling content forever. For hardcore players, maybe a month or two even with slow levelling. Then what? They have to go beyond RPG content and have MMORPG endgame content that can keep players interested for many months. Basically there are two MMORPG models for doing that: 1) the Everquest/WoW model of PvE dungeons with epic bosses that only large well coordinated groups can do, and 2) a PvP model such as DAoC or other PvP endgame games. They seem to be offering mostly the latter, with a bit of the former. THERE IS NO REAL WAY TO SAY WHAT ELDER SCROLLS FANS PREFER BECAUSE NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS IS IN ELDER SCROLL RPG'S.

ESO can NOT just be Elder Scrolls RPGs in groups, there is no way to provide enough content to last beyond a few months. They have to add an MMORPG endgame which by definition means it cant just be Skyrim online. Thats the reality.  People keep saying that they should just stay loyal to the Elder Scrolls RPG but those people do not say how they can provide endgame content by doing that... because they cant.

It seems that both you and Nanfoodle are fixating on this RvR aspect of the game and blaming all opposition on it's inclusion.

That's just not the case. I and many others have brought up other aspects of the game which we feel don't properly reflect the franchise.

Lets leave the 3 faction RvR aside as an end game mechanic and talk about something else that is affected by it. Elder Scrolls games have always allowed you the freedom to explore Tamriel. Regardless of your point of origin you can go anywhere. So lets say I want to be a Redguard. Now I'm faction locked into an alliance I have no choice over. I'm restricted in where I can go to play the PvE game until I hit the level cap.

Now that's nothing to do with RvR at all, this is the PvE game we're talking about, and not end game PvE either. That restriction goes against every Elder Scrolls game to date.

Maybe I'm not interested in RvR. Why isn't it a choice to join this alliance? Why is there no option to leave it, allowing me to leave the area and PvE in other regions? Wouldn't that be more in keeping with a real Elder Scrolls game? Allowing the player that choice? Lets' face it, every Elder Scrolls game to date has been a PvE game. They had to be, being single player games. Now we're suddenly given the MMO and it's PvP centric. I can see that rationalisation for Warhammer, or Warcraft or a number of other IP's, but not for TES.

Now lets move on to another subject which has nothing to do with RvR at all. Classes. Classes in Elder Scrolls games have always been used as templates and nothing more. There was always an option to use no template and just mix and match what you wanted. If you did use a template, you weren't locked in to some list of class skills and abilities. You were free to use any skill, ability or spell you wanted to. And yet here we are with classes. Not Elder Scrolls is it?

 

I'm going to be guilty of saying what a lot of others have said now, but I'll explain my reason for it. This feels like DAoC with a TES name. There I've gone and done it. Ok, so now the reason.

Faction locking: Ok so I used Redguards as an example already so let's stick with that. I make a Redguard, I'm now locked to that Alliance, my PvE game is restricted to that region, and I will RvR at end game, playing the class I chose when I created my character.

How is this different to me making a Briton, being part of the Albion Realm, levelling up in PvE inside that realm's borders and doing RvR at end game as, let's pick a Paladin, the class I picked at character creation?

I'll tell you what the difference is. The names. That's it. Nothing else, just the names.

 

Now you can call me a hater all you like, you can accuse me of being short sighted and not understanding that they need some sort of end game. You can use whatever justification you like to try and deny what I'm saying. The simple truth is, this is DAoC with different names. Now I loved DAoC, until they fucked it with ToA, and I'd like nothing better than to see a new DAoC released. I just object to it being called The Elder Scrolls Online. I'd much rather it was called something more appropriate, and "The Elder Scrolls Online" was used for an MMO that was based on the design philosophy of the single player games. Classless, no skill resrictions, free roaming open exploration. It needs to be more sandbox than themepark. There need to be more player choices in all areas of the game. And if you have to include PvP (which you really don't) at least implement it in a way that makes sense for the IP instead of borrowing a system from another game which just doesn't make sense.

So let's stop blaming this all on 3 faction RvR. There's more to it that just that one thing.

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1061

4/20/13 5:23:02 PM#51
Originally posted by wordiz

If you don't follow the majority and have your own taste, that's good. Complaining about the mob mentality is pointless, they'll just mob on you harder.

I recently stopped giving a flying shit about what my friends are playing, or what the majority is playing... or what their thoughts on games are, it's pretty liberating to play what you want to play. If you think a game sucks, don't play it or support it financially, that speaks louder than anything you could ever post on here does.

There's a slew of new games coming out that deserve a try. Who cares who's playing what? The best thing about MMO's is you can always find another guild.

 

Great for the individual, but companies and developers building large, expensive games absolutely have to pay attention to what the larger audience thinks about paying for their game.   The developer's investment in the game  has to match the amount of money that will be coming in.  Misjudge that badly enough, and you will be out on the street. 

 

 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/20/13 5:25:54 PM#52
Originally posted by Eir_S

I don't agree with the mob mentality, but how can you be certain of anyone's motives?  Me, I watched a few gameplay videos.  Some were better than others, but I still think the ranged combat looks like garbage, irrespective of how good the player was.  There's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to give the game a try no matter what the internet has to say about it.  My main worry is that the developers are hoping to make their money back on name recognition alone, and then basically throw their hands in the air and say "Yeah it was mediocre, but we still got paid, thanks suckers".

I think it's a valid concern.

This is where you gotta judge them by their fruits. EA and Bioware had recent negative track records prior to the fail of SWTOR. Bethesda has, IMO, released nothing but quality games. One could expect the same from Zenimax because of this, or see them as the seperate entities they are and not know what to expect. Regardless of being seperate companies, Bethesda is still putting their rep on the line with this game, and I can't see them trying to piss off and/or betray their hordes of loyal players.

 

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

4/20/13 5:26:52 PM#53
Neverwinter is going to fail because it is nothing like D&D or Neverwinter. If TESO learns from this it will do well, otherwise it will make another entry in the MMO graveyard.
  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/20/13 5:31:53 PM#54
Originally posted by Arglebargle
Originally posted by wordiz

If you don't follow the majority and have your own taste, that's good. Complaining about the mob mentality is pointless, they'll just mob on you harder.

I recently stopped giving a flying shit about what my friends are playing, or what the majority is playing... or what their thoughts on games are, it's pretty liberating to play what you want to play. If you think a game sucks, don't play it or support it financially, that speaks louder than anything you could ever post on here does.

There's a slew of new games coming out that deserve a try. Who cares who's playing what? The best thing about MMO's is you can always find another guild.

 

Great for the individual, but companies and developers building large, expensive games absolutely have to pay attention to what the larger audience thinks about paying for their game.   The developer's investment in the game  has to match the amount of money that will be coming in.  Misjudge that badly enough, and you will be out on the street. 

 

 

Naturally, that response was tailored for the individual. At the same time, if all gamers operated that way, support would flow towards the games they wanted to play regardless. The minority gets screwed by the industry in the end either way.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  XxGrimmxX

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

4/20/13 5:32:20 PM#55
If you are expecting TESO to be like any of the previous TES games that we've all enjoyed, you're going to have a bad time.
  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/20/13 5:33:06 PM#56
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
If you are expecting TESO to be like any of the previous TES games that we've all enjoyed, you're going to have a bad time.

As if Bethesda doesn't have another chapter in the series planned regardless of this game. This is why Zenimax is handling it.

I'm a long time fan of TES series since Daggerfall. I don't get why fans of the series, lore junkies and whatnot (like myself) act like this game is ending the series, or if we even have to honor the lore of TESO in regard to the rest of the series. We'll still have more amazing TES games, Fallout games etc. from Bethesda whether this game tanks or is the end all MMO.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18928

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/20/13 5:36:31 PM#57
The only thing I really hate is when other people tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree with them or dislike some game they favor. TESO probably isn't the title for me, and no I don't have to play it first to have that opinion.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  XxGrimmxX

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 245

4/20/13 5:38:33 PM#58
Originally posted by Kyleran
The only thing I really hate is when other people tell me that I'm not allowed to disagree with them or dislike some game they favor. TESO probably isn't the title for me, and no I don't have to play it first to have that opinion.

this

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

4/20/13 5:44:25 PM#59

I think being overly aggressively positive about a game you have no practical experience of is jsut as bad as being overly aggressively negative.I personally have opinion on what I've read but have reserved judgement until I can get soem paly time with the game.

I am an old PC gamer so have been playing Elder Scroll since DOS and Arena....well ok DOS and Arena a year after release when it was actually playable.How the hell did Bethseda surivive the awful releases of the First 2 Elder Scroll games and to a lesser extent the third?Amazing.

That being said I only care if a game is fun to paly and holds my attention.If it does that I don't care if it's not exactly liek a single player ES game that has other players in it.

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

4/20/13 5:44:25 PM#60
Originally posted by wordiz
Originally posted by XxGrimmxX
If you are expecting TESO to be like any of the previous TES games that we've all enjoyed, you're going to have a bad time.

As if Bethesda doesn't have another chapter in the series planned regardless of this game. This is why Zenimax is handling it.

I'm a long time fan of TES series since Daggerfall. I don't get why fans of the series, lore junkies and whatnot (like myself) act like this game is ending the series, or if we even have to honor the lore of TESO in regard to the rest of the series. We'll still have more amazing TES games, Fallout games etc. from Bethesda whether this game tanks or is the end all MMO.

You don't get why people expect TES MMO to be like TES? Some people actually care if they waste money also.

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