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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » A Very Simple Solution...

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229 posts found
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 3:13:11 PM#81
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Strictly, sure. Its not realistic that ALL of a given race would unite. However, mechanics trumps fluff. There is a reason even now you will find so many absurd fights on the internet, pirates vs ninjas, superman vs goku, horde vs alliance, star wars vs star trek, team jacob vs team edward. Why? Becuase being part of an easily identifiable team brings out the herd mentality in us. It helps us belong. It also helps that easily identifying races by looks will tell you ally vs enemy, often faster than mere colors, or healthbars will. Its programmed into us instinctually. Hurray for evolution.  and yeah, considering that your little handful have hijacked oh 10 or so topics now I am quite fine with those who actually want to discuss things kicking ya'll out of one for once. Taste of your own medicine is good for you. Those who yell loudest and all that.

Mechanics doesn't trump anything, in a well desigend game the mechanics, setting and fluffy fit naturally together.  If they are having to do a lot of retcon to fit the story into something else, then they should consider what direction they are going.

But there is very little actual retcon going on. Every game with any sort of faction based conflict does this, it has to because thats how the human brain is wired. Sure, they could go to the trouble of fleshing out a system like Eq, but it does not actually add anything to what they are trying to accomplish, is expenisve, and only a small percentage are even going to care, and of those the majority are going to play anyway. The number that are actually not going to play because one race is teamed with another is quite small.

It's hard to identify someone by their race when they are fully decked out in armor w/helmet (unless you count tails).  TES games normally do not have faction pride, just because it worked in DAoC doesn't mean it's gonna work in ESO.

That depends on how they do armor. If they restrict armor by race for example. They have said that anyone can wear any type of armor and weild any type of weapon, they did not say what styles those would be in. As for realm pride, that is entirely dependant on MECHANICS. Ip has literally nothing to do that. Hell, look at Wow and the sheer number that threw an absolute caniption fit about the Forsaken being allowed to join the Horde before release. Your groups complaints on the matter are pretty much just as absurd.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17011

3/14/13 3:16:13 PM#82
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Because rewarding a single person for a group effort does not go over well when the vast majority of your playerbase are selfish twats.

Isn't that the same thing the Emporer system is doing?  This is a group game, a player isn't going to be the top ranked player by playing by himself.

Different rewarding someone with a temp title over giving them a power boots in PvP. If you missed it on the last page it works like this... When a battle over Cyrodiil is won, they take up a tally of the winning side. DPS, Healing and what ever metrics they use to work that out, who ever gets the highest score is Emperoro. I think its kinda cool. I know I wont play enough to have that happen to me but would be cool IMO. 

A solo player has as much chance of winning the title as a team player.

hmmmm that's intriguing though weird.

I would say fair over weird. Why should solo or grouped or guildied members be rewarded better then the other group. Should be skill based IMO.

I mean, obviously I come from a very different place with expectations and preferences. I think that it's weird because "The emperor" could be a person with no affiliations, no political ties, just some guy who did well.

From a "game" perspective it makes sense but from a world perspective it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Now watch, I decide to play the game and become the emperor.

oh the irony.

  pokrak

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 86

there is always another battle to win

3/14/13 3:18:14 PM#83
I need to try it first before I start talk about what to change.  Im not TES fun at all either DAoC funboy (never played). What drag me into TESO is 3factions pvp with locked races. Sure thing there should be way to explore and do some pvp on enemys territories (no low lvls ganking!). Hopefully devs lisen to TES funs, I dont like to see this game die coz of TES fans disappointment... Most important for me is combat system and iteresting pvp(but its just my fav)... Good luck with changing Tamriel 
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 3:25:48 PM#84
Originally posted by sapphen

I wonder if it's also time based or only for hardcore players.  It just seems like this system is rewarding only a small percent of the population.

Well duh? Its supposed to. Its also supposed to entice players to want to BE that top player. That is why its called motivation. It does not work on all players, but it works on a great many.

Plus, why doesn't the faction leaders want to be Emperor - I thought that was the whole reason for the war.

Whats the point of a game of chess? To be the only king left standing. To many players though its simply to beat the other player.

Originally posted by Distopia

This really isn't any different than Sap's idea's, at least in the area of benefit to the games design. An explorer's add on if you will. Yet without the PVP.

While I see nothing wrong with adding that sort of thing, I wonder what tangible benefit it would have on the overall experience, not to mention the complaint about "doing it all on one character like TES does it". This is no fix for that.

Sapps idea at least made a bit more sense, as he had a gameplay element in mind, player formed wars and such.

This idea seems more on the novelty side, and I'm not sure novelty is an area we should be wanting development to be focusing on at the crucial point this game has entered. Beta is right around the corner, which means everything is just about in place.

That aside, I'm all for wishes and dreams, if I had my way everyone would be happy, but that's a dream in itself.

 

Even in Tes games though you can't "do it all". Doing guild quests generally locks you from doing others as you have to do things that offend those other guilds during gameplay. Its a large part of what gives it replayability. There is also the sheer psychology involved with rerolling in the first place. Those who are primarily pvers generally do not overly care about faction pride and the like because it does not overly effect them. Those are the ones who will reroll the same class even to experience the "new content" from the other sides point of view. While generally if a pvper rerolls its to gain access to new abilities, or because they wish to fight for a different faction thanks to pop/skill/whatever reason they use to justify it this time.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17011

3/14/13 3:37:20 PM#85
Originally posted by jimdandy26

 

Even in Tes games though you can't "do it all". Doing guild quests generally locks you from doing others as you have to do things that offend those other guilds during gameplay. Its a large part of what gives it replayability.

Actualy that hasn't been true since Morrowind.

And yes I'm disapointed about that as well.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 3:41:23 PM#86
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jimdandy26

 

Even in Tes games though you can't "do it all". Doing guild quests generally locks you from doing others as you have to do things that offend those other guilds during gameplay. Its a large part of what gives it replayability.

Actualy that hasn't been true since Morrowind.

And yes I'm disapointed about that as well.

I dunno, I skipped Oblivion, and It did not take much of Vanilla Skyrim before I just went heavily modded. Slaughtering the theives guild, adding the fighters etc. Based on complaints I have read on forums, and not seeing any difference from my own gameplay I took it at face value.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1101

3/14/13 3:41:57 PM#87
Originally posted by jimdandy26
 

Even in Tes games though you can't "do it all". Doing guild quests generally locks you from doing others as you have to do things that offend those other guilds during gameplay.

Actually you CAN do everything. You can join every guild. Only thing you can't do both of for example in Skyrim is join both sides of the war. You play the game, find out why they fight, THEN choose a side. But the guilds you can join every one of them.

Its a large part of what gives it replayability. There is also the sheer psychology involved with rerolling in the first place. Those who are primarily pvers generally do not overly care about faction pride and the like because it does not overly effect them.

Funny, I thoight a lot of the discussion about why their design isn't the best was that the reason they have faction locked races and exploration was to make sure "faction Pride" was tehre. faction pride is not a PvE thing yet it has dictated the entire design of the game.

Those are the ones who will reroll the same class even to experience the "new content" from the other sides point of view. While generally if a pvper rerolls its to gain access to new abilities, or because they wish to fight for a different faction thanks to pop/skill/whatever reason they use to justify it this time.

If I eventually do like to over game design and choose to accept the faction lock system they have then i have another dilema in that I really only want to create a Breton and an Orc. Both are in the same faction. So even if I do creat an alt I will ahve to replay the same quests, explore the same area, repeate the same story. Unless of course I want to create a chracter of a race I don't really want to play but that to me is just stupid. And if you can wear any armour and use any weapon and have any skill I see little point in having classes so wanting to roll another class in anotehr faction again is just not really worth my time.

I just want to create one character, choose a faction if I decide to join the war (Yes I want the CHOICE of joining the war!) and be able to play the character I want to play. Of all the character concepts I usually play I cannot achive one of them with this design.

Be a breton mage who travels to Winterhold to visit the accademy? Nope, can't go there.

Be an Orc warrior who wants to kill his long time oppressors and spit in the face of any Orc cowardly enough to join their side? Nope, can't join another faction.

Be a Breton craft who travels the lands selling his wares? Nope, can only travel in my own region so no chance for big profit exporting items to far off lands.

I want to play my way, not the way the designers want me to play. And a game coming out in 2013/14 is about 10 years behind the line on making better gameplay.

Of course a personal opinion but to me it is the most important one.

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

3/14/13 3:43:50 PM#88

You're welcome to make those changes to the game, but I wouldn't play it if you did.

 

Plus, you're proposing a "simple solution" to a problem that far from everybody thinks exists lol.

 

I frankly love the way they have it set up, and can't wait to try it.

 

So how does your solution help with that? It doesn't. It creates a problem where there is none for many people.


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 888

There's some lovely filth down here.

3/14/13 3:45:43 PM#89
Shouldn't there be "solution" threads AFTER the game comes out?  I mean, all this ranting and raving is really just keeping you busy in between games, right?  It's gotta be that.  There's no way so many people know how to fix a game before it's even out.
  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3367

3/14/13 3:48:19 PM#90
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Because rewarding a single person for a group effort does not go over well when the vast majority of your playerbase are selfish twats.

Isn't that the same thing the Emporer system is doing?  This is a group game, a player isn't going to be the top ranked player by playing by himself.

Different rewarding someone with a temp title over giving them a power boots in PvP. If you missed it on the last page it works like this... When a battle over Cyrodiil is won, they take up a tally of the winning side. DPS, Healing and what ever metrics they use to work that out, who ever gets the highest score is Emperoro. I think its kinda cool. I know I wont play enough to have that happen to me but would be cool IMO. 

A solo player has as much chance of winning the title as a team player.

hmmmm that's intriguing though weird.

I would say fair over weird. Why should solo or grouped or guildied members be rewarded better then the other group. Should be skill based IMO.

I wonder if it's also time based or only for hardcore players.  It just seems like this system is rewarding only a small percent of the population.

Plus, why doesn't the faction leaders want to be Emperor - I thought that was the whole reason for the war.

How does that drive or reward the players who took over Cyrodill? I dont know maybe I am wrong but you have to admit it would be cool to win that title and maybe have something dumb like in your main factions city a statue of you there for all to see. Or something that says... I was the MVP of that battle.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 3:56:50 PM#91
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Its a large part of what gives it replayability. There is also the sheer psychology involved with rerolling in the first place. Those who are primarily pvers generally do not overly care about faction pride and the like because it does not overly effect them.

Funny, I thoight a lot of the discussion about why their design isn't the best was that the reason they have faction locked races and exploration was to make sure "faction Pride" was tehre. faction pride is not a PvE thing yet it has dictated the entire design of the game.

So? And again I state generally. Look at Star Wars as an example. You have a nice chunk of people who know dick all about ideologies out arguing Jedi vs Sith entirely because they see it as good vs evil. You can see the same in Wow with horde vs alliance, and even complaints about it in Rift thanks to how they started as 2 opposing factions and have brought them together, if messily. The us vs them mentality is extremely powerful.

Those are the ones who will reroll the same class even to experience the "new content" from the other sides point of view. While generally if a pvper rerolls its to gain access to new abilities, or because they wish to fight for a different faction thanks to pop/skill/whatever reason they use to justify it this time.

If I eventually do like to over game design and choose to accept the faction lock system they have then i have another dilema in that I really only want to create a Breton and an Orc. Both are in the same faction. So even if I do creat an alt I will ahve to replay the same quests, explore the same area, repeate the same story. Unless of course I want to create a chracter of a race I don't really want to play but that to me is just stupid. And if you can wear any armour and use any weapon and have any skill I see little point in having classes so wanting to roll another class in anotehr faction again is just not really worth my time.

Because what you choose to play relies on more than just skills? Each class also has abilities that level with you, those are going to be the main points of contention when it comes to balance.

I just want to create one character, choose a faction if I decide to join the war (Yes I want the CHOICE of joining the war!) and be able to play the character I want to play. Of all the character concepts I usually play I cannot achive one of them with this design.

Be a breton mage who travels to Winterhold to visit the accademy? Nope, can't go there.

Be an Orc warrior who wants to kill his long time oppressors and spit in the face of any Orc cowardly enough to join their side? Nope, can't join another faction.

Be a Breton craft who travels the lands selling his wares? Nope, can only travel in my own region so no chance for big profit exporting items to far off lands.

I want to play my way, not the way the designers want me to play. And a game coming out in 2013/14 is about 10 years behind the line on making better gameplay.

Of course a personal opinion but to me it is the most important one.

*goes out and buys chess. Gets home and sets it up. Starts crying because its not checkers.*

^ Stop doing that. This is not mulitplayer Skyrim. they did not set out to make multiplayer Skyrim, and they are not marketing it as such. If they were, you would have a point, but they aren't.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/14/13 3:57:42 PM#92
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

If you're tired of it then stop reading it or respond like a mature adult.   Most of the conversations here are productive and reasonable until an ESO fanatic jumps in and becomes hostile.  This is a MMO community, you should really grow a thicker skin and stop being hurt by someone having a different opinion.  You will be disappointed later in life if you don't start trying to figure out how to deal with people that 'annoy' you.  I know that I'm a smartass but I'm seriously trying to help.

Yes, your little group attempting to circumvent mechanics and rewrite half the game, and then because YOU guys agreed it is obviously the right thing to do it just simply must be done and to hell with everyone else, especially the developers is SUPER productive. As I said before, this is not Me3, this is not The War Z. Filing petitions because ZOMG THIS CAN NOT STAND is stupid. The ideas that you and your crew are attempting to get implemented would do far more harm than good considering what the developers are trying to achieve. Trying to hide behind piss poor excuses like "lore" do not help your case.

Lore and racial culture is a big part of TES, if you think that is piss poor then this IP is not for you (despite what Zenimax is doing with the game).  Many games have failed because they ignored the core fanbase.

Most everything you stated above is pure speculation and opinion.  You do not know how our suggestions would affect the game.

Mechanics doesn't trump anything, in a well desigend game the mechanics, setting and fluffy fit naturally together.  If they are having to do a lot of retcon to fit the story into something else, then they should consider what direction they are going.

But there is very little actual retcon going on. Every game with any sort of faction based conflict does this, it has to because thats how the human brain is wired. Sure, they could go to the trouble of fleshing out a system like Eq, but it does not actually add anything to what they are trying to accomplish, is expenisve, and only a small percentage are even going to care, and of those the majority are going to play anyway. The number that are actually not going to play because one race is teamed with another is quite small.

By that logic, the number of people who care about faction locked races is quite small - TES has more fans than DAoC.  The majority isn't going to follow the game and post on the forums.  We don't know the numbers yet, calling us small does nothing but show your naivety of that fact.

It's hard to identify someone by their race when they are fully decked out in armor w/helmet (unless you count tails).  TES games normally do not have faction pride, just because it worked in DAoC doesn't mean it's gonna work in ESO.

That depends on how they do armor. If they restrict armor by race for example. They have said that anyone can wear any type of armor and weild any type of weapon, they did not say what styles those would be in. As for realm pride, that is entirely dependant on MECHANICS. Ip has literally nothing to do that. Hell, look at Wow and the sheer number that threw an absolute caniption fit about the Forsaken being allowed to join the Horde before release. Your groups complaints on the matter are pretty much just as absurd.

 Realm pride has a lot to do with the IP (read this).  So if they don't design seperate armor for each race then faction pride would fail?

Kick us out of what?  I can barely figure out what you're trying to write but you don't have the authority to 'kick' us out of anything.  As for a taste of my own medicine... despite all the over-emotional rants that you spew my way, I have been nothing but civil to you.

Well, considering that the thread has been pretty solidly derailed, and your precious agenda is no longer the center of discussion I would consider that kicking you out of the thread. thanks for helping by the way!

LOL, you don't know what derailed means do you?  We're still talking about the game, it's mechanics and if the OP's ideas could be worked in.   I'm still here and we're discussing 'our' precious agenda.

You should really step back and look at some of your responses ~ they are no better than what you accuse us of doing.  Whinning about people whinning is still whinning.

Not at all. Atleast now you are acknowledging just what sorts of prats you have been, and you no longer get to stand on that ever present pillar of the moral highground beating your chest with how this is a desecration of your precious Elder Scrolls!

What did I acknowledge?  I said it was 'no better than what you accuse us of doing" then I made the statement "whinning about people whinning is still whinning".  I did not say we was whinning or that you was right.  I was addressing your comments from your perspective.  Those last two paragraphs you are trying way too hard.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/14/13 4:03:14 PM#93
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

I wonder if it's also time based or only for hardcore players.  It just seems like this system is rewarding only a small percent of the population.

Well duh? Its supposed to. Its also supposed to entice players to want to BE that top player. That is why its called motivation. It does not work on all players, but it works on a great many.

Just seems like a lot of work for only a handful of people, carrot or not.

 

Plus, why doesn't the faction leaders want to be Emperor - I thought that was the whole reason for the war.

Whats the point of a game of chess? To be the only king left standing. To many players though its simply to beat the other player.

War is different than a game of chess.  There is no way that I would believe that someone is going to unite 3 races just to beat another faction. That doesn't make sense.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 4:26:16 PM#94
Originally posted by sapphen

Lore and racial culture is a big part of TES, if you think that is piss poor then this IP is not for you (despite what Zenimax is doing with the game).  Many games have failed because they ignored the core fanbase.

Bs. Those who are anal retentive about the lore are the extreme minority. The modding community alone proves that very well.

Most everything you stated above is pure speculation and opinion.  You do not know how our suggestions would affect the game.

Again, bs. The game is pvp focused, that much is obvious. In that sort of system you MUST have motivation for doing so, ie loot (WoWs method) or some form of faction pride (Daoc). This is something that is missing from Planetside 2, and its widely regarded as its biggest failing (no meta because there is no reason to fight).

By that logic, the number of people who care about faction locked races is quite small - TES has more fans than DAoC.  The majority isn't going to follow the game and post on the forums.  We don't know the numbers yet, calling us small does nothing but show your naivety of that fact.

No, that is simple fact. Those who are anal retentive about lore are generally the very hardcore. Its why WoW has done major retcons twice now and its playerbase barely noticed. Its the same reason why Things like Lord of the Rings are popularized but the Silmarilon is shit upon. Lore is great for the hardcore nerd, unfortunately we are an extreme minorty.

Realm pride has a lot to do with the IP (read this).  So if they don't design seperate armor for each race then faction pride would fail?

Do not confuse Ip with setting. And no, I did not say that. You made a critizism, and I made an example. In fact you could argue that allowing any race to wear any armor is more important simply because more people care more about "looking good or badass" than they do staying true to lore.

 

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 4:30:24 PM#95
Originally posted by sapphen

Just seems like a lot of work for only a handful of people, carrot or not.

Except its not just a handful of people. Its the same instinct that forces us to form cliques and gangs. Its part of us at a genetic level.

 

War is different than a game of chess.  There is no way that I would believe that someone is going to unite 3 races just to beat another faction. That doesn't make sense.

I guess its a great thing we are playing a game then and nott fighting an actual war. Also, you REALLY need to look into some history, many wierder things have happened.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/14/13 5:06:07 PM#96
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

Lore and racial culture is a big part of TES, if you think that is piss poor then this IP is not for you (despite what Zenimax is doing with the game).  Many games have failed because they ignored the core fanbase.

Bs. Those who are anal retentive about the lore are the extreme minority. The modding community alone proves that very well.

Those who are 'anal retentive' about the lore may or may not be a minority but that doesn't change the fact that lore and culture is important in a TES game.  The fact that the modding community alters content doesn't mean that they don't appreciate or respect that it was there in the first place.

 

Most everything you stated above is pure speculation and opinion.  You do not know how our suggestions would affect the game.

Again, bs. The game is pvp focused, that much is obvious. In that sort of system you MUST have motivation for doing so, ie loot (WoWs method) or some form of faction pride (Daoc). This is something that is missing from Planetside 2, and its widely regarded as its biggest failing (no meta because there is no reason to fight).

That is false (and a poor concept of game design).

 

By that logic, the number of people who care about faction locked races is quite small - TES has more fans than DAoC.  The majority isn't going to follow the game and post on the forums.  We don't know the numbers yet, calling us small does nothing but show your naivety of that fact.

No, that is simple fact. Those who are anal retentive about lore are generally the very hardcore. Its why WoW has done major retcons twice now and its playerbase barely noticed. Its the same reason why Things like Lord of the Rings are popularized but the Silmarilon is shit upon. Lore is great for the hardcore nerd, unfortunately we are an extreme minorty.

Being particular about lore does not repersent the entire population opposed to faction locks.  Lore may not be very important to some people but when done incorrectly it can upset the majority.   TES is an established IP and as iconic in the gaming world as LOTR is in the book world.

 

Realm pride has a lot to do with the IP (read this).  So if they don't design seperate armor for each race then faction pride would fail?

Do not confuse Ip with setting. And no, I did not say that. You made a critizism, and I made an example. In fact you could argue that allowing any race to wear any armor is more important simply because more people care more about "looking good or badass" than they do staying true to lore.

The IP includes the setting in many ways.  It's going to be difficult for 'hardcore' TES fans to accept these factions or have pride for them... but they don't care about the hardcore TES fans (who oppose faction locks) ~ instead they care about the hardcore DAoC fans (who claim faction locks are important for faction pride).

You said that appearence is important for faction pride but that is not the case.  Unless each faction/race wears different armor then appearence would not play any part in faction pride and the whole reason for faction locks would be false.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/14/13 5:09:30 PM#97
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by sapphen

Just seems like a lot of work for only a handful of people, carrot or not.

Except its not just a handful of people. Its the same instinct that forces us to form cliques and gangs. Its part of us at a genetic level.

It's still rewarding only one player for the effort of cliques and gangs then.

 

War is different than a game of chess.  There is no way that I would believe that someone is going to unite 3 races just to beat another faction. That doesn't make sense.

I guess its a great thing we are playing a game then and nott fighting an actual war. Also, you REALLY need to look into some history, many wierder things have happened.

If we're not fighting in a war then why don't they just let people walk around in someone else's territory?

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15347

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/14/13 8:26:39 PM#98
Originally posted by sapphen

War is different than a game of chess.  There is no way that I would believe that someone is going to unite 3 races just to beat another faction. That doesn't make sense.

This is quite normal in fantasy lore. Even in reality periods of 100's of years can see the rise and fall of many different factional/racial relationships or wars. There are many both real and fictional examples of mortal enemies uniting in common causes. Look at slave armies as just one example, many people uniting (many not even sharing a common tongue) to fight a common enemy.

There are many things that don't make sense with this set-up, that would not work in any story outside of one contained in a video game. Like the every two week nature of crownings, why it's a random footman being crowned and not faction heads etc.. The alliance thing is a non-factor in comparison.

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17011

3/14/13 8:37:05 PM#99
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jimdandy26

 

Even in Tes games though you can't "do it all". Doing guild quests generally locks you from doing others as you have to do things that offend those other guilds during gameplay. Its a large part of what gives it replayability.

Actualy that hasn't been true since Morrowind.

And yes I'm disapointed about that as well.

I dunno, I skipped Oblivion, and It did not take much of Vanilla Skyrim before I just went heavily modded. Slaughtering the theives guild, adding the fighters etc. Based on complaints I have read on forums, and not seeing any difference from my own gameplay I took it at face value.

Now, I've loved every elder scrolls game I've played but I think Morrowind was the best.

However, this is an interesting listen for people who have played several of the games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0

I don't agree with everything he says but he makes some very valid observations.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/14/13 8:40:06 PM#100

I still don't understand what the huge issue is about altering the game so it is more of a TES and less of a DAoC 2 with Elder Scrolls skin.

 

Why not make it faction lock, instead of race lock? They can keep the factions and their leaders they have set up already, but give the players a choice with whom you affiliate with. Not every Elf has to like the Aldmeri Dominion. Not every Argonian will gladly stand next to the Dunmer. As the PvP is centered around Cyrodiil, a specific zone, it won't change anything but the recruitment process.

 

Have a short questline that introduces you to the 3 factions and then decide with whom you will sign up. There, you get the faction flag/tag for your character and that's that.

 

Now for the openeing of all zones. Honestly, whats the big issue? Unless they have specifically tailored each and every quest to react in a specific way to the members of the three races, the quest givers wont care what race a player has, they will give out the quest for that zone regardless.

 

Also, with their megaserver technology and the way they want to group people of similar interest together in the same zone/instance, why not do the same for those who couldnt care less about the pvp and have them group together for pve in all the zones available, no matter what race or faction they belong to? Adding to that, have the option to not engage in that pvp part at all. I played several characters in Skyrim and cmpletely skipped the 2 faction war going on, because thats what my character would do. Dont wanna engage in pointless wars and bloodshed.

I will admit that I have no clue about the technical side of this issue, but I kind of doubt that it is such a huge problem to slightly alter the way the game deals with certain attributes assigned to the player's character.

 

In the end I think it comes down to the devs (mostly Firor's) vision vs the vision of the Elder Scrolls fan base. And that's the real part that bugs me about this. I loved DAoC, and I had one of the best times in an MMO while playing it. But...it was all in its own setting where it made kind of sense. 3 Faction war does not, imo, belong into the Elder Scrolls Universe and it goes against the freedom and multi cultural approach we have seen so far in every game from that franchise.

So what can be done? Actually there does not need to be done much. Just make faction a choice and let players from every race visit all the zones.

 

 

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