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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » A Very Simple Solution...

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229 posts found
  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1578

3/14/13 2:11:44 PM#41

There is not going to be any solution because the devs don't need a solution. Play the game or don't play the game that's your simple soloutions.

 

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  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

3/14/13 2:12:48 PM#42
Originally posted by Sovrath

The main bone of contention for some (and I will admit that it's not a necessarily a deal breaker for me but I don't like it) is "what's DAoC doing in Elder Scrolls?

I will tell you that my background is lineage 2 and "pride" had more to do with your clan and your alliance. Not some realm. So I don't care about my realm. I do care about the players that I align myself with.

As far as "being at war" and not attcking or being attacked, well, as I said in another thread yesterday that would be a contrivance similiar to any number of mmo contrivances such as "you are the only hero on this quest" but the reality is you are one of thousands or "we just destroyed the World Eater Archeopteryx!" Yet he will respawn in a few hours or will be completely alive when another group adds an instance.

Same with seeing the "enemy". Though truth be told, being at war doesn't exclude a particular racial or ethnic group in your lands. So yeah, the US was at war with German andy Japan but there were people of German and japanese ancestry in the US. And not treated very well I might add which of course goes back to the OP's proposition.

Otherwise, I personally would be happy to be able to attack and be attackable when I go into enemy lands. But that's me.

 

Neither Albion, nor Hibernia nor Midgard nor Merlin, Arthur etc. are coming over. What they are doing is copying design elements from an old and respected MMO in order to make an MMO version of this single-player franchise. Auction houses, mail, megaserver, plate-wearing mages, stealth for everyone... those are coming from other places, including TES itself.

DAoC also had guilds. That was everyone's primary allegiance and source of pride. Guilds were then organized into Alliances which became a secondary source. Above that was the Realm which was the glue that held all the otherwise competitive and sometimes bickering Alliances and independent guilds together. It goes without saying, that even within guilds, there were groups of close friends whom you cared about the most. It was a good simulation of a society with typical relationships and interactions.

Evryone who was not in your realm was "other". .. an alien KOS whom you could not even chat with. That added fuel to the fire and was a powerfull motive to join RvR. You may not like this, you may have deas of how you would prefer to do it, but don't underestimate the fact that this system worked well in that other MMO template. Zenimax is banking on being able to replicate the feel (for lack of a better term) of that 3-sided conflict in the TES world.

As far as contrivances go... lol, isn't all fantasy, including all MMOs,  full of them to make the plots work? Some bother us as individuals more than others. For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

But I can live with what I consider to be imperfections until at least I've had a chance to play their MMO and see for myself whether it all comes together to be fun...or not.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 2:13:00 PM#43
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Adventures:_Redguard

Not all Tes games are free roaming explorathons. Get over it.

Again, another hostile response when it's not needed.  Nobody is hating on your game man, chill out.  We're just talking dandyman.

First, its not my game. In fact the pvp focus I find rather distasteful. However, that does not stop that fact that you, and a handful of your compatriots have hijacked virtually every Eso topic in the last 2 weeks and proceeded to circle jerk each other about how horrible this is and how it needs to be fixed when that is not the case.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17530

3/14/13 2:17:32 PM#44
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2824

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/14/13 2:17:34 PM#45
Originally posted by Caliburn101

There is a lot of hype about how any kind of compromise on explorability and faction lock is impossible at this stage and would require so much change it will never be done.

But the answer to more exploration and no other consequences is not a complicated one.

The war is already completely illogical - faction leaders fighting over who is emperor and then giving it away because of a vote of their minions?

Please...

Invisible walls; 'just add water' instant mountain ranges (that crumble to nothing in later times); Hadrians Wall Mk 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ad nauseam... or however the absolute faction lock will 'work'.

The simple fact is - there are so many logical holes in the faction set-up already, why would intruducing another fairly mild one which consequently made TES-style exploration fans happier, be a problem?

Anyway...

... here it is.

1. Allow anyone to travel anywhere without being PvP flagged except in Cyrodil.

2. Add voiceovers which randomise a culturally flavoured insult or snide comment from guards and vendors whilst interracting with an enemy faction player. Make prices higher for enemy faction members etc.

"Come back here once we have beaten your faction in Cyrodil and I will shoot an arrow in YOUR knee - damn troll-brained Nords!"

3. Gate faction-only quests and dungeons (if and where they exist...)

"We need someone who has a chance of succeeding on this quest Bretonian, not some pint-sized southern weakling - now begone!"

Job done.

Easy.

The explanation? (as if the game really needs a logical one after the one used for the way the war works...)

The threat from Molag is too great to risk all-out, all-regional war. All the leaders agree. Thus outside of Cyrodil, enemies are bound not to fight one another. If orders from faction leaders isn't enough, let's say the Mages Guild did a ritual drawing on the power of Oblivion - a unique ability they have JUST FOR NOW as the anchors make the two realms closer than they have ever been. So magically, people can't fight except in Cyrodil, there Molag's proximity obstructs the ritual. Hell, maybe Molag set it up that way, maybe the Psijic Order did it with a Dwemer artefact - WHO CARES!

This is a relative doddle to program, makes about as much sense as any other part of the 'metaplot' already rolled out, and allows nearly full exploration without detracting from factional PvP one bit!

I for one will be at least as motivated to have 'factional pride' if the guards and vendors insults are good - probably more motivated than I would be just because the big bad enemy built some walls I wasn't allowed to go around...

NO!

 

Can not have a proper 3 way RvR styled DAoC PvP system unless the realms are locked to do so the whole system falls apart. Just look at GW2 and TSW for proper proof on why you don't allow the factions to mingle i nthe PvE portion of the game and look at DAoC and see why it worked.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/14/13 2:19:20 PM#46
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen

I would've loved for ESO to create their own legend.  TES had a lot of great material that would've translated into a MMO but instead it feels like an RvR niche game itself.  I don't see them trying to appeal to TES fans or MMO players.

Far from a niche game, CU is niche in every way. You get RvR and thats it. ESO is trying for the full package. TES story and lore, DAoC RvR style PvP, SWToR VO story, Action combat based combat, Class system with freedom you dont see often in a MMO, Open world and instanced dungeons and more!!! To big to be called niche.

It feels like a niche when they design everything around the RvR but again, that is only the way I personally feel.   We know little about these features and how they will be implimented so I can not comment on how effective they will be.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 2:20:42 PM#47
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/14/13 2:20:42 PM#48
Originally posted by jimdandy26

First, its not my game. In fact the pvp focus I find rather distasteful. However, that does not stop that fact that you, and a handful of your compatriots have hijacked virtually every Eso topic in the last 2 weeks and proceeded to circle jerk each other about how horrible this is and how it needs to be fixed when that is not the case.

Bad taste, you should grow up.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

3/14/13 2:23:08 PM#49
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

 How is it counter? I don't understand what you mean.

  buegur

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 460

3/14/13 2:23:38 PM#50
I hope they make a shard that does indeed do something along these lines that you requested, I for one will not play that shard.  Last thing I want is my enemy roaming around my areas unmolested.  Not very immersible for me at all.  Hard to get realm pride when your overrun with peeps from the other side in my opinion.  That said I understand there are others who want nothing to do with racial warfare , so making shards that make you guys happy is something I can fully support!
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 2:26:38 PM#51
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26

First, its not my game. In fact the pvp focus I find rather distasteful. However, that does not stop that fact that you, and a handful of your compatriots have hijacked virtually every Eso topic in the last 2 weeks and proceeded to circle jerk each other about how horrible this is and how it needs to be fixed when that is not the case.

Bad taste, you should grow up.

Says the guy that has thrown a temper tantrum for two weeks while being fed by a handful of others about "ruining the Tes ip" but just admitted that you have no idea how many of these mechanics are really going to work because you have not played with them at all? Really? You are the worst kind of fanboy. There is nothing in the "lore" that prevents anything they are doing, and even if there were they have every right to retcon it. Virtually any ip works in pretty much any genre, Star Wars shows that if nothing else. Can you please stop hijacking topics now sewing your doom and gloom garbage?

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3577

3/14/13 2:26:47 PM#52
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

 How is it counter? I don't understand what you mean.

He just saying the emperoro is fluff not a mechanic. Fluff can always be changed. 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

3/14/13 2:29:10 PM#53
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

 How is it counter? I don't understand what you mean.

He just saying the emperoro is fluff not a mechanic. Fluff can always be changed. 

Fair enough but I don't like the 2-week resetting mechanic either. That's GW2ish and it creates more of a battleground feel for RvR.

Edit... I should probably also mention I always play in RP servers...that might explain where I'm coming from a bit better.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 2:33:17 PM#54
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

 How is it counter? I don't understand what you mean.

Compition is based on having something to actually fight for, its part of what actually drives the realm pride etc. If the top spot is not changing out on a fairly consistant basis then that fight quickly loses its appeal. 1-2 weeks is right in the sweet spot. It gives the weekend warriors a couple of opportunities to feel like they made a difference, yet its not so long that once won people feel like they can just log off until its time to fight to the finish. Personal motivators are also extremely powerful amongst those on the "top end" of play, granting them recognition is a huge reward that does not increase power, and it actively removes so much of the "lore breaking" you are so worried about. Npcs are almost always seen as being apart from players (they follow different rules, like staying dead when they die) so they can be left as figureheads for the pve crowd also.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

3/14/13 2:37:53 PM#55
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

 How is it counter? I don't understand what you mean.

Compition is based on having something to actually fight for, its part of what actually drives the realm pride etc. If the top spot is not changing out on a fairly consistant basis then that fight quickly loses its appeal. 1-2 weeks is right in the sweet spot. It gives the weekend warriors a couple of opportunities to feel like they made a difference, yet its not so long that once won people feel like they can just log off until its time to fight to the finish. Personal motivators are also extremely powerful amongst those on the "top end" of play, granting them recognition is a huge reward that does not increase power, and it actively removes so much of the "lore breaking" you are so worried about. Npcs are almost always seen as being apart from players (they follow different rules, like staying dead when they die) so they can be left as figureheads for the pve crowd also.

Well I guess I'm more of a DAoC early-days diehard. RvR didn't reset there although the natural ebb and flow made it so that relics were only rarely held for a month or more. It just made it feel more real and this 2-week reset thing for me has more the feel of an e-sport....shrug. Not a dealbreaker anyway.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 987

3/14/13 2:43:48 PM#56
Originally posted by Iselin

Well I guess I'm more of a DAoC early-days diehard. RvR didn't reset there although the natural ebb and flow made it so that relics were only rarely held for a month or more. It just made it feel more real and this 2-week reset thing for me has more the feel of an e-sport....shrug. Not a dealbreaker anyway.

I agree. There should be a persistent, static warzone that only changes when players themselves initiate the change, not some server time limit. If there's concern over one faction dominating... isn't that what three faction pvp is there to guard against? One faction rises up and the other two become allies of necessity to bring it back down.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/14/13 2:48:30 PM#57
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Says the guy that has thrown a temper tantrum for two weeks while being fed by a handful of others about "ruining the Tes ip" but just admitted that you have no idea how many of these mechanics are really going to work because you have not played with them at all? Really?

What temper tanturm are you talking about?   I admitted that I didn't know anything about PvE but we're not even talking about that.  Are you being hostile because I called you dandyman?

You are the worst kind of fanboy. There is nothing in the "lore" that prevents anything they are doing, and even if there were they have every right to retcon it. Virtually any ip works in pretty much any genre, Star Wars shows that if nothing else. Can you please stop hijacking topics now sewing your doom and gloom garbage?

There is plenty in the lore that works against what they are doing.  There are 3 sets of races (who don't entirely get along with themselves) who suddenly align behind a Breton Merchant Lord, Nord High King and a young Altmer Queen.

...funny, it seems like you're the one trying to hijack topics.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3577

3/14/13 2:54:07 PM#58
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

 How is it counter? I don't understand what you mean.

He just saying the emperoro is fluff not a mechanic. Fluff can always be changed. 

Fair enough but I don't like the 2-week resetting mechanic either. That's GW2ish and it creates more of a battleground feel for RvR.

Edit... I should probably also mention I always play in RP servers...that might explain where I'm coming from a bit better.

It does not reset every 2 weeks, thats missinformation =-) On the internet who knew that could happen lol. When a battle over Cyrodiil is won, they take up a tally of the winning side. DPS, Healing and what ever metrics they use to work that out, who ever gets the highest score is Emperoro. I think its kinda cool. I know I wont play enough to have that happen to me but would be cool IMO.  

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/14/13 2:57:31 PM#59
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Iselin

Well I guess I'm more of a DAoC early-days diehard. RvR didn't reset there although the natural ebb and flow made it so that relics were only rarely held for a month or more. It just made it feel more real and this 2-week reset thing for me has more the feel of an e-sport....shrug. Not a dealbreaker anyway.

I agree. There should be a persistent, static warzone that only changes when players themselves initiate the change, not some server time limit. If there's concern over one faction dominating... isn't that what three faction pvp is there to guard against? One faction rises up and the other two become allies of necessity to bring it back down.

Except no current gen 3 faction game exhibits those rules. The majority of the time the path of least resistence kicks in and whoever is "2nd" quickly turns on "3rd" for the quick kills before going back and quarling with "1st". They need to be super careful when it comes to power distribution, and actually rewarding the kinds of gameplay that they want to exhibit. If they truly want the 2 "lessers" to form an allaince against the greater, then that really needs to be rewarded, and heavily, but not enough to be overpowered, otherwise such alliances will be formed entirely to take advantage of it.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17530

3/14/13 3:02:22 PM#60
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 

For me, personally, I don't like the concept of resetting the RvR and having a new emperor every 2 weeks. I would prefer more permanence, the faction leader NPC--not some player--being the emperoro and staying that way until forcibly dethroned.

 

SOLD!!!!

 

Except that is completely counter to the very compition that the game is designed around to move forward. Mechanics come before fluff.

It still works.

Players can compete for whoever wins the seat, the Faction Leader NPC is then seated and this means benefits to the winning faction.

It's somewhat similiar to the Lineage 2 Dawn/Dusk competion in that the winning side gets benefits that then carry over to their side.

 

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