Trending Games | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Destiny | Star Trek Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,856,653 Users Online:0
Games:740  Posts:6,241,302
Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
Distribution: | Retail Price:$59.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
System Req: PC Mac Playstation 4 Xbox One | Out of date info? Let us know!

24 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Last Search
475 posts found
  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/28/13 6:39:10 AM#81
ignore this i got a double post for some reason

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/28/13 6:42:54 AM#82
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

sorry refuse to vote in this poll as all the choices are in reality pointing at the same conclusion, what about those of us that dont think its a cheap re skin of DAoC, what about those of us that disagree with you where is the poll opyion for that,

a poll that only give options that point at same answer is not a poll but a cheap excuse for the person who made it to justify what they think

No they are not pointing to the same conclusion, that is absurd.  You guys are just getting mad because most of the people taking the poll thinks ESO was ruined by DAoC or used by developers to make a quick cash grab. If you disagree with OP then select "TES with DAoC flawlessly integrated".  ESO has DAoC elements in it, not only are they not hiding that fact from players but they are flaunting Matt Firor around like some kind of golden boy.

If you truly believe that this poll gives the same options then PLEASE by all means support your claim.  Why do you think the answers say the same thing?  Maybe english isn't your native language and we can explain it to you if you don't understand.

because i dont think its a DAoC reskin and the poll gives no options with that in mind, they all point at the same thing its a reskin of DAoC, even the options given assumeing that everyone agree with that dont even really differ, its asking how well DAoC was implmented into the game . . . . .thats not even possable to answer unless you have played it.

also prove to me its a DAoC reskin without going on about the three faction locked zones. because yes thats from DAoC but i guess that means all open world go and kill this style MMOs are just reskins of EQ1 then?

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 6:45:38 AM#83
Originally posted by aylwynn
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by aylwynn

... Wow, people are already judging about a game while its not even released.

Really, have you even read anything about the game yet?

Really, have you even played Dark Age of Camelot? DAoC had a combat based on attackspeed, casts where interruptable while casting, longduration CC/debuffs/buffs, static meshes and no casting while running. Even not having mirrorclasses was a huge individual aspect of DAoC.

DAoC is not just about faction locking - in fact there were PvP servers, where you were able to invade the hostile faction zones -, sieging, relics and all this stuff. You need to look indepth if you want to say that TESO is a ripoff of DAoC.

Listen, there won't be static meshes, I guess you will be able to cast spells while running like in The Elder Scrolls, you are able to dodge, we don't know if there will be longduration CC/debuffs/buffs but bufffood, nor we know if casts are interruptable and - man - there aren't even race/faction-specific classes. You will be able to execute an attack while clicking on your mouse, like in The Elder Scrolls.

In fact modern MMORPGs have a great distance to DAoC. And I doubt if there will change anything.

You can say that it has a lack of freedom, I don't really care since its a MMORPG. But factionlocking is not a base aspect of DAoC.

What are you talking about?  You claimed that we haven't played the game yet so we can't judge it - I asked if you read anything about the game and you go on a DAoC rant.

I have enough information to know that this is NOT a TES game but a DAoC knock-off.  They said they wanted to appeal to TES fans but they are going for the generic MMO model w/DAoC RvR and a few pseudo-innovative systems (most of which was done in other games).

Faction locking goes directly against TES yet it was added to mimic DAoC.  Apparently Matt Firor believed that faction locks was a base aspect of DAoC, therefore it took priority over the heart and soul of TES.  Being a MMORPG doesn't mean they had to remove the freedom of faction choice or exploration (or various other TES elements they took out).
  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 6:51:46 AM#84
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

sorry refuse to vote in this poll as all the choices are in reality pointing at the same conclusion, what about those of us that dont think its a cheap re skin of DAoC, what about those of us that disagree with you where is the poll opyion for that,

a poll that only give options that point at same answer is not a poll but a cheap excuse for the person who made it to justify what they think

No they are not pointing to the same conclusion, that is absurd.  You guys are just getting mad because most of the people taking the poll thinks ESO was ruined by DAoC or used by developers to make a quick cash grab. If you disagree with OP then select "TES with DAoC flawlessly integrated".  ESO has DAoC elements in it, not only are they not hiding that fact from players but they are flaunting Matt Firor around like some kind of golden boy.

If you truly believe that this poll gives the same options then PLEASE by all means support your claim.  Why do you think the answers say the same thing?  Maybe english isn't your native language and we can explain it to you if you don't understand.

because i dont think its a DAoC reskin and the poll gives no options with that in mind, they all point at the same thing its a reskin of DAoC, even the options given assumeing that everyone agree with that dont even really differ, its asking how well DAoC was implmented into the game . . . . .thats not even possable to answer unless you have played it.

also prove to me its a DAoC reskin without going on about the three faction locked zones. because yes thats from DAoC but i guess that means all open world go and kill this style MMOs are just reskins of EQ1 then?

Okay lets break this sentence down;  TES with DAoC flawlessly integrated.  It says NOTHING about ESO being a DAoC reskin.  DAoC was integrated with ESO, THAT IS A FACT.   Maybe you're in denial but even the developers admit to this, it is one of their main selling points.

It is completely possible to make an assessment on the information we have so far.  Like Caliburn said, this poll is asking us, from the information we have so far, what is our current perception of the game.

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/28/13 6:53:30 AM#85

What are you talking about?  You claimed that we haven't played the game yet so we can't judge it - I asked if you read anything about the game and you go on a DAoC rant.

I have enough information to know that this is NOT a TES game but a DAoC knock-off.  They said they wanted to appeal to TES fans but they are going for the generic MMO model w/DAoC RvR and a few pseudo-innovative systems (most of which was done in other games).

Faction locking goes directly against TES yet it was added to mimic DAoC.  Apparently Matt Firor believed that faction locks was a base aspect of DAoC, therefore it took priority over the heart and soul of TES.  Being a MMORPG doesn't mean they had to remove the freedom of faction choice or exploration (or various other TES elements they took out).

just wondering about this line cause people really keep harping it, name a single player open world game that is about faction locked areas, cause you know there is a reason there are no faction mlocked zones in single player games  . . . .there are no opposing player factions to lock out of it.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/28/13 6:55:07 AM#86
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

sorry refuse to vote in this poll as all the choices are in reality pointing at the same conclusion, what about those of us that dont think its a cheap re skin of DAoC, what about those of us that disagree with you where is the poll opyion for that,

a poll that only give options that point at same answer is not a poll but a cheap excuse for the person who made it to justify what they think

No they are not pointing to the same conclusion, that is absurd.  You guys are just getting mad because most of the people taking the poll thinks ESO was ruined by DAoC or used by developers to make a quick cash grab. If you disagree with OP then select "TES with DAoC flawlessly integrated".  ESO has DAoC elements in it, not only are they not hiding that fact from players but they are flaunting Matt Firor around like some kind of golden boy.

If you truly believe that this poll gives the same options then PLEASE by all means support your claim.  Why do you think the answers say the same thing?  Maybe english isn't your native language and we can explain it to you if you don't understand.

because i dont think its a DAoC reskin and the poll gives no options with that in mind, they all point at the same thing its a reskin of DAoC, even the options given assumeing that everyone agree with that dont even really differ, its asking how well DAoC was implmented into the game . . . . .thats not even possable to answer unless you have played it.

also prove to me its a DAoC reskin without going on about the three faction locked zones. because yes thats from DAoC but i guess that means all open world go and kill this style MMOs are just reskins of EQ1 then?

Okay lets break this sentence down;  TES with DAoC flawlessly integrated.  It says NOTHING about ESO being a DAoC reskin.  DAoC was integrated with ESO, THAT IS A FACT.   Maybe you're in denial but even the developers admit to this, it is one of their main selling points.

It is completely possible to make an assessment on the information we have so far.  Like Caliburn said, this poll is asking us, from the information we have so far, what is our current perception of the game.

give me a develpoer quote please

 

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 6:57:56 AM#87
Originally posted by Squeak69

What are you talking about?  You claimed that we haven't played the game yet so we can't judge it - I asked if you read anything about the game and you go on a DAoC rant.

I have enough information to know that this is NOT a TES game but a DAoC knock-off.  They said they wanted to appeal to TES fans but they are going for the generic MMO model w/DAoC RvR and a few pseudo-innovative systems (most of which was done in other games).

Faction locking goes directly against TES yet it was added to mimic DAoC.  Apparently Matt Firor believed that faction locks was a base aspect of DAoC, therefore it took priority over the heart and soul of TES.  Being a MMORPG doesn't mean they had to remove the freedom of faction choice or exploration (or various other TES elements they took out).

just wondering about this line cause people really keep harping it, name a single player open world game that is about faction locked areas, cause you know there is a reason there are no faction mlocked zones in single player games  . . . .there are no opposing player factions to lock out of it.

Okay, name a few MMOs that is about faction locked areas and lets look at their success.
  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 6:58:41 AM#88
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by sapphen

Okay lets break this sentence down;  TES with DAoC flawlessly integrated.  It says NOTHING about ESO being a DAoC reskin.  DAoC was integrated with ESO, THAT IS A FACT.   Maybe you're in denial but even the developers admit to this, it is one of their main selling points.

It is completely possible to make an assessment on the information we have so far.  Like Caliburn said, this poll is asking us, from the information we have so far, what is our current perception of the game.

give me a develpoer quote please

"Hello, my name is Matt Firor"  - Matt Firor

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/28/13 6:59:54 AM#89
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

What are you talking about?  You claimed that we haven't played the game yet so we can't judge it - I asked if you read anything about the game and you go on a DAoC rant.

I have enough information to know that this is NOT a TES game but a DAoC knock-off.  They said they wanted to appeal to TES fans but they are going for the generic MMO model w/DAoC RvR and a few pseudo-innovative systems (most of which was done in other games).

Faction locking goes directly against TES yet it was added to mimic DAoC.  Apparently Matt Firor believed that faction locks was a base aspect of DAoC, therefore it took priority over the heart and soul of TES.  Being a MMORPG doesn't mean they had to remove the freedom of faction choice or exploration (or various other TES elements they took out).

just wondering about this line cause people really keep harping it, name a single player open world game that is about faction locked areas, cause you know there is a reason there are no faction mlocked zones in single player games  . . . .there are no opposing player factions to lock out of it.

Okay, name a few MMOs that is about faction locked areas and lets look at their success.

oh good one turn my question on itself without answering it, you answer first. cause im to lazy to go do research for something that we are not going to agree on.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1820

"I shall take your position into consideration"

2/28/13 7:01:41 AM#90

To me, it seems that the original intention was not to make an online version of ES.

I think they designed a RvR centric themepark game.

Then they put ES name on it in order to increase potential revenues.

Then they modified the game, so that there were some mechanisms from ES series.

Then release it as TESO.

However, the original idea was not to make ES online, in my opinion.

 

The whole idea of RvR centric ES game is strange to me.

 

 

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 7:02:53 AM#91
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

just wondering about this line cause people really keep harping it, name a single player open world game that is about faction locked areas, cause you know there is a reason there are no faction mlocked zones in single player games  . . . .there are no opposing player factions to lock out of it.

Okay, name a few MMOs that is about faction locked areas and lets look at their success.

oh good one turn my question on itself without answering it, you answer first. cause im to lazy to go do research for something that we are not going to agree on.

First off there isn't many open world single player games (edit in:  well there are a lot of them but not compared to gaming pool as a whole...).  None of the ones I know have faction locked areas because it isn't a good idea to restrict players from content created.

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

2/28/13 7:05:10 AM#92
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

just wondering about this line cause people really keep harping it, name a single player open world game that is about faction locked areas, cause you know there is a reason there are no faction mlocked zones in single player games  . . . .there are no opposing player factions to lock out of it.

Okay, name a few MMOs that is about faction locked areas and lets look at their success.

oh good one turn my question on itself without answering it, you answer first. cause im to lazy to go do research for something that we are not going to agree on.

First off there isn't many open world single player games.  None of the ones I know have faction locked areas because it isn't a good idea to restrict players from content created.

ok my point is being missed entirely so ill be blunt then.

it makes no sence to compare a single player game to a MMO, and complain that they dont have the same features

and i am done here because this argument is going no where you think what youi want and i will think what i want.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 7:12:03 AM#93
Originally posted by Squeak69

ok my point is being missed entirely so ill be blunt then.

it makes no sence to compare a single player game to a MMO, and complain that they dont have the same features

and i am done here because this argument is going no where you think what youi want and i will think what i want.

YES, it makes perfect sense to compare a SP game to a MMO.  They are not that different, have you been playing most MMOs lately?  The storyline and most questing is single player, it just has other people running around.  The main difference between SP and MMO is dungeons, raids, economics and PvP (even some SP games have dungeons and PvP).

Most of the systems from TES would've translated to a MMORPG.  Many modern MMOs have been inspired from the TES series.  MMORPG and SPRPG are a lot more similar than you think.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3800

2/28/13 8:31:03 AM#94
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by timtrack

In the past: "This game does not appeal to me, i shall ignore it and move on to follow games that do appeal to me."

 

Now: "This game does not appeal to me, it should be changed to my liking or i will make posts on every forum on the internet about how this game is worse than Hitler."

 Roflmao...good one :)

It's easy to be dismissive, and sarcastic whilst doing so.

Eeven easier to do so while offering nothing positive to the debate.

Anyone with half a brain can do it.

It requires rather less than that to invoke the name of that particular guy... and it's pretty tasteless too don't you think?

Ridicule is the most appropriate response to an obviously biased poll being defended by people who take themselves and their opinions entirely too seriously. You guys posting the same garbage day after day in this forum is nothing but pollution for the rest of us who come here wanting to get real news about what is happening with the game.

You are part of pointless campaign to make TESO into something closely resembling a game that already exists and not many play, Darkfall.

Your choices in your poll are dismissive of those who don't think like you (no surprise there) by qualifying the only response that is contrary to your personal bias with the adjective "flawless." You're in fact implying that supporting the actual real implementation Zenimax has chosen is an act of blind devotion because, as you well know, nothing is flawless.

Your other 3 options imply incompetence, that the game is in ruins and that the developers have no artistic integrity and just want to cash-in. To put it another way, your choices are:

1. I disagree with you but I'm a blind fanboi

2. I agree with you because Zenimax is incompetent

3. I agree with you but this MMO is DOA

4. I agree with you because Zenimax only cares about the money

Perhaps in your biased mind the whole subject is encompassed by those 4 statements. And to borrow your own quote, "anyone with half a brain" can see that your 4 choices are deliberately limiting and biased.

This is why the best possible response to your poll is to laugh at it for the pathetic attempt at disguising your biased subjectivity that it is.

Is that offering enough for you?

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1289

2/28/13 9:03:42 AM#95
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

ok my point is being missed entirely so ill be blunt then.

it makes no sence to compare a single player game to a MMO, and complain that they dont have the same features

and i am done here because this argument is going no where you think what youi want and i will think what i want.

YES, it makes perfect sense to compare a SP game to a MMO.  They are not that different, have you been playing most MMOs lately?  The storyline and most questing is single player, it just has other people running around.  The main difference between SP and MMO is dungeons, raids, economics and PvP (even some SP games have dungeons and PvP).

Most of the systems from TES would've translated to a MMORPG.  Many modern MMOs have been inspired from the TES series.  MMORPG and SPRPG are a lot more similar than you think.

I don't know if your doing this intentionally but you make it sound like you would like ESO to be like SWTOR.

 

There's a big difference actually between MMO's and single player games. A SP game is designed around a single player, not multiple players.

TES may work as a co-op game like Minecraft for example. However, a TES online would have to be heavily instanced to cater for the different ways people actually play the game. I don't want someone else's ES experience dictate my ES experience.

 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3460

2/28/13 9:06:02 AM#96

Its sad to see this side of the mmorpg.com community. Bashing games and devs when all we have is the core mechanics. We know nothing about how they plan to play out this 3 faction war or how in plays into the story and game they have designed. Here we are snap judgment as we do here and yell fail and wrong before we know a lick of info on the details. That in the face of the fact every time a new MMO comes out with a 2 sided PvP game we all yell, DONT YOU KNOW FOR GOOD PvP YOU NEED 3 FACTIONS!!!!! We get that and we judge again.

Give the devs time to prove this is the game we want. Have some faith the game has been designed from the ground up with this 3 faction war in mind. That their plan is not to have PvE be some afterthought. They have been working 6 years on this project and they are not sticking TES IP on a DAoC skin, I have read how they are handling the lore and thats not the feel I get from that at all. The lore fits well with the races at war as they do hate eachother and oppress eachother when they are not killing eachother. Seems most of the threads here like to predict doom and gloom and yell fail, why are we like that as gamers and as a MMO community? Shame on us!

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 9:18:27 AM#97
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

ok my point is being missed entirely so ill be blunt then.

it makes no sence to compare a single player game to a MMO, and complain that they dont have the same features

and i am done here because this argument is going no where you think what youi want and i will think what i want.

YES, it makes perfect sense to compare a SP game to a MMO.  They are not that different, have you been playing most MMOs lately?  The storyline and most questing is single player, it just has other people running around.  The main difference between SP and MMO is dungeons, raids, economics and PvP (even some SP games have dungeons and PvP).

Most of the systems from TES would've translated to a MMORPG.  Many modern MMOs have been inspired from the TES series.  MMORPG and SPRPG are a lot more similar than you think.

I don't know if your doing this intentionally but you make it sound like you would like ESO to be like SWTOR.

There's a big difference actually between MMO's and single player games. A SP game is designed around a single player, not multiple players.

TES may work as a co-op game like Minecraft for example. However, a TES online would have to be heavily instanced to cater for the different ways people actually play the game. I don't want someone else's ES experience dictate my ES experience.

I said it makes sense to 'compare' a SP to a MMO.  You can't say that ESO had to have faction locks because it is a MMO.  There are many things from TES that would've translated to a MMO.  That is all.

I did not say this should be a co-op game or like SWTOR.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 9:23:42 AM#98
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Its sad to see this side of the mmorpg.com community. Bashing games and devs when all we have is the core mechanics. We know nothing about how they plan to play out this 3 faction war or how in plays into the story and game they have designed. Here we are snap judgment as we do here and yell fail and wrong before we know a lick of info on the details. That in the face of the fact every time a new MMO comes out with a 2 sided PvP game we all yell, DONT YOU KNOW FOR GOOD PvP YOU NEED 3 FACTIONS!!!!! We get that and we judge again.

Give the devs time to prove this is the game we want. Have some faith the game has been designed from the ground up with this 3 faction war in mind. That their plan is not to have PvE be some afterthought. They have been working 6 years on this project and they are not sticking TES IP on a DAoC skin, I have read how they are handling the lore and thats not the feel I get from that at all. The lore fits well with the races at war as they do hate eachother and oppress eachother when they are not killing eachother. Seems most of the threads here like to predict doom and gloom and yell fail, why are we like that as gamers and as a MMO community? Shame on us!

So it's okay for fans to get hyped up about a title and talk about how much they are going to love it but it's not okay for people to say they don't like the direction they are going?

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1289

2/28/13 9:27:10 AM#99
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Squeak69

ok my point is being missed entirely so ill be blunt then.

it makes no sence to compare a single player game to a MMO, and complain that they dont have the same features

and i am done here because this argument is going no where you think what youi want and i will think what i want.

YES, it makes perfect sense to compare a SP game to a MMO.  They are not that different, have you been playing most MMOs lately?  The storyline and most questing is single player, it just has other people running around.  The main difference between SP and MMO is dungeons, raids, economics and PvP (even some SP games have dungeons and PvP).

Most of the systems from TES would've translated to a MMORPG.  Many modern MMOs have been inspired from the TES series.  MMORPG and SPRPG are a lot more similar than you think.

I don't know if your doing this intentionally but you make it sound like you would like ESO to be like SWTOR.

There's a big difference actually between MMO's and single player games. A SP game is designed around a single player, not multiple players.

TES may work as a co-op game like Minecraft for example. However, a TES online would have to be heavily instanced to cater for the different ways people actually play the game. I don't want someone else's ES experience dictate my ES experience.

I said it makes sense to 'compare' a SP to a MMO.  You can't say that ESO had to have faction locks because it is a MMO.  There are many things from TES that would've translated to a MMO.  That is all.

I did not say this should be a co-op game or like SWTOR.

Well no, however it does work well in an MMO. IMO though its irrelevant whether its a right or wrong decision. It's how well its implemented.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

2/28/13 9:31:48 AM#100
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by sapphen

I said it makes sense to 'compare' a SP to a MMO.  You can't say that ESO had to have faction locks because it is a MMO.  There are many things from TES that would've translated to a MMO.  That is all.

I did not say this should be a co-op game or like SWTOR.

Well no, however it does work well in an MMO. IMO though its irrelevant wether its a right or wrong decision. It's how well its implemented.

Sure it works great in a MMO.  I enjoyed DAoC, GW2, TSW and look forward to CU but I do not think it would work in a TES game.   To me, it doesn't matter how well it's implemented, they took away what defined Elder Scrolls for me personally.

I respect that we don't see eye to eye.  I'm not trying to convince you change your opinion, I'm only stating mine.  Thank you keeping this conversation civil.

24 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Last Search