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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » There are no raids... can you live with that?

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549 posts found
  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3367

 
OP  3/22/13 8:07:41 AM#41
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

Cyrodill gives no unique items and such that we're aware of. It seems much more of a casual thing to do for fun. You really think this game is gonna be all - end all with Cyrodill? I sure hope that isnt Zenimax's plan. PvP endgame survives on World PvP (And Cyrodill hardly counts as World PvP to me, its designed. World PvP isnt designed, it just happens wherever you see the opposition, which isnt the case) and stuff like Arenas/Battlegrounds. If Cyrodill is their end-game plan since there is no raiding, then I am concerned. It sounds like crafting is the be all end all of getting gear, so I doubt these World Bosses give anything unique and are just a for fun thing. And lets be honest, do you see yourself doing the same World Boss 20 times if it offers nothing new or better?

I have done many a raid just because it was fun and I already had all the gear I wanted. Im not a gear hound but I know not all raiders think like me.

i like the feeling of logging on and feeling like I can improve my character. I dont want to log on and be like "Well time to do my routine explorations of finding materials for crafting" I love the immersion and such, dont get me wrong. But when I'm 50, then I want to improve (while still having fun) I am sure doing the other two factions will be fun. THEN WHAT THOUGH?! Because I guarantee you if this game is pay to play, anyone who wants to complete all three factions will have done so after a couple months.

 

If I'm Zenimax, I ask myself "Which group is going to keep this game alive longer -- The Elder Scrolls diehards, or the MMORPG fans?" and I don't have a clear answer. My gut tells me after the first few months, it is the MMORPG fans that keep the game alive and strong, but maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's dead even.

 

See, there will be elitists no matter what you play. You know there are Super Smash Brothers Brawl tournaments? That game was designed as a party game and people play it with thousands of dollars on the line. Imagine if the World Bosses are actually hard -- and a group has to ask you to leave or not accept you because youre not understanding the fight and are hurting the team or arent skilled enough for it? What is the difference in that? What if someone doesnt want you in a 4 man dungeon if its hard because youre incompetent and hurting the team there too?

 

I also liked the idea of some of the monsters in a raid or the boss in a raid dropping a rare crafting material everyone gets. Then Raiders have reason to be crafters and crafters have reason to dabble in Raids. If your answer is "Great, I'm a casual who is forced to Raid' No. You really dont. You see, one way or another, you'll have to invest time to get the best gear in the game if that is your goal. If youre playing for immersion and the single player experience, you have hundreds of hours of content dedicated to you with the three factions questing and with crafting.

I dont like the dogma of MMO gear grind beinging the answer any more. We used to play games because they were fun and thats the reason IMO we should be playing games. Chasing the carrot because a new set of gear comes out every 6-12 months IMO is dumb content. Its time to make raiding about fun again!!!

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:08:40 AM#42
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

If they were looking to do something you didn't participate in anyways, would you miss them? It really should never concern you what others do just as long as you are getting enjoyment out of the product.

^^ THIIIIIS!!!

 

No one is forcing you to Raid. You see, one way or another, if you want the best gear in the game, it isnt going to be handed to you. If you only play for single player, that's fine. They just gave you the ability to do the other factions quests, which I presume will take hundreds of hours to complete. Is that not a single player experience you enjoy? Does it bug you that there would be people raiding with better gear than you? (Or maybe even equivalent, but why does them raiding hurt you?)

 

There were Elder Scrolls fans who wanted this game DELAYED for 1st person, a feature mainly designed for you. I see no one that wants this game delayed for Raids. If it doesnt hurt you, why do you not want it in the game? I guarantee you whether this game has Raids or not, there will be elitists. Youre playing an MMORPG. There will be e-peen strokers and elitists in any game that has gear and a way to min/max.

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

3/22/13 8:11:45 AM#43
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maephisto
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

The forum poll from the link you posted, kind of kills the purpose of that thread.

The number of people who voted "don't care" and "no raids" outnumbers those who want raids.  Despite the low number of people who voted on that topic, lets assume it is a decent sample size and reflects the view of the TESO population.  From that poll, it would not be a smart idea to dedicate resources to develop raiding content.

(they could have provided different questions to make raiding seem more popular I guess)

If thats the case then I guess the numerous polls where housing pops up similar results means housing should not be included either then right? The fact is those who "don't care either way" are generally those who just have not made up their mind on the topic.

Pretty much.

Also, if these polls were to be used any any official capacity, it wouldn't be used to determine what is or is not included in a game.  Rather, what the priorities should be. 

That isnt a fact, you are projecting.  "I honestly don't care"  is not ambiguous in meaning.  Once again, the creator of that poll could have chosen questions that puts raiding in a more positive light.  As it stands, it shouldnt be used to prove the lack of raiding is harmful to TESO.  (Im actually doing raiders a favor here)

Take the OP's poll for instance.  Is there any wiggle room in that?

  revslave

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 152

Welcome Home

3/22/13 8:11:58 AM#44

Hello

I have not raided since EQ2, and after that experance i dount i will ever willing sign up for 20+ hours of raiding a week again.  That being said I do like  open/contested raid dungeons, and contested pve encouters in open pvp areas.  Basically I have no desire to sit through a 4 hour slog in a scripted closed raiding enviroment, but am open to a contested/dynamic raid experance.

Welcome Home

Rev.

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3367

 
OP  3/22/13 8:12:08 AM#45
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

If they were looking to do something you didn't participate in anyways, would you miss them? It really should never concern you what others do just as long as you are getting enjoyment out of the product.

^^ THIIIIIS!!!

 

No one is forcing you to Raid. You see, one way or another, if you want the best gear in the game, it isnt going to be handed to you. If you only play for single player, that's fine. They just gave you the ability to do the other factions quests, which I presume will take hundreds of hours to complete. Is that not a single player experience you enjoy? Does it bug you that there would be people raiding with better gear than you? (Or maybe even equivalent, but why does them raiding hurt you?)

 

There were Elder Scrolls fans who wanted this game DELAYED for 1st person, a feature mainly designed for you. I see no one that wants this game delayed for Raids. If it doesnt hurt you, why do you not want it in the game? I guarantee you whether this game has Raids or not, there will be elitists. Youre playing an MMORPG. There will be e-peen strokers and elitists in any game that has gear and a way to min/max.

IMO you should want a little of each type of player to have a strong community. You may not be a crafter but you should want them in your game. You may not be a raider but they add to the community as much as the crafter. Alienating a group from your MMO IMO can have a negitive impact on the game.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:12:35 AM#46
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

Cyrodill gives no unique items and such that we're aware of. It seems much more of a casual thing to do for fun. You really think this game is gonna be all - end all with Cyrodill? I sure hope that isnt Zenimax's plan. PvP endgame survives on World PvP (And Cyrodill hardly counts as World PvP to me, its designed. World PvP isnt designed, it just happens wherever you see the opposition, which isnt the case) and stuff like Arenas/Battlegrounds. If Cyrodill is their end-game plan since there is no raiding, then I am concerned. It sounds like crafting is the be all end all of getting gear, so I doubt these World Bosses give anything unique and are just a for fun thing. And lets be honest, do you see yourself doing the same World Boss 20 times if it offers nothing new or better?

I have done many a raid just because it was fun and I already had all the gear I wanted. Im not a gear hound but I know not all raiders think like me.

i like the feeling of logging on and feeling like I can improve my character. I dont want to log on and be like "Well time to do my routine explorations of finding materials for crafting" I love the immersion and such, dont get me wrong. But when I'm 50, then I want to improve (while still having fun) I am sure doing the other two factions will be fun. THEN WHAT THOUGH?! Because I guarantee you if this game is pay to play, anyone who wants to complete all three factions will have done so after a couple months.

 

If I'm Zenimax, I ask myself "Which group is going to keep this game alive longer -- The Elder Scrolls diehards, or the MMORPG fans?" and I don't have a clear answer. My gut tells me after the first few months, it is the MMORPG fans that keep the game alive and strong, but maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's dead even.

 

See, there will be elitists no matter what you play. You know there are Super Smash Brothers Brawl tournaments? That game was designed as a party game and people play it with thousands of dollars on the line. Imagine if the World Bosses are actually hard -- and a group has to ask you to leave or not accept you because youre not understanding the fight and are hurting the team or arent skilled enough for it? What is the difference in that? What if someone doesnt want you in a 4 man dungeon if its hard because youre incompetent and hurting the team there too?

 

I also liked the idea of some of the monsters in a raid or the boss in a raid dropping a rare crafting material everyone gets. Then Raiders have reason to be crafters and crafters have reason to dabble in Raids. If your answer is "Great, I'm a casual who is forced to Raid' No. You really dont. You see, one way or another, you'll have to invest time to get the best gear in the game if that is your goal. If youre playing for immersion and the single player experience, you have hundreds of hours of content dedicated to you with the three factions questing and with crafting.

I dont like the dogma of MMO gear grind beinging the answer any more. We used to play games because they were fun and thats the reason IMO we should be playing games. Chasing the carrot because a new set of gear comes out every 6-12 months IMO is dumb content. Its time to make raiding about fun again!!!

Just because raiding isnt fun to you doesnt mean it isnt to others. What if people dont WANT to do the other two factions because they're wiped out from doing so many quests already? As long as there are gear slots, people will grind for gear. And as I stated, I'm a competitive guy in life. I have FUN challenging myself and getting better. Of course I like the sappy stuff like the cool environments, the immersion, all that. But I also have fun challenging myself. Spanking some World Boss for the 40th time with no chance of an upgrade isnt fun. PvP isnt just gonna be"Let the best man win!"Because that is impossible in a game with gear. If you're a poorly geared Level 50, I doubt you can keep up with a "best geared" 50 in PvP.

  Winelen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 11

3/22/13 8:13:13 AM#47

What does one do at lvl 50? 

I think organizing a raid with people is what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG to some extent....

It brings that player to player connection, it establishes a "friendship" with specific players making the entire MMO expierence that much more enjoyable each time you log on. 

PvP :     Is this another stand still until my attack goes off game? The age old argument that its more skill than tab target is just a silly argument IMO, what is skillful about putting your cross hairs on a target and mashing a few buttons? It makes for very slow boring combat imo, if anything let me put my cross hairs on you and hit my buttons all while jumping/strafing/running.

Im struggling to find something exciting about this game, something new and innovative, something that will make me want to come back to the game over and over again......

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/22/13 8:13:15 AM#48
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I dont like the dogma of MMO gear grind beinging the answer any more. We used to play games because they were fun and thats the reason IMO we should be playing games. Chasing the carrot because a new set of gear comes out every 6-12 months IMO is dumb content. Its time to make raiding about fun again!!!

I disagree with this assessment because they are not mutually exclusive, nor does what you consider fun about raiding means its what the majority considers fun. I also disagree because going forward all service based games are going to include some sort of carrot, its suicide not to. There are simply too many different games to hope to keep any kind of decent sized playerbase without hooking them on your game in one form or another.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1817

3/22/13 8:17:44 AM#49

For me no raids is a positive thing and will actually be a consideration on to buy or not.

If it had raids as an end game then it would be an automatic pass for me. Now it will probably be worth the box price to try for a month at least.

  Winelen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 11

3/22/13 8:19:03 AM#50
Originally posted by jdnewell

For me no raids is a positive thing and will actually be a consideration on to buy or not.

If it had raids as an end game then it would be an automatic pass for me. Now it will probably be worth the box price to try for a month at least.

Why would having raids make you not purchase the game? Just curious

  User Deleted
3/22/13 8:19:18 AM#51

If the game had more sandbox elements and meaningful PVP,  it could certainly be successful without raids but I can't imagine that the current level cap activities would keep players engaged for very long. 

I'll certainly give the game a try but my guess is that I'll move on after a month or two. 

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:22:09 AM#52
Originally posted by jdnewell

For me no raids is a positive thing and will actually be a consideration on to buy or not.

If it had raids as an end game then it would be an automatic pass for me. Now it will probably be worth the box price to try for a month at least.

So, do you think Zenimax values your "maybe I'll try it for a month"  money more than an MMORPG guy who will Raid for a year or longer? Assuming it's pay to play, they get 12x the revenue from an MMORPG fan compared to "eh maybe a one month trial"

 

Also as asked above, why does Raids or not change you buying the game? They already said crafting will give the best gear in the game. Spoilers: You're playing an MMORPG, there will be elitists or jerks if that is your fear whether there are Raids or not.

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3367

 
OP  3/22/13 8:22:27 AM#53
Originally posted by fat_taddler

If the game had more sandbox elements and meaningful PVP,  it could certainly be successful without raids but I can't imagine that the current level cap activities would keep players engaged for very long. 

I'll certainly give the game a try but my guess is that I'll move on after a month or two. 

Makes me wonder what they plan on doing to keep players engaged? Will they be adding story every few months? Meta events added every month? I would really like to know their game plan. Or is it you have AvA have fun lol. Even DAoC had Darkness Falls with some raiding. 

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:24:22 AM#54
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by fat_taddler

If the game had more sandbox elements and meaningful PVP,  it could certainly be successful without raids but I can't imagine that the current level cap activities would keep players engaged for very long. 

I'll certainly give the game a try but my guess is that I'll move on after a month or two. 

Makes me wonder what they plan on doing to keep players engaged? Will they be adding story every few months? Meta events added every month? I would really like to know their game plan. Or is it you have AvA have fun lol. Even DAoC had Darkness Falls with some raiding. 

Sandbox? This game is hardly sandbox.

 

You're phased off from everyone during the main story. You cant enjoy the main story with a friend. After the main story? Sure. But the main story it's you alone.

 

You cant go into the other faction and fight/interact with them. When you go there in the 50+ feature, you're phased away from them in your own version and the only people you can see are your own alliance also doing the same thing.

 

Cyrodill is pretty much a super big arena. Hardly classifies as World PvP. It isnt random and sporatic, it's designed.

 

If you want a Sandbox game, you'd be better off banking on Everquest Next. Supposed to come out this year and it's supposed to be "The biggest sandbox MMORPG of all time" according to John Smedley, lead guy.

  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 619

3/22/13 8:26:45 AM#55
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

If they were looking to do something you didn't participate in anyways, would you miss them? It really should never concern you what others do just as long as you are getting enjoyment out of the product.

^^ THIIIIIS!!!

 

No one is forcing you to Raid. You see, one way or another, if you want the best gear in the game, it isnt going to be handed to you. If you only play for single player, that's fine. They just gave you the ability to do the other factions quests, which I presume will take hundreds of hours to complete. Is that not a single player experience you enjoy? Does it bug you that there would be people raiding with better gear than you? (Or maybe even equivalent, but why does them raiding hurt you?)

 

There were Elder Scrolls fans who wanted this game DELAYED for 1st person, a feature mainly designed for you. I see no one that wants this game delayed for Raids. If it doesnt hurt you, why do you not want it in the game? I guarantee you whether this game has Raids or not, there will be elitists. Youre playing an MMORPG. There will be e-peen strokers and elitists in any game that has gear and a way to min/max.

IMO you should want a little of each type of player to have a strong community. You may not be a crafter but you should want them in your game. You may not be a raider but they add to the community as much as the crafter. Alienating a group from your MMO IMO can have a negitive impact on the game.

Sorry but this doesn't make since because you don't have to be one or the other to have a community. A community can be built upon what's in the game, not over titles. People will always be disappointed if they go into a game with a previous game's mindset. Immersion is not genre based, it's game based...

  evilized

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 489

3/22/13 8:27:33 AM#56

i see the wow mouthbreathers are out in full force. don't like the fact there aren't any raids? dont play the game. i'll be playing for the rvr and the ESO-esque combat system along with everything else the game has to offer including having no raid content. 

 

MMO's started without raids. the most fun i have ever had in MMO's has been in games with no raid system. accessable structured raids were new and interesting back in 2004 but they have been done to death and really need to go away so they can be replaced by something more dynamic and fun. darkness falls zone plz?

  Winelen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 11

3/22/13 8:27:49 AM#57
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by fat_taddler

If the game had more sandbox elements and meaningful PVP,  it could certainly be successful without raids but I can't imagine that the current level cap activities would keep players engaged for very long. 

I'll certainly give the game a try but my guess is that I'll move on after a month or two. 

Makes me wonder what they plan on doing to keep players engaged? Will they be adding story every few months? Meta events added every month? I would really like to know their game plan. Or is it you have AvA have fun lol. Even DAoC had Darkness Falls with some raiding. 

Great points! But I would have to assume that adding story elements will not keep so many players interested for very long if at all?

New events each month to me means logging on once a month to see what its about and then logging out. Not a game i will keep on my HD for very long.

If anything they are going to have to make the PvP something so engaing and innovative that it will keep us happy, but already the slow paced stand still until my attack lands combat has already put a damper on that imo.

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3367

 
OP  3/22/13 8:29:08 AM#58
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by fat_taddler

If the game had more sandbox elements and meaningful PVP,  it could certainly be successful without raids but I can't imagine that the current level cap activities would keep players engaged for very long. 

I'll certainly give the game a try but my guess is that I'll move on after a month or two. 

Makes me wonder what they plan on doing to keep players engaged? Will they be adding story every few months? Meta events added every month? I would really like to know their game plan. Or is it you have AvA have fun lol. Even DAoC had Darkness Falls with some raiding. 

Sandbox? This game is hardly sandbox.

 

You're phased off from everyone during the main story. You cant enjoy the main story with a friend. After the main story? Sure. But the main story it's you alone.

 

You cant go into the other faction and fight/interact with them. When you go there in the 50+ feature, you're phased away from them in your own version and the only people you can see are your own alliance also doing the same thing.

 

Cyrodill is pretty much a super big arena. Hardly classifies as World PvP. It isnt random and sporatic, it's designed.

 

If you want a Sandbox game, you'd be better off banking on Everquest Next. Supposed to come out this year and it's supposed to be "The biggest sandbox MMORPG of all time" according to John Smedley, lead guy of SOE.

Not a fan of pure sandbox games. Im more 80% themepark 20% sandbox content. I was not trying to slap ESO in the face when I asked that question I just would really like to know the plan. I loved DAoC RvR but I have to admit I want more. I want to hang with my guild in PvE and 4 man dungeons wont be enough for me. There has to be more or I dont get it. Hay everyone lets get together friday night and.... what? Always AvA? Thats like I love stake but not every day.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:29:51 AM#59
Originally posted by evilized

i see the wow mouthbreathers are out in full force. don't like the fact there aren't any raids? dont play the game. i'll be playing for the rvr and the ESO-esque combat system along with everything else the game has to offer including having no raid content. 

 

MMO's started without raids. the most fun i have ever had in MMO's has been in games with no raid system. accessable structured raids were new and interesting back in 2004 but they have been done to death and really need to go away so they can be replaced by something more dynamic and fun. darkness falls zone plz?

I doubt Elder Scrolls fans will stay subscribed to this game for a few months just based off the single player content alone. This is an MMORPG, not a Skyrim DLC.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

3/22/13 8:29:54 AM#60
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

 Does it not concern you that there is a population that may be buying the game expecting a multiplayer TES game that is going to see a great many non-TES things about the game like invisible walls, closed race/faction choices, PvP in a box, massive lore changes made to fit a DaoC like setting...pretty elves...and then quit because they were decieved by the name?

If you say no, then why should anyone care about Raiders quitting either. If you say yes, then this game isnt for you anymore than it is for people that care more about TES than they do about a DaoC clone.

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