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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Will the real ESO please stand-up?

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252 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

 
OP  3/31/13 3:21:41 PM#201
Originally posted by Anakami
Originally posted by rygard49

It occurs to me what the real problem is with accepting faction lock with ESO versus a game like DAoC.

In Dark Age, you had 3 distinct worlds based on historical myth: Hibernia (Celtic Lore), Albion (Arthurian Lore), and Midgard (Norse Lore). So going into the game, you picked your faction first, your lore and setting preference, and then chose your race amongst several choices based on that setting. Those were 3 distinct lore types, and all had been completely familiar to us since we'd grown up hearing those stories. Therefore, going into the game we knew which lore style we liked best.

With ESO, they're taking one world, one lore, and breaking it up into three Alliances. We don't have any prior familiarity with these alliances, so the decision is based entirely on what race we'd prefer to play. ZM now has to fight an uphill battle to convince us that our preferred race is in a cool alliance.

I think that's why so many people have issues with the faction lock. It's because they don't know much about the Aldmeri Dominion, but they know they've loved playing as a Khajiit, so now they feel stuck. I can actually understand that.

I still stand by faction lock being the best mechanic for this type of RvR game, and the lore they're usig to back it up, but now I think I understand the other side's complaints a bit better.

Yes, I believe that is exactly what people have issues with. You have put it into words very nicely :)

Btw, why don't we try to think of some solutions to the issue instead of having the camps go at each other's throat? I think we can all agree on the fact, that no matter what stance one has on this issue, we all want to have a game at the end that we can enjoy. If noone cared about the game we wouldn't have these heated discussions. It happens though, gaming is a passionate hobby after all ;)

So, what about that mega server technology? They have something that gives you a sort of survey where you can tell the game what gaming preferences you have. So...then the game puts you into a world/shard/instance with people that share the same interest. So why not employ this technology for those who want the complete pvE experience, maybe for RP reasons, maybe because they don't care for the PvP part at all.

I mean, from what I heard they could use that preference system to tailor your gaming experience in a very specific way. So why not use it to have "RP servers" or "PvE Only Servers" where there is no faction lock and friends can play together without any restrictions.

That would work...but only if the PvE-Only servers had a blank void where Cyrodiil is in the AvA servers  Or, kidding aside, they develop a totally different versions of Cyrodiil complete with NPC dialogue and quests that make sense in a non-AvA war environment for the PvE-Only servers.

RP is a different matter. RP+PvP or RP without PvP are equally attractive options although, as an RP PvPer, I know it's a small minority of the player base.

I keep harping on the same point, not because I'm obstinate (there's enough obstinacy in this forum without me adding to it lol) but because I think that having a consistent story that makes sense throughout the whole fantasy world in the MMO is a key core concept.

Grouping, chatting and "guilding" with people from factions that you are at war with in the current AvA-only model is nonsensical. It would take a total redesign to an MMO environment without a 3-way war for that to make sense. In the current design model for this particular time in the history Tamriel, keeping the 3 factions apart in the areas where the war hasn't reached (yet) makes sense. Fantasy wars in MMOs are modeled based on our own human experience. When significantly large wars break-out between nations, there is just a natural amount of hate and fear directed at those other aliens. Some sort of racial locking would have to exist. Some argue that they want to play a renegade...nice idea... good RP potential, but that would have to be the rare exception--not something that everyone could do willy-nilly.

I understand that this 3-sided war is a big change for single player TES fans to adjust to and is unlike the stories they  have seen before in this world where, typically, there is an internal group of bad-guy conspirators or feuding lords that drive the main plot. All I can say about that is that some people seem to adjust to change better than others.

As to DAoC... as I said in an earlier post now Sapphened into obscurity due to lack of voluminous repetition, I can also conceive of a single player DAoC franchise where there was no 3 sided wars and the different races mixed in PvE ways...maybe even banded together to fight a common greater enemy. That, would also have been a large change for those who had only ever played the MMO version of DAoC but I don't see anything implausible about peace breaking out.

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

3/31/13 6:12:03 PM#202
Originally posted by Phry

Most of the time only use 3rd person view to check out how your toon looks etc, all combat usually takes place in first person view, combat in 3rd person view is universally rubbish imo, so my prediction is that all the successful cyrodil PVP'ers will be using FPV,  with 3rd person view relegated to the odd screenshot for effect, ie. posed.. for those that use the argument that 3rd person view increases your tactical awareness, simply not true, it just helps make up for a lack of it. pretty sure anyone who has ever played games like Planetside (either version) will understand where im coming from here.

Ridiculous! You can't put FPS games in this arguement, because they require accuracy, and accuracy comes best in first person. ESO goes not require accuracy, hit boxes are pretty big... you dont have to aim anywhere, just in the general direction.

[mod edit]

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16601

3/31/13 6:15:36 PM#203
Originally posted by rygard49

It occurs to me what the real problem is with accepting faction lock with ESO versus a game like DAoC.

In Dark Age, you had 3 distinct worlds based on historical myth: Hibernia (Celtic Lore), Albion (Arthurian Lore), and Midgard (Norse Lore). So going into the game, you picked your faction first, your lore and setting preference, and then chose your race amongst several choices based on that setting. Those were 3 distinct lore types, and all had been completely familiar to us since we'd grown up hearing those stories. Therefore, going into the game we knew which lore style we liked best.

With ESO, they're taking one world, one lore, and breaking it up into three Alliances. We don't have any prior familiarity with these alliances, so the decision is based entirely on what race we'd prefer to play. ZM now has to fight an uphill battle to convince us that our preferred race is in a cool alliance.

I think that's why so many people have issues with the faction lock. It's because they don't know much about the Aldmeri Dominion, but they know they've loved playing as a Khajiit, so now they feel stuck. I can actually understand that.

I still stand by faction lock being the best mechanic for this type of RvR game, and the lore they're usig to back it up, but now I think I understand the other side's complaints a bit better.

Thats' actually very well said. I'm still for a free open world, whether there is ffa pvp i another's faction or not but you have put a nice light on part of the problem.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2702

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/31/13 6:22:53 PM#204


Originally posted by Sentnl

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by Sentnl
I hope half you realise that you're speaking nonsense...

WoW came from the warcraft series, were they alike!? I couldn't build any barracks...
Warhammer came from a miniature game, I couldn't roll any physical dice, oh my god!
Swtor came from a fictional story, believe it or not... etc.
THIS IS NOT THE SINGLE PLAYER GAME YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

Let it be ffs, let it become it's own entity, dont disturb it. If you're lucky enough to also get a beta key, you can come help send feedback on its great features.



Some change will occur. That is inevitable. Nobody will be The Nerevarine or Dohvakiin. Not one of *my* expectations.

Your examples were nothing but petulant flame-bait. You took the most absurd things you could think of and tried to compare them to legitimate concerns. Are you really that stupid to believe what you wrote has any validity?



Oh sorry, I guess directly porting a single player game into an mmorpg makes perfect sense. *facepalm*

My examples are legitamate, an mmorpg is a seperate genre, and games have evolved into mmorpgs from other sources.

It's like, look... you have an eevee, and I give it a thunderstone. Sure, you're eevee was neat, and cool; However, now you don't have an eevee, it's something different, based on an eevee, and you will love it.



MMORPGs and SPRPGs are about as close "in genre" as one can get. The MAIN difference being multiple players. I am surprised I had to spell that out for you.

Your examples, which I underlined, so you would not get confused, are the petulant examples *I* was speaking of.

If *you* expected to build barracks in WoW or roll physical dice (which you could have done, to no affect on the game) in Warahhamer, yes, your complaints are stupid and unreasonable. Star Wars is fictional? What game is NOT? Sims Online? Second Life? What has that got to do with price of tea in China? Absolutely nothing.

Tell me how faction locked AvAvA makes this game an MMORPG. Would it NOT be one without it? Can an MMORPG exist that does not even include PvP of any kind? Is it really so unreasonable?

A player of TES single player games is not being crazy wanting to take that RPG experience and see it in a massively multiplayer online game. Now, if *I* expected to pause a battle and quaff a fistfull of healing and stamina potions, then you could call me crazy.

Again, *your* examples were petulant flamebait.

*I* know the game will not change. I do NOT expect it to. It is MUCH too late for that. But if (NOT when) it fails to live up to expectations, I would like the developers and publisher to have an idea as to one possibility. I truly hope that the AvAvA players will be happy here. The game was made specifically for them.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16601

3/31/13 6:25:01 PM#205
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Sovrath

Just as DAoC players are expectign a full fledged 3 faction experience. If DAoC 2 was being made and they made it ffa pvp instead of 3 faction, do you think for a minute that DAoC players wouldn't have something to say about it?

ROFL! +1

Face meets mirror.

 

And mirror reflects an inferior cobbled together mess in both a ffa DAoC and a TES lobby game. You do know you want a TES lobby don't you?

But you say that based on what? No one has ever said they wanted a TES lobby game.

Really? Group with whomever from whichever faction and do dungeons and raids with them. Then go to the PvP instance and fight against them. Sounds like 2 totally different and incongrous games to me. That's what a lobby game is: a gateway to different games...it's Richard Garriot's new thing even...the way of the future donchaknow :)

Standing in Stormwind (or Dalaran or wherever) and Q'ing in different matchmaking services is the WOW lobby way...but that's not required. Just piecing together different chunks without a lot of thought for the whole thing is what defines a lobby game.

There is quite  difference between standing in town and bringing up some game interface to automtically join you in a dungeon or a battlefield and grouping with people in an open world and and traveling to a contested area (cyrodill) and fighting for territory.

In lineage 2 you could literally be grouping with people from another clan and the next day find out that you are at war with them because of something that someone in their clan did and even sieging their castle on the weekend.

I see the point you are trying to make in that one moment you might be explorign together and the next you are fighting against them and then back to questing together, but that's not indicative of a lobby game.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 2702

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

3/31/13 6:58:32 PM#206


Originally posted by rygard49
It occurs to me what the real problem is with accepting faction lock with ESO versus a game like DAoC.

In Dark Age, you had 3 distinct worlds based on historical myth: Hibernia (Celtic Lore), Albion (Arthurian Lore), and Midgard (Norse Lore). So going into the game, you picked your faction first, your lore and setting preference, and then chose your race amongst several choices based on that setting. Those were 3 distinct lore types, and all had been completely familiar to us since we'd grown up hearing those stories. Therefore, going into the game we knew which lore style we liked best.

With ESO, they're taking one world, one lore, and breaking it up into three Alliances. We don't have any prior familiarity with these alliances, so the decision is based entirely on what race we'd prefer to play. ZM now has to fight an uphill battle to convince us that our preferred race is in a cool alliance.

I think that's why so many people have issues with the faction lock. It's because they don't know much about the Aldmeri Dominion, but they know they've loved playing as a Khajiit, so now they feel stuck. I can actually understand that.

I still stand by faction lock being the best mechanic for this type of RvR game, and the lore they're usig to back it up, but now I think I understand the other side's complaints a bit better.



I, too, believe faction locks for AvAvA games is best. The Elder Scrolls just doesn't "fit" that setting, in my opinion.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

3/31/13 7:04:22 PM#207
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

I, too, believe faction locks for AvAvA games is best. The Elder Scrolls just doesn't "fit" that setting, in my opinion.

 

I'm still in the category of not understanding why three distinct factions doesn't "fit" in TES. I dont think anyone has really given a logical reason yet, or I missed it.

ESO is apparently set 1000 years before what we know. Tell me how races pairing off in three ways to dominate a central territory in this period of time makes no sense, or doesn't "fit"

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

3/31/13 7:32:54 PM#208
Originally posted by Sentnl

[mod edit]

LOL, like someone playing in FPV is just gonna stand still.  The camera still moves the same, you can "orbit and straf" in FPV, the only disadvantage is you can't see anyone coming up from behind you.  If you straf to the side out of LOS, they still know where you went, lol.

I'm willing to bet some hardcore PvPer's are going to be posting youtube videos of them owning in FPV just for the sake of doing it.  There is a sight advantage of TPV but it's not as extreme as you make it out to be.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/31/13 8:34:26 PM#209
Originally posted by Vorthanion

Heh, how you came to the conclusion that I was agreeing with you goes beyond my logical mind.  Incentive will always override the path of least resistance.  Incentives will encourage people to do the harder and or more tedious content in order to get the better and or greater quantities of rewards.  You obviously don't understand the meaning.

Because what you decided to state yet again IS the path of least resistance. Whichever path that has the best work to reward ratio. It is all based on opportunity cost.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

3/31/13 9:04:26 PM#210
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Vorthanion

Heh, how you came to the conclusion that I was agreeing with you goes beyond my logical mind.  Incentive will always override the path of least resistance.  Incentives will encourage people to do the harder and or more tedious content in order to get the better and or greater quantities of rewards.  You obviously don't understand the meaning.

Because what you decided to state yet again IS the path of least resistance. Whichever path that has the best work to reward ratio. It is all based on opportunity cost.

WoW's raids for example. There's a reason why a lot of people try to form raids to do regular raids instead of just doing lfr. For better loot(incentive). The path of least resistance is obviously not doing raids at all. The next path of least resistance is lfr. A step above that is normal raids.

 

People do not choose the path of least resistance just for the sake of it. People just don't want to have their time wasted and thats a logical thing for people to want. So if they have to spend 3 hours to get some "meh" reward. But if they spend 1 hour, they get a reward that's not as good, but not that much worse, its only logical they choose the 1 hour of work. Rewards have to be proportional to the work required otherwise they initial goal of being a reward just falls apart on itself.


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/02/13 10:53:06 AM#211
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

 
OP  4/02/13 11:55:04 AM#212
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).

You can say that about any and all MMOs.

And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different  in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.

This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.

It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.

  rygard49

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/02/13 12:05:14 PM#213
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
 In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.

I agree with half of what you say here.

The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.

The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.

  1. An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
  2. This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
 
  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/02/13 12:10:21 PM#214
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
 In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.

I agree with half of what you say here.

The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.

The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.

  1. An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
  2. This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
 

I'm not implying the debating isn't fun or warrented. What I am saying is after all the debating is said and done, after all sides have tried to prove to the other side how wrong they are going to be, we end up getting a turd sandwich of a game most of the time anyways. 

  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/02/13 12:12:31 PM#215
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).

You can say that about any and all MMOs.

And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different  in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.

This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.

It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.

I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.

  rygard49

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/02/13 12:19:11 PM#216
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
 In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.

I agree with half of what you say here.

The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.

The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.

  1. An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
  2. This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
 

I'm not implying the debating isn't fun or warrented. What I am saying is after all the debating is said and done, after all sides have tried to prove to the other side how wrong they are going to be, we end up getting a turd sandwich of a game most of the time anyways. 

That's totally subjective, though. Many people love (LOVE) some of the more recent AAA releases. No, they're not blockbuster titles like WoW was and will continue to be, but if you take WoW out of the equation entirely and compare these games to each other, you'll find most of them have comparable amounts of success.

My point about debating is that it doesn't matter what the end result of a game's release ends up being. The debate is a game unto itself and that's why we do it.

 

  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/02/13 12:22:21 PM#217
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
 In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates.

I agree with half of what you say here.

The hype is always overblown and out of control. Always. There's not been a game released in the past 5 years that I feel has lived up to the unreal expectations built up by their media campaigns.

The debates are another topic, however. I think every MMO should be debated for two reasons.

  1. An argument for or against certain ideas in a game needs to be tested and forged against opposing viewpoints in order to solidify it's validity. If everyone just said 'Okay' to every development idea, without debate, all we would ever get is crap and we would never know why.
  2. This is the most important reason there is... We're bored and debating things on forums is fun.
 

I'm not implying the debating isn't fun or warrented. What I am saying is after all the debating is said and done, after all sides have tried to prove to the other side how wrong they are going to be, we end up getting a turd sandwich of a game most of the time anyways. 

That's totally subjective, though. Many people love (LOVE) some of the more recent AAA releases. No, they're not blockbuster titles like WoW was and will continue to be, but if you take WoW out of the equation entirely and compare these games to each other, you'll find most of them have comparable amounts of success.

My point about debating is that it doesn't matter what the end result of a game's release ends up being. The debate is a game unto itself and that's why we do it.

 

I can go with that. I think i am just tired of the disapointment (in what i enjoy in a game anyways) and it has turned me into a "sour stanley"(TM)

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

 
OP  4/02/13 12:24:22 PM#218
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).

You can say that about any and all MMOs.

And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different  in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.

This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.

It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.

I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.

Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.

RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.

You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...

See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.

  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/02/13 12:29:59 PM#219
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
It is hard for me to get excited about this game, or any new "MMO" coming out. Before games come out there are always the hype, the forum debates, and the general "this is the MMO that will be different!" posts. Yet when the games launch, they are the same old recycled garbage we have been fed for years but with a prettier skin. In my opinion, there has not been an MMO released in a good many years that was worthy of the hype or debates. I hate to be negative, but given the track record of releases in the last few years, I find it hard to believe this game will be any different. I really, really, really hope I am wrong because I have been itching to play something that holds my attention for more than 4-6 weeks (GW2 I'm looking at you).

You can say that about any and all MMOs.

And they all are different...some more than others. Sometimes different  in a good way. Other times different in shitty ways.

This one is different because it's built around a 3-sided RvR system and not many MMORPGs have done that. It's also different in how you build your character to be unique by "leveling" class, armor and weapon types separately.

It's still early. We'll see if they can pull it all together into a quality package.

I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.

Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.

RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.

You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...

See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.

Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.

I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.

  rygard49

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/02/13 12:48:36 PM#220
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pixel_Jockey

I'm sorry but the "differences" in new MMOs are few and far between. And no, the 3 sided RvR is not a new concept. Most new MMOs (despite their innovative "differences") mostly all amount to the same thing...something that is fun for a few weeks.

Oh I see... you want "never been done before" and engaging in the long term...we can always hope.

RPGs and even MMOs have been around long enough now that "firsts" are few and far between. Most everything is a variation on a theme. Usually variations on things that work.

You want something really, really new? Look at Scarlet Blade: no male characters and blatant sexpolitation MMO...

See, I don't equate new with "good." It's just as likely to be shit.

Yes, I fail to see where expecting some innovation from this genre is a fault on my end. I would play Scarlet Blade but it might be uncomfortable playing long sessions with a constant boner.

I don't equate new to good either, that I can agree on for sure.

Innovation is tough. The old saying goes that necessity is the mother of invention, and unfortunately there's not a whole lot of 'need' in the online gaming world. That's not to say that it's impossible to think up never before done features, but when you look at the 20-30 year history of gaming... there's not a lot left unexplored in terms of game design.

Add to that the fact that many of the thinkers in our world aren't really doers. I think people may have genius ideas all day long for how to successfully change the industry for the better, but they want someone else to implement those ideas. Just look at these forums for plenty of examples of that concept.

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