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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » They turned a great sandbox genre into a Themepark.

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171 posts found
  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11494

4/05/13 10:54:01 AM#61
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I guess I just don't understand, maybe its beyond me to understand. Making an MMO based off of The Edler Scrolls should be a sure thing as long as they at least stay true to the spirit of the IP.

I don't understand taking such a gamble as this. To me it would seem harder to sale DAoC to Elder Scroll fans than to sale an Elder Scrolls game. 

at least some incarnation is being made

 

 a few years ago - remember this?

Todd Howard not interested in Elder Scrolls MMO

 

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/05/13 10:57:11 AM#62
Originally posted by Squeak69

that is not a answer it is a long winded sarcasm,

a sand box game is a game that you can build withen, very loose definition but non the less the core of it, people do argue on the definition but meh, i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one) ( if you dont agree with my definition, meh like i said its a very argued subject.)

so in short your sacasm didnt offer any actual useful input, and in my personel definition of a sandbox TES has never been one.

In other words you have chosen your own definition of the word sandbox and will throw out anything placed in front of you because its a flexable one that will change with the wind.

Congrats. You also completely ignored what I ended with... and im sure we all know why.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  User Deleted
4/05/13 11:01:21 AM#63
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by amalmer1
TES are not sandbox games.  Minecraft is a sandbox game.  As far as complaining about the changing of crafting, while you can make awesome stuff in Skyrim, there is nothing exciting about the crafting system.  Targeting is probably to help with lag.  Not everything about a MMO can be exactly like a single player game.  If you have skyrim on PC the mod community will hopefully be able to keep you happy until the next single player game comes out.

Compare Daggerfall to other games back then when it was released ,it was grazy sandbox back then,same goes to Morrowind ,Oblivion not that much ,Skyrim ,compared to ohers is another sandbox.

now,first online ES,in my books it should continue same tradition,it should be more sandboxy than Skyrim or daggerfall and more sandboxy than nobody ever seen before in online gaming.

but how it seems to be right now,when reading about their ideas,its going to be ripped online game ,without even features that were introduced 10 years ago,

 

then it still would not be true to the TES games, but i get the impression that unless it plays exactly like TES games always have then people wont be happy. which i still dont think would have transfered well to a MMO game.

also what exactly was sandboxy about daggerfall????

i really wish people would stop confuseing open world with sandbox, heck the term sandbox didnt even exist back when daggerfall came out, not to mention arena, which wasnt even a true open world game.

That is the problem in here,after few years even minecraft is last season and not so sandboxy anymore.

there will be features in games that we cant now even imagine right now,just like Daggerfall did back then.

huge world to explore back then was amazing thing,im not going to fine details but it was grazy like Captive or even Elite.

 

daggerfall kind of cheated, it wasnt pregenerated open world it had a grid num system that had dungeon entrance and towns, everything else was randomly generated, in the open world, same with dungeon exept for a few certain ones they where mostly randomly generated, this is why it was one of the first games of its generation to have a open world the way it did, not that it was bad it just cheated :p.

also to this day it was the only TES game that let you go to everypart of the empire.

well until TESO comes out.

P.S. i still play on a minecraft server and luv it

P.S.S. dagger fall was also the last game you could become a wereboar in, i kinda miss that.

Hee so did Captive *cheat* theres no man in this universe who could create that kind of worlds if not using random generators.

And i would like to see those kind of tools used in TESO,maybe little a bit of Minecraft also,and this and that.

PS. I like it,no other game where you can see ,grand fathers,veterans,tiny fire extinguishers ,grand mothers or or or playing together and laughing and hissing because they have so much fun together.

 

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/05/13 11:02:58 AM#64
Originally posted by latentPotential
Doing 3 faction pvp right has been the envy of mmo devs since daoc was released, the details of the game are irrelevant.  What is also irrelevant is your ultranationalist-style loyalty to whatever game you percieve as "best", I also really don't care. 

All devs envy my favorite game even though nobody ever even tried to copy it and BTW, you, you are crazy loyal to your favorite game...

 

yep...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Eol-

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 274

4/05/13 11:10:48 AM#65

This idea that TESO is just DAoC2 is just ridiculous. There are many differences. The main similarity is the endgame, with 3 alliances battling in a PvP zone. But that doesnt make it DAoC2, it just makes it an AvA endgame. I mean, if they didnt have much PvP but instead had a raid-focused endgame with high end gear which in turn allowed you to do even harder raids, would that make it WoW2? Because that is what this logic is implying.

For example a cornerstone of DAoC was the different classes across the 3 realms, which TES is doing away with entirely by giving all three alliances the same class options. And those 'class' options will be more open-ended than pretty much any mainstream MMORPG.

TESO is less DAoC2 than it is the anti-WoW, in that it will not have raids or arena PvP as the primary focus of the endgame. Also, TES is the anti-wow in that it will have a minimal quickbar, without tons of skills spread all across your screen. Instead the focus will be on how and when you use those skills to gain an advantage over your enemies. It will be a lot less choreographed (skill rotations and raid roles) and a lot more individual-skill based.

I really like what I see from TESO and I think people are making a big mistake trying to pigeonhole it as DAoC2. It has elements of MMORPGS and it also has many elements of TES.  Yes the endgame is similar to DAoC but its beyond me why that isnt a good thing, because if you want a raid-based endgame, well there are plenty of MMORPGs that have that. Isnt it nice to have a choice? And if you wanted TES the MMORPG, well understand that there is no way any game will can be a MMORPG and still be just like TES. TES is great as a single player game but would be incredibly unbalanced as a MMORPG and with hundreds of people running around, the feel of the game would be entirely different. If you want TES play TES and if you want a MMORPG plan a MMORPG. They are trying to blend aspects of TES with aspects of MMORPGs and thats the best they can do.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3479

4/05/13 11:12:10 AM#66
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Squeak69

that is not a answer it is a long winded sarcasm,

a sand box game is a game that you can build withen, very loose definition but non the less the core of it, people do argue on the definition but meh, i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one) ( if you dont agree with my definition, meh like i said its a very argued subject.)

so in short your sacasm didnt offer any actual useful input, and in my personel definition of a sandbox TES has never been one.

In other words you have chosen your own definition of the word sandbox and will throw out anything placed in front of you because its a flexable one that will change with the wind.

Congrats. You also completely ignored what I ended with... and im sure we all know why.

Just google "MMO sandbox definition" It takes 10 min of reading to see TES was never a sandbox game. Players need a level of controle of a few things to be sandbox. The world, the story, their class and free form crafting. Some games will take sandbox ideas like housing but not the rest of what makes a PURE sandbox game. So TES had pure freedom to class, does that make it a sandbox game? No more then putting oregano in some eggs makes it an Italian dish. What % of sandbox would make a game a sandbox game? I am not a fan of sandbox games myself but I do like some Sandbox elelments and I like a game to be 80% themepark and 20% sandbox. What would you call that, themepark or sandbox? Well IMO because its mostly themepark its a themepark game. Thats where TES sits, mostly themepark. 

  Eol-

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 274

4/05/13 11:31:37 AM#67
ESO isnt a pure sandbox game, but it certainly isnt a themepark game. By definition any game that focuses on AvA as an endgame cant be themepark, because the players themselves will shape that content in a way that they do not shape scripted quests in a themepark. It is beyond me why people on MMORPG insist on pigeonholing every game, rather than look at the game for how its different and how its similar to other games.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3479

4/05/13 11:42:48 AM#68
Originally posted by Eol-
ESO isnt a pure sandbox game, but it certainly isnt a themepark game. By definition any game that focuses on AvA as an endgame cant be themepark, because the players themselves will shape that content in a way that they do not shape scripted quests in a themepark. It is beyond me why people on MMORPG insist on pigeonholing every game, rather than look at the game for how its different and how its similar to other games.

AvA is themepark PvP lol. Sandbox PvP would mean we get to set the objectives, players would build the keeps and castle that got built. Loot would come from looting players. AvA tells us what to kill to get X reward. ESO is mostly themepark. Get one thing, to be sandbox players need to have some level of controle on the world and shape it to what they want. Only thing in ESO you can do that is classes, just like the root the game came from TES.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

4/05/13 11:53:38 AM#69
Originally posted by Squeak69
i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one)

LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3479

4/05/13 12:06:56 PM#70
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Squeak69
i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one)

LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.

Kills me how many people have no clue what makes a game themepark or sandbox. Also this common thought that themepark = bad. I think its time we stopped looking at games with large labels like this and look at features we enjoy. Take player housing from sandbox games, add themepark questing but sandbox exploring but reward me for doing so like a themepark game. Wait... thats what games like ESO and Wildstar are doing. Taking the best from Sandbox and themepark to create what they want. We as gamers need to encorage the devs to add the features we like from each game type over yelling themepark sucks and sandbox is awesome. Like for me, I really want player housing in ESO.

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

4/05/13 12:17:02 PM#71

As far as end game goes, the only similarity it has with DAOC is that is has a three faction conflct.  Even the way it works is different.  In DAOC, each faction had it's own frontier zone (Or battle zone).  In TESO, it is all one large area.  DAOC's conflict was server wide, where TESO is split into tons of campaigns on a megaserver with a large amount of instancing and phasing.    DAOC had the famous milegates and keep capturing was fairly linear.  It appears in TESO that you can go just about anywhere and capture anything.  I'm willing to bet that in TESO, there will be not 'relic' capturing like in DAOC.  In TESO it will be three factions fighting over an entire city.  Rather than opening up 'Darkness Falls' by holding three relics, you will have to hold Imperial City, which will likely open up it's own quests and dungeons within the walls.  

 

Is that enough of a difference to back some of you haters off?  The only similarity, again, is the fact that there is a three faction conflict.

  Hrotha

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 840

4/05/13 12:19:06 PM#72
Originally posted by Topherpunch

I am a fan od Elder Scroll, so much that I must protest this game.  I am just going to post all the bad things that I think are very bad ideas. This is not a troll, just a "concerned gamers bad idea, thoughts" post....

Having one PvP area. While I know it is huge I just think putting players in a particular place to PvP is just silly.

One mega server, this is good if you were playing a game like EvE or Darkfall where there are no instaces.

Gaining skills and spells..... Not cool

Targeting..... Why are they ruining the FPS style?

Not able to join other faction area's until you reach maxed level (This could be a rumor) Why?

What did you do to the old crafting system from Elder Scrolls? What is wrong with combining regular items to make weird combines?

Zenimax.....

The root of all evil.....money. Why is Bethesda giving into corporate walkways? You could have created something amazing.

These are just some things I think they really messed up on. Personally I wish they would stop what they are doing and remake. Theme park is dead. I know some people really like themepark games, but  (this is an assumtion) I really think that is because they have not been given anything else. If Skyrim was an MMORPG with hundreds of people running around doing what they want and killing who they wanted...... There would be only one.

Bet you will buy the game anyway, because -again like so many times in the past- you are so bored when the game comes out, that you need to have it. Regardless.

You all who rant here will buy the game anyway. Mindlessly consuming is a trend. Otherwise you wouldnt even waste energy posting on such topics. You loooove drama, you loove to see yourself fail - but do you really want to change something? Yes, you want - but between having the desire and actually Making decisions lies a vast canyon.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2743

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/05/13 12:19:52 PM#73
Originally posted by Normandy7
I will not be buying this because this is hardly what an Elder Scrolls game should be. This is something just to milk a popular ip. No thanks I'll keep playing Skyrim and waiting for Bethesda's next installment of Elder Scrolls.

Spoken like someone who is supporting CU and all its popular IP milking glory.  Seen the CU kickstarter sig and knew immediately anything you had to say was biased and opinionated.

 

While I am extremely happy to see the ESO come to fruition I am not without apprehension.  Still though, there are enough sandbox elements in the game that make me happy and I would trust Matt Firor to make a great RvR games a million times before I would trust Marc Jacobs.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2743

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/05/13 12:24:13 PM#74
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Squeak69
i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one)

LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.

Kills me how many people have no clue what makes a game themepark or sandbox. Also this common thought that themepark = bad. I think its time we stopped looking at games with large labels like this and look at features we enjoy. Take player housing from sandbox games, add themepark questing but sandbox exploring but reward me for doing so like a themepark game. Wait... thats what games like ESO and Wildstar are doing. Taking the best from Sandbox and themepark to create what they want. We as gamers need to encorage the devs to add the features we like from each game type over yelling themepark sucks and sandbox is awesome. Like for me, I really want player housing in ESO.

Exactly right, hybrids are the future of MMO gaming.  Add the fun of a themepark and remove the chafe of the sandbox and you have a good game.

 

I do not think you need to encourage Devs t odo this though, its pretty common knowledge now, especially considerign the success of GW2.  Now that Devs have finally saw fit to throw of the yokes of the WoW Clone and try to innovate they see that successful hybridization is the way to go.....with us or without us so no need to encourage them, cause they know!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Yyrkoon_PoM

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 150

4/05/13 12:46:02 PM#75
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Squeak69
i personaly do not agree that game you can have a player based economy in makes a game a sandbox, ( otherwise WoW would count as one)

LMAO, WoW, a player based economy. A game where you can get the best of everything without making a single purchase.

Kills me how many people have no clue what makes a game themepark or sandbox. Also this common thought that themepark = bad. I think its time we stopped looking at games with large labels like this and look at features we enjoy. Take player housing from sandbox games, add themepark questing but sandbox exploring but reward me for doing so like a themepark game. Wait... thats what games like ESO and Wildstar are doing. Taking the best from Sandbox and themepark to create what they want. We as gamers need to encorage the devs to add the features we like from each game type over yelling themepark sucks and sandbox is awesome. Like for me, I really want player housing in ESO.

Exactly right, hybrids are the future of MMO gaming.  Add the fun of a themepark and remove the chafe of the sandbox and you have a good game.

 

I do not think you need to encourage Devs t odo this though, its pretty common knowledge now, especially considerign the success of GW2.  Now that Devs have finally saw fit to throw of the yokes of the WoW Clone and try to innovate they see that successful hybridization is the way to go.....with us or without us so no need to encourage them, cause they know!

I agree with this for the most part. I would like to add that it could be argued that the first bad game design decision would be to limit the game by forcing it's direction towards one or the other style of gameplay. Why play a limited game with a limited design concept.

 

I think as others have stated MMOS need to move past the black vs. white or the democrats vs. republicans mentality, and move towards games that are simply fun to play. I don't care if a game is sandbox or themepark ... if it is not fun to me why should I want to spend time playing it? The same philosophy needs to apply to the pricing model. A bad game is a bad game, whether it is f2p, p2p, b2p, or p2w is irrelevant at that point.  Now I know the word "fun" is a subjective word and I intentionally use it as video games are a personal choice and since we are all individuals we tend to like or dislike different things. People may hate your favorite game, and that is a great thing as long as each enjoy the games we are playing.  I would love to see people talk about game mechanics or game systems without resorting to pejoratives when talking about other people or different opinions.

 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3479

4/05/13 12:54:02 PM#76
Originally posted by Normandy7
I will not be buying this because this is hardly what an Elder Scrolls game should be. This is something just to milk a popular ip. No thanks I'll keep playing Skyrim and waiting for Bethesda's next installment of Elder Scrolls.

With your sig its clear why you are knocking ESO. My guess is in the next 1-2 years people are going to look back at this kickstarter generation of games and wonder how they fell for giving hundrids and sometimes thousands of bucks to help make a game they should have paid no more then 60 bucks for. 

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

4/05/13 12:58:31 PM#77
I think the OP is being far too nitpicky too early. You want to see a guaranteed ruined series, play some Neverwinter. TESO is nowhere near that stage of fail........................yet.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3809

4/05/13 1:07:46 PM#78
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Normandy7
I will not be buying this because this is hardly what an Elder Scrolls game should be. This is something just to milk a popular ip. No thanks I'll keep playing Skyrim and waiting for Bethesda's next installment of Elder Scrolls.

With your sig its clear why you are knocking ESO. My guess is in the next 1-2 years people are going to look back at this kickstarter generation of games and wonder how they fell for giving hundrids and sometimes thousands of bucks to help make a game they should have paid no more then 60 bucks for. 

You're assuming mental wellness will break out in North America and specifically in the MMO gaming community. A noble thought but unrealistic.

Over at the Mark Jacobs panhandling forum, they are all rushing to show their commitment (or is it commitability?) by outdoing each other with their pledges.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

4/05/13 1:13:36 PM#79

heh gotta love the MMORPG.com forum PVP best MMO pvp game there is.

Screw 3 faction warfare here you have multiple game cults evangelizing and demonizing each game set for release and each other.The only real casualties in these wars though...reason and courteousy.

  User Deleted
4/05/13 1:15:22 PM#80
Originally posted by Drakynn

heh gotta love the MMORPG.com forum PVP best MMO pvp game there is.

Screw 3 faction warfare here you have multiple game cults evangelizing and demonizing each game set for release and each other.The only real casualties in these wars though...reason and courteousy.

 

Reason and Courteousy were n00bs. They deserved to die...

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