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475 posts found
  Monstre0auS

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 46

3/12/13 8:20:23 AM#321

Reading this forum (Woah, seriously, 30+ pages now, this -IS- a passionate discussion) I can't help but read everyones' arguments and think of Tool's Hooker With A Penis, playing in the back of my mind. Especially this bit,

'All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb f**k.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip s**t,
And you bought one.
'

Personally, when TESO is released (or if I am invited to beta) I'll log into the game not looking for a TES franchise, nor looking for a DAoC rehash (I never actually played DAoC) but looking for an mmo set to some of the lore of TES. That's all I'm asking for.

I had the same mentality when I first purchased Bethesda Softworks', Fallout 3... And after having played Urban Wasteland, through to Fallout Tactics, I can tell you how trepidatious I was with that, wondering if the lore of the previous games would ring true in this new interpretation. Turns out, New Vegas is one of my favourite Fallout titles.

The reality is, we're all buying media that is an interpretation. We may like some, we may hate others, but what we are getting is what an artist views a particular subject matter as made whole, whether it's a game mechanic or an animation or a class/character/territory restriction, this is an artists' interpretation of that subject matter.

If you don't like it, then don't like it, voice your concerns that you don't like it, but you cannot say, legitimately that it is wrong. Because it's not your interpretation, it's theirs, and if they say it's right, it right.

If you still insist that it is wrong, hipsters love quoting Oscar Wilde, do yourself a favour and live by this mantra, 'All art is quite useless'.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4089

3/12/13 8:43:38 AM#322
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
 

It must take a lot out of you and others like you who like to hate on a game. You have no clue how indepth the exploring is in this game but if you cant go everywhere on one char its a fail. There is more to exploring in a MMO then going everywhere on one char. We know so little about the details your stand seems so silly to me. The mages story is about exploring, they have talked about making sure there are lots of ruins to explore, caves and 2 man open world dungeons. That seems to make the explorer in me happy and for all we know that could be the half of it. I dont get haters, if you dont like it go find a game you do and dont buy this one.

There is only one thing wrong with this game - and as much as you go on about other people not having a clue about how much exploration is in the game - even a village idiot can work out that there would be twice as much without a lockout. There is no point arguing against this point - it's basic maths.

the freedom to explore the entire gameworld.

The three biggest threads on this forum are about this very issue - and any poll or opinion gathering exercise clearly shows no more than a third of people happy with Zenimax's model 'as is'.

There are a great many TES fans who don't like being restricted - and a few vocal DAoC fans such as yourself (and please... don't bother to deny it - your very many lurid green posts make it perfectly clear where you stand) who think that that restriction was 'innevitable', or 'required' to make a 3-way game work.

What simplistic, unimaginative and limited thinking...

It may well be that things cannot change wholesale at this stage, but then Zenimax didn't bother to discuss it with the IP fans before this point did they? There are also some reasonable ideas for part-fixes which would allow full exploration whilst not interfering with the questing set up YOU have made a great many assumptions about previously.

maybe those people seriously debating the issues can take you seriously.

 

Quantity does not equal quality. You want a buffet and I want fine dining. The care that’s been taken to give my faction an area to play without open world PvP, so real TES like me (played them many times) have a place to PvE without being bothered. No one trying to trick me to flag. So story and quests drive my factions story. So my immersion is not broken as a Darkelf tries to dance with me as I am killing his kind (NPCs) in some quest. Your idea of deep is shallow and watered down.

No one is stopping you, but stop thinking you can flip a switch and just go everywhere. Play the game as the devs intended and see each area as the faction it was designed for.

And the polls are made by people uphappy and are bias. The polls are on mmorpg.com that are full of people with all different ideas on what makes a good MMO. The polls dont cover TES fans who dont play MMOs like my good friend in RL who would never come to mmorpg.com and hear him say, "I dont want to PvP as I explore!" The polls are at best to be taken with a grain of salt. 

You assume much. I am as much a DAoC fan as I am a TES fan. My fav single player RPG of all times is TES games. I have played them to death and many times. Going back to the days when TES was 8 bit tech. My fav MMO model is DAoC and I have been waiting forever for a MMO to bring us a updated model of that game as they failed to with Warhammer and broke all the rules that made DAoC awesome. This really is my dream MMO and I hope they stick as close to the 3 faction model as they can.

Try harder, your lack of vision of what you are asking for shows lack of understanding of what ESO is becoming and if 1/3 of what you are all asking for happens, it would derail this game in ways that would make it fail. Been MMOing for almost 15 years and I have seen every major MMO launch and I am to the point I think MMOs are a magic mixture and the greats stumbled on greatness. EQ, DAoC, WoW and EVE to name a few. Recreating is not imaginative, its messing with greatness and at best a gambleSure add new features but keep the core game that worked alive.

What assumptions? You mean me talking about the faction map being designed for the faction that plays on it? You think they are going on about VO story for kill 10 rat quests? lol Everything about this game and lore of this time is about the war and why each faction has the right to rule. Why would the quests and VO stories focus be different? Sure I bet there is other types of quests and side stories, TES was always good at that. But the majority of whats there will be in a direction, that wont make sense for another faction to just go PvE there. If you dont see that you lack perception. 

My stand is simple, I agree with the direction of ESO. I will not stand by as haters go on and on and make a poop storm that has any chance to break this game. Come up with a good idea I would be glad to say so but at this point there has been none.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/12/13 8:45:36 AM#323
WTF was that multicoloured eyesore!
  BMBender

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 559

3/12/13 8:50:01 AM#324
fairy speach from fairy land; dunno didn't read it...taste the rainbow

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/12/13 9:00:22 AM#325
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

 

 

 

My stand is simple, I agree with the direction of ESO. I will not stand by as haters go on and on and make a poop storm that has any chance to break this game. Come up with a good idea I would be glad to say so but at this point there has been none.

I agree, your stand IS simple;

Simple in understanding. Simple in execution. Simple in reasoning.

As simple as thinking that any change to what YOU want will 'break' the game.

Yes - I would characterise your point of view as 'simple'.

Quite so...

... and perhaps in future you could refrain from giving everyone a multicoloured dayglow headache with your 'classy' posts.

It draws attention to be sure - which is presumably what you want them to do - but it does smack of style over substance...

... in a BIG way...

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4089

3/12/13 9:02:00 AM#326
Originally posted by Monstre0auS

Reading this forum (Woah, seriously, 30+ pages now, this -IS- a passionate discussion) I can't help but read everyones' arguments and think of Tool's Hooker With A Penis, playing in the back of my mind. Especially this bit,

'All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb f**k.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip s**t,
And you bought one.
'

Personally, when TESO is released (or if I am invited to beta) I'll log into the game not looking for a TES franchise, nor looking for a DAoC rehash (I never actually played DAoC) but looking for an mmo set to some of the lore of TES. That's all I'm asking for.

I had the same mentality when I first purchased Bethesda Softworks', Fallout 3... And after having played Urban Wasteland, through to Fallout Tactics, I can tell you how trepidatious I was with that, wondering if the lore of the previous games would ring true in this new interpretation. Turns out, New Vegas is one of my favourite Fallout titles.

The reality is, we're all buying media that is an interpretation. We may like some, we may hate others, but what we are getting is what an artist views a particular subject matter as made whole, whether it's a game mechanic or an animation or a class/character/territory restriction, this is an artists' interpretation of that subject matter.

If you don't like it, then don't like it, voice your concerns that you don't like it, but you cannot say, legitimately that it is wrong. Because it's not your interpretation, it's theirs, and if they say it's right, it right.

If you still insist that it is wrong, hipsters love quoting Oscar Wilde, do yourself a favour and live by this mantra, 'All art is quite useless'.

What a enlightened idea, play the game as the devs designed and interpreted, like it play it, or dont and walk away. 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4089

3/12/13 9:06:35 AM#327
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

 

 

 

My stand is simple, I agree with the direction of ESO. I will not stand by as haters go on and on and make a poop storm that has any chance to break this game. Come up with a good idea I would be glad to say so but at this point there has been none.

I agree, your stand IS simple;

Simple in understanding. Simple in execution. Simple in reasoning.

As simple as thinking that any change to what YOU want will 'break' the game.

Yes - I would characterise your point of view as 'simple'.

Quite so...

... and perhaps in future you could refrain from giving everyone a multicoloured dayglow headache with your 'classy' posts.

It draws attention to be sure - which is presumably what you want them to do - but it does smack of style over substance...

... in a BIG way...

If you dont get each color was in response to what I highlighted in your reply there is no hope for you. If my support of the game shows how simple minded I am, then so must all the devs making ESO. I can live with that, what do you do for a living? They do more creative projects in a day then most do in a month. 

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

3/12/13 9:17:29 AM#328
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Do you not see they have 3 sets of fans to deal with...

1. MMO fans who will want one of the winning models we have come to know and love over the past 15 years and games with PvP in them tend to make more money and the fact its a TES games is not what decides if they will play this game.

2. TES fans who like to explore and do so without getting attcked by players because thats not in their game they play now.

3. MMO fans who are TES fans as well, who will nit pick this game to death to try and make it fit their vision.

So what MMO model that will make them the most money and let the people from box 2 still live in the same pool as everyone else and not hate eachother? Because no MMO that wants to make it, plans on making money just from current MMO fans, they hope to make new MMO fans. 4 Maps, 1 for PvP, 1 for each faction is one that can make group 1 and 2 very happy. Group 3 will never be happy, so why try? There is always going to be people from group 3 upset no matter what way ya do it.

As suggested in this thread having one open world with PvP everywhere, one open world where you can chose to flag PvP (lots of jurks know how to force you to flag so they can kill you, just stand next to you killing NPCs and one AE spell and you get to kill them, one of many ways to do that) all this would make most players from pool 2 not happy as a new fan and that would make this game a fail. IMO ESO did the right model for the game. We from pool 3 here on this forum are only one third of the target but we think we should be 80% of what decides what goes where. Look at the poll we win!!!!! LOL Noooo sorry. 

I think they hit the nail on the head for this game with what model they picked and its one on many a MMO forum we PvP fans have been asking for, over and over again. Every new 2 faction game that comes out, lots of us keep saying... "Needs a 3rd faction. Pls look back to DAoC they did it right!!!" I think this will pull lots of people from pool 1 as well.

If they try and follow the 3rd pool, we will have a new game every week!!!! 

4. DAoC fans who will take things out of context to try and defend their little nugget of happiness.

5. Suckers who blindly flock to the next big MMO and throw money at it until they've filled the hole in their meaningless lives.

Seriously, some of you're descriptions sound about as retarded as 4 & 5.  TES fans do not want the game designed to our vision but we want ESO to be in TES' vision.  I am only speaking my mind about what defines TES for me.

What does this have to do with my right to make a judgement on ESO with the information we have so far?

Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans.

 No, they did not.

Picking the DaoC model is not going to net you the most money or fans. DaoC was the 4th most popular MMO of its time behind EQ1, UO and SWG.

UO and SWG had OPEN WORLDS, EQ1 had OPEN FACTIONS. DaoC was so UNPOPULAR with its PvP that how many games copied its closed factions area build? Well? HOW MANY? Where are the millions of players that long for segregation? There arent.

Yeah...they chose to make TESO this way because they DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT ANY OTHER WAY...not even Raph Koster and his BS ideas were so limited that he made every MMO he worked on the SAME WAY. Just what we need, another MMO made by people that cant come up with new ideas right...

The model that is going to net you the most money and fans is to make the game as close to the IP as possible with an MMO...open world, open factions and the ability to PvP anywhere...no, NO I DID NOT SAY FFA PVP. A war is only a war if it can be on your front doorstep, not in some magical neverland behind an invisible wall.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Monstre0auS

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 46

3/12/13 9:24:49 AM#329

I was going to diatribe about simplicity and people either being able to see a valid argument, or their inability to accept it but I'll not engage complicity in mud-flinging. Instead I'll say this.

I am a fan of multi-coloured replies, as it makes it easy to break down arguments and whether or not the response is related to it. If anyone bashes on this style, they'll have me to deal with!

As for colours tasting like rainbows, Skittles b***h... (Jokes )

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4089

3/12/13 9:26:25 AM#330
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
 

Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans.

 No, they did not.

Picking the DaoC model is not going to net you the most money or fans. DaoC was the 4th most popular MMO of its time behind EQ1, UO and SWG.

UO and SWG had OPEN WORLDS, EQ1 had OPEN FACTIONS. DaoC was so UNPOPULAR with its PvP that how many games copied its closed factions area build? Well? HOW MANY? Where are the millions of players that long for segregation? There arent.

Yeah...they chose to make TESO this way because they DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT ANY OTHER WAY...not even Raph Koster and his BS ideas were so limited that he made every MMO he worked on the SAME WAY. Just what we need, another MMO made by people that cant come up with new ideas right...

The model that is going to net you the most money and fans is to make the game as close to the IP as possible with an MMO...open world, open factions and the ability to PvP anywhere...no, NO I DID NOT SAY FFA PVP. A war is only a war if it can be on your front doorstep, not in some magical neverland behind an invisible wall.

Sure... I will take 4th and wont argue that even if I dont agree. How many SWG open world MMOs have been made? How many WoW and EQ1 clones have we had? Many and many. How many have copied the DAoC model? None, not even Warhammer that was to be DAoC2 did. Every PvP game thats come out has been compaired to DAoC and when failed its been said many a time on every MMO forum, "Should have taken one for DAoC pages." Its time, its due time someone said, you know... there is lots of DAoC fans. Let give them what they have been asking for. There are lots of us =-) CU is not doing it. Its just a battleground and not a real MMO. This TES fan, that is also a DAoC fan and many like me will be very happy!!!!! 4th best is a good place to be in this market over filled with the other models. Right now... no one is doing the DAoC thing, not even DAoC as its not been updated sinse like 2003.

  Monstre0auS

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 46

3/12/13 9:47:12 AM#331
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Do you not see they have 3 sets of fans to deal with...

1. MMO fans who will want one of the winning models we have come to know and love over the past 15 years and games with PvP in them tend to make more money and the fact its a TES games is not what decides if they will play this game.

2. TES fans who like to explore and do so without getting attcked by players because thats not in their game they play now.

3. MMO fans who are TES fans as well, who will nit pick this game to death to try and make it fit their vision.

So what MMO model that will make them the most money and let the people from box 2 still live in the same pool as everyone else and not hate eachother? Because no MMO that wants to make it, plans on making money just from current MMO fans, they hope to make new MMO fans. 4 Maps, 1 for PvP, 1 for each faction is one that can make group 1 and 2 very happy. Group 3 will never be happy, so why try? There is always going to be people from group 3 upset no matter what way ya do it.

As suggested in this thread having one open world with PvP everywhere, one open world where you can chose to flag PvP (lots of jurks know how to force you to flag so they can kill you, just stand next to you killing NPCs and one AE spell and you get to kill them, one of many ways to do that) all this would make most players from pool 2 not happy as a new fan and that would make this game a fail. IMO ESO did the right model for the game. We from pool 3 here on this forum are only one third of the target but we think we should be 80% of what decides what goes where. Look at the poll we win!!!!! LOL Noooo sorry. 

I think they hit the nail on the head for this game with what model they picked and its one on many a MMO forum we PvP fans have been asking for, over and over again. Every new 2 faction game that comes out, lots of us keep saying... "Needs a 3rd faction. Pls look back to DAoC they did it right!!!" I think this will pull lots of people from pool 1 as well.

If they try and follow the 3rd pool, we will have a new game every week!!!! 

4. DAoC fans who will take things out of context to try and defend their little nugget of happiness.

5. Suckers who blindly flock to the next big MMO and throw money at it until they've filled the hole in their meaningless lives.

Seriously, some of you're descriptions sound about as retarded as 4 & 5.  TES fans do not want the game designed to our vision but we want ESO to be in TES' vision.  I am only speaking my mind about what defines TES for me.

What does this have to do with my right to make a judgement on ESO with the information we have so far?

Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans.

 No, they did not.

Picking the DaoC model is not going to net you the most money or fans. DaoC was the 4th most popular MMO of its time behind EQ1, UO and SWG.

UO and SWG had OPEN WORLDS, EQ1 had OPEN FACTIONS. DaoC was so UNPOPULAR with its PvP that how many games copied its closed factions area build? Well? HOW MANY? Where are the millions of players that long for segregation? There arent.

Yeah...they chose to make TESO this way because they DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT ANY OTHER WAY...not even Raph Koster and his BS ideas were so limited that he made every MMO he worked on the SAME WAY. Just what we need, another MMO made by people that cant come up with new ideas right...

The model that is going to net you the most money and fans is to make the game as close to the IP as possible with an MMO...open world, open factions and the ability to PvP anywhere...no, NO I DID NOT SAY FFA PVP. A war is only a war if it can be on your front doorstep, not in some magical neverland behind an invisible wall.

Red: Really? I had this argument with you in another post. A war does not have to be on your front doorstep in order for it to exist. Australia in WWI never had threat of invasion, yet we went to war. In WWII, Australia was bombed in Darwin (the NORTHERN MOST tip of Australia, closest to our neighbours) long after we were already in Europe fighting. If a war is at your front doorstep, it doesn't mean it wasn't being waged beforehand, in some magical neverland behind an invisible wall (which describes censorship and properganda throughtout wars in history btw), it just means your now seriously close to losing that war.

Blue: Give the dev team at Zenimax some credit. If they truly didn't know any other way to make it other than to clone DAoC, then why didn't they simply chose to clone another game more successful? As you've so clearly demonstrated, DAoC was actually the 4th most popular title from that era to chose from.

They made a design decision that would fit in with lore that was sort of already pre-established (atleast that's the jist of what I've read from media and other forums), you know, like a plausability of history? If that history stated that Russians couldn't freely walk through Germany during WWII, then why would we expect the Altmer to be waltzing unaccosted through Skyrim?

The answer is, because that's what you want the lore to be, and that my friend is a very subjective interprepation of TES history.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4089

3/12/13 10:26:41 AM#332
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
 

Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans.

 No, they did not.

Picking the DaoC model is not going to net you the most money or fans. DaoC was the 4th most popular MMO of its time behind EQ1, UO and SWG.

UO and SWG had OPEN WORLDS, EQ1 had OPEN FACTIONS. DaoC was so UNPOPULAR with its PvP that how many games copied its closed factions area build? Well? HOW MANY? Where are the millions of players that long for segregation? There arent.

Yeah...they chose to make TESO this way because they DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT ANY OTHER WAY...not even Raph Koster and his BS ideas were so limited that he made every MMO he worked on the SAME WAY. Just what we need, another MMO made by people that cant come up with new ideas right...

The model that is going to net you the most money and fans is to make the game as close to the IP as possible with an MMO...open world, open factions and the ability to PvP anywhere...no, NO I DID NOT SAY FFA PVP. A war is only a war if it can be on your front doorstep, not in some magical neverland behind an invisible wall.

Sure... I will take 4th and wont argue that even if I dont agree. How many SWG open world MMOs have been made? How many WoW and EQ1 clones have we had? Many and many. How many have copied the DAoC model? None, not even Warhammer that was to be DAoC2 did. Every PvP game thats come out has been compaired to DAoC and when failed its been said many a time on every MMO forum, "Should have taken one for DAoC pages." Its time, its due time someone said, you know... there is lots of DAoC fans. Let give them what they have been asking for. There are lots of us =-) CU is not doing it. Its just a battleground and not a real MMO. This TES fan, that is also a DAoC fan and many like me will be very happy!!!!! 4th best is a good place to be in this market over filled with the other models. Right now... no one is doing the DAoC thing, not even DAoC as its not been updated sinse like 2003.

P.S. How would you like it? Like WoW where factions can just walk into another factions area to do nothing more then look around? In games like that, how often did people really do that? Once in a blue moon and that poor lone guy trying to pop a map gets killed by 15 players because he was alone? Thats ground breaking content, map popping. Have a few areas where both factions quest side by side? How well would that fit lore? I hate you and want to kill you, but sinse you are here, can you help me kill this monseter? As I have said before, that just seems to water down the content and story.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/12/13 10:33:46 AM#333
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

P.S. How would you like it? Like WoW where factions can just walk into another factions area to do nothing more then look around? In games like that, how often did people really do that? Once in a blue moon and that poor lone guy trying to pop a map gets killed by 15 players because he was alone? Thats ground breaking content, map popping. Have a few areas where both factions quest side by side? How well would that fit lore? I hate you and want to kill you, but sinse you are here, can you help me kill this monseter? As I have said before, that just seems to water down the content and story.

What if you were not part of a faction till you CHOSE to be part of one. And when you DID choose to be part of one then hostile factions would not let you into their region. and until you CHOOSE to join a faction you could explore the world as you see fit and quest where you see fit. You could even flag certain quests as giving a faction bonus so that you wouldn't do quests for other factions.

Wouldn't that be more realistic, fit the lore better and be more in line with a TES game?

Of course none of that is possible because their design has remove any CHOICE or at least reduced it to the dumbest level. Might as well have an 'I win' button for the level on intelligence they seem to have their target audiance inhabiting.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4089

3/12/13 11:08:40 AM#334
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

P.S. How would you like it? Like WoW where factions can just walk into another factions area to do nothing more then look around? In games like that, how often did people really do that? Once in a blue moon and that poor lone guy trying to pop a map gets killed by 15 players because he was alone? Thats ground breaking content, map popping. Have a few areas where both factions quest side by side? How well would that fit lore? I hate you and want to kill you, but sinse you are here, can you help me kill this monseter? As I have said before, that just seems to water down the content and story.

What if you were not part of a faction till you CHOSE to be part of one. And when you DID choose to be part of one then hostile factions would not let you into their region. and until you CHOOSE to join a faction you could explore the world as you see fit and quest where you see fit. You could even flag certain quests as giving a faction bonus so that you wouldn't do quests for other factions.

Wouldn't that be more realistic, fit the lore better and be more in line with a TES game?

Of course none of that is possible because their design has remove any CHOICE or at least reduced it to the dumbest level. Might as well have an 'I win' button for the level on intelligence they seem to have their target audiance inhabiting.

So we are back to ripping up the world the ESO devs have made. Back tracking in development with a game thats 6 years in the works? Cool idea but as I said in my last post, been done, been done lots. Know what has not been done? DAoC model. We have had many a game do what you are asking for, we had many a WoW, EQ1, SWG clones. On and on but DAoC fans have not had any MMO follow what made DAoC work so well. As I said, not even Warhammer did. They had to pick a model, being unique over the past 10 years has failed more times then not, other then EVE. So they picked one and this is what we have. About time.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

3/12/13 11:20:04 AM#335
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

My stand is simple, I agree with the direction of ESO. I will not stand by as haters go on and on and make a poop storm that has any chance to break this game. Come up with a good idea I would be glad to say so but at this point there has been none.

I agree, your stand IS simple;

Simple in understanding. Simple in execution. Simple in reasoning.

As simple as thinking that any change to what YOU want will 'break' the game.

Yes - I would characterise your point of view as 'simple'.

Quite so...

... and perhaps in future you could refrain from giving everyone a multicoloured dayglow headache with your 'classy' posts.

It draws attention to be sure - which is presumably what you want them to do - but it does smack of style over substance...

... in a BIG way...

I picture you with an English accent, pipe in hand with a red smoking jacket. Sitting in front a great many leather-bound books with long, complicated titles, all of which you tell people you've read cover to cover and, honestly, have to question the author's understanding of the topic. Poo-pooing and tut-tuting those without the intellectual insight to simply agree with your point of view, and insulting their pathetic attempts at 'proper' discourse.

Ah yes, those silly peons. Their ideas have no basis in any logic that you prescribe to, and they refuse to acquiesce to your genius. You must call them simple, compare their intellects to less than that of a village idiot, and disdain them for their lack of imagination. They won't know how truly stupid they are until someone tells them, and that burden may very well have to fall on your shoulders, you brilliant, insightful beast.

Tip of the cap, old chum.

But seriously, you can have a discussion here and not call people stupid for their ideas and opinions. Calling someone out for organinzing their post with color coding is beneath you.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

3/13/13 3:50:59 AM#336
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by sapphen

I like this thread because it calls ESO out for what it is.  I don't care what the developers are trying to feed us, they never intended to make a TES MMO (originally tab targeting, no proper FPV,  no faction choice and limited exploration is not TES).  They wanted to make money by creating a generic MMO with DAoC RvR in a TES skin.

You know what else is not TES?

Multiplayer.

Just because it's going to be a MMO doesn't mean they have to forfeit important elements from the series.

Once you start mucking about with some of the basics (like going from single player to massively-multiplyer,) everything else has to at least be open for evaluation.  Otherwise you risk jamming things that don't work well together into the same package, and ending up with shit.  (Like Morrowind's combat.  Blech.)

I don't like some of the decisions they made either, but I understand why they were made.  BethSoft built a studio around a couple of DAOC guys to make an MMO, and the guys they hired went to what they knew instead of trying to muck about with systems they weren't familiar with.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

3/13/13 4:08:46 AM#337
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

P.S. How would you like it? Like WoW where factions can just walk into another factions area to do nothing more then look around? In games like that, how often did people really do that? Once in a blue moon and that poor lone guy trying to pop a map gets killed by 15 players because he was alone? Thats ground breaking content, map popping. Have a few areas where both factions quest side by side? How well would that fit lore? I hate you and want to kill you, but sinse you are here, can you help me kill this monseter? As I have said before, that just seems to water down the content and story.

What if you were not part of a faction till you CHOSE to be part of one. And when you DID choose to be part of one then hostile factions would not let you into their region. and until you CHOOSE to join a faction you could explore the world as you see fit and quest where you see fit. You could even flag certain quests as giving a faction bonus so that you wouldn't do quests for other factions.

Wouldn't that be more realistic, fit the lore better and be more in line with a TES game?

Not really.  There's a big war going on, after all, and the feudal lords of comparable periods weren't at all shy about conscription or selective racism.  Even if this is ES rather than Medieval Earth, there's enough cultural echo to justify going either way on that.

As for TES games:  Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all have the common starting ground of "you're a prisoner, roped into a mythic role you never chose."  Where you go from there is up to you; you could ignore it entirely if you wanted, just like you can ignore the faction wars.  But you couldn't avoid being Nerevarine, or Dragonborn, or the face from Septim's dreams, and if you went any place where that mattered, you were reminded of that role.

Of course none of that is possible because their design has remove any CHOICE or at least reduced it to the dumbest level. Might as well have an 'I win' button for the level on intelligence they seem to have their target audiance inhabiting.

The petulance of that remark doesn't exactly speak against that view.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/13/13 6:02:34 AM#338
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

 

 

 

My stand is simple, I agree with the direction of ESO. I will not stand by as haters go on and on and make a poop storm that has any chance to break this game. Come up with a good idea I would be glad to say so but at this point there has been none.

I agree, your stand IS simple;

Simple in understanding. Simple in execution. Simple in reasoning.

As simple as thinking that any change to what YOU want will 'break' the game.

Yes - I would characterise your point of view as 'simple'.

Quite so...

... and perhaps in future you could refrain from giving everyone a multicoloured dayglow headache with your 'classy' posts.

It draws attention to be sure - which is presumably what you want them to do - but it does smack of style over substance...

... in a BIG way...

If you dont get each color was in response to what I highlighted in your reply there is no hope for you. If my support of the game shows how simple minded I am, then so must all the devs making ESO. I can live with that, what do you do for a living? They do more creative projects in a day then most do in a month. 

Of course I got that - but you didn't understand my response - I never criticised you answering each point in turn - I criticised how you did it.

A multicoloured melange which is more successful at inducing a headache than clear communication.

... and I don't discuss what I do for a living with just anyone...

My wife is a developer, and something of a gamer, so I don't need nebulous unspecific comments on what they do, I know enough to speak with at least some confidence on the generalities.

It is what gives me the ability to know the difference between an element of a games development made because of strategic choice, and that which is a capability limitation which must be worked to or around.

There is a great deal of crapola posted on these forums by people who don't know their ass from their elbows as far as what developers can do, and what they are told to do because a games company has made a design choice.

Not surprisingly, most of this 'confusion' seems to be in favour of the interests of the person posting, rather than the facts.

In many cases, developers try to achieve the goals they are set by management, who, as the endless conversations I hear attest to (and we have had enough of them around the dinner table from more than one company...) complain endlessly about the lack of understanding of the technical stuff by the very same.

Only the very best companies and teams have anything like the level of reiterative and cooperative working regimes which allow understanding 'in the round' on every related part of a project. It is human nature to turtle and 'stick to your bit' - especially amongst dev's , who are in many cases not the gregarious and extrovert type...

In short - many of the things the 'mob' think are design limitations there is no way to change, or no way to do, or now way to resolve, are nothing of the kind - they were choices made at conception or interim strategic meetings, and as such, CAN BE CHANGED.

Sure - some issues can't be changed easily due to the game having been through so many builds that there is too much interelated coding. But it is only rarely that it cannot be done - it is far more common that it is judged to be too expensive or inconvenient.

  Neherun

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/07
Posts: 252

3/13/13 6:18:24 AM#339

So, we have over ten pages of arguing about a spin-off game? (yes its a god damn spin-off.) How about we wait and actually see what it is like before actually arguing about the game? Not to mention half of the posts are obviously from people who have read shit about the game.

 

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/13/13 6:26:07 AM#340
Originally posted by Neherun

So, we have over ten pages of arguing about a spin-off game? (yes its a god damn spin-off.) How about we wait and actually see what it is like before actually arguing about the game? Not to mention half of the posts are obviously from people who have read shit about the game.

 

Why do we need to wait for the game to argue about facts already established by Zenimax?

At least you aren't amongst the critics who think it's pointless talking about it because it won't change anything as it's already too late!

You don't want to read ten pages, then read something else...

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