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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » There are no raids... can you live with that?

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549 posts found
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19068

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/22/13 7:48:50 AM#21

I don't raid anymore, in fact I eschew games where the primary end game is focused around it.

Still on the fence about whether or not to play TESO, but the fact it doesn't have raiding is actually a positive as I view it.

 

"Someone once told me, there is always someone more powerful than you." - Nicola [Bunraku]
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

3/22/13 7:49:32 AM#22
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

The forum poll from the link you posted, kind of kills the purpose of that thread.

The number of people who voted "don't care" and "no raids" outnumbers those who want raids.  Despite the low number of people who voted on that topic, lets assume it is a decent sample size and reflects the view of the TESO population.  From that poll, it would not be a smart idea to dedicate resources to develop raiding content.

(they could have provided different questions to make raiding seem more popular I guess)

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

3/22/13 7:49:57 AM#23
Originally posted by Livnthedream

I hear no raids are doing wonders for TSW. Also, inb4 "massive group events are the same as raidz!".

 

TSW is a full raiding treadmill game, they just can't pump it out fast enough. TSW has millions of problems though, so it's a poor measuring stick for the solvency of ANY feature.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3457

 
OP  3/22/13 7:50:46 AM#24
Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

3/22/13 7:51:15 AM#25
As long as there is enough challenging groupcontent its not a problem...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 7:51:46 AM#26
Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

Cyrodill gives no unique items and such that we're aware of. It seems much more of a casual thing to do for fun. You really think this game is gonna be all - end all with Cyrodill? I sure hope that isnt Zenimax's plan. PvP endgame survives on World PvP (And Cyrodill hardly counts as World PvP to me, its designed. World PvP isnt designed, it just happens wherever you see the opposition, which isnt the case) and stuff like Arenas/Battlegrounds. If Cyrodill is their end-game plan since there is no raiding, then I am concerned. It sounds like crafting is the be all end all of getting gear, so I doubt these World Bosses give anything unique and are just a for fun thing. And lets be honest, do you see yourself doing the same World Boss 20 times if it offers nothing new or better?

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1820

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/22/13 7:51:47 AM#27

The only MMO I played that had raids was WoW. I do not count rift which I quit after 30 levels.

Despite the fact that I did enjoy them in WoW, raids are still among the least important features of MMO, for me.

It is about the principles, mechanisms, complexity, not about how many rides there are in the game.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3457

 
OP  3/22/13 7:53:32 AM#28
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
As long as there is enough challenging groupcontent its not a problem...

16 dungeons and not all have level 50 hard mode but they hope to have that sometime after launch. Is that enough?

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

3/22/13 7:54:16 AM#29
Originally posted by hMJem

I ask you to answer my biggest question above: Why does Raiding with unique gear hurt the game if theyre forcing you to craft and do all 3 factions for the best gear, and where does this game sit after 2 months of launch?

 This argument has been going on since EQ1 brought in super uber godly swords of burn your face off for sitting in the same spot for HOURS waiting for a mob to spawn.

Gear should never be the single focus of a game and that is exactly what raids for loot content does. If you DONT do it, you get left behind and content suddenyl becomes out of reach to the playerbase.

WHY? Why should content have to have a shiney that makes a player more powerful? WHY? Why does the games focus then have to turn to making harder and harder content without end? There is NO point. An MMO should be focused on making content that is ALWAYS viable because it is NOT POSSIBLE for a company to keep up if content in the game, becomes no longer playable.

Let the super uber dragon god of destruction drop costume that changes the LOOK of your armor to something cool, a flag, a weapon SKIN, a cool mount or pet...something that is for LOOKS. There is your shiney. A shiney that still points to you having accomplished something yet doesnt imbalance the game.

This is where you respond with the a typical refute thats been done to death the last 13+ years that actually doesnt refute anything and just smacks of I NEED AN ADVANTAGE IN PVP SO GIVE ME MAH UBER LOOT SO I CAN HAZ FACEROLLZ!

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

3/22/13 7:54:23 AM#30
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

said population is overstated. TSW is a treadmill game with raiding, SWTOR same, RIFT same, all down to catastrophic player loss within 6-8 months and forced F2P. 

 

Frior saw first hand, he doesn't need you forum kids contemplating for him. he helped to KILL DAoC by introducing PVE riaid grinding in a game where it wasn't wanted. all that happens now is jesse cox and all the rest of blizzrd's afterbirth will leave slightly faster than they would have anyway and TESO will likely find its own path.

  Sasami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 330

3/22/13 7:54:41 AM#31
I voted no. If raid would still mean getting closer to 50 people together I wouldn't miss them but 10 man raids were such a fun in WoW. I really think they have to rethink this decision in long run.
  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/22/13 7:55:23 AM#32
Originally posted by Maephisto
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

The forum poll from the link you posted, kind of kills the purpose of that thread.

The number of people who voted "don't care" and "no raids" outnumbers those who want raids.  Despite the low number of people who voted on that topic, lets assume it is a decent sample size and reflects the view of the TESO population.  From that poll, it would not be a smart idea to dedicate resources to develop raiding content.

(they could have provided different questions to make raiding seem more popular I guess)

If thats the case then I guess the numerous polls where housing pops up similar results means housing should not be included either then right? The fact is those who "don't care either way" are generally those who just have no made up their mind on the topic.

Originally posted by Rthuth434
Originally posted by Livnthedream

I hear no raids are doing wonders for TSW. Also, inb4 "massive group events are the same as raidz!".

 

TSW is a full raiding treadmill game, they just can't pump it out fast enough. TSW has millions of problems though, so it's a poor measuring stick for the solvency of ANY feature.

Wrong. Its played like that by many because the strategy works and those ingame push it, but it honestly is not. The gear caps and general progression model actually does not play well into vertical progression at all. Though I will agree that TSW has a ton of different issues that all connect in various ways.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3457

 
OP  3/22/13 7:56:15 AM#33
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

Cyrodill gives no unique items and such that we're aware of. It seems much more of a casual thing to do for fun. You really think this game is gonna be all - end all with Cyrodill? I sure hope that isnt Zenimax's plan. PvP endgame survives on World PvP (And Cyrodill hardly counts as World PvP to me, its designed. World PvP isnt designed, it just happens wherever you see the opposition, which isnt the case) and stuff like Arenas/Battlegrounds. If Cyrodill is their end-game plan since there is no raiding, then I am concerned. It sounds like crafting is the be all end all of getting gear, so I doubt these World Bosses give anything unique and are just a for fun thing. And lets be honest, do you see yourself doing the same World Boss 20 times if it offers nothing new or better?

I have done many a raid just because it was fun and I already had all the gear I wanted. Im not a gear hound but I know not all raiders think like me.

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

3/22/13 7:58:59 AM#34
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maephisto
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

The forum poll from the link you posted, kind of kills the purpose of that thread.

The number of people who voted "don't care" and "no raids" outnumbers those who want raids.  Despite the low number of people who voted on that topic, lets assume it is a decent sample size and reflects the view of the TESO population.  From that poll, it would not be a smart idea to dedicate resources to develop raiding content.

(they could have provided different questions to make raiding seem more popular I guess)

If thats the case then I guess the numerous polls where housing pops up similar results means housing should not be included either then right? The fact is those who "don't care either way" are generally those who just have no made up their mind on the topic.

Originally posted by Rthuth434
Originally posted by Livnthedream

I hear no raids are doing wonders for TSW. Also, inb4 "massive group events are the same as raidz!".

 

TSW is a full raiding treadmill game, they just can't pump it out fast enough. TSW has millions of problems though, so it's a poor measuring stick for the solvency of ANY feature.

Wrong. Its played like that by many because the strategy works and those ingame push it, but it honestly is not. The gear caps and general progression model actually does not play well into vertical progression at all. Though I will agree that TSW has a ton of different issues that all connect in various ways.

it doesn't play well into vertical progression because the content is barebones and wont last even with the 16 hour lockouts. there is a full fleshed out tier heiarchy thoguh and it does have the single greatest effect on player peformance in pve and pve...like every gear treadmil game. the progression in TSw is completely linear and vertcal, 100%.

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 554

3/22/13 7:59:39 AM#35
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

So can you live with a MMO that has no raids? Or will that make ESO a pit stop for you before you run off to a new MMO that you and your guildies can really enjoy?

Info comes from HERE!!!! : There are no raids, after all – "That's not Elder Scrolls," says Game Director Matt Firor – but there are four-man dungeons and three-faction open PvP with sieges in the beleaguered province of Cyrodiil.

POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

This game is going to be more of a PVP game than a PVE game so I am not surprised.  I am not going to play because I like raiding, yea I play SWTOR now and only do 8 man raiding.  Thats what I find fun to each their own.

  apocoluster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1297

\m/,

3/22/13 8:01:07 AM#36
I don't do group content soooo.....

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

3/22/13 8:01:21 AM#37
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by kabitoshin
This game to me seems like its main focus will be the PvP.

Cyrodill gives no unique items and such that we're aware of. It seems much more of a casual thing to do for fun. You really think this game is gonna be all - end all with Cyrodill? I sure hope that isnt Zenimax's plan. PvP endgame survives on World PvP (And Cyrodill hardly counts as World PvP to me, its designed. World PvP isnt designed, it just happens wherever you see the opposition, which isnt the case) and stuff like Arenas/Battlegrounds. If Cyrodill is their end-game plan since there is no raiding, then I am concerned. It sounds like crafting is the be all end all of getting gear, so I doubt these World Bosses give anything unique and are just a for fun thing. And lets be honest, do you see yourself doing the same World Boss 20 times if it offers nothing new or better?

I have done many a raid just because it was fun and I already had all the gear I wanted. Im not a gear hound but I know not all raiders think like me.

i like the feeling of logging on and feeling like I can improve my character. I dont want to log on and be like "Well time to do my routine explorations of finding materials for crafting" I love the immersion and such, dont get me wrong. But when I'm 50, then I want to improve (while still having fun) I am sure doing the other two factions will be fun. THEN WHAT THOUGH?! Because I guarantee you if this game is pay to play, anyone who wants to complete all three factions will have done so after a couple months.

 

If I'm Zenimax, I ask myself "Which group is going to keep this game alive longer -- The Elder Scrolls diehards, or the MMORPG fans?" and I don't have a clear answer. My gut tells me after the first few months, it is the MMORPG fans that keep the game alive and strong, but maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's dead even.

 

See, there will be elitists no matter what you play. You know there are Super Smash Brothers Brawl tournaments? That game was designed as a party game and people play it with thousands of dollars on the line. Imagine if the World Bosses are actually hard -- and a group has to ask you to leave or not accept you because youre not understanding the fight and are hurting the team or arent skilled enough for it? What is the difference in that? What if someone doesnt want you in a 4 man dungeon if its hard because youre incompetent and hurting the team there too?

 

I also liked the idea of some of the monsters in a raid or the boss in a raid dropping a rare crafting material everyone gets. Then Raiders have reason to be crafters and crafters have reason to dabble in Raids. If your answer is "Great, I'm a casual who is forced to Raid' No. You really dont. You see, one way or another, you'll have to invest time to get the best gear in the game if that is your goal. If youre playing for immersion and the single player experience, you have hundreds of hours of content dedicated to you with the three factions questing and with crafting.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/22/13 8:04:01 AM#38
Originally posted by Rthuth434

it doesn't play well into vertical progression because the content is barebones and wont last even with the 16 hour lockouts. there is a full fleshed out tier heiarchy thoguh and it does have the single greatest effect on player peformance in pve and pve...like every gear treadmil game. the progression in TSw is completely linear and vertcal, 100%.

Its not actually linear though thanks to how deminishing returns and opposing stats work. It is one of TSW's many problems, its dev team has no clue how to effectively use the systems they already have set in place.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Bossalinie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 621

3/22/13 8:04:54 AM#39
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Nadia

im fine without raids

but that will be a turnoff for others

Does that not concern you? That this could take away from your MMO just by the fact there is a population that will just quit after they get level 50 because of no raids for that type of player.

If they were looking to do something you didn't participate in anyways, would you miss them? It really should never concern you what others do just as long as you are getting enjoyment out of the product.

  spookydom

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/08
Posts: 1807

I'm a lvl 50 Batman!

3/22/13 8:07:13 AM#40
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by spookydom
I am more than happy without  raids, never really like the elitist crap and drooling tools it brings to the table. However it seems a bit like they are cutting of their nose to spite their face not including it for the very lucrative audience that enjoys it.

Not all raiders are elitist. I used to be a hard core raider back in my EQ1 days but now I dont care if I get best gear in the game but I do like lrage scale PvE raids my guildies and I can go do. Raids dont even need to give the best gear in the game, just equal to it. If they are fun and a challange is all most raiders need.

Yeah I was generalising too much. I was a hardcore raider for years and wasn't elitest either....But from time to time I was a drooling tool ;)

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