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Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
Distribution: | Retail Price:$59.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
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151 posts found
  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/23/13 1:20:53 PM#141
Originally posted by Betakodo

Oh man, I'm not up to date with the MMO raid numbers so a man named Sephiroth thinks I've made a fool of myself! The shame!

Anyways, I was talking about DKP in relation to being in a guild. How many people want the raid goods and just join any guild that's open? The problem with raids are you are stuck trying to find a guild that actually has space and on top of that, you don't wanna leave because you'll lose your DKP. Finding a "Good" guild is part luck, it's not easy getting the stars aligned so that you get a decent leader, an active guild, people who aren't _____, etc.

With 4 man dungeons, or even 5, you're not stuck hoping to find a good guild. The number's small enough to be able to find a pick up a group and not be gimped because you didn't become a slave to a guild. You can weed out the douches with a simple blacklist/block and friends list the nice players.

This completely selfish attitude is what many dislike about current game design. Things like lfr/lfd reinforce this behavior and does not force people to learn how to work well with others.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5183

Opportunist

3/23/13 2:34:17 PM#142
If they do add traditional raiding, it will be interesting to see how they try and balance loot.  Raiders won't stand for anyone else having equal drops or progression.  You can tell by their attitude in this thread that they already value themselves and their activity above others - using words like baddie and such.  I want to see how they'll work themselves out of this one or if the'll cave and just itemize the best stuff behind the raids.
  laokoko

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1845

3/23/13 3:03:33 PM#143
Originally posted by Torvaldr
If they do add traditional raiding, it will be interesting to see how they try and balance loot.  Raiders won't stand for anyone else having equal drops or progression.  You can tell by their attitude in this thread that they already value themselves and their activity above others - using words like baddie and such.  I want to see how they'll work themselves out of this one or if the'll cave and just itemize the best stuff behind the raids.

ya I mean.  Raider are just people.  Non raider are just people too.

You are not bothered because they are raider.  You are bothered because they sound like assal.

Let me put it this way, when I "did" actually play wow.  That was like 5 years ago.  The forum are full of post by non raider complaining they can't get good loot.  It's the same for everyone.  Raider or non raider, they can't stand other people have better loot.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/23/13 3:58:03 PM#144
Originally posted by Torvaldr
If they do add traditional raiding, it will be interesting to see how they try and balance loot.  Raiders won't stand for anyone else having equal drops or progression.  You can tell by their attitude in this thread that they already value themselves and their activity above others - using words like baddie and such.  I want to see how they'll work themselves out of this one or if the'll cave and just itemize the best stuff behind the raids.

Oh poor Torvaldr, where did the raider touch you? While the argument can be made that raiding has always been about gear, even in its inception, its much more about being rewarded for effort. Pretty much every time the complaints have started in earnest its been due to poor rewards. During Burning Crusade for example when Karazhan was dropping the same ilvl as heroics, but required much more effort in both time and skill to be able to obtain, especially with how poorly itemized so much of Karazhans loot was. Also, if you really want to go into elitism, then you need to look at your own pvp segment, afterall it is where most of those terms originated.

 

Misrepresentation aside, it is a rather valid question. Itemization is going to be key, especially with as wide open a system as they have displayed. I have the feeling that gear in general is going to have to either be very easy to get or so bland it will not matter a great deal, especially when you consider how they plan on balancing pvp and the like.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  laokoko

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1845

3/23/13 4:33:19 PM#145
Originally posted by JasonJ
Originally posted by laokoko

Me personally I just think Elder scroll "can't" have raid because of the combat and profession design dont' allow them to do it.

It is kind of like GW2, I just think GW2 can't have raid because their combat system dont' enable them to design raid content.

That being said, if you don't like raid, you dont' ahve to raid.  I dont' understand how it bothers people that don't like to raid to have raid in the game.  Especially for a game that have like 300 million budget.

 

 Actually I will disagree greatly here.

You can have raid content with open classes. Asherons Call had massive boss mobs that took several groups to down, and GW2 has open world events that require 15+ to take down, a few that require 25+.

While it is HARDER for the players, because they actually have to LEARN their role instead of being TOLD what it is, it can still be done.

Personally I would have NO ISSUES AT ALL WITH RAIDS in a game, if raiders could ever tear themselves away from the idea that raiding requires uber loot that are ultra shiney that causes game imabalances on every level.

Raiding "to me" isn't about how many people they are.  I mean people keep saying GW2 have raiding because there are open world boss, but even the GW2 developer says their game don't have raiding.

What I meant is raiding content which is actually difficult.  And when you want to design difficult conent it usually have to revolve around min/maxer.  Now when you look at all those games with more "open" roles, it become very clear that the class is very unbalance in pve. 

It is not that those games can't design "difficult raid".  The problem is they can't balance those class or build in specific for raiding.

  jay8118

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/11
Posts: 29

3/23/13 4:46:15 PM#146

Being a raider in WoW, Rift, and that star wars game....I can live with no raiding in this game, it does get repetitive even if you are downing bosses. I think they do need some kind of large scale PvE though, doesn't necessarily have to be instanced raids.

With hearing you are able to make craftable items just as good as dungeon/pvp loot, there still needs to be some sort of grind to make your character better than the next person. Sadly this is what happens in gaming, not by everyone but you would be surprised how many players want to be better than the next.

Balance is another key as someone else mentioned. They seem to working on that with dungeons already. With many of the combinations of characters you are able to build I see less balance problems then of a game with specific classes and tree's.

Still sounds like a very fun game either way, NEED GAMEPLAY VIDS (and beta)

  Rinna

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/04
Posts: 367

3/24/13 8:43:28 PM#147
I too, am fine with no raids.

No bitchers.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4106

Trolls will be ignored

3/24/13 9:39:14 PM#148
Originally posted by Fion

Why no raids? Because raids are freaking boring. They exist simply to addict the gamer to the game with a regular dopamine hit and extend a games life by adding boring content you have to do a hundred times over to get your 'l33t g34r!' Kill me now!

There are several successful MMOGs around now that don't have raids. It's my hope they die a horrible death.

I second this. For the life of me I don't get what players see in RAIDs. They are interesting the first time through, but that's it. I'd rather pull teeth than do that over and over again. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2392

3/24/13 9:41:14 PM#149
Originally posted by RelGn

I dont think it's about harm dude.I think it's about time.

Time is money and guess what companies care only for your money and not what you want.

Once they get all your money they dont care.

1st person may be more easy to be implemented than raids which means less time which again means MORE MONEY FOR THEM!!

They got time for voice acting worth bs but not raids... perfect example of bad prioritzation agian.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  neroist

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 24

3/25/13 10:34:39 AM#150

Raiding doesn't have to be like it is in WoW. I have played DDO for 7 years. Raiding there is quite fun. The gear is some of the best but the raid only takes 15 mins to 1 hour to complete. They are instanced encounters with many many mechanics other than just beat down the bad guy handle mobs.  No tier gear in fact there is a weapon I got in a raid that is still one the best in game and 4 raids have came it since . Also a mix of the gear you get from questing on the hardest diffuclty and raids is what you strive for. You craft to make them stronger. The raids are absolutly the best part of the game.  80-90% of the populations does them and their is a great comunity becuase of it.

DDO is showing it age now and alot of my friends are looking for another game. I hope ESO takes a look of what is out there and not just the WoW modle of tier gear becuase it makes previous gear worthless.

  Fion

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2356

forums.3305local.com

We are recruiting.

3/25/13 3:02:29 PM#151
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by Fion

Why no raids? Because raids are freaking boring. They exist simply to addict the gamer to the game with a regular dopamine hit and extend a games life by adding boring content you have to do a hundred times over to get your 'l33t g34r!' Kill me now!

There are several successful MMOGs around now that don't have raids. It's my hope they die a horrible death.

I second this. For the life of me I don't get what players see in RAIDs. They are interesting the first time through, but that's it. I'd rather pull teeth than do that over and over again. 

Oh someone who agrees with me lol. 

I will admit the first time confronting a new boss, learning how to beat it, that's fun. But once you have a boss down and have to kill grind that dungeon & boss once a week for the next six months to get that one drop you want, it becomes crazy boring. Add the exclusivity of raiding, where only a small percentage of your playerbase ever even sees the biggest baddies, and I think the problem becomes even larger, as developers cater to that few taking on the top content (and constantly screaming for more of it, and the many who will never see any of it.

A good example is Northrend and the ~10% of the playerbase who defeated Arthur at the end of that expansion. Sure for those that did, it was great. They might have gotten that 'x item that only 5 other people on the server have', but for the vast majority who never saw that fight it was content Blizzard developed for the few, who constantly sream for more.. and not for the many who will never see the top stuff. I'm not against exclusivity, but it needs to be a small part of a game, not the largest part as it always is in raiding MMOGs.

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