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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Do not understand why you call Raiding against TES IP, but they are making a PVP Focused Game.

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111 posts found
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

3/28/13 7:00:41 PM#61
Even though i hope TESO is a great game i know well i won't want to play with anyone because the game will be all about me me me.
  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1337

3/28/13 7:01:51 PM#62
Originally posted by nerovipus32
I'm not even a big DAOC fanboi, my first mmo was swg and since then every mmo has been shit and the communities have been shit and i don't even want to play with any of you. That is how the genre makes me feel today. There is no community in mmo's these days it's all about how can i use these people to progress my character.

I loved SWG but to say that community was something great is a lie. There were just as many a**holes, elitists, and people using other people for progression ( gear is not the only form of progression) as there is in any modern MMO.

The more I play MMOs the more obvious it becomes that a lot of people do not play them to escape reality or for enjoyment. Instead they bring all of their problems, mental issues and lonliness in to the game with them. Maybe these are just my experiences. It's possible. I have seen people do some weird sh*t in MMOs.

As far as communities go I don't think any game has ever had a nicer, more helpful community than Ryzom. Yet another game that no one ever played.

  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

3/28/13 7:05:45 PM#63
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by nerovipus32
I'm not even a big DAOC fanboi, my first mmo was swg and since then every mmo has been shit and the communities have been shit and i don't even want to play with any of you. That is how the genre makes me feel today. There is no community in mmo's these days it's all about how can i use these people to progress my character.

I loved SWG but to say that community was something great is a lie. There were just as many a**holes, elitists, and people using other people for progression ( gear is not the only form of progression) as there is in any modern MMO.

The more I play MMOs the more obvious it becomes that a lot of people do not play them to escape reality or for enjoyment. Instead they bring all of their problems, mental issues and lonliness in to the game with them. Maybe these are just my experiences. It's possible. I have seen people do some weird sh*t in MMOs.

As far as communities go I don't think any game has ever had a nicer, more helpful community than Ryzom. Yet another game that no one ever played.

I agree swg did have it's asshole but there was a sense of interdependancy, nowadays you only have to press a button and you're in a dungeon with 4 other strangers. SWg made you interact on a personal level reardless if the person was a douchebag or not, Today you're just playing with souless avatars. Remember waiting for 10 minutes for a shuttle in swg? todays gamer would freak out over that instead of taking the oppertunity to be social.

  Ghavrigg

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 612

3/28/13 7:06:39 PM#64
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Ghavrigg

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by kidas52 How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.
  There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP.  Otherwise why not just make another single player game?  Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends.  MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Hmm... odd how I never participate in PvP, and somehow still play MMORPG's! The reality  is that MMORPG's only make sense to YOU if there's PvP. To me, PvP is a side attraction for when I feel a little bored of the PvE at the time. It's nothing but a mini-game. But I understand to others it's just the opposite. As long as they have a lot of content for both, I don't really care if PvP is in the game, however. Unless they're doing all of their class balancing in terms of PvP, then it's annoying.
MMORPG's are not about pve or pvp they are about COMMUNITY..when will people start to understand that fact. You can have all the content in the world but if the community is shit you'll end up with a toxic experience.

 

while i agree community is very important, MMO's are different things to different people.

also, content is important as hell when it comes to themepark games like this, it is probably the most important thing and big reason why a lot of them fail.

Yup. Community is important, sure, but if the rest of the game sucks, I'm not gonna stick around for a chat room.

  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

3/28/13 7:09:05 PM#65
Originally posted by Ghavrigg
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Ghavrigg

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by kidas52 How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.
  There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP.  Otherwise why not just make another single player game?  Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends.  MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Hmm... odd how I never participate in PvP, and somehow still play MMORPG's! The reality  is that MMORPG's only make sense to YOU if there's PvP. To me, PvP is a side attraction for when I feel a little bored of the PvE at the time. It's nothing but a mini-game. But I understand to others it's just the opposite. As long as they have a lot of content for both, I don't really care if PvP is in the game, however. Unless they're doing all of their class balancing in terms of PvP, then it's annoying.
MMORPG's are not about pve or pvp they are about COMMUNITY..when will people start to understand that fact. You can have all the content in the world but if the community is shit you'll end up with a toxic experience.

 

while i agree community is very important, MMO's are different things to different people.

also, content is important as hell when it comes to themepark games like this, it is probably the most important thing and big reason why a lot of them fail.

Yup. Community is important, sure, but if the rest of the game sucks, I'm not gonna stick around for a chat room.

You'll stick around if the people you are playing with are worth sticking around for.

  Ghavrigg

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 612

3/28/13 7:15:29 PM#66
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Ghavrigg
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Ghavrigg

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Originally posted by kidas52 How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.
  There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP.  Otherwise why not just make another single player game?  Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends.  MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.
Hmm... odd how I never participate in PvP, and somehow still play MMORPG's! The reality  is that MMORPG's only make sense to YOU if there's PvP. To me, PvP is a side attraction for when I feel a little bored of the PvE at the time. It's nothing but a mini-game. But I understand to others it's just the opposite. As long as they have a lot of content for both, I don't really care if PvP is in the game, however. Unless they're doing all of their class balancing in terms of PvP, then it's annoying.
MMORPG's are not about pve or pvp they are about COMMUNITY..when will people start to understand that fact. You can have all the content in the world but if the community is shit you'll end up with a toxic experience.

 

while i agree community is very important, MMO's are different things to different people.

also, content is important as hell when it comes to themepark games like this, it is probably the most important thing and big reason why a lot of them fail.

Yup. Community is important, sure, but if the rest of the game sucks, I'm not gonna stick around for a chat room.

You'll stick around if the people you are playing with are worth sticking around for.

Uh, just because you believe that doesn't make it true for everyone.  If I make friends and they're worth it, I'll add them to facebook, or skype or something, and try and play other games here and there or something. There's been plenty of times where I've lost interest in a game, even though I've had a great guild and people I talk to, and just never log in again suddenly.

I don't put a lot of stock in online friendships, though. I have enough RL friends that I don't really worry about whether or not I make lasting relationships in a game.

  NC360

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 67

3/28/13 7:28:53 PM#67
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by Gravarg

Why exactly can't they focus on both?

 

WoW and Rift both have a big following for PvE and PvP.  That's why I play them both.

I feel as if it's always bad players who QQ about pve dungeons vs pvp/RvRvR content. Bad players who know they wont be able to compete, so they just dont want it in the game, to prevent their fragile ego from being shattered because players dont react like npc's.

Nail... on... head. That's exactly it. I mean if they're roleplaying as the most powerful warrior the world has ever seen, then get totally wasted by another player as if their character was a house maid, they're not going to be too thrilled about it. What I think they should do is just credit the person who beat them, and ask for some tips. But I suppose if they give that player any credit, they're not roleplaying the best warrior the world has ever seen.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1337

3/28/13 7:33:40 PM#68
Originally posted by nerovipus32

I agree swg did have it's asshole but there was a sense of interdependancy, nowadays you only have to press a button and you're in a dungeon with 4 other strangers. SWg made you interact on a personal level reardless if the person was a douchebag or not, Today you're just playing with souless avatars. Remember waiting for 10 minutes for a shuttle in swg? todays gamer would freak out over that instead of taking the oppertunity to be social.

I agree with the interdependency but I don't blame the lack of that on a LFG tool. It comes from the very core of the game design. If a LFG tool destroys your community it wasn't there to begin with.

SWG's interdependency came in large part from it's item decay system. With out that you really didn't need the crafters, the crafters did not need the mats and people like me who earned steady credits from gathering and selling mats had nothing to do. Item decay drove the economy and the community. The LFG tool would not have ruined that interdependency.

To me a good or bad community is not judged by if everyone says hello when I port in to a dungeon. It comes from what goes on outside of that dungeon. SWG's greatness really came from the fact that things broke and needed to be replaced. Only players could make those items. It's a pretty simple concept that developers don't want to touch any more.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2412

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/29/13 1:05:32 PM#69
Originally posted by kidas52

How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.

 

"Your first hours in TESO, at least, will be PvE focused before the option to transition into competitive play. "Yeah we don't know exactly when that point is," says Firor. "Right now it's on level 10, which is about 15 hours of gameplay. Our thinking is at least a few hours of PvE to get the controls and how combat works – we don't want to throw 'em out there too soon, but we always want it all to be up to the player to choose."

All well and good, because for many prospective players the focus is overwhelmingly on PvP" - Mark Firor TESO Game Director

 

Oh looks like you get atleast your first few hours in the RPG immersion everyone has come to associate with The Elder Scrolls Franchise.  Then you better put your troll hats on and get ready to for all chat "pwnt you noob!"

Fairly certain I am able to kill just about any NPC in Skyrim I want barring certain storyline NPC's.  I even make it a point for both of my Dark Elf classes to kill every Argonian in the world.  Ohh you can also steal, intimdate and grief other NPC's in the world.  IF those elements are not PvP like then you can dress me up i na pink tutu and call me a ballerina.

 

On that same token, I am almost positive my game character is unable to join a group of 24 or 39 other NPC's in game and go slay dragons or explore ruinous caverns, all that is done in a solo or in a small party size element.

 

So again I ask whcih is more TES like?  PvP or Raiding?

 

Thats what I thought.......point made!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  ElderRat

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/10
Posts: 909

3/29/13 1:09:45 PM#70
Originally posted by BigHatLogan
Originally posted by kidas52
How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.

 

There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP.  Otherwise why not just make another single player game?  Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends.  MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.

"There is no point in making TES a MMORPG at all"...   With that I agree. i wish they would stop this and go back to what they know - Excellent single player games.

Currently bored with MMO's.

  cronius77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1246

3/29/13 1:18:17 PM#71
this thread seems to consist of two types of players the old wow crowd that want raiding and pve content and exploring the entire world , and the daoc crowd who want realm vs realm and pvp and to keep it factional. Skyrim is still a great single player game to people that do not like the direction that Matt Friror is taking , go play it again and mod it for more playing hours. I like the DAOC 2 attitude they are taking. DAOC did perfectly fine for years without real instanced raiding. If you wanted to raid you had open world bosses like legion cear sidi etc Im sure adventuring zones will be similiar and if you want to really have some fun , they add in a darkness falls style dungeon where each realm has to fight to control and has awesome rewards in it . Some of you pve folks might really enjoy that , I know darkness falls is what made me really enjoy pvp in games. Chasing down stealthers and zerging the opposing realms portal in there with a group of friends not letting them come in until they wiped us.
  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4513

3/29/13 1:37:27 PM#72

I understand the people who like Raids, and I understand the people who like PvP. However, here's what I don't get.

In what TES games has there EVER been raiding? I'm being serious here. We've had TES games with wars (which seem to mimick Zenimax's focus on PvP), but I don't think I've ever seen anything remotely similar to raid content in an elder scrolls game, period.

I guess I just don't understand the implication that Raiding is somehow just as important to, if not more important to an elder scrolls game, when it has had nothing to do with any of them ever. I understand that some people like raiding, but it doesn't seem like a feature that would make this game seem any more like elder scrolls in any way. In reality just the opposite.

It kinda looks to me like some people don't actually give a crap about whether this game feels like elder scrolls, and are rather just looking for excuses to put in features that cater specifically to them.

  User Deleted
3/29/13 1:45:53 PM#73
Originally posted by aesperus

I understand the people who like Raids, and I understand the people who like PvP. However, here's what I don't get.

In what TES games has there EVER been raiding? I'm being serious here. We've had TES games with wars (which seem to mimick Zenimax's focus on PvP), but I don't think I've ever seen anything remotely similar to raid content in an elder scrolls game, period.

I guess I just don't understand the implication that Raiding is somehow just as important to, if not more important to an elder scrolls game, when it has had nothing to do with any of them ever. I understand that some people like raiding, but it doesn't seem like a feature that would make this game seem any more like elder scrolls in any way. In reality just the opposite.

It kinda looks to me like some people don't actually give a crap about whether this game feels like elder scrolls, and are rather just looking for excuses to put in features that cater specifically to them.

well,raiding is interesting concept,like lets imagine that theres planet destroyer megaboom monster which needs 5 players to take him down or 50 players or even 100,which one is more interesting scenario ? not to mention if some people manages to 10 man it or 30 man it or even solo it.

to me raiding sounds much more interesting than mobs which are scripted for 5 mans,which ofcourse can be soloed perhaps.

 

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2412

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/29/13 4:33:00 PM#74
Originally posted by ForumPvP
Originally posted by aesperus

I understand the people who like Raids, and I understand the people who like PvP. However, here's what I don't get.

In what TES games has there EVER been raiding? I'm being serious here. We've had TES games with wars (which seem to mimick Zenimax's focus on PvP), but I don't think I've ever seen anything remotely similar to raid content in an elder scrolls game, period.

I guess I just don't understand the implication that Raiding is somehow just as important to, if not more important to an elder scrolls game, when it has had nothing to do with any of them ever. I understand that some people like raiding, but it doesn't seem like a feature that would make this game seem any more like elder scrolls in any way. In reality just the opposite.

It kinda looks to me like some people don't actually give a crap about whether this game feels like elder scrolls, and are rather just looking for excuses to put in features that cater specifically to them.

well,raiding is interesting concept,like lets imagine that theres planet destroyer megaboom monster which needs 5 players to take him down or 50 players or even 100,which one is more interesting scenario ? not to mention if some people manages to 10 man it or 30 man it or even solo it.

to me raiding sounds much more interesting than mobs which are scripted for 5 mans,which ofcourse can be soloed perhaps.

 

The 5 man all day long and twice on sundays because first I can do it when I want.  Meaning I dont have to plan for it nor schedule for it.  Plus I'll feel more like a badass knowing my cntributions were much more impactful instead of knowing your actions are likely carrying 3-4 baddies around every raid.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2601

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

3/29/13 6:01:44 PM#75
Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by BigHatLogan
Originally posted by Horusra
Originally posted by BigHatLogan
Originally posted by kidas52
How is that more like TES IP exactly?? Don't quite remember TES being famous for its PvP content.

 

There is no point in making TES an MMORPG at all unless it involves PVP.  Otherwise why not just make another single player game?  Or a cooperative mode option in a single player game or something if people want to explore with friends.  MMORPGs only make sense if PVP is involved.

Yeah because EQ and AC were not MMORPG's at all with little PvP.  PvP does not make an MMORPG.

Yes, you can have a MMORPG without PVP.  It just would be boring and pointless.

I'm sorry but FFXI was boring and pointless?

I think a better way to put it is PvE only games are repetitive and boring. Once you master the content, then what? You sit around waiting for the next expansion. Honestly, RvR in DAoC was never boring TO ME but killing the same Boss a few dozen times in any MMO dungeon sure can be.

Those two words I added in red up there for you mean a world of difference in the context of this disagreement. And adding them shouldn't require any further rebuttal from me.

 

 


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Miblet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 320

3/29/13 6:39:58 PM#76
Originally posted by aesperus

I understand the people who like Raids, and I understand the people who like PvP. However, here's what I don't get.

In what TES games has there EVER been raiding? I'm being serious here. We've had TES games with wars (which seem to mimick Zenimax's focus on PvP), but I don't think I've ever seen anything remotely similar to raid content in an elder scrolls game, period.

I guess I just don't understand the implication that Raiding is somehow just as important to, if not more important to an elder scrolls game, when it has had nothing to do with any of them ever. I understand that some people like raiding, but it doesn't seem like a feature that would make this game seem any more like elder scrolls in any way. In reality just the opposite.

It kinda looks to me like some people don't actually give a crap about whether this game feels like elder scrolls, and are rather just looking for excuses to put in features that cater specifically to them.

'Two small forces clash, the sound of steel and whirl of blades echo throughout the pass as soldiers of the Ebon heart Pact and Aldmeri Dominium engage in another skirmish for the right to hold claim to Cyrodil.'  Could be both a PvP and a raid scenario depending on the control of one of the factions.  I don't deny the ease of which you can think PvP but flesh out the encounter add some reason or story behind it and it could just as easily become PvE content, with one side being controlled via AI.

Raiding does not have to involve one large monster vs a horde of players and can tie in to a war scenario just as well as mass PvP.  People fail to see how raiding (multiple group content) could be linked into any of the elder scroll universe yet ignore the very fact that group conflict and wars form a huge part of TES lore which lends itself to both PvE and PvP scenarios.

Whether people like or hate either raiding or PvP shouldn't be a concern as both PvE and PvP can easily fit with the lore of the IP, and as I have said before I can see both being catered for (especially given information released thus far), as with any modern MMO I expect diversity in order to garner a larger audience and not alienate the IPs fanbase that is not into either PvP or PvE.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

3/29/13 6:43:58 PM#77
All I know is this. If people can say closed of factions/races and invisible walls protecting all lands from the war is TES because its an MMO...then Raiding can be thrown to the wind as a sacrifice to the TES Gods for betraying the IP.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Ginaz

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1633

3/29/13 7:01:19 PM#78
If this is a pvp focused game, them I'm out.  I hate dealing with the pvp'er mindset.  And before anyone calls me a "carebear" or some other demeaning name, I was one of the most succesful and active bounty hunters on my server in swg, where I ended up with exactly 300 completed bounties.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

3/29/13 7:11:48 PM#79
Originally posted by Ginaz
If this is a pvp focused game, them I'm out.  I hate dealing with the pvp'er mindset.  And before anyone calls me a "carebear" or some other demeaning name, I was one of the most succesful and active bounty hunters on my server in swg, where I ended up with exactly 300 completed bounties.

 Dont let them get to you. There are different kinds of PvPers

There are the FFA PvPers, the actual ONLY hardcore PvPers because its PvP the moment you log in.

There are the part-time PvPers from games like UO/AC1/SWG style games where PvP can be anywhere when YOU want it to be there and they do it for FUN. This even includes those that rarely do it and suck, but still do it for FUN.

Then there are the themepark PvPers from games like DaoC, they do it for shineys and must do it a lot. They are like raiders and more often than not, wont do it unless they gain something from it and will only think of it as fun if they are zerging/steaming rolling.

Then there are the part-time themepark PvPers. they want a reward but dont care enough about it to do it often. More often than not will do it until it isnt fun anymore and then stop for a while.

Of the 4, you are near the top and should be proud of it. You dont need a carrot to PvP and im sure you dont need a developer to create faction pride for you either.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Ginaz

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1633

3/29/13 7:36:33 PM#80
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Ginaz
If this is a pvp focused game, them I'm out.  I hate dealing with the pvp'er mindset.  And before anyone calls me a "carebear" or some other demeaning name, I was one of the most succesful and active bounty hunters on my server in swg, where I ended up with exactly 300 completed bounties.

 Dont let them get to you. There are different kinds of PvPers

There are the FFA PvPers, the actual ONLY hardcore PvPers because its PvP the moment you log in.

There are the part-time PvPers from games like UO/AC1/SWG style games where PvP can be anywhere when YOU want it to be there and they do it for FUN. This even includes those that rarely do it and suck, but still do it for FUN.

Then there are the themepark PvPers from games like DaoC, they do it for shineys and must do it a lot. They are like raiders and more often than not, wont do it unless they gain something from it and will only think of it as fun if they are zerging/steaming rolling.

Then there are the part-time themepark PvPers. they want a reward but dont care enough about it to do it often. More often than not will do it until it isnt fun anymore and then stop for a while.

Of the 4, you are near the top and should be proud of it. You dont need a carrot to PvP and im sure you dont need a developer to create faction pride for you either.

Playing as a bounty hunter in swg was THE most fun I've had in any game, not just MMOs.  The in game money earned from the missions was small and there was no other reward apart from the credits.  What I enjoyed was coming up with new ways to kill my targets.  Sometimes I would just bum rush them out in the wilderness.  Other times I'd wait patiently for them in cities.  I remember killing one guy by pretending to be a doctor and setting up outside a starport offering free buffs, with my "buffing" droid (aka bomb droid) next to me.  My target took up my offer and before he knew what happened my bomb droid detonated and he was dead a few seconds afterwards.  I got a few others by pretending to be a fellow jedi padawan (I had unlocked jedi on my BH and had the robes and everything) and earning their trust before I got them alone and killed them.  Great times.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

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