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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Poll - would you prefer ESO to be more like the series and a PvE sandbox only?

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168 posts found
  Kinchyle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 264

4/14/13 10:47:32 PM#21

Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.

Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world.

As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D

Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2638

110100100

4/14/13 11:05:21 PM#22


Originally posted by Kinchyle
Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.

Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world.

As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D

Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.


TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game.

in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players.

that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox.

could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike).

does that answer your first question?

as far as pvp goes, i am in the same boat. i loved Daoc pvp but its hard to say how long the pvp will keep me interested in TESO.

if there is no way to advance your character like you could in Daoc (realm points) then i would assume it wont last long for me.

i know there will be alliance points similar to realm points but i am concerned that it will just be cosmetic upgrades or other things that don't actually advance your character.

that was my main issue with GW2...well that and the fact that it was just a huge zerg fest and nothing more.

i like the fact that in cyrodiil, it acts as a full fledged pve zone as well.

that way people can hopefully still get the open world pvp feeling, even though it is still segregated from the rest of the world.

the area will be huge as well.


  Kinchyle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 264

4/14/13 11:14:28 PM#23

 


Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by Kinchyle Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.   Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world. As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.
  TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game. in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players. that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox. could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike). does that answer your first question?
 

 

Yeah...I getcha. Makes sense in the full "sandbox" term. You are not just visiting another persons sandbox, you help define it.

In that case....I really have never seen a true sandbox MMO. Really can't see how any of these top tier MMOs could ever accomplish it either. One could hope though.

*Edit - Love how it mashed all the sentences together so I could respond to one part of your post. Awesome :D

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1132

4/15/13 5:52:50 AM#24
AvA is the only reason I'm interested in TESO, so you can guess my answer. I can see why fans of the RPG series may not like some of the design decisions that were made to give AvA a backstory. I would love it if developers completely separated PvE and RvR so it was almost like getting 2 games for 1 price, but that isn't the path that was taken for TESO. Hopefully AvA won't be ruined by PvE gear and PvE won't be ruined by the factions created for AvA.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2718

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/15/13 8:59:45 AM#25
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Kinchyle
Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.

 

Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world.

As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D

Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.


 

TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game.

in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players.

that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox.

could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike).

does that answer your first question?

as far as pvp goes, i am in the same boat. i loved Daoc pvp but its hard to say how long the pvp will keep me interested in TESO.

if there is no way to advance your character like you could in Daoc (realm points) then i would assume it wont last long for me.

i know there will be alliance points similar to realm points but i am concerned that it will just be cosmetic upgrades or other things that don't actually advance your character.

that was my main issue with GW2...well that and the fact that it was just a huge zerg fest and nothing more.

i like the fact that in cyrodiil, it acts as a full fledged pve zone as well.

that way people can hopefully still get the open world pvp feeling, even though it is still segregated from the rest of the world.

the area will be huge as well.

 

I have been playing Skyrim since November the 11th 2011 when it released at least several times a week.  I have 5 characters (2 that are playable since my first 3 characters save files became corrupted)  A level 81, 2-Handed and  Destruction Magic, Light Armor Melee type and my 47'ish Sneak Thief (Archery, Light Armor, Sneak) and not once in over a year and a half playing this game religiously every week have I ever done the main storyline past Whiterun where the Dragon Quest begins.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2638

110100100

4/15/13 1:30:15 PM#26


Originally posted by azzamasin

Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by Kinchyle Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.   Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world. As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.
  TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game. in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players. that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox. could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike). does that answer your first question? as far as pvp goes, i am in the same boat. i loved Daoc pvp but its hard to say how long the pvp will keep me interested in TESO. if there is no way to advance your character like you could in Daoc (realm points) then i would assume it wont last long for me. i know there will be alliance points similar to realm points but i am concerned that it will just be cosmetic upgrades or other things that don't actually advance your character. that was my main issue with GW2...well that and the fact that it was just a huge zerg fest and nothing more. i like the fact that in cyrodiil, it acts as a full fledged pve zone as well. that way people can hopefully still get the open world pvp feeling, even though it is still segregated from the rest of the world. the area will be huge as well.  
I have been playing Skyrim since November the 11th 2011 when it released at least several times a week.  I have 5 characters (2 that are playable since my first 3 characters save files became corrupted)  A level 81, 2-Handed and  Destruction Magic, Light Armor Melee type and my 47'ish Sneak Thief (Archery, Light Armor, Sneak) and not once in over a year and a half playing this game religiously every week have I ever done the main storyline past Whiterun where the Dragon Quest begins.

so you have done no quests at all? or just the main story quest? i usually wait to do the main story until i am higher level so i know avoiding the main story quest is very possible.

but there are a lot of other quests and quest lines in the game.

not sure what you mean to imply, that skyrim isn't a quest driven game?

if you refused to do any quests a gigantic portion of the game will be bypassed.

you would then be left with crafting and exploring some of the dungeons, since you wouldn't have access to all of them due to them being locked.

better scratch being able to go anywhere and do anything, eh?


  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1816

"I shall take your position into consideration"

4/16/13 10:21:41 AM#27

I would personally decrease the PvP focus and make the game more PVE oriented. I would not eliminate PVP completely. In this scenario, I would keep the name Elder Scrolls Online.

Other possibility for me would be keeping current design and changing the name of the game.

I cant help it, but I see current formula like this:

RvRvR + ES Name = nonsense

 

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Rivenx1

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/13
Posts: 4

4/16/13 1:19:38 PM#28
I think it's become increasingly obvious what the majority mean when they use the term sandbox (no faction lock, more freedom etc.) even if it does not fit your definition. Why is it so hard to imagine a themepark with free roam and more personal freedom to choose how they want to approach the game, instead of being pigeonholed all the damn time. I would have much prefered a more pve focused game.
  Kyelthis

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/10
Posts: 285

4/16/13 1:30:34 PM#29
Originally posted by Kinchyle

 


Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by Kinchyle Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.   Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world. As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.
  TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game. in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players. that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox. could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike). does that answer your first question?
 

 

Yeah...I getcha. Makes sense in the full "sandbox" term. You are not just visiting another persons sandbox, you help define it.

In that case....I really have never seen a true sandbox MMO. Really can't see how any of these top tier MMOs could ever accomplish it either. One could hope though.

*Edit - Love how it mashed all the sentences together so I could respond to one part of your post. Awesome :D

Second Life and EVE Online are 2 large sandbox MMOs, probably the 2 most populated at any rate. Sandboxes, although there have been many released, just never seem to hold a steady or healthy population compared to themeparks. 

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 883

4/16/13 1:34:42 PM#30
Why do people constantly come up with these pointless polls?  Newsflash... your little opinions don't mean crap to the developers.  They have already set the course for the game and nothing is gonna change that.  And they sure as hell not gonna take heed of anyone's poll at this site anyways.  Now if it was an in depth discussion and trend on the official forums when they become available then they MIGHT listen but they sure as hell not gonna scrap their design.
  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1835

4/16/13 3:50:26 PM#31

I just watched that leaked video on that guys podcast and he makes an interesting point. Most TES fans were probably hoping and expecting for a Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim type game with the only difference being a large amount of people to play with. Given that I've played MMORPG's and other online games since 2002, there's no reason to think that this couldn't be done. In fact, that's what I actually wanted. 

I like PvP, but PvP in MMORPG's usually means the homoginization of classes all in the name of balance. I'm the type that is fine with little to no balance or the rock>paper>scissors approach. 

  ElderRat

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/10
Posts: 909

4/16/13 3:52:38 PM#32
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

I think the problem with this poll is that it's too exclusive. I voted yes because I would prefer a more sandbox game, less restrictions on factions, no locks, no fixed clases and the limitations that implies. If it was PvE only that wouldn't worry me too much.

Here's the BUT. Why does it need to be PvE only? I don't see any reason why you couldn't make a TES MMO like the series, where players were free to start as any race they wanted, move freely to any region they wanted, and to be free to join any faction they wanted. They could also use a class template if they wished or alternatively, pick their own skills and still be free to develop other if they choose. All of this is good sandboxy type game design, allowing players freedom to play where and how they want.

 

The PvP could still be tied to those factions, it could still be a 3 faction RvR system. The big difference is that players would be free to choose if they a) want to join a faction and b) which faction to join. The current system is too much DAoC with it's 3 realms and the races etc locked in, including the PvE. I don't object to the 3 way RvR so much as the restrictions. If it was a player choice it would be more TES and less DAoC.

I think this is why you're seeing a lot of opposition to the current design, it's that lack of choice, something that was always very open in the TES games. Choices both for race/faction and class/skills and the choice to venture out and travel if you want. It's the main reason I've posted and voiced my negative opinions about the game.

if the game was to be like this I might reconsider and play it.

 

Currently bored with MMO's.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1835

4/16/13 3:58:32 PM#33
Originally posted by baphamet

if this game was a sandbox, it wouldn't be like TES single player games.

i absolutely cannot stand when people say the single player games were sandbox games, its just complete ignorance to the subject.

again, just because you can explore at will in a game and decide what quests to do in what order you want to do them, doesn't make it a sandbox game.

it still is a quest driven game at its core, which makes it not a sandbox game and more of a theme park (if you want to use those labels for single player rpg's)

there is a main quest that you follow just like the single player games and there is also side quests that you stumble upon if you explore or talk to certain people, just like the single player games.

people assume many things with this game when we actually do not know exactly how it will be.

yet act like TES games were these sandbox games where you could build most of the content of the game void of any kind of questing element, which is standard in any sandbox game.

TES single player games did have some sandbox elements to them, just like the mmo will as well.

so honestly, i don't know what many of you expect, other than faction lock and being able to explore the entire world from level 1, what sandbox elements do you expect TESO to not have that the single player games did?

 

When I play TES games, I don't necessarily do the quests. I'll do some if they're good, and I'll follow the main storyline, but having OPTIONAL content does not take away from the sandbox elements. TES series are sandbox games. Most players think so and professional journalist (also game enthusiasts) think so. You don't get xp for completing a quest in TES series. You just get an item (maybe) and a bit of money. Most of your leveling is done through exploration of the game world and delving dungeons.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/16/13 4:03:16 PM#34

I dont know of many people asking for a "sandbox only" game.

We want a game with a sandbox BASE design, with some themepark.

Not a themepark design with some sandbox.

The difference between the two is very simple. A sandbox base design creates a LARGE open game with a great many possible gaming options, a themepark game like this one creates a very small game with a great deal of limitations.

Its sandbox vs small box. In a sandbox you can have everything from the small box without the limitations of it...the reverse cannot be said.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1835

4/16/13 4:04:44 PM#35
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Kinchyle
Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.

 

Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world.

As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D

Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.


 

TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game.

in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players.

that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox.

could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike).

does that answer your first question?

as far as pvp goes, i am in the same boat. i loved Daoc pvp but its hard to say how long the pvp will keep me interested in TESO.

if there is no way to advance your character like you could in Daoc (realm points) then i would assume it wont last long for me.

i know there will be alliance points similar to realm points but i am concerned that it will just be cosmetic upgrades or other things that don't actually advance your character.

that was my main issue with GW2...well that and the fact that it was just a huge zerg fest and nothing more.

i like the fact that in cyrodiil, it acts as a full fledged pve zone as well.

that way people can hopefully still get the open world pvp feeling, even though it is still segregated from the rest of the world.

the area will be huge as well.

 

Dude, you're really full of shit. Come on now, how long have you been playing video games? No doubt, it hasn't been nearly as long as those of us who've been playing for decades and was around when the term sandbox was coined. You sound like you're taking a definition of it that was used well after the term was coined and twisting it from a purist sandbox POV. 

UO, Saga of Ryzom, Fallout seris, TES series, Farcry series, Shadowbane, and I can go on and on. They're all considered sandboxes. 

As for TES series, the majority of gameplay in TES is dependant on you. Meaning it's all about exploring the world and delving dungeons, not doing quests and following the main storyline. Hell, you don't even level up from doing any of the quests. They're completely optional. 

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

4/16/13 4:06:51 PM#36

I would rather the game be Skyrim or Morrowind Online (Oblivian wasnt as good IMO) with some of the features that wouldn't work culled from the MMO.  Things like Stealing from PC's (NPC's are safe to be stolen from) or Killing other NPC's wouldnt work in an MMO.  However there are things that would like:

 

Open PvP with full looting because the crime system is already in place, would just need to buff it and the town guards some.  Open World Housing, but placed in and around the cities of Tamriel.  Real Estate would be valuable and not everyone could own a house, but someone could take over a shack or mining point and make it their home, till some brave adventurer decided to take it from you.

 

However as it stands, I will play TESO but I have no allusions to it being anything other then "3 monther". 

SUP

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/16/13 4:11:07 PM#37
Originally posted by Kyelthis

Second Life and EVE Online are 2 large sandbox MMOs, probably the 2 most populated at any rate. Sandboxes, although there have been many released, just never seem to hold a steady or healthy population compared to themeparks. 

You act as if they are all equal.

From 1997 to 2004

Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Lineage were sandbox games and all three of them had more players than Dark Age of Camelot the very themepark this game is based off of...another sandbox, EverQuest also had more. Asherons Call and Anarchy Online were sandbox games, yet had fewer players than DaoC...yet City of heroes was a themepark and had a very low population.

All games are not equal, and TES is based off a themepark that FEW themepark players know, or like. They are used to games like WoW and Rift where even though there are factions, they can go anywhere in the world with those factions, including the other factions lands...and then there is the being funneled into the center of the world for PvP BS.

Sorry, but this is SWTOR #2. Many of the IPs fans will buy it and then quit when they realized they got suckered into buying because of the name...then the corporation running the show will not see the promised numbers, fire a ton of developers and the game will see a downward slide.

If you take on an IP, you are asking for more and more hurt with every change from the original you make.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7699

Logic be damned!

4/16/13 4:13:44 PM#38

Hard to be immersed in a game when you're going to have naked Elves dancing on top of mailboxes...

You know what is funny about MMOs versus a single player RPG like Skyrim?

How stupid does it look that when you go into town, all the players are running around every which way (often on mounts) and no one is walking?

Most of the NPCs just stand there too.

At least in single player RPG, if I'm running through town all the NPCs are walking or mulling about more realistically.

Always a huge pet peeve of mine...

I'd love to see a MMO force players to walk while in town else they draw lots of negative attention from guards.

But also have horses and run speed out in the world realistically fast.

I'm pretty sure a horse can gallop a hell of lot faster than a 100% increase to my speed (twice as fast).

 

Now Playing:
Looking Towards: Destiny

  cura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 864

4/16/13 4:15:42 PM#39
I would like a sandbox mmoRPG with FFA PVP  with _very_ harsh punishement system.
  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/16/13 4:45:31 PM#40
Originally posted by BadSpock

Hard to be immersed in a game when you're going to have naked Elves dancing on top of mailboxes...

Thats why they changed the elves from Alienesque to a typical beautiful...so you can drool over them.

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