Trending Games | WildStar | Elder Scrolls Online | Guild Wars 2 | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,642,031 Users Online:0
Games:681  Posts:6,076,169
Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
Distribution: | Retail Price:$59.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
System Req: PC Mac Playstation 4 Xbox One | Out of date info? Let us know!

Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Will the real ESO please stand-up?

13 Pages First « 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 » Last Search
252 posts found
  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 1:30:37 AM#161
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

It is a logical fallacy to say people who are for FPV are in the minority.  You are dismissing someone's view as irrelevant and therefore it is illogical.

No its not. You can play in fpv in WoW too, are you really going to attempt to state that 51% of the Wow playerbase plays in first person? Of course not, that would be a retarded statment to make. Fov offers too much of an advantage to overcome versus the "fun" you get for being in first person. You see a similar trend with Keyboard vs mouse turning, though the additional bit of performance is sometimes not enough to overcome the cost of relearning the new system, though even that is changing and has been for awhile.

I'm certainly not going to aruge that most people play TPV in a game that hasn't even been released yet.  I disagree that there is a huge disadvantage to FPV but still many can use it in open world PvE.  There are going to be many people coming from TES games that do not care about PvP and may prefer to play in that view.

We do NOT know the numbers but they was high enough to convince the developers to change a multimillion dollar game.  That's a fact.

 

Why would they have to rebalance abilities for that, it doesn't make sense.
 

The strength of abilities is directly linked to how much utility they have. For example there was a period during vanilla Wow when mages kept rank 1 arcane explosion on their bar as it gave them an easy low cost way to get rogues and cats out of stealth. That level 1 spell became so powerful that Blizzard had to go out of their way to nerf it. If for example one was stuck in a fpv then the aoe nature of it would be no where near as good unless you sat in a single place spinning and spamming, which is a very different utilization.

That's reaching hard.  I don't know how the developers balance abilities but I'm almost certain NONE of them has to be changed because of FOV.

 

What are you even talking about.  You try to insult me and then meander off topic.  What experience do you have in marketing to claim that a company spending millions of dollars relies only on a 'gut feeling'?  I understand that many ideas are wildcards but when developing those ideas you refer to the numbers.  Marketing is all about gathering these numbers and appealing to as many people as possible within the target audience.

No attempt nor intent to insult. You admitted that you are woefully ignorant, and to be honest you are.

What the fuck is this shit?  You are full of yourself if you think I'm gonna read your response after addressing me like that.

I'm sorry but you are trying way too hard for a simple discussion.  I said that we do not know who is in the majority and by saying that you are being illogical.  Try to trim down your responses some, use paragraphs and stay on topic.  I am not here for you to get your jollies off arguing nonsensical rubbish.

Whatever view gives you the biggest advantage for the lowest cost will be the one used. Plain and simple. That has been third person for the last decade. Saying otherwise is a fools errend.

Have you never played an Elder Scrolls game before?  You do not even take into account how many of those games have both options, that was a general statement that barely had meaning on anything we're discussing.  We are talking about how many people will use FPV, not what activities they use it with.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 1:31:54 AM#162
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Sovrath

Just as DAoC players are expectign a full fledged 3 faction experience. If DAoC 2 was being made and they made it ffa pvp instead of 3 faction, do you think for a minute that DAoC players wouldn't have something to say about it?

ROFL! +1

Face meets mirror.

 

And mirror reflects an inferior cobbled together mess in both a ffa DAoC and a TES lobby game. You do know you want a TES lobby don't you?

But you say that based on what? No one has ever said they wanted a TES lobby game.

Really? Group with whomever from whichever faction and do dungeons and raids with them. Then go to the PvP instance and fight against them. Sounds like 2 totally different and incongrous games to me. That's what a lobby game is: a gateway to different games...it's Richard Garriot's new thing even...the way of the future donchaknow :)

Standing in Stormwind (or Dalaran or wherever) and Q'ing in different matchmaking services is the WOW lobby way...but that's not required. Just piecing together different chunks without a lot of thought for the whole thing is what defines a lobby game.

Grouping with different races has nothing to do with a lobby game.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 1:37:37 AM#163
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

What makes you think everyone considers TPV the "path of least resistence" ~ What if they have plans to make FPV-only Cyrodiil Campaigns?  Some people may consider FPV more fun than TPV.  Nonetheless it's still an assumption and using a phrase like "small minority" is illogical.  There was a large enough group that asked for FPV, thereforth it is added into the game.

Out of curiosity were you using "illogical" ironically? Cause if not you should check the definition cause yeah...

Anyway, even with ignoring the "what if" you decided to toss in there the number of times experiments like you propose have actually been wildly popular are extremely few and far between. Even then they require a non deviance from the ruleset. Things like the perma death server for Aoc for example. The reason they won't do things like that is because fov matters in terms of balance. They will not rebalance 400+ abilities for that sort of pvp experience. Fov matters.

It is a logical fallacy to say people who are for FPV are in the minority.  You are dismissing someone's view as irrelevant and therefore it is illogical.

Why would they have to rebalance abilities for that, it doesn't make sense.

That is not a logical fallacy. 

Past trends can easily be used to predict future trends.  Past trends clearly show us players take the path of least resistance, and they won't use the FPV.

If you have an opposing opinion, but offer no evidence, then your opinion can be rightfully dismissed.

Logical Fallacy - a fallacy in logical argumentation
Fallacy - a misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/logical+fallacy

You are assuming that not many people will play in FPV because TPV has a sight advantage.  I rebute by saying we do not know the minority.  People may play TPV in PvP or dungeons but there will be many people who uses FPV.

If you are using past trends to predict future ones, then wouldn't Skyrim and Oblivion be proof that many people play in FPV (or at least a little of both).  I do not accept that TPV is the path of least resistance, it does have a sight advantage but there are many fine attributes of FPV.

I am not claiming that FPV is in the majority, but saying we simply do not know.  You offer no evidence otherwise so I rightfully dismiss you.

Small advantage? Which MMOs have you ever played in FPV primarily? How did you do in groups? PvP?

Speking of logical fallacies...Faulty Causation...look it up lol.

Yes, small advantage.  When in FPV you look around a lot, I know where enemies are even if I don't see them.  You'd be surprised at the difference but again most MMOs that have a proper FPV use it primarily.  I had no problems in Darkfall with PvP, I have no problem in FPS in PVP or groups (even ones that have melee systems).

Personally I do not think there is a huge disavantage in FPV. 

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 1:42:20 AM#164
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

What makes you think everyone considers TPV the "path of least resistence" ~ What if they have plans to make FPV-only Cyrodiil Campaigns?  Some people may consider FPV more fun than TPV.  Nonetheless it's still an assumption and using a phrase like "small minority" is illogical.  There was a large enough group that asked for FPV, thereforth it is added into the game.

Out of curiosity were you using "illogical" ironically? Cause if not you should check the definition cause yeah...

Anyway, even with ignoring the "what if" you decided to toss in there the number of times experiments like you propose have actually been wildly popular are extremely few and far between. Even then they require a non deviance from the ruleset. Things like the perma death server for Aoc for example. The reason they won't do things like that is because fov matters in terms of balance. They will not rebalance 400+ abilities for that sort of pvp experience. Fov matters.

It is a logical fallacy to say people who are for FPV are in the minority.  You are dismissing someone's view as irrelevant and therefore it is illogical.

Why would they have to rebalance abilities for that, it doesn't make sense.

That is not a logical fallacy. 

Past trends can easily be used to predict future trends.  Past trends clearly show us players take the path of least resistance, and they won't use the FPV.

If you have an opposing opinion, but offer no evidence, then your opinion can be rightfully dismissed.

Logical Fallacy - a fallacy in logical argumentation
Fallacy - a misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/logical+fallacy

You are assuming that not many people will play in FPV because TPV has a sight advantage.  I rebute by saying we do not know the minority.  People may play TPV in PvP or dungeons but there will be many people who uses FPV.

If you are using past trends to predict future ones, then wouldn't Skyrim and Oblivion be proof that many people play in FPV (or at least a little of both).  I do not accept that TPV is the path of least resistance, it does have a sight advantage but there are many fine attributes of FPV.

I am not claiming that FPV is in the majority, but saying we simply do not know.  You offer no evidence otherwise so I rightfully dismiss you.

Actually there is a buttload of reasons I gave earlier, but the most prevalent one is that it is a HUGE advantage.  Not a slight advantage, a HUGE advantage.

So you actually believe that past events have no bearing on future events, and we can't use past events to predict furture events?   I think investors would like to have a word with you about that....

Thats almost like saying cause and effect don't exist.

This is not a logical fallacy.  Which logical fallacy does this apply to exactly?

The degree of the advantage is personal opinion.  You can not claim that because TPV has an advantage that everyone will use it.

Money talks and it just said add FPV.  I don't know if it was the investors but I'd love to have a word with them as well.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx here, look it up yourself.

  elohssa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 41

3/31/13 1:53:16 AM#165
Originally posted by sapphen

Yes, small advantage.  When in FPV you look around a lot, I know where enemies are even if I don't see them.  You'd be surprised at the difference but again most MMOs that have a proper FPV use it primarily.  I had no problems in Darkfall with PvP, I have no problem in FPS in PVP or groups (even ones that have melee systems).

Personally I do not think there is a huge disavantage in FPV. 

WTF is a proper FPV?  The picture of your hands floating around?  That has no bearing on gameplay...

 

 

Originally posted by sapphen

The degree of the advantage is personal opinion.  You can not claim that because TPV has an advantage that everyone will use it.

Money talks and it just said add FPV.  I don't know if it was the investors but I'd love to have a word with them as well.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx here, look it up yourself.

I already explained why they added it.  To appeal to a huge audience.  It has nothing to do with players using it.

You just keep spouting the same garbage.  How about telling me which logical fallacy we are guilty of?

The link, and the fact you had to look up the definition before clearly indicates to me that you don't know anything about philosophy and logical reasoning.

 

You completely dismissed my trend comment also...

Trend following is an investment strategy based on the technical analysis of market prices.

 

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 1:59:05 AM#166
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen

Yes, small advantage.  When in FPV you look around a lot, I know where enemies are even if I don't see them.  You'd be surprised at the difference but again most MMOs that have a proper FPV use it primarily.  I had no problems in Darkfall with PvP, I have no problem in FPS in PVP or groups (even ones that have melee systems).

Personally I do not think there is a huge disavantage in FPV. 

WTF is a proper FPV?  The picture of your hands floating around?  That has no bearing on gameplay...

You guys act like you're a complete retard in FPV.  Many games use it and "have enemies appear behind them".  It isn't that big of a disadvantage.

Having arms and weapons is everything to gameplay, have you tried playing a FPS that does not have some sort of body UI?  You have to see what you're hitting, it just doesn't feel natural without seeing what you're doing from that perspective.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 2:02:11 AM#167
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen

The degree of the advantage is personal opinion.  You can not claim that because TPV has an advantage that everyone will use it.

Money talks and it just said add FPV.  I don't know if it was the investors but I'd love to have a word with them as well.

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx here, look it up yourself.

I already explained why they added it.  To appeal to a huge audience.  It has nothing to do with players using it.

You just keep spouting the same garbage.  How about telling me which logical fallacy we are guilty of?

The link, and the fact you had to look up the definition before clearly indicates to me that you don't know anything about philosophy and logical reasoning.

You completely dismissed my trend comment also...

Trend following is an investment strategy based on the technical analysis of market prices

To appeal to a huge audience yet you say FPV is the minority?

I didn't have to look it up until someone questioned the defination of logical fallacy, then I linked it.

I responded to your trend comment by saying that ALL TES games uses FPV primary.  This is not some generic MMO but a well establish franchise that is charactized by it's first person view.

  elohssa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 41

3/31/13 2:16:54 AM#168

I have already proven to you that you can use past events to predict futurue events.  This is the basis of all human knowledge.  Cause and Effect. 

 

Apparently you disagree with this somehow though....so I went to get you some numbers, and this is what I got.  A horde of people crying because they were stuck in first person view.  I think that is very telling, no.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=first+person+view+warcraft&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

 

Here is a poll showing that only 57% of players perfer FPV all the time,

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.328614-Poll-First-or-Third-person-view-in-Skyrim?page=4

 

Here is another with only 40%

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1653017

 

Here is another at 43%

http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/139838-what-do-you-prefer-first-person-third-person-3.html

 

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 2:26:01 AM#169
Originally posted by elohssa

I have already proven to you that you can use past events to predict futurue events.  This is the basis of all human knowledge.  Cause and Effect. 

Apparently you disagree with this somehow though....so I went to get you some numbers, and this is what I got.  A horde of people crying because they were stuck in first person view.  I think that is very telling, no.

https://www.google.com/search?q=first+person+view+warcraft&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Here is a poll showing that only 57% of players perfer FPV all the time,

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.328614-Poll-First-or-Third-person-view-in-Skyrim?page=4

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Originally posted by elohssa

Here is another with only 40%

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1653017

In that one only 10% used it in TPV only.  The other 90% used FPV.

Here is another at 43%

http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/139838-what-do-you-prefer-first-person-third-person-3.html

Again only 17% used TPV only.

Considering that this IS a TES game, do these numbers not provide reasonable doubt that FPV will be in the minority?

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/31/13 2:55:35 AM#170
Originally posted by sapphen

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

WoW is a much better judge because its a better measurement of the playerbase. None of those polls are even semi close to reasonable because they are not representative of the playerbase. Besides which how many of those are on modded games? The Tes series has never been lauded for its combat, in fact its generally seen to be successful in spite of it. Especially when you have games like The Witcher to compare it against so clearly. As for me personally, I only go into first person in dungeons when I know my rear is clear and my view is already blocked. But then I also use SkyRe, ASIS, Tk dodge, Tk hitstop, and a slew of others like Immersive Patrols and OBIS. All told I am near 500 mods at this point.

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Of course that prediction would not follow because the playerbase has shown it to be wildly inaccurate. There is a reason why people will change their playstyle and grind rep for 20 hours for a specific reward than spend that same 20 hours running dungeons for something similar. The path of least resistance is a viable trend, with the number actively breaking it being very few. Its the very same reason why in 3 faction games the 2 smaller factions do not team up against the largest, the middle one eats the lower before they in turn get eaten. Its "get mine while I can". And yes, using past outcomes to predict the future is logically recognized as truth, as that is what theory and law is based on. In fact even the very definition of logic is incumbant on it.

Adjective

  1. Of or according to the rules of logic or formal argument: "a logical impossibility".
  2. Characterized by clear, sound reasoning.
Synonyms

rational - logic - reasonable - consistent - tenable

[mod edit]

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 3:06:56 AM#171
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

WoW is a much better judge because its a better measurement of the playerbase. None of those polls are even semi close to reasonable because they are not representative of the playerbase.

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

 

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Of course that prediction would not follow because the playerbase has shown it to be wildly inaccurate. There is a reason why people will change their playstyle and grind rep for 20 hours for a specific reward than spend that same 20 hours running dungeons for something similar. The path of least resistance is a viable trend, with the number actively breaking it being very few.

There is no path of least resistence here, it's having about having a slight view advantage, FPV is not even a path.  If your assessment was true then everyone would play Skyrim in third person view.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1828

3/31/13 3:09:48 AM#172
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

WoW is a much better judge because its a better measurement of the playerbase. None of those polls are even semi close to reasonable because they are not representative of the playerbase. Besides which how many of those are on modded games? The Tes series has never been lauded for its combat, in fact its generally seen to be successful in spite of it. Especially when you have games like The Witcher to compare it against so clearly. As for me personally, I only go into first person in dungeons when I know my rear is clear and my view is already blocked. But then I also use SkyRe, ASIS, Tk dodge, Tk hitstop, and a slew of others like Immersive Patrols and OBIS. All told I am near 500 mods at this point.

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Of course that prediction would not follow because the playerbase has shown it to be wildly inaccurate. There is a reason why people will change their playstyle and grind rep for 20 hours for a specific reward than spend that same 20 hours running dungeons for something similar. The path of least resistance is a viable trend, with the number actively breaking it being very few. Its the very same reason why in 3 faction games the 2 smaller factions do not team up against the largest, the middle one eats the lower before they in turn get eaten. Its "get mine while I can". And yes, using past outcomes to predict the future is logically recognized as truth, as that is what theory and law is based on. In fact even the very definition of logic is incumbant on it.

Adjective

  1. Of or according to the rules of logic or formal argument: "a logical impossibility".
  2. Characterized by clear, sound reasoning.
Synonyms

rational - logic - reasonable - consistent - tenable

Also, if you really want to argue that FOV does not give an advantage maybe you should go have a chat with evolution. Ever wonder why horses have their eyes set on the side of their head instead of forwards facing like other predators?

That isn't about the path of least resistance.  People are willing to grind rep because it nets you a guaranteed reward for your effort.  Dungeons are subject to the RNG for drops on top of the RNG when competing with group mates for said drops.  There is obviously a greater incentive to do rep grinds as a result.  Now, if devs would get a clue and allow everyone in a group to get a drop when doing dungeon runs, then you'd probably find the playing field a lot more even.  I really don't see how you can define that scenario as the path of least resistance, which implies laziness on the part of the gamers.  How is it lazy to work just as hard doing either rep grinds or dungeon grinds, but one rewards you more often than the other.  That isn't laziness, that's intelligent decision making on the player's part.

  elohssa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 41

3/31/13 3:20:13 AM#173
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

WoW is a much better judge because its a better measurement of the playerbase. None of those polls are even semi close to reasonable because they are not representative of the playerbase.

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

 

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Of course that prediction would not follow because the playerbase has shown it to be wildly inaccurate. There is a reason why people will change their playstyle and grind rep for 20 hours for a specific reward than spend that same 20 hours running dungeons for something similar. The path of least resistance is a viable trend, with the number actively breaking it being very few.

There is no path of least resistence here, it's having about having a slight view advantage, FPV is not even a path.  If your assessment was true then everyone would play Skyrim in third person view.

WOW = mmo

ESO = mmo

Skyrim=/= MMO

 

The polls I showed earlier have very small sample sizes, so the uncertainty is high, but it shows about half the skyrim playerbase doen't exlusively use FPV.  That means they will almost certainly use 3rd person view when switching to an mmo.  After even more see that its a huge advantage in 3rd person, then even more will follow.  The few hardcore ES fans who insist on 1st person will likely quit in a few months when they run out of solo PvE content, especially considering raids and pvp are extremely unfavorable to this view.

 

At launch few will play 1st person exlclusively. 

After a few months, almost no one will be using it.

 

[mod edit]
  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 3:26:23 AM#174
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

WoW is a much better judge because its a better measurement of the playerbase. None of those polls are even semi close to reasonable because they are not representative of the playerbase.

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Of course that prediction would not follow because the playerbase has shown it to be wildly inaccurate. There is a reason why people will change their playstyle and grind rep for 20 hours for a specific reward than spend that same 20 hours running dungeons for something similar. The path of least resistance is a viable trend, with the number actively breaking it being very few.

There is no path of least resistence here, it's having about having a slight view advantage, FPV is not even a path.  If your assessment was true then everyone would play Skyrim in third person view.

WOW = mmo

ESO = mmo

Skyrim=/= MMO

The polls I showed earlier have very small sample sizes, so the uncertainty is high, but it shows about half the skyrim playerbase doen't exlusively use FPV.  That means they will almost certainly use 3rd person view when switching to an mmo.  After even more see that its a huge advantage in 3rd person, then even more will follow.  The few hardcore ES fans who insist on 1st person will likely quit in a few months when they run out of solo PvE content, especially considering raids and pvp are extremely unfavorable to this view.

At launch few will play 1st person exlclusively. 

After a few months, almost no one will be using it.

I didn't say they would exclusively use FPV, only that they would use it.

With that said, I'll leave you to your personal predictions.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 4720

3/31/13 3:34:28 AM#175
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

I don't think WoW would be a good example because you can't see your hand/weapons.  I respect you feel it isn't a big deal but to me personally, it makes a huge difference.  57% of players who only use FPV in Skyrim, 88% adding people who use both, those are not a small minority.

WoW is a much better judge because its a better measurement of the playerbase. None of those polls are even semi close to reasonable because they are not representative of the playerbase.

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

Even if you use past events to predict future outcomes, it is not logically reconized as truth.  I could predict that many people would use FPV just because they like the challenge and immersion but that doesn't mean I would be correct.

Of course that prediction would not follow because the playerbase has shown it to be wildly inaccurate. There is a reason why people will change their playstyle and grind rep for 20 hours for a specific reward than spend that same 20 hours running dungeons for something similar. The path of least resistance is a viable trend, with the number actively breaking it being very few.

There is no path of least resistence here, it's having about having a slight view advantage, FPV is not even a path.  If your assessment was true then everyone would play Skyrim in third person view.

WOW = mmo

ESO = mmo

Skyrim=/= MMO

The polls I showed earlier have very small sample sizes, so the uncertainty is high, but it shows about half the skyrim playerbase doen't exlusively use FPV.  That means they will almost certainly use 3rd person view when switching to an mmo.  After even more see that its a huge advantage in 3rd person, then even more will follow.  The few hardcore ES fans who insist on 1st person will likely quit in a few months when they run out of solo PvE content, especially considering raids and pvp are extremely unfavorable to this view.

At launch few will play 1st person exlclusively. 

After a few months, almost no one will be using it.

I didn't say they would exclusively use FPV, only that they would use it.

With that said, I'll leave you to your personal predictions.

Most of the time only use 3rd person view to check out how your toon looks etc, all combat usually takes place in first person view, combat in 3rd person view is universally rubbish imo, so my prediction is that all the successful cyrodil PVP'ers will be using FPV,  with 3rd person view relegated to the odd screenshot for effect, ie. posed.. for those that use the argument that 3rd person view increases your tactical awareness, simply not true, it just helps make up for a lack of it. pretty sure anyone who has ever played games like Planetside (either version) will understand where im coming from here.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/31/13 3:35:02 AM#176
Originally posted by sapphen

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

 

Good ones? Whether you detest the route Wow has taken, to say its a bad game would be epically stupid on your part.

There is no path of least resistence here, it's having about having a slight view advantage, FPV is not even a path.  If your assessment was true then everyone would play Skyrim in third person view.

Of course there is a path of least resistance, its also called opportunity cost, I described it a couple pages back. And not quite, as Skyrim does not offer a truly 360 fov, the camera is set lower and much more behind the head even when zoomed out. I had to download a new skeleton to fix it as it was super annoying.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

That isn't about the path of least resistance.  People are willing to grind rep because it nets you a guaranteed reward for your effort.  Dungeons are subject to the RNG for drops on top of the RNG when competing with group mates for said drops.  There is obviously a greater incentive to do rep grinds as a result.  Now, if devs would get a clue and allow everyone in a group to get a drop when doing dungeon runs, then you'd probably find the playing field a lot more even.  I really don't see how you can define that scenario as the path of least resistance, which implies laziness on the part of the gamers.  How is it lazy to work just as hard doing either rep grinds or dungeon grinds, but one rewards you more often than the other.  That isn't laziness, that's intelligent decision making on the player's part.

Nope, its the lesser path to meet a specific end. Skipping the generally enjoyable experience of grouping with ones friends to go run a dungeon to instead grind away solo to get the same peice of gear. Thanks for agreeing with me though!

 

[mod edit]

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  User Deleted
3/31/13 3:36:46 AM#177
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Byrhofen

Thing is, nobody should be expecting the freedom of choice that is available in a single player RPG, to exist in an MMORPG.

So yes, reducing the choice's available is, in some ways, brilliant.

 Thing is, nobody should be expecting the freedom of choice to be removed in an MMO seeing as how MMOs are aviable that allow such a choice...just like a single player game.

So yes, reducing the choice's available is, in every way, foolish and limting.

You claiming reducing the choice's available is in every way foolish and limiting, is plain wrong.

In TES single player games, you can, if you want to, make the choice to kill every single NPC in the game, permanently.

Now, some people have voiced the opinion that TESO should be the same as singleplayer TES, in every way, even though it is an MMO.

How cool would it be, if once you finished creating your character, you venture out into the world, and find no NPCs at all, because everyone that was faster than you at creating a character, decided it would be fun to kill every NPC they came across, just like they did when they played singleplayer TES.....

There are valid reason's for design decisions that limit the choices players can make, if you cannot see that, or do not like that, fine, leave TESO alone, go play something else.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 3:42:13 AM#178
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by sapphen

What kind of game are you wanting that WoW would be a better measurement of the playerbase than an actual Elder Scrolls game?

Good ones? Whether you detest the route Wow has taken, to say its a bad game would be epically stupid on your part.

I didn't say it was a bad game, only that TES should be a more suitable measurement than WoW.  ESO may be a MMO but it is also a TES game.  WoW doesn't even have a proper FPV.

 

There is no path of least resistence here, it's having about having a slight view advantage, FPV is not even a path.  If your assessment was true then everyone would play Skyrim in third person view.

Of course there is a path of least resistance, its also called opportunity cost, I described it a couple pages back. And not quite, as Skyrim does not offer a truly 360 fov, the camera is set lower and much more behind the head even when zoomed out. I had to download a new skeleton to fix it as it was super annoying.

It is not a path though, it's a preference.  It shouldn't matter if Skyrim offerened a complete 360 FOV, it still has a field advantage over the FPV.

 

[mod edit]

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 3:52:16 AM#179
Originally posted by Phry

Most of the time only use 3rd person view to check out how your toon looks etc, all combat usually takes place in first person view, combat in 3rd person view is universally rubbish imo, so my prediction is that all the successful cyrodil PVP'ers will be using FPV,  with 3rd person view relegated to the odd screenshot for effect, ie. posed.. for those that use the argument that 3rd person view increases your tactical awareness, simply not true, it just helps make up for a lack of it. pretty sure anyone who has ever played games like Planetside (either version) will understand where im coming from here.

LOL, I agree.  It's like they think it's impossible to play in FPV.  There are many games that only have this view with "enemies appearing behind  you".   Sure you can't see them but it doesn't mean you don't know they are there.  I can't wait for all the youtube videos of 'hardcore' PvPers owning in FPV.

  elohssa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 41

3/31/13 3:54:16 AM#180

More choices are not always better...

 

The Paradox of Choice - Why More Is Less is a 2004 book by American psychologist Barry Schwartz. In the book, Schwartz argues that eliminating comsumer choices can greatly reduce anxiety for shoppers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less

 

Primate example, Path of Exile 

PS:  Don't forget to scan the whole thing.  Hold left mouse button down and move around like you would on a map.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree

 

 

Just look at that cluster ****.   How can anyone say that looks like good design or appealing?

13 Pages First « 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 » Last Search