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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » There are no raids... can you live with that?

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549 posts found
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

3/28/13 2:56:24 PM#441
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina

Since people are talking about WoW, I would not say that the majority of players raid. That is a complete fallacy. I guess on some servers like Illidan or Stormrage a lot of people raid but on my old server, Moon Guard, it was estimated that only about 4% of people were seeing raid content, IF that. It was a RP server, true, but most people didn't even RP either. It was also the second most populated sever after Illidan. Sorry to inform you, but raids are not the driving force behind WoW's popularity, but its casual pve content. Achievements, dungeons, LFR, mount collecting, pet collecting, scenarios, etc. I am not saying you are willfully ignorant, but you are still wrong. I am willing to bet you play/played on a very heavily raid centric server.

 

Personally I've raided in WoW since Vanilla up to Mists of Pandaria (worst expansion EVER), when I quit the game.  ESO doesn't have to have raid content to get me to play, as long as it has other PvE content to enjoy. If it is PvP centric you can forget it. That's one of the things that made me quit playing GW2. I am not against having PvP content, but I do not play heavy PvP games like I used to. I am 32 and simply do not have the twitch reflexes that I used to have. I will still enjoy PvP content on a casual basis, though.

 

I DO agree with other posters though, that raids should NOT have drastically better gear than other activites if they were in the game. Early Cata, for example, dungeons were extremely difficult to learn and master. So were raids, but they were about equally difficult compared to the dungeons. Yet the dungeons granted really crappy blue gear while the raid gear was unequivically better. Drastically better. I didn't see how this was fair, and I was a raider.

 

A lot (but not ALL) of raiders are extremely elitist and like to think they are special snowflakes. So many of them think that ALL purple gear is raid gear that should be gated behind raids only. "Why do you need raid gear if you don't raid?" was extremely common among the mouth-breathing elitists. Hated it.

 

just my two cents

you're 32 not 64 get a grip man. gw2 is more pve focused than pvp, the reason i left gw2 was because the wvw was terrible.

People start losing their twitch reflexes in their late 20s, early 30s. It's just not the same as when I was a teen or in my early 20s. I know I'm not 64. where it will be a lot worse :P

I played GW2 for a couple of weeks when it released and it was definitely more PvP centric than otherwise. The major thing to do back then when hitting 80 was WvWvW. That might've changed since I last played, but the bad impression was already there.

Really? Bernard Hopkins just won a world boxing title at 48. I think your reflexes will be ok for gaming for sometime yet.

Citing exceptions to the rule doesn't further your argument.  I stopped playing twitch games back in my late 20's.   Partly because I was tired of them and wanted to try something new, RPGs and partly because I couldn't react to things like I used to as a teenager.  Now in my mid 40's, it is even more exagerated and twitch combat is even more frustrating and annoying than ever.

 

I believe that if Zenimax wants to stick with their current design philosophy, which is first and foremost to make an Elder Scrolls game that appeals to Elder Scrolls gamers, then that would mean placing an emphasis on game mechanics other than raiding and it would appear that their intent is to replace raiding with RvR content.  Whatever they end up doing, they have already stated that many different paths of progression are included in the game and have verified that whether you group, solo, craft or PvP, you will be able to attain equitable loot progression from any of these paths.  So, even if they do decide to go down the raiding path, raiders may not like it anyway as they will be forced to share the uber loot.

My point is if a 48 year old man can box at a world class level, i'm sure you being 32 will be able to play twitched based video games for awhile yet. It's all in the mind anyway, it's not like your hands move independently of your brain.

  User Deleted
3/28/13 3:05:33 PM#442
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Dogblaster

And now .. tell me, why should HC players/elitist who plays 10+ hours a day be on equal footing/have same gear as casual/avarage players? Do we live in communism? hmm

Because, i *might* be wrong about this but i doubt it, they want to have >10k subs.

Its pure capitalism btw, you cater to those that pay yor bills and bring $$, those who are irrelevant...well...you may throw them a bone but dont expect much catering, or, even less, everything custom made to those.

Im all for raids but this backwards thinking that only the best loot in the game should come from raids is really dumb. I think it should be done fair. If we have 20 item slots then 5 items from raiding should be from best in slot, 5 from crafting, 5 from exploring and 5 from dungeons. They should all require = effort (time) to earn. So 3hr raiding for 3 purple cons / by 10 raidiers is 10hrs of work for each purple earned. 10hr of dungeon runs earns you enough dungeon tokins to buy 1 purple con. 2nd best in slot should come from all play types. Fair!!! Add raiding but dont treat them like they own the game. I like to raid but I do it because its fun. Isnt that what video games are about?

Some of these people are totally backwards at it im afraid.

Elitists=worst thing that can happen to MMO

hardcore=/= raider

raid=/=most difficult

Theres nothing wrong with raiding but youll have few of these most vocal special snowflakes proclaining they are directors of the universe and only they deserve best of the best. Lucky for MMOs devs have learned to ignore those special snowflakes and learned hard way they are bad for the game. Thats why they hop from game to game always demnding same thing and, well, always end up short :)

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3566

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/28/13 4:00:17 PM#443
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina

Since people are talking about WoW, I would not say that the majority of players raid. That is a complete fallacy. I guess on some servers like Illidan or Stormrage a lot of people raid but on my old server, Moon Guard, it was estimated that only about 4% of people were seeing raid content, IF that. It was a RP server, true, but most people didn't even RP either. It was also the second most populated sever after Illidan. Sorry to inform you, but raids are not the driving force behind WoW's popularity, but its casual pve content. Achievements, dungeons, LFR, mount collecting, pet collecting, scenarios, etc. I am not saying you are willfully ignorant, but you are still wrong. I am willing to bet you play/played on a very heavily raid centric server.

 

Personally I've raided in WoW since Vanilla up to Mists of Pandaria (worst expansion EVER), when I quit the game.  ESO doesn't have to have raid content to get me to play, as long as it has other PvE content to enjoy. If it is PvP centric you can forget it. That's one of the things that made me quit playing GW2. I am not against having PvP content, but I do not play heavy PvP games like I used to. I am 32 and simply do not have the twitch reflexes that I used to have. I will still enjoy PvP content on a casual basis, though.

 

I DO agree with other posters though, that raids should NOT have drastically better gear than other activites if they were in the game. Early Cata, for example, dungeons were extremely difficult to learn and master. So were raids, but they were about equally difficult compared to the dungeons. Yet the dungeons granted really crappy blue gear while the raid gear was unequivically better. Drastically better. I didn't see how this was fair, and I was a raider.

 

A lot (but not ALL) of raiders are extremely elitist and like to think they are special snowflakes. So many of them think that ALL purple gear is raid gear that should be gated behind raids only. "Why do you need raid gear if you don't raid?" was extremely common among the mouth-breathing elitists. Hated it.

 

just my two cents

you're 32 not 64 get a grip man. gw2 is more pve focused than pvp, the reason i left gw2 was because the wvw was terrible.

People start losing their twitch reflexes in their late 20s, early 30s. It's just not the same as when I was a teen or in my early 20s. I know I'm not 64. where it will be a lot worse :P

I played GW2 for a couple of weeks when it released and it was definitely more PvP centric than otherwise. The major thing to do back then when hitting 80 was WvWvW. That might've changed since I last played, but the bad impression was already there.

Really? Bernard Hopkins just won a world boxing title at 48. I think your reflexes will be ok for gaming for sometime yet.

Citing exceptions to the rule doesn't further your argument.  I stopped playing twitch games back in my late 20's.   Partly because I was tired of them and wanted to try something new, RPGs and partly because I couldn't react to things like I used to as a teenager.  Now in my mid 40's, it is even more exagerated and twitch combat is even more frustrating and annoying than ever.

 

I believe that if Zenimax wants to stick with their current design philosophy, which is first and foremost to make an Elder Scrolls game that appeals to Elder Scrolls gamers, then that would mean placing an emphasis on game mechanics other than raiding and it would appear that their intent is to replace raiding with RvR content.  Whatever they end up doing, they have already stated that many different paths of progression are included in the game and have verified that whether you group, solo, craft or PvP, you will be able to attain equitable loot progression from any of these paths.  So, even if they do decide to go down the raiding path, raiders may not like it anyway as they will be forced to share the uber loot.

My point is if a 48 year old man can box at a world class level, i'm sure you being 32 will be able to play twitched based video games for awhile yet. It's all in the mind anyway, it's not like your hands move independently of your brain.

That depends on the person, of course. But many of us aren't nearly as fast as we used to be.  Neuro transmission rates start to drop off, processing time increases, and old injuries come back to haunt one.  Muscle memory helps, as that doesn't need the usual processing, but encoding new muscle memory takes longer and needs more focus.

Thats one of the reasons I refuse to play console shooters like DUST 514 and such. All of my shooter muscle memory is keyboard and mouse.   I plan to try TES, if its an entertaining game, I'll play it for awile.

Now get off my lawn!... ^^

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

3/28/13 4:02:14 PM#444
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

March 25th 2013 update EDIT: We are all waiting on info to see what thats means.

 

Are we? Cuz it looks like 75% of us just don't care.

  kidas52

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/11
Posts: 26

ED 4 Life.

3/28/13 4:28:39 PM#445
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Celcius

I like how people claim they are missing a "large chunk" of people who play MMOs without raiding. This is simply not true at all. A ton of people who play MMOs don't even hit max level, let alone raid. Raiding has been the least popular part of every MMO since it's inception. Most people don't have the kind of time required for it.

GW2 has over 3 million people playing it who knew there would not be raids available. This is based on US/EU alone so consider that GW2's population is probably as much as/ more then WoW's NA population and WoW has probably the highest percentage of raiders of any MMO. I would say that is a pretty good indication that people generally don't play MMOS for raids.

Would you play Skyrim if you had to pay $15 a month to do so?

 

I think honestly a majority would say no, I dont think it's worth to have to buy Skyrim and pay $15 a month to do so. Stop acting like you just want Skyrim. This game will more likely than not be pay to play at the standard $15 a month model. They have to make this an MMORPG, not "Elder Scrolls with a friend"

Totally agree,  so sick of people saying things arent TES IP...   This isnt a TES RPG game.  Its a brand new MMORPG.

Jona ^_^

  kidas52

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/11
Posts: 26

ED 4 Life.

3/28/13 4:31:31 PM#446
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina

Since people are talking about WoW, I would not say that the majority of players raid. That is a complete fallacy. I guess on some servers like Illidan or Stormrage a lot of people raid but on my old server, Moon Guard, it was estimated that only about 4% of people were seeing raid content, IF that. It was a RP server, true, but most people didn't even RP either. It was also the second most populated sever after Illidan. Sorry to inform you, but raids are not the driving force behind WoW's popularity, but its casual pve content. Achievements, dungeons, LFR, mount collecting, pet collecting, scenarios, etc. I am not saying you are willfully ignorant, but you are still wrong. I am willing to bet you play/played on a very heavily raid centric server.

 

Personally I've raided in WoW since Vanilla up to Mists of Pandaria (worst expansion EVER), when I quit the game.  ESO doesn't have to have raid content to get me to play, as long as it has other PvE content to enjoy. If it is PvP centric you can forget it. That's one of the things that made me quit playing GW2. I am not against having PvP content, but I do not play heavy PvP games like I used to. I am 32 and simply do not have the twitch reflexes that I used to have. I will still enjoy PvP content on a casual basis, though.

 

I DO agree with other posters though, that raids should NOT have drastically better gear than other activites if they were in the game. Early Cata, for example, dungeons were extremely difficult to learn and master. So were raids, but they were about equally difficult compared to the dungeons. Yet the dungeons granted really crappy blue gear while the raid gear was unequivically better. Drastically better. I didn't see how this was fair, and I was a raider.

 

A lot (but not ALL) of raiders are extremely elitist and like to think they are special snowflakes. So many of them think that ALL purple gear is raid gear that should be gated behind raids only. "Why do you need raid gear if you don't raid?" was extremely common among the mouth-breathing elitists. Hated it.

 

just my two cents

you're 32 not 64 get a grip man. gw2 is more pve focused than pvp, the reason i left gw2 was because the wvw was terrible.

People start losing their twitch reflexes in their late 20s, early 30s. It's just not the same as when I was a teen or in my early 20s. I know I'm not 64. where it will be a lot worse :P

I played GW2 for a couple of weeks when it released and it was definitely more PvP centric than otherwise. The major thing to do back then when hitting 80 was WvWvW. That might've changed since I last played, but the bad impression was already there.

Really? Bernard Hopkins just won a world boxing title at 48. I think your reflexes will be ok for gaming for sometime yet.

Citing exceptions to the rule doesn't further your argument.  I stopped playing twitch games back in my late 20's.   Partly because I was tired of them and wanted to try something new, RPGs and partly because I couldn't react to things like I used to as a teenager.  Now in my mid 40's, it is even more exagerated and twitch combat is even more frustrating and annoying than ever.

 

I believe that if Zenimax wants to stick with their current design philosophy, which is first and foremost to make an Elder Scrolls game that appeals to Elder Scrolls gamers, then that would mean placing an emphasis on game mechanics other than raiding and it would appear that their intent is to replace raiding with RvR content.  Whatever they end up doing, they have already stated that many different paths of progression are included in the game and have verified that whether you group, solo, craft or PvP, you will be able to attain equitable loot progression from any of these paths.  So, even if they do decide to go down the raiding path, raiders may not like it anyway as they will be forced to share the uber loot.

Right so you are saying that every single person that plays Elder Scrolls games hates raiding and only wants to play solo content??   I don't think you release how much a hault each new Elder Scrolls game brought to all the raiding guilds I have ever spoken with.

Jona ^_^

  greenstoned

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 20

3/28/13 4:35:48 PM#447

cant stand raiding, and especially dont like games where all the top loot is only available thru the painfull process of collecting 15-20 or more players, coordinating them and dealing with the drama of loot distribution n various fails...

all i want from a mmo is proper pvp, i couldnt care less about raiding

  kidas52

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/11
Posts: 26

ED 4 Life.

3/28/13 4:38:55 PM#448
So you want another purely PvP focused game to last 6 months and fail again??  How does other people being able to raid and not ever PvPing in their entire game life affect you?

Jona ^_^

  greenstoned

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 20

3/28/13 4:48:09 PM#449

whatever floats your / their boat(s) man... i didnt say i want no raiding in eso, i said i dont care if theres any... the question was, can you live with no raiding, and my answer was yes, i can, as i dont care about it...

 

as far as replayability n longevity goes, ive spent a lot more time on games that allow me to pvp than games where i do the same endlesss grind on raids to eventually gear up a toon jsut to say its flashy n as high stats... to me the point of gearing up a toon is to crack skulls open with it after

 

see, from an objective point of view, i'd say a good, succesfull mmo should be "every man's game", and have a good balance between pvp n pve, n never force someone that doesnt want to do one or the other to go thru that content, so roughly equivalent gear should be available from both paths.

 

from a personal point of view tho, i cant grasp the idea of goin around pluckin flowers with 19 other fluffy carebears and actually having fun while doing it... to me in particular, the repetitive process of raid grinding will NEVER beat the ever changing process of actual pvp

 

but like i was saying, whatever floats your boat...

  BigHatLogan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/09/06
Posts: 695

3/28/13 4:49:20 PM#450

I get that some people like raids but I am quite happy if I never need to participate in one ever again.  The fun factor on raids is pretty low.  I don't think it is even that fun for people who like raiding once all the world firsts have been accomplished.   At that point it is just reading guides and playing simon says with a big group.  I don't want to end up being forced to raid to be PVP competative. 

Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!

I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  JKwervo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 140

3/28/13 6:15:33 PM#451

Here's my thing...

 

This game sounds every bit like Guild Wars 2, minus a few things:

 

1. The Twitchy mechanics, aka using mouse clicks to attack

2. Being able to wear and use whatever armor/weapons you want. 

 

Otherwise,  nothing that really seperates it from anything, except for the IP. I played GW2, and I like the game. I Just haven't played it in 3 months. Why? I got bored. 

I have a life and GW2 is super casual, which is awesome. However, after 6 level 80s (So damn easy to hit an 80 in that game without even trying) all geared out and I got my legendary with relative EASE in the beginning, there really isn't anything else. 

The PvP still need A SHIT TON of work. WvW isn't epic at all. It's Zerg around a rosey. sPvP actually has potential, but I have yet to trully see the point. 

I enjoy games, but usually it's nice to have goals. That's what allows longevity in the game. If there isn't incentives, then you don't stay. I guess incentive is also subjective....but from my PoV, TESO doesn't present anything special. 

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2180

First came pride, then envy.

3/28/13 7:17:56 PM#452

I don't like instanced raids at all.  The requirement of voice chat is a turn off in itself.  I have to admit, that wow does this right with their LFR tool.  It's not challenging, but it at least gets people to access the content, and at the same offers more challenging 10 & 25 man guild content.

If ESO ever has raids, they might be open-world raids like GW2 has them.  EQ and WoW have them too.  They come with their drawbacks though.

  Genadi

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 124

Stupidity can't be taught

3/29/13 12:46:35 AM#453
Originally posted by stevebombsquad

Actually the most social games are sandbox type games. Look at preNGE SWG. They had all kinds of social tools. People were left to their own devices to play the way they wanted. They were just given the tools. You had everything from non-combat classes to housing. People made towns, voted for mayors, and setup shops. Your class was kind of like a career. Some people would hunt or harvest and do nothing else. Everyone would interact because of the economy required it. It was very social. Much more so than WoW or GW2 where you are lucky if someone even says a word.

 

 

Someone gets it ^^^ Thank you stevebomb for restoring a little faith in the mmorpg community that has slowly been turning into the Blizzard forum last few years.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

3/29/13 5:44:34 AM#454
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by morbidlymystic
Originally posted by Caliburn101

I have hardcore raided and played games without it.

The thing I don't like about raids is the leetism and the fact thet they can be set up to effectively allow only a small % of the playerbase to do them.

The guild-focus and sense of acheivement from challenging raids is a good game element though - one subsequently usually ruined by the need to grind farm-status bosses, but fun whilst you are learning the ropes.

I think raids have a place and should be put in with the following caveats;

1. The gear they give is the best in game - but is matched by solo, small group and craftable routes

2. Gear and other rewards come in a medium term timeframe so as not to require endless farming

I mean why not have the way in which raiding works change to get rid of the bad and keep most of the good?

It really shouldn't be about either/or...

I agree with this.  I don't think raids need to be so exclusive though.  Different difficulty tiers can easily solve that problem. However, the issue that arises is the casual players demand to be able to do the higher difficulties, even if they aren't really good enough to do it.   Maybe alternate routes to gear will help, but from my experience players will want to do both routes and we are in the same shit storm again.

A common problem - but with a little imagination, easily dealt with.

Have a standard and hardmode for each raid.

There are a succession of bosses or fights whatever which gradually increase in difficulty, but above what might be seen as puggable, harder alternative modes of takedown appear - which you can choose to follow or not on a case by case basis.

Those that follow the easier standard route with 'help' from the game (or simply less adds, HP or whatever for the bosses et al) get a quarter of the gear tokens the one who opt for the hard mode get.

Also -hardmode takedowns give tabards or skins or whatever - soft rewards which allow visual differentiation without the gear etc. being different power-wise.

This has various advantages;

1. From pugs to hardcore raiders - no-one is denied the content

2. With the right starting diffculty and ramp-up of challenge, every raid of any ability get some action and some satisfaction for their time and effort.

3. The challenge profile is customisable by the raid leader during the raid - so it's a choice as to whether on any particular raid night they want to go for hardmode, and on which bosses etc.

4. Everyone eventually ends up withe the same rewards power-wise - the puggers don't get frozen out and the hardcore raiders get theirs quicker and with visual differentiation or guild reward fluff - for the bragging rights.

Thing I love in mmorpgs is farm and grind. So yea, maybe for you not but many loves it :)

And now .. tell me, why should HC players/elitist who plays 10+ hours a day be on equal footing/have same gear as casual/avarage players? Do we live in communism? hmm

 

WildStar got this right, no more dumping down content so everyone can get into it. You cant beat it you cant beat it. End

 

If those casuals, bad players or whatever you want to call them arent good enought, dont have enought time, or whatever reason they have to not raid or not to be able to beat the bosses. That is their problem.

Strong wins, weak lose .. I dont drive Bentley and I dont make millions per month as those rich people do .. Do I complain? Ofcourse not. Even if someone did .. No one would ever care. There is no such thing as same footing ...

So tell me again, why should everyone be on same footing in mmorpg? Those who plays 15 hours a day and those who plays 2 hours a day? No one is denied content (except f2p games maybe), everyone can get and beat the hardest bosses if they put enought effort into it, if they dont (for whatever reasons.. kids, time, work, lazyness, ...) thats their problem and they should not be able to just do some easy mode of it ... just lol, this is why I left wow, gw2, etc. Everyone cares about noobs and casuals too much.

 

I didn't say people should be on the same footing - read it again.

The guy with the Bentley PAYS MORE - less hardcore players pay the same as 24/7 players. It's financial suicide for a game to be built around the hardcore minority.

I am proposing a game which caters for both types of players - with the hardcore getting stuff much sooner and casuals much later. With visual differentiation in there too - that's all the advantage a compromise on this issue is capable of delivering.

I would never describe people who play mst f their waking hours as 'strong' - and casuals are the majority of customers with generally more money due to having more involved jobs etc. It's plain crazy for a comany selling smethng to ignore them.

Bad players, casuals with little time etc. will still get to raid if thy can organise it, but won't face the hardest challenges and will progress slower - just what is wrong with this?

It is worlds better than people leaving a game frustrated because of gated content they can't even see except on Youtube...

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1910

3/29/13 11:37:36 AM#455
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Quorina

Since people are talking about WoW, I would not say that the majority of players raid. That is a complete fallacy. I guess on some servers like Illidan or Stormrage a lot of people raid but on my old server, Moon Guard, it was estimated that only about 4% of people were seeing raid content, IF that. It was a RP server, true, but most people didn't even RP either. It was also the second most populated sever after Illidan. Sorry to inform you, but raids are not the driving force behind WoW's popularity, but its casual pve content. Achievements, dungeons, LFR, mount collecting, pet collecting, scenarios, etc. I am not saying you are willfully ignorant, but you are still wrong. I am willing to bet you play/played on a very heavily raid centric server.

 

Personally I've raided in WoW since Vanilla up to Mists of Pandaria (worst expansion EVER), when I quit the game.  ESO doesn't have to have raid content to get me to play, as long as it has other PvE content to enjoy. If it is PvP centric you can forget it. That's one of the things that made me quit playing GW2. I am not against having PvP content, but I do not play heavy PvP games like I used to. I am 32 and simply do not have the twitch reflexes that I used to have. I will still enjoy PvP content on a casual basis, though.

 

I DO agree with other posters though, that raids should NOT have drastically better gear than other activites if they were in the game. Early Cata, for example, dungeons were extremely difficult to learn and master. So were raids, but they were about equally difficult compared to the dungeons. Yet the dungeons granted really crappy blue gear while the raid gear was unequivically better. Drastically better. I didn't see how this was fair, and I was a raider.

 

A lot (but not ALL) of raiders are extremely elitist and like to think they are special snowflakes. So many of them think that ALL purple gear is raid gear that should be gated behind raids only. "Why do you need raid gear if you don't raid?" was extremely common among the mouth-breathing elitists. Hated it.

 

just my two cents

you're 32 not 64 get a grip man. gw2 is more pve focused than pvp, the reason i left gw2 was because the wvw was terrible.

People start losing their twitch reflexes in their late 20s, early 30s. It's just not the same as when I was a teen or in my early 20s. I know I'm not 64. where it will be a lot worse :P

I played GW2 for a couple of weeks when it released and it was definitely more PvP centric than otherwise. The major thing to do back then when hitting 80 was WvWvW. That might've changed since I last played, but the bad impression was already there.

Really? Bernard Hopkins just won a world boxing title at 48. I think your reflexes will be ok for gaming for sometime yet.

Citing exceptions to the rule doesn't further your argument.  I stopped playing twitch games back in my late 20's.   Partly because I was tired of them and wanted to try something new, RPGs and partly because I couldn't react to things like I used to as a teenager.  Now in my mid 40's, it is even more exagerated and twitch combat is even more frustrating and annoying than ever.

 

I believe that if Zenimax wants to stick with their current design philosophy, which is first and foremost to make an Elder Scrolls game that appeals to Elder Scrolls gamers, then that would mean placing an emphasis on game mechanics other than raiding and it would appear that their intent is to replace raiding with RvR content.  Whatever they end up doing, they have already stated that many different paths of progression are included in the game and have verified that whether you group, solo, craft or PvP, you will be able to attain equitable loot progression from any of these paths.  So, even if they do decide to go down the raiding path, raiders may not like it anyway as they will be forced to share the uber loot.

My point is if a 48 year old man can box at a world class level, i'm sure you being 32 will be able to play twitched based video games for awhile yet. It's all in the mind anyway, it's not like your hands move independently of your brain.

One, you are assuming people age the same way.  Two, you are assuming people's tastes remain the same as they age.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1910

3/29/13 11:43:43 AM#456
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Genadi

Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

 

That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

What? Teamwork=socialization. Last I checked easy content does not promote it, and infact is often worse off with teamwork, for a variety of reasons.

No, it's the fact that you guys think that solo / casual gaming is the antithesis of socializing and that is incredibly ignorant.

  elohssa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 41

3/29/13 1:31:41 PM#457
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Genadi

Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

 

That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

What? Teamwork=socialization. Last I checked easy content does not promote it, and infact is often worse off with teamwork, for a variety of reasons.

No, it's the fact that you guys think that solo / casual gaming is the antithesis of socializing and that is incredibly ignorant.

 

No its 100% fact.  You aren't socializing by yourself, duh.  Faceroll dungeons never need any sort of communication, not even chat FFS.  Nevemind REAL communication like on voice communication programs.   Everyone you play with are strangers, and forgotten with 5 seconds after leaving the group.

 

Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch a fraps of LFR in WOW prior to the loot fix.   It was like watching starved cage beast fight over meat. 

  elohssa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 41

3/29/13 1:38:33 PM#458
Originally posted by Caliburn10

I didn't say people should be on the same footing - read it again.

The guy with the Bentley PAYS MORE - less hardcore players pay the same as 24/7 players. It's financial suicide for a game to be built around the hardcore minority.

I am proposing a game which caters for both types of players - with the hardcore getting stuff much sooner and casuals much later. With visual differentiation in there too - that's all the advantage a compromise on this issue is capable of delivering.

I would never describe people who play mst f their waking hours as 'strong' - and casuals are the majority of customers with generally more money due to having more involved jobs etc. It's plain crazy for a comany selling smethng to ignore them.

Bad players, casuals with little time etc. will still get to raid if thy can organise it, but won't face the hardest challenges and will progress slower - just what is wrong with this?

It is worlds better than people leaving a game frustrated because of gated content they can't even see except on Youtube...

 

Its the perfect in game system.  The casuals would never go for it though because they are at their core entitilist.  They would rather see this game devolve into just another obscure mmo than to submit that time, effort, and group coordination should yield more results than farming ore. 

 

They would like nothing better than just another wow clone permalocked on mickey mouse mode, and no real end game to speak of.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3566

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/29/13 3:29:05 PM#459
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by Caliburn10

I didn't say people should be on the same footing - read it again.

The guy with the Bentley PAYS MORE - less hardcore players pay the same as 24/7 players. It's financial suicide for a game to be built around the hardcore minority.

I am proposing a game which caters for both types of players - with the hardcore getting stuff much sooner and casuals much later. With visual differentiation in there too - that's all the advantage a compromise on this issue is capable of delivering.

I would never describe people who play mst f their waking hours as 'strong' - and casuals are the majority of customers with generally more money due to having more involved jobs etc. It's plain crazy for a comany selling smethng to ignore them.

Bad players, casuals with little time etc. will still get to raid if thy can organise it, but won't face the hardest challenges and will progress slower - just what is wrong with this?

It is worlds better than people leaving a game frustrated because of gated content they can't even see except on Youtube...

 

Its the perfect in game system.  The casuals would never go for it though because they are at their core entitilist.  They would rather see this game devolve into just another obscure mmo than to submit that time, effort, and group coordination should yield more results than farming ore. 

 

They would like nothing better than just another wow clone permalocked on mickey mouse mode, and no real end game to speak of.

Thats a rather broad brush you are painting with there... I could just as well say that raiders are at their core, control freaks, who have tied their self worth into achievements in a video game... Neither of course, would be the truth.  Some so called "casuals" are suffering from a serious entitlement complex. Just as some raiders, are total control freak, nut cases.

But I'd say that many of both groups are just looking for entertainment, not a second job.  But entertainment is different things to different people.   I fell off of the raiding band wagon years ago. I lack the patience and extended focus required for it.  I also gave up on heroics.  Which means that I tend to do the normal dungeons a few times (to see the content) and then go play something else.

The new scenarios are one of my favorite parts of 5.2.  They are actually fun to me, and the reward box allows me to at least partially gear up my characters.  Which gets them ready for the next expansion, when ever that comes out.  Then the gear grind starts all over again.  But thats the nature of these games.

 

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1910

3/29/13 6:17:47 PM#460
Originally posted by elohssa
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Genadi

Hard content demands that you group together and form thos social aspects.  Easy content allows you to be anti-social and play by yourself.

 

That is such a ridiculous statement and so incorrect in so many ways. If you don't see how it's not my place to explain, I would only suggest play some more mmorpg's and do your homework before you post such dribble.

What? Teamwork=socialization. Last I checked easy content does not promote it, and infact is often worse off with teamwork, for a variety of reasons.

No, it's the fact that you guys think that solo / casual gaming is the antithesis of socializing and that is incredibly ignorant.

 

No its 100% fact.  You aren't socializing by yourself, duh.  Faceroll dungeons never need any sort of communication, not even chat FFS.  Nevemind REAL communication like on voice communication programs.   Everyone you play with are strangers, and forgotten with 5 seconds after leaving the group.

 

Anyone who thinks otherwise should watch a fraps of LFR in WOW prior to the loot fix.   It was like watching starved cage beast fight over meat. 

Maybe you don't and you should look into that, but when I solo, I am constantly chatting and running into people and interacting with them via chat or run by buffs and heals or temporarily helping with combat.  There's the whole crafting dynamic that is solo oriented, yet completely social dependent.  If anything is killing social aspects of a game, it's the switch to fast paced action combat, which makes it physically impossible to communicate via keyboard while adventuring solo or grouped.

 

By the way, you have to show some real proof before you start spouting stuff like 100% fact.  It's one thing to say something is likely to happen as a result of something else and it's quite another to jump on your soap box and screaming "Facts" at the top of your voice.

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