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Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
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475 posts found
  Onigod

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 694

3/19/13 11:47:15 AM#361

This game feels like its really being forced.

 

For me this currently is nothing more but an attempt at milking out this name for cash.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

3/19/13 11:58:57 AM#362
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

You look at the history of Earth. Countries that once heated eachother ally together laters in our history. Then we had world wars that changed everything and thats kinda whats going on in ESO. This MMO takes place a 1000 years outside the game of TES. Why would alliances be the same? History over a 1000 years will in many ways like our worlds history be very different over that large a time span. Stop thinking inside a box. 

No. According to the "logic" from those few long-winded Elder Scroll elitists, everyone must be allied at all times. Things like the British and the US being close allies today could never have happened, since there was a bloody, brutal war between the two a few centuries back.

There's also such a thing as suspension of disbelief, which let's normal folk buy in to an otherwise ludicrous tale for the sake of enjoyment.  It appears that the top rung of the true Elder Scroll fanbase no longer possess the capability of performing that simple mental trick.

Unlike of course the simple mental trick you are using to make your point...

There is as you probably well know, a natural limit to suspension of disbelief (SOB) - or we could all happily accept Pacman standing in for the Hulk in Avenger's Assemble...

... and the more one establishes a particular way of representing something, the more it becomes familiar and the less room there is for effective SOB.

You see - 'long winded' "logic" trumps 'half cocked' "dogma" any day...

Art should mimic life, so like alliances changing in RL, so should they in the game. This is not breaking lore its growing it. Where would Star Wars be witout the expanded universe. The books and adding to the lore and story have added a depth that the fans love. There are times in the lore where Jedi and Sith have joined forces. Times in the lore where there were only a handfull of jedi out numbered by the sith and the other way around. Do you really want the same cookie cutter lore/story? Walking into the game knowing everything about this time in TES history? What fun would that be? Not much IMO. Growing and adding to the lore/story is needed to keep the game alive. Where there is no growth death is quick to take over.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

3/19/13 12:01:15 PM#363
Originally posted by Caliburn101

There's a world of difference between a hypothetical someone and an actual someone rygard49 - but 'nice try' taking my last line out of context by removing the preceding text...

... I see you are a student of the 'change the previous post to suit my response' school of internet discourse...

In fact I think that school should have a name - something like the 'Reconceivers' or the 'Insequent', .... maybe the 'Surrogates'...

... hmm I'll have to think on it...

No. You threw out a blanket statement that ANYONE who says something different than you lacks a sufficient IQ. You've actually gone beyond calling just one person stupid, you're now calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. That's not a hypothetical someone.

Your preceding text had nothing to do with point I was making, that you were being a hypocrite, therefore it was removed. I had honestly hoped you would have gotten that, seeing as the entire rest of your post was irrelevant to that point. In the future I'll leave your full posts intact and will go to an old standby I've seen others use... color coding!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

3/19/13 12:03:55 PM#364
Originally posted by Onigod

This game feels like its really being forced.

 

For me this currently is nothing more but an attempt at milking out this name for cash.

Ok, lets chuck out just the ability to go anywhere and have any race join any faction. Whats missing that makes this not a TES game? Because it takes more then the two options I just listed to make a TES game. Really whats missing?

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

3/19/13 12:07:39 PM#365
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Caliburn101

There's a world of difference between a hypothetical someone and an actual someone rygard49 - but 'nice try' taking my last line out of context by removing the preceding text...

... I see you are a student of the 'change the previous post to suit my response' school of internet discourse...

In fact I think that school should have a name - something like the 'Reconceivers' or the 'Insequent', .... maybe the 'Surrogates'...

... hmm I'll have to think on it...

No. You threw out a blanket statement that ANYONE who says something different than you lacks a sufficient IQ. You've actually gone beyond calling just one person stupid, you're now calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid. That's not a hypothetical someone.

Your preceding text had nothing to do with point I was making, that you were being a hypocrite, therefore it was removed. I had honestly hoped you would have gotten that, seeing as the entire rest of your post was irrelevant to that point. In the future I'll leave your full posts intact and will go to an old standby I've seen others use... color coding!

You look good in green =-)

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

3/19/13 12:09:07 PM#366
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

You look at the history of Earth. Countries that once heated eachother ally together laters in our history. Then we had world wars that changed everything and thats kinda whats going on in ESO. This MMO takes place a 1000 years outside the game of TES. Why would alliances be the same? History over a 1000 years will in many ways like our worlds history be very different over that large a time span. Stop thinking inside a box. 

No. According to the "logic" from those few long-winded Elder Scroll elitists, everyone must be allied at all times. Things like the British and the US being close allies today could never have happened, since there was a bloody, brutal war between the two a few centuries back.

There's also such a thing as suspension of disbelief, which let's normal folk buy in to an otherwise ludicrous tale for the sake of enjoyment.  It appears that the top rung of the true Elder Scroll fanbase no longer possess the capability of performing that simple mental trick.

Unlike of course the simple mental trick you are using to make your point...

There is as you probably well know, a natural limit to suspension of disbelief (SOB) - or we could all happily accept Pacman standing in for the Hulk in Avenger's Assemble...

... and the more one establishes a particular way of representing something, the more it becomes familiar and the less room there is for effective SOB.

You see - 'long winded' "logic" trumps 'half cocked' "dogma" any day...

Well exaggeration is certainly something you pocess no shortage of. We're not talking about a large leap of faith (get it?) in terms of accepting the lore. They're not putting the Enterprise and the Federation Starfleet up as a fourth faction.

The only dogmatic statements in this forum belong to the members of the Church of True ES.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/19/13 12:24:08 PM#367

Hm, while the news about being able to explore the other zones at 50 is a step in the right direction, it still changes nothing about the main issues I have with their interpretation of TES. It is also the simplicity of their concept, not in a good way though. What they could have done with a bit more creativity, a bit more appreciation to the lore...

Factions that fight each other because they want to claim some of Molag Baals power for themselves or use daedric artifacts.

Factions that welcome all and everyone willing to fight for them and agreeing with their ideals. Come to think of it, how are they going to explain the Fighter's Guild and all the other universal guilds having members of all three major alliances? Are the guild meetings going to be one big bloodbath?

There is so much immersion breaking stuff in here that the Suspension of Disbelief just cannot handle all of it. One of the worst offenders here is the inability to talk/understand people from the other Alliances. Never, ever, was it a problem in a PvP environment if you could talk to membersof the opposing faction.

You got more flaming and grief from people of your own faction usually :D

I am not too surprised though. Judging from their website and the description and the lore there, it is very obvious that PvP came first and TES a very distant second, if at all.

The saddest part is this: they could have had all their PvP and MMO mechanics and still integrate it harmoniously with the established TES setting without killing its "soul". They just chose not to bother themselves too much with it and went the lazy path of convenience.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

3/19/13 12:33:30 PM#368
Originally posted by Anakami

Hm, while the news about being able to explore the other zones at 50 is a step in the right direction, it still changes nothing about the main issues I have with their interpretation of TES. It is also the simplicity of their concept, not in a good way though. What they could have done with a bit more creativity, a bit more appreciation to the lore...

Factions that fight each other because they want to claim some of Molag Baals power for themselves or use daedric artifacts.

Factions that welcome all and everyone willing to fight for them and agreeing with their ideals. Come to think of it, how are they going to explain the Fighter's Guild and all the other universal guilds having members of all three major alliances? Are the guild meetings going to be one big bloodbath?

There is so much immersion breaking stuff in here that the Suspension of Disbelief just cannot handle all of it. One of the worst offenders here is the inability to talk/understand people from the other Alliances. Never, ever, was it a problem in a PvP environment if you could talk to membersof the opposing faction.

You got more flaming and grief from people of your own faction usually :D

I am not too surprised though. Judging from their website and the description and the lore there, it is very obvious that PvP came first and TES a very distant second, if at all.

The saddest part is this: they could have had all their PvP and MMO mechanics and still integrate it harmoniously with the established TES setting without killing its "soul". They just chose not to bother themselves too much with it and went the lazy path of convenience.

The 3 faction war is just one part of the game. They have some really awesome PvE plans. DAoC did not just have awesome PvP, the 3 factions had some of the best PvE I have played. Locked faction maps does not mean bad PvE or story. 

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 12:41:21 PM#369
@Anakami You cannot kill what it does not have.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/19/13 12:52:22 PM#370

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Anakami

Hm, while the news about being able to explore the other zones at 50 is a step in the right direction, it still changes nothing about the main issues I have with their interpretation of TES. It is also the simplicity of their concept, not in a good way though. What they could have done with a bit more creativity, a bit more appreciation to the lore...

Factions that fight each other because they want to claim some of Molag Baals power for themselves or use daedric artifacts.

Factions that welcome all and everyone willing to fight for them and agreeing with their ideals. Come to think of it, how are they going to explain the Fighter's Guild and all the other universal guilds having members of all three major alliances? Are the guild meetings going to be one big bloodbath?

There is so much immersion breaking stuff in here that the Suspension of Disbelief just cannot handle all of it. One of the worst offenders here is the inability to talk/understand people from the other Alliances. Never, ever, was it a problem in a PvP environment if you could talk to membersof the opposing faction.

You got more flaming and grief from people of your own faction usually :D

I am not too surprised though. Judging from their website and the description and the lore there, it is very obvious that PvP came first and TES a very distant second, if at all.

The saddest part is this: they could have had all their PvP and MMO mechanics and still integrate it harmoniously with the established TES setting without killing its "soul". They just chose not to bother themselves too much with it and went the lazy path of convenience.

The 3 faction war is just one part of the game. They have some really awesome PvE plans. DAoC did not just have awesome PvP, the 3 factions had some of the best PvE I have played. Locked faction maps does not mean bad PvE or story.

Originally posted by jimdandy26
@Anakami You cannot kill what it does not have.

@Nanfoodle Maybe I have not made entirely clear what my issue is with the game, because you keep coming up with examples where we actually agree on. So let me try to put it as obvious as I can: My biggest gripe with their design decisions lies entirely in the way they set up their 3 alliance war. How they chose to group up the different races and for what reasons. The feeling of perpetual war, of fostering hatred towards the other cultures in Tamriel so that you can feel some pride in your own faction.

Or to make it even shorter: They decided to insert an AvA all out war setting into TES. Imo it does not fit a TES game.

@jimdandy26

Well, that's a very subjective thing after all, isn't it? I will argue though that the quality of writing and the general depth of the TES games have suffered since Morrowind. It still has a soul for me, a general feeling that only belongs to Tamriel.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

3/19/13 1:24:49 PM#371
Originally posted by Anakami

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Anakami

Hm, while the news about being able to explore the other zones at 50 is a step in the right direction, it still changes nothing about the main issues I have with their interpretation of TES. It is also the simplicity of their concept, not in a good way though. What they could have done with a bit more creativity, a bit more appreciation to the lore...

Factions that fight each other because they want to claim some of Molag Baals power for themselves or use daedric artifacts.

Factions that welcome all and everyone willing to fight for them and agreeing with their ideals. Come to think of it, how are they going to explain the Fighter's Guild and all the other universal guilds having members of all three major alliances? Are the guild meetings going to be one big bloodbath?

There is so much immersion breaking stuff in here that the Suspension of Disbelief just cannot handle all of it. One of the worst offenders here is the inability to talk/understand people from the other Alliances. Never, ever, was it a problem in a PvP environment if you could talk to membersof the opposing faction.

You got more flaming and grief from people of your own faction usually :D

I am not too surprised though. Judging from their website and the description and the lore there, it is very obvious that PvP came first and TES a very distant second, if at all.

The saddest part is this: they could have had all their PvP and MMO mechanics and still integrate it harmoniously with the established TES setting without killing its "soul". They just chose not to bother themselves too much with it and went the lazy path of convenience.

The 3 faction war is just one part of the game. They have some really awesome PvE plans. DAoC did not just have awesome PvP, the 3 factions had some of the best PvE I have played. Locked faction maps does not mean bad PvE or story.

Originally posted by jimdandy26
@Anakami You cannot kill what it does not have.

@Nanfoodle Maybe I have not made entirely clear what my issue is with the game, because you keep coming up with examples where we actually agree on. So let me try to put it as obvious as I can: My biggest gripe with their design decisions lies entirely in the way they set up their 3 alliance war. How they chose to group up the different races and for what reasons. The feeling of perpetual war, of fostering hatred towards the other cultures in Tamriel so that you can feel some pride in your own faction.

Or to make it even shorter: They decided to insert an AvA all out war setting into TES. Imo it does not fit a TES game.

@jimdandy26

Well, that's a very subjective thing after all, isn't it? I will argue though that the quality of writing and the general depth of the TES games have suffered since Morrowind. It still has a soul for me, a general feeling that only belongs to Tamriel.

I got that, as I said directed to that, 1000 years of history a lot can happen. Some like you keep saying it does not fit the lore but thats short sighted. Maybe your right and the lore and story writen for this time in the TES history will be really badly done but maybe it will add depth that will add greatly to TES lore. As it stands now, its not outside the norm of how RL history works.  Alliances change and thats a fact. Its a little early to call it yet.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 1:33:02 PM#372
Originally posted by Anakami

@jimdandy26

Well, that's a very subjective thing after all, isn't it? I will argue though that the quality of writing and the general depth of the TES games have suffered since Morrowind. It still has a soul for me, a general feeling that only belongs to Tamriel.

But it is not subjective. You are trying to hide "what I like about Tes" behind some absurd idea in order to garner sympathy for what you want. Just as I have said throughout the forum, are you really going to lament on about the "soul" of Final Fantasy? Mario? Star Wars? Star Trek? *Insert beloved Ip here*? These things do not have souls. And coperations are not people.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4102

3/19/13 1:38:03 PM#373
Originally posted by Anakami

I am not too surprised though. Judging from their website and the description and the lore there, it is very obvious that PvP came first and TES a very distant second, if at all.

The saddest part is this: they could have had all their PvP and MMO mechanics and still integrate it harmoniously with the established TES setting without killing its "soul". They just chose not to bother themselves too much with it and went the lazy path of convenience.

What if war broke out and due to the geography 3 loose alliances were formed? Why is it so hard for the Guardians of the Pure TES Lore to imagine possibilities? Don't you think that wars are sufficiently important to overtake concerns about trivial selfish pursuits and become the predominant social obsession?

No amount of melodramatic phrasing like "...TES a very distant second, if at all" changes the reality that the non-fundamentalist TES fans (i.e., everyone else in this forum except for a self-congratulatory ostentatious handful) all see. Namely, this is very much a TES game set in an environment where a a 3-way war has broken out.

Killing its soul...please. It really takes very little imagination to accomodate this new twist on the TES story into the lore.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/19/13 1:40:20 PM#374

Hey, I am all for artistic freedom and experimenting with new things that can add to existing lore. It's just that with a setting like this we are straying very far from what we have come to expect from a TES setting. So far, in fact, that it might have breached a point where it is too unfimiliar, too alien to still evoke a sense of "This is Tamriel".

To give an example: I have some issues imagining a Tamriel where the only races I am going to see and interact with is limited to 3 in total. I mean, that's like playing a Skyrim where there are only Nords, Argonians and Dunmer. No Khajiit caravans, no Bosmer shop keepers, no Orcish strongholds or Redguard travelers. What I am getting at is that I will miss the cultural diversity which is imo one of the strong points of the TES franchise. You can't have that in a setting like they chose for TESO.

And, again imo, it was totally unnecessary to do so. They could have made their 3 faction RVR but have the PvE part of the world, which is kinda everything except Cyrodiil, open and filled with different sorts of conflict. Why does it have to be race specific?

I wouldn't have such an issue with their PvP design if it wouldn't affect so many areas of the game world that it is increasingly becoming too far removed from the Tamriel I know and appreciate. As I said, artistic freedom is great, adding new stuff to the lore is also a great thing, but there needs to be a threshold you don't cross.

@Iselin

Killing its soul...please. It really takes very little imagination to accomodate this new twist on the TES story into the lore.

It also takes very little imagination to come up with a lore explanation that doesn't restrict the game in so many ways ;)

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

3/19/13 1:43:50 PM#375
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Anakami

@jimdandy26

Well, that's a very subjective thing after all, isn't it? I will argue though that the quality of writing and the general depth of the TES games have suffered since Morrowind. It still has a soul for me, a general feeling that only belongs to Tamriel.

But it is not subjective. You are trying to hide "what I like about Tes" behind some absurd idea in order to garner sympathy for what you want. Just as I have said throughout the forum, are you really going to lament on about the "soul" of Final Fantasy? Mario? Star Wars? Star Trek? *Insert beloved Ip here*? These things do not have souls. And coperations are not people.

Many of the stories Jimdandy26 listed are also stories that have expanded on their simple launching off points. What if every Marior games only had him fixing pipes, or saving his girlfriend Peach? What if Star Wars had stuck with most of the Jedi being wiped out or that the force was the most powerful power in the universe? We as fans would have missed out on so much. Video games need to grow and become more then their roots if they want to keep making new games. The changes in ESO are not so far from the founding lore that its odd like the federation from star trek is the 4th faction.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4102

3/19/13 1:52:00 PM#376
Originally posted by Anakami

Hey, I am all for artistic freedom and experimenting with new things that can add to existing lore. It's just that with a setting like this we are straying very far from what we have come to expect from a TES setting. So far, in fact, that it might have breached a point where it is too unfimiliar, too alien to still evoke a sense of "This is Tamriel".

To give an example: I have some issues imagining a Tamriel where the only races I am going to see and interact with is limited to 3 in total. I mean, that's like playing a Skyrim where there are only Nords, Argonians and Dunmer. No Khajiit caravans, no Bosmer shop keepers, no Orcish strongholds or Redguard travelers. What I am getting at is that I will miss the cultural diversity which is imo one of the strong points of the TES franchise. You can't have that in a setting like they chose for TESO.

And, again imo, it was totally unnecessary to do so. They could have made their 3 faction RVR but have the PvE part of the world, which is kinda everything except Cyrodiil, open and filled with different sorts of conflict. Why does it have to be race specific?

I wouldn't have such an issue with their PvP design if it wouldn't affect so many areas of the game world that it is increasingly becoming too far removed from the Tamriel I know and appreciate. As I said, artistic freedom is great, adding new stuff to the lore is also a great thing, but there needs to be a threshold you don't cross.

@Iselin

Killing its soul...please. It really takes very little imagination to accomodate this new twist on the TES story into the lore.

It also takes very little imagination to come up with a lore explanation that doesn't restrict the game in so many ways ;)

Such as? Which are the holy TES thresholds?

All I hear is the same "I can't go everywhere with anyone" whine repeated in new ways here daily. There's nothing holy about that... it's a feature that has existed--within reason, the single player areas have all been pretty tiny compared to the MMO world-- in the single player franchise known as TES. Now a multi-player version is being developed for the first time and it differs from the single player version. Which heretical threshold crossing exactly did they engage in? 

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/19/13 1:55:30 PM#377
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Anakami

@jimdandy26

Well, that's a very subjective thing after all, isn't it? I will argue though that the quality of writing and the general depth of the TES games have suffered since Morrowind. It still has a soul for me, a general feeling that only belongs to Tamriel.

But it is not subjective. You are trying to hide "what I like about Tes" behind some absurd idea in order to garner sympathy for what you want. Just as I have said throughout the forum, are you really going to lament on about the "soul" of Final Fantasy? Mario? Star Wars? Star Trek? *Insert beloved Ip here*? These things do not have souls. And coperations are not people.

Hm, first of all: I do not hide anything. I have made very clear what I think about TESO and what I like or do not like. And there is no hidden agenda here except that I wish to express my disappointment with some of the design choices they made.

And about the soul of a game...what I mean by that is the things I associate with a game world and also the things that give me the most enjoyment when playing these games. It is by its very nature subjective because it all depends on me and my perception.

Unless you want to tell me that my personal perception is wrong and only yours is right :D

 

Such as? Which are the holy TES thresholds?

I already have tried to explain it a few times,but let me do it once more: cultural diversity which also makes a game world more lively and more interesting. Can't have that in a rigid 3 races each faction setup.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 1:57:43 PM#378
Originally posted by Anakami

It also takes very little imagination to come up with a lore explanation that doesn't restrict the game in so many ways ;)

But lore takes a back seat to mechanics (and should!) as you so clearly accepted with the numerous mindblowing inconsistancies within the games and the universe itself.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

3/19/13 2:01:12 PM#379
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Anakami

It also takes very little imagination to come up with a lore explanation that doesn't restrict the game in so many ways ;)

But lore takes a back seat to mechanics (and should!) as you so clearly accepted with the numerous mindblowing inconsistancies within the games and the universe itself.

See, we agree ^^ But as I said before, with some of the compromises I am ok with, with some I think they went too far from the original flavour of TES.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/19/13 2:01:13 PM#380
Originally posted by Anakami
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Anakami

@jimdandy26

Well, that's a very subjective thing after all, isn't it? I will argue though that the quality of writing and the general depth of the TES games have suffered since Morrowind. It still has a soul for me, a general feeling that only belongs to Tamriel.

But it is not subjective. You are trying to hide "what I like about Tes" behind some absurd idea in order to garner sympathy for what you want. Just as I have said throughout the forum, are you really going to lament on about the "soul" of Final Fantasy? Mario? Star Wars? Star Trek? *Insert beloved Ip here*? These things do not have souls. And coperations are not people.

Hm, first of all: I do not hide anything. I have made very clear what I think about TESO and what I like or do not like. And there is no hidden agenda here except that I wish to express my disappointment with some of the design choices they made.

And about the soul of a game...what I mean by that is the things I associate with a game world and also the things that give me the most enjoyment when playing these games. It is by its very nature subjective because it all depends on me and my perception.

Unless you want to tell me that my personal perception is wrong and only yours is right :D

 

Such as? Which are the holy TES thresholds?

I already have tried to explain it a few times,but let me do it once more: cultural diversity which also makes a game world more lively and more interesting. Can't have that in a rigid 3 races each faction setup.

Who are you to shove that down the creators throats when they want to take this particular peice of the Ip in a new direction? I mean you threw a shit fit over Redguard too right? Since you know it did not include much of that "culteral diversity" and "freedom" you are going on about.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

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