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Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Setting:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:$59.99 | Pay Type:Buy to Play | Monthly Fee:Free
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475 posts found
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5281

3/27/13 1:15:46 PM#421
The DAoC haters need to get over it (((eye roll))) Its the model they picked and it fits just fine. The compromise to go anywhere was done in a way to not compromise the AvA wars so it keeps the DAoC model intact. Items are very much like DAoC where gear did not rule the game. Crafting matters is also very much DAoC. This really is the devs goals in making this game. Its what they know. At the same time people at PAX said it felt very much like TES. You dont like the model, Ooo well its what we got.

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/27/13 2:20:30 PM#422
Originally posted by rygard49

You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?

I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game.  More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit.  This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.

If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself.  What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated?  How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5281

3/27/13 4:12:08 PM#423
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by rygard49

You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?

I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game.  More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit.  This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.

If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself.  What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated?  How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?

As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

3/27/13 4:18:47 PM#424
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by rygard49

You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?

I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game.  More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit.  This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.

If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself.  What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated?  How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?

As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.

I wouldn't mind a system that made it rare but possible.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 103

3/27/13 9:20:24 PM#425
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by rygard49

You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?

I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game.  More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit.  This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.

If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself.  What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated?  How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?

As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.

That's the funny thing though. For you it is immersion breaking if you see someone of a certainr ace kill other members of that race. For me it is immersion breaking if I can't see that or do it myself. Because, last time I checked, Elder Scrolls was about choice and freedom to do exactly those things you just mentioned.

if I am a dark elf, who says I have to like my own kin and never draw a weapon against them? That's like saying in Skyrim, when you pick a Nord, you should never ever kill any other Nord. Again, this might work in any other setting that has a good explanation for this, but it really is not Elder Scrolls.

Now it seems that NPCs won't care for your choice of race anyway and just give out quests to whoever walks by. Great, I say, then there should not be any issue with having the PvE world open fromt he start and featuring 3 starting zones to choose from. Let the 3 Alliances/Factions be a political thing that players can choose who they would like to follow. Won't change anything about their AvA concept.

With the way they set up their mega server and balance campaigns it does not matter if one race is hugely more popular than another one. The same would be true if you could freely choose one of the 3 alliances. Nothing would change about their PvP mechanics. The only thing that changes is that the game would feel a lot more like ES if they get rid of the silly race lock and have the PvE world open to everyone.

  alakyen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 33

3/28/13 1:36:33 AM#426
Originally posted by Anakami

You were free to travel wherever you wanted, side with whoever you wanted and be whoever you wanted to be. I know they have starter islands and small zones with a somewhat guided experience through the levels, but again, this is due to MMO mechanics and I am realist enough to see why it can't be a 1:1 translation from SP to MMO.

What I fail to see though is why they have to force you to make the choice of race a choice of faction at the same time. Just because I play an Argonian I have to be allied with the Dunmer and Nords, and also like it? Even if I don't like it, I still have no choice when it comes to my options of what I can do in the world of Tamriel. I could comletely ignore the war/pvp part and play as a traveling merchant/mercenary, but that would not change the fact that six other races would be my enemy. So I will be stuck with 2 races I dont care about or maybe even outright loathe, while the rest of the world hates me anyway by default? How is that Elder Scrolls?

Again, it would have been so easy to remake this in the spirit of the IP which was -among other things- always about choice. Make the factions not a racial thing but rather a political one, a conflict of interests or visions. While in Coldharbour you could then decide in which of the 3 currently available starting zones you would like your adventure to start.

What we have right now is like picking Nord at the start of Skyrim and then during the escape sequence having Ralof butcher Hadvar, smiling at you and saying: "Welcome to the Stormcloaks!"

Or picking Imperial, having the same scene reversed and Ralof saying: "Welcome my Imperial brother, I am sure you didnt mind all the torturing and the fact the Imperials wanted to kill you despite you being innocent. You just love us Imps, don't you, because, well, you are an Imperial!! Welcome to the choir."

Ahem...yeah. Maybe it is just me, but locking the races to a faction goes against what I have come to love about TES. I know it is just one point, one issue, but for me it is so very essential to the ES setting that I cannot call it ES.

Really i wonder if any of you have ever played an elder scrolls because you simply seem not, you take the things the way you want, in any elder scrolls you are allways putted in a faction you cant change where you can simply deny of that part of the game but you can never interact in other way with the opposite faction.

In skyrim you cant join the thalmor, you cant join alduin, in oblivion you cant join daedra... but ooh in this game you can join the opposite faction by changing your character, what this game has is a little of coherency you cant join the stormcloak and the empire at the same time, you cant even change your choice, and of course you cant join alduin or thalmor. So the point here is the race/faction restrictions, there the devs have 2 options they can just allow 9 races or even 10 in the same faction and have 10 vs 10 vs 10 races in pvp, there you'll have an aldmeri dominion army composed by 2 nords, 2 orcs, 2 dunmer, 2 bosmer, 1 aldmer, 1 khajit (thats is elder scrolls?) How many thalmor you see werent aldmer in skyrim? of course a lot cause the aldmer are miles away from being racists XD. Even in skyrim being nord they treat you as a foreign (a asshole bug i guess, even bethesda great devs). And you pretend to transport that to an strict racial war where being attack by other races and dont have racism? XDDD man your points are very funny. Just study history.

So i guess the point everyone can join everyone is clearly a stupid issue not even present in other tes simply a mitification you transport here to criticize a reality, everyone cant join visit everyplace. But thats not true in fact you can, they have already said that, just in your faction pov, so the point can be you cant relate with other races beside with a sword between you, there i challenge you to give devs a solution to without mixing the armies and the races, allowing pvp, races cant fight eachother, the only solution is to place semigod guards killing you each time, before you with your daedra armor hit that little mage lvl1 with his apprentice ropes. Or simply forbide mechanically the option to attack at that zones, that can be. But maybe would even bother you in a greater way. Anyway what to do then? Trade with alduin and then return to the greybeards? Fight alongside with empire and then return with stormcloack, not possible in any tes game but you want to do it in this, then i wonder who is the one wanting an mmo themepark and who wanting a real tes with good and evil main story faction you cant change.

What is your problem guys, this game have the same but improved combat system, but omg it has a hotkey bar, in other tes you only have... a hot key whell or a hot key favourite list with shouts, spells, potions weapons... what a daring from devs to use a bar in this to approach mmo... or simply a non-pause gameplay style... they have improved the combat with finesse, better ia, sinergies... (is not in other ES or made by bethesda so i am not interested) XDD

They have made a crafting system worthy of an elder scrolls

They have made a quest style with the same choices and objectives in any ES, oh but i have read all in elder scrolls was epic in a hero perspective just as to decide the love of a girl in mara quest or collect plants for an alchemist in riften. But now all ES is epic, you have event read more than 2 quests over the internet but TESO quest sucks XDDD you are so funny.

They have made a progression system very similar to any ES but OMG they have classes restrictions.... Cough oblivion cough... It dont have destruction or conjuration trees it only has sorcerer skills trees called storm calling or daedra summoning XDDDDD, of course there werent class restrictions in the past...... Cough oblivion cough...

They have made a world inspired in other games, they have a lore master but the story of a game you havent even play is not worthy of an elder scrolls, of course any quest of skyrim transports you to an ancient knowledge of past ages, and any structure has is own legend... XDDD

They have made a open world where you can go anywhere, but wait a moment you are supposed to go to a specific zone, because of course in any ES you can go kill alduin in first and then return to salute a bandit in pelt armor. 

"Different locations in Skyrim have different inherent difficulties. In other words, some dungeons are designed to be too difficult for low-level characters to enter. More challenging dungeons are generally located at higher elevations, meaning that early in the game, players may want to avoid mountainous regions. However, more difficult dungeons contain better rewards. In addition, some high-quality items can be randomly found even early in the game."

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Leveling

 

So your only problem here is if in a TES VI bethesda decide made summerset isles and let you choice between some races for thalmor and others for the empire with diferents game you will clap, and say is the best game ever, if zenimax make an mmo where the thalmor and empire are both roled by players and you cant join other faction you have this thread.... Purists, your purity is so funny, (even some people can call it fanboyism), purist who criticize this game playing in 3, 2, 1...

 

Sorry for my english i am spanish

 

  alakyen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 33

3/28/13 1:39:22 AM#427
Originally posted by Anakami
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by rygard49

You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?

I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game.  More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit.  This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.

If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself.  What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated?  How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?

As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.

That's the funny thing though. For you it is immersion breaking if you see someone of a certainr ace kill other members of that race. For me it is immersion breaking if I can't see that or do it myself. Because, last time I checked, Elder Scrolls was about choice and freedom to do exactly those things you just mentioned.

if I am a dark elf, who says I have to like my own kin and never draw a weapon against them? That's like saying in Skyrim, when you pick a Nord, you should never ever kill any other Nord. Again, this might work in any other setting that has a good explanation for this, but it really is not Elder Scrolls.

Now it seems that NPCs won't care for your choice of race anyway and just give out quests to whoever walks by. Great, I say, then there should not be any issue with having the PvE world open fromt he start and featuring 3 starting zones to choose from. Let the 3 Alliances/Factions be a political thing that players can choose who they would like to follow. Won't change anything about their AvA concept.

With the way they set up their mega server and balance campaigns it does not matter if one race is hugely more popular than another one. The same would be true if you could freely choose one of the 3 alliances. Nothing would change about their PvP mechanics. The only thing that changes is that the game would feel a lot more like ES if they get rid of the silly race lock and have the PvE world open to everyone.

So in your paranoia you justify kill greybeards and then get help from them to kill alduin just because you were bored, and that not break your inmersion, pass me that weed is very good man.

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2664

3/28/13 1:47:41 AM#428
People from other races should be able to enter other people's zones....then they have to sit in internment camps until the war is over. 
  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

3/28/13 4:22:08 AM#429

Soon you have TES the original solo game series and you have TESO that only share part of name and some gamelore, but 2 totally different games.

It prolly will implement more featers from other games then original TES so it can be some kind version from DAOC implemented but not realy any ressambling with orignal TES game, Thats why im not realy interested in this themepark mmo for mass market aimed at cassualsand familiar thmepark gameplay.

No doub in my mind pvp will be alot similair to those other themeparks with ezmode no risk pvp.

My first elderscroll i bought around 2000 daggerfall sinds then and specially after morrowind i became a huge fan of bethesda and TES and stil playing Skyrim after 300+ hours with 20k+ mods to choose from and now legendary mode.

TESO i leave to themepark generation.

  alakyen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 33

3/28/13 4:51:34 AM#430
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

Soon you have TES the original solo game series and you have TESO that only share part of name and some gamelore, but 2 totally different games.

It prolly will implement more featers from other games then original TES so it can be some kind version from DAOC implemented but not realy any ressambling with orignal TES game, Thats why im not realy interested in this themepark mmo for mass market aimed at cassualsand familiar thmepark gameplay.

No doub in my mind pvp will be alot similair to those other themeparks with ezmode no risk pvp.

My first elderscroll i bought around 2000 daggerfall sinds then and specially after morrowind i became a huge fan of bethesda and TES and stil playing Skyrim after 300+ hours with 20k+ mods to choose from and now legendary mode.

TESO i leave to themepark generation.

Said by a charr in the biggest themepark ever gw2 where all is so similar that you dont have even quest text

Anybody play a TES game with the guide of a main story findind a lot of dungeons and secondary quest and quest chains in the procces that inmerse you in different task you must deal with a realistic movements and mouse-based combat and list of spells to support you, aiming to your target, and being rewarded with new weapons armor and other object, with a realistic crafting that can make almost any weapon and armor/object, and surrounded of an alive world where npc has his own life and problems you can choose to steal things, be a bad guy or be a pure hero, or any other role of it, thanks to a skill trees based progression... Exactly what TESO is, any other things are minor things that dont change in a big way the experience.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 103

3/28/13 11:28:30 AM#431

@alakyen

I would like you to ask in how many Elder Scrolls games you were put into a faction when you chose a race?

How many Elder Scrolls games assumed that just because you are race X you have to side with faction Y?

You brought up Skyrim, and while it is true that your options regarding the war story line are rather limited, at least you have 3, regardless of your race choice:
 

Stormcloaks, Imperials, No Participation in war

And that's how it should be happening. You choose who you want to support. Just because you pick Nord does not mean you need to be a Stormcloak.

The way it is now in ESO is as if in Skyrim you would create your character, choose your race and from there on the game would automatically assume you were allied with one of the two warring factions. You can not opt out. And you will be attacked by the opposing faction just because you are race X.

And that is -imo- not ES.

  Monstre0auS

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 46

3/30/13 8:21:43 AM#432

I have argued in this thread regarding reasons why the way TESO was being developed initially with faction lock made sense (relating to real life history, current war situations [The current Korean peninsula climate for instance] etc), I even posted in another thread of similar popularity a means to an end in removing the factional boundaries (invisible walls) by allowing for political and espionage questing: one thing I did not expect to see happen however was ZoS making a concession in allowing for total world exploration within your own faction, albeit at level 50. When I did read that this was indeed happening I was honestly, rather pissed.

 

The following is an excerpt from another forum thread "Will the real ESO please stand-up?", written by myself and posted here so some people can understand why I have been so uncharacteristically silent from this debate.

 

"It wasn't the fact that there were people on this forum claiming a David vs. Goliath victory over the Devs/ZoS (although, Caliburn101, Sapphen- at one stage I believed this was the cause of my frustration, I took time away from this subject to avoid any emotionally charged, inflammatory remarks, as I know you both prefer proper discourse).

 

It wasn't the fact that I foresaw the opportunity for ZoS to 'pin the blame' on the community at large, stating They 'gave Us what we wanted' on any loss of momentum in delivering a final product, or if in giving a concession to ease the fans ruined aspects of lore or gameplay, ie: "You wanted to be able to travel to that faction, now you're complaining that it's ruining immersion, it's YOUR fault".

 

No, in the end, the thing that annoyed me most about this sudden abrupt change to the design of the game, in allowing people to cross borders and now potentially being able to form cross faction groups, is that when I read up on this game several months ago; NONE OF THAT was the established design of the game. There was no concession, there was no cross faction grouping, this has all come so suddenly that it's conflicting with what I was excited for..

 

I actually got excited at the prospect of being in a faction at war. I didn't even care for the PvP element, I'm a PvE'r at heart, and I've never played DAoC-- I was genuinely looking forward to the way they portrayed a world embroiled in mass conflict, the way that your race would interact with oppossing races (espionage, internment camps, etc), the way that your race played politics within it's own faction to vie for outright faction control. That potential for political intrigue piqued my curiosity and had me semi-hooked at a glance. Now when I look at the game, I have to remind myself to forget that this was an element to begin with.

 

I'm all for studios making a design decision to allow for form to follow function: but when it's done at the 11th hour as a form of appeasement to the loyalists, I can't help but reach for the stress ball hoping, that the implementation is as well thought out as the decision to listen to the fans."

 

Personally, I think ZoS has to rework their homepage to correct any conflicting lore and gameplay information that is on there, add an addendum to any articles that cannot be re-worked clarifying the changes and why they have been made, finally and this is the most important point in consideration, make a guarantee that this decision although potentially spurred on by the loyalist fans of the TES IP, will still be their responsibility to own upto, if the gameplay they deliver is subpar. They made a decision to concede elements of gameplay and make the changes. The onus should remain on Them to ensure it's delivered to the standard we expect, that We do not become a scapegoat for mediocrity. I think everyone should agree on that.

 

And that's my $0.02.

  Volmok

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/12
Posts: 64

3/30/13 8:27:53 AM#433

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/03/13 3:35:15 PM#434
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5281

4/03/13 3:48:11 PM#435
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1130

4/03/13 3:52:33 PM#436
I wish. I doubt it has such high hopes, though.
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/03/13 3:58:43 PM#437
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5281

4/03/13 4:08:26 PM#438
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4562

4/03/13 4:20:14 PM#439
Originally posted by alakyen
Originally posted by Anakami
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by rygard49

You hope they're being intentionally deceptive so that they can capitalize on exploiting a specific type of gamer up front, and then change everything after they've gotten into our wallets? Why would you hope that? At that point, wouldn't you be concerned that the developer could no longer be trusted?

I'm impling that once the game gets going, most players will come to the realization that 'faction pride' is not affected by race locks in this game.  More and more players will begin to desire the freedom in other Elder Scrolls games and Zenimax will follow suit.  This entire arguement will be dust to the wind in faded memories.

If you're the type of player that feels the ENTIRE GAME WILL BE RUINED if they unlock factions then the developers did not exploit you, you exploited yourself.  What you need to ask yourself is this; if I am correct and they remove faction locks, do you have a right to be disgruntaled or feel cheated?  How would you express your concerns with the community and developers?

As long as the maps stay locked and the factions dont mix, I dont care what they do with the races. As long as it does not break immersion with the quests and story. Last thing I want to see is a darkelf doing a quest for highelves killing darkelves. I personally think what SWToR did with races was awesome. Let people play more races per faction but was still not everyone that had all the races. So seeing a Sith pure blood Jedi was rare.

That's the funny thing though. For you it is immersion breaking if you see someone of a certainr ace kill other members of that race. For me it is immersion breaking if I can't see that or do it myself. Because, last time I checked, Elder Scrolls was about choice and freedom to do exactly those things you just mentioned.

if I am a dark elf, who says I have to like my own kin and never draw a weapon against them? That's like saying in Skyrim, when you pick a Nord, you should never ever kill any other Nord. Again, this might work in any other setting that has a good explanation for this, but it really is not Elder Scrolls.

Now it seems that NPCs won't care for your choice of race anyway and just give out quests to whoever walks by. Great, I say, then there should not be any issue with having the PvE world open fromt he start and featuring 3 starting zones to choose from. Let the 3 Alliances/Factions be a political thing that players can choose who they would like to follow. Won't change anything about their AvA concept.

With the way they set up their mega server and balance campaigns it does not matter if one race is hugely more popular than another one. The same would be true if you could freely choose one of the 3 alliances. Nothing would change about their PvP mechanics. The only thing that changes is that the game would feel a lot more like ES if they get rid of the silly race lock and have the PvE world open to everyone.

So in your paranoia you justify kill greybeards and then get help from them to kill alduin just because you were bored, and that not break your inmersion, pass me that weed is very good man.

Thats called a chaotic neutral character many games and movies have those types of characters how is it immersion breaking?  Those types of characters are usually freelancer types. Han Solo, Jack Sparrow. And you got characters like Drizzt Do'urden who against the ways of his own race.  lol real life must be a huge game breaker for you since there are humans killing eachother all the time.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/04/13 4:42:11 AM#440
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

OK I'm answering the last red bit;

Of course you can make changes - but they didn't do it sympathetically. The Mario games fanbase didn't hanker for years for a multiplayer version of the game - so when a new Maerio game came out with a different game style it was fine - no hopes or expectation broken.

However, TES fans have been waiting for someone to make an MMO or multiplayer version for a long time. The fact is (as is now moot - they are doing it...) that they put too much bias on mass PvP and not enough consideration for what makes TES games GREAT.

You are flat out wrong if you think a company seeking to make money and gain reputation from a game aimed squarely at an existing fanbase doesn't take full account of the things that they love about that IP.

It would seem they now agree having seen the widespread surprise and dissapointment expressed on every forum from here to the four corners of the internet about these very issues.

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

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