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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Hypocrisy of faction pride in TESO

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124 posts found
  zomard100

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/16/11
Posts: 232

2/25/13 2:42:09 PM#21
Guys you are like desease. In wow you cry because of high level gankers, here you cry because you have some restricted area. I bet in my life that same OP would post thread against TESO even if there is no restriction.  90% of  mmorpg forum comunity  was crying  how hard is to survive in WarZ and now you cry because of oposite. Just be happy to level in peace, pvp  is not good for most of you
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15331

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/25/13 3:21:09 PM#22
Originally posted by azarhal
Originally posted by PyrateLV

Its funny how Zenimax keep mentioning this "Faction Pride" when talking about their forced 3 faction system, then out of the other side of their mouth they then talk about rolling Alts for "replayability" reasons and to be able to see the entire gameworld.

How does one have pride in their faction if they are also rolling alts on the opposing factions?

Faction Pride doesn't dissapear just because you are rolling alts.

  • Faction Pride = My favorite Faction (main character is here)
  • Replayability  = Making a new character to see new things I haven't seen yet.

People make characters in both factions in SWTOR all the time. A simple look at the general chat is all that is needed to see that despite having alts, players clearly prefer one faction over the other. That is what Faction Pride is all about. In fact, rolling alts to see the "other sides" can increase your Faction Pride (or make you switch to the dark side *cough*).

Good points here, creating alts has nothing to do with realm pride what so ever. In the case Pyrate is citing above this holds especially true. As the purpose of the Alt would be for PVE content "replayability".

In the end faction pride is up to the player, they choose which side to support, usually based on guild decisions or where friends are. This isn't rocket science..

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3734

2/25/13 3:56:48 PM#23
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Nothing to do be achievments or completionists.

TES games are based on Freedom.

Freedom to explore, freedon to choose, freedom to engage.

Locked factions removes one of the founding tennents of a TES game.

 

You don't need to look any futher or deeper as to why people don't like it so please stop trying so hard.

It's really only people like you who believe themselves to be the ultimate authority on the "founding tennents"  that are having these hissy fits.

Funny thing is I've played them all since TES: Arena and I don't remember hearing about these absolute requirements on what you say it must be.

So please give your fundamentalist ideas a rest.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3734

2/25/13 4:02:21 PM#24
Originally posted by versulas
Originally posted by Iselin

Funny thing... I've played WOW on and off for 9 years. There are many large portions of the game world and some dungeons and raids I haven't seen....nor do I particularly want to. I guess this completionist achievement is way down my list of priorities.

You can't have played WoW for 9 years... It hasn't been out that long (not even if you tried the beta). Also, you telling me you've played it for all that time and never once felt an urge to at least see what all the zones looked like? That was the first thing I did. Even when Cata came out, I had to go back and look at what changed.

I know everyone has their own unique style of playing, but failing to even have a grasp on the game world sounds like maybe you shouldn't be playing an mmorpg. There are those facebook browser games that'll do the same thing for you... 

 

OT, I understand the OP's frustrations... Sure DAoC had the frontier system and GW2 ran with it, but those weren't sandbox games which, for the longest time, is what people thought TESO was. Now, as more information filters out, people are slowly beginning to understand that that just isn't the case. For some it's good, some bad, either way, it's a game that doesn't allow you to seamlessly play all content and covers up that fact with buzz words like 'replayability.'

November 2004 so 8 years, 3 months... I stand corrected. Why doesn't it surprise me that a TES fundamentalist would be picky about exact dates and would have exclusive opinions about what type of person should or shouldn't play MMOs?

Some of you guys are really too much lol. Game hasn't released yet and you're already giving its community a bad name for being a bunch of malcontented zealots.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6501

"I fight so you don't have to."

2/25/13 4:05:54 PM#25
Originally posted by azarhal
Originally posted by PyrateLV

Its funny how Zenimax keep mentioning this "Faction Pride" when talking about their forced 3 faction system, then out of the other side of their mouth they then talk about rolling Alts for "replayability" reasons and to be able to see the entire gameworld.

How does one have pride in their faction if they are also rolling alts on the opposing factions?

Faction Pride doesn't dissapear just because you are rolling alts.

  • Faction Pride = My favorite Faction (main character is here)
  • Replayability  = Making a new character to see new things I haven't seen yet.

People make characters in both factions in SWTOR all the time. A simple look at the general chat is all that is needed to see that despite having alts, players clearly prefer one faction over the other. That is what Faction Pride is all about. In fact, rolling alts to see the "other sides" can increase your Faction Pride (or make you switch to the dark side *cough*).

I dont think you know what the word pride means. It would be like a big soccer fan of one team having pride in his team and would never just start cheering out of think air for another team.

OP is right. This faction pride excuse is just nonsense so that the devs can spend less resources designing the zones for multifaction activity. This, like all triple A MMOs, are first and foremost a money grab. Meaning maximizing profits.

So do the right thing and, if you believe this faction lock is truly a bad thing, do not buy this game. It is about time for us, who love an IP and hate to see it trashed by MMOs (SW:TOR, WAR, AoC etc) which takes a piss on it, take a stand and stop buying their crap.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6501

"I fight so you don't have to."

2/25/13 4:08:56 PM#26
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by versulas
Originally posted by Iselin

Funny thing... I've played WOW on and off for 9 years. There are many large portions of the game world and some dungeons and raids I haven't seen....nor do I particularly want to. I guess this completionist achievement is way down my list of priorities.

You can't have played WoW for 9 years... It hasn't been out that long (not even if you tried the beta). Also, you telling me you've played it for all that time and never once felt an urge to at least see what all the zones looked like? That was the first thing I did. Even when Cata came out, I had to go back and look at what changed.

I know everyone has their own unique style of playing, but failing to even have a grasp on the game world sounds like maybe you shouldn't be playing an mmorpg. There are those facebook browser games that'll do the same thing for you... 

 

OT, I understand the OP's frustrations... Sure DAoC had the frontier system and GW2 ran with it, but those weren't sandbox games which, for the longest time, is what people thought TESO was. Now, as more information filters out, people are slowly beginning to understand that that just isn't the case. For some it's good, some bad, either way, it's a game that doesn't allow you to seamlessly play all content and covers up that fact with buzz words like 'replayability.'

November 2004 so 8 years, 3 months... I stand corrected. Why doesn't it surprise me that a TES fundamentalist would be picky about exact dates and would have exclusive opinions about what type of person should or shouldn't play MMOs?

Some of you guys are really too much lol. Game hasn't released yet and you're already giving its community a bad name for being a bunch of malcontented zealots.

Have you played the Elder Scrols series? If not, they are based, fundamentally so, on an open world where you can go anywhere you want and join and leave whatever faction you want. 

So this is not about zealots, this is about them just scrapping one of the fundamental concepts of the Elder Scrolls series.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2659

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/25/13 4:09:27 PM#27

Ohh look its another faction lock thread.

 

 

 

 

Are the other 74,9213 threads not enough?

 

 

 

 

 

Suffice it to say, you are wrong and anyone who says this will fail based on their own opinion is dilluding themselves.  theres alot of folks interested in this game and the hate will not stop it.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  walltar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 60

2/25/13 4:14:34 PM#28
Originally posted by Yamota

OP is right. This faction pride excuse is just nonsense so that the devs can spend less resources designing the zones for multifaction activity.

Don't you think, that if they made everything accessible by everyone then they would have a lot less work? They could make just 1/3 of content and call it a finished product ... L don't think that they coosen easy way.

 

But i must agree with one point ... if you dont like this game, MMOs, themeparks, and/or any idea of MP TES then don't buy this game. AND STOP BITCHING ABOUT IT! Thanks.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3734

2/25/13 4:18:58 PM#29
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by versulas
Originally posted by Iselin

Funny thing... I've played WOW on and off for 9 years. There are many large portions of the game world and some dungeons and raids I haven't seen....nor do I particularly want to. I guess this completionist achievement is way down my list of priorities.

You can't have played WoW for 9 years... It hasn't been out that long (not even if you tried the beta). Also, you telling me you've played it for all that time and never once felt an urge to at least see what all the zones looked like? That was the first thing I did. Even when Cata came out, I had to go back and look at what changed.

I know everyone has their own unique style of playing, but failing to even have a grasp on the game world sounds like maybe you shouldn't be playing an mmorpg. There are those facebook browser games that'll do the same thing for you... 

 

OT, I understand the OP's frustrations... Sure DAoC had the frontier system and GW2 ran with it, but those weren't sandbox games which, for the longest time, is what people thought TESO was. Now, as more information filters out, people are slowly beginning to understand that that just isn't the case. For some it's good, some bad, either way, it's a game that doesn't allow you to seamlessly play all content and covers up that fact with buzz words like 'replayability.'

November 2004 so 8 years, 3 months... I stand corrected. Why doesn't it surprise me that a TES fundamentalist would be picky about exact dates and would have exclusive opinions about what type of person should or shouldn't play MMOs?

Some of you guys are really too much lol. Game hasn't released yet and you're already giving its community a bad name for being a bunch of malcontented zealots.

Have you played the Elder Scrols series? If not, they are based, fundamentally so, on an open world where you can go anywhere you want and join and leave whatever faction you want. 

So this is not about zealots, this is about them just scrapping one of the fundamental concepts of the Elder Scrolls series.

I have played every single one of them as I already said elsewhere. But I don't have any sandbox/themepark biases unlike some here. There is indeed zealotry here with a bunch of self-declared purists butthurt that the TES name is being used in a way they consider heretical.

All I'm really seeing here--especially if you know the names of the posters and what they post over at "the pub" in sandbox discussions--is a replaying of the same old "I know what a real MMO is and you don't" bullshit we see there on a daily basis.

I take a holistic view when it comes to MMOs: the whole package either works for me and I play it, or it doesn't and I spend my time elsewhere. I like this fantasy world Bethesda created and I like playing in it. I also enjoyed the DAoC RvR system and played it a lot. These two things make me interested in TESO. But unlike some here, I don't have absolute requirements based on how the single player games play. I have an open mind and will make up my own mind once it releases

As for the proposed boycott you posted above... good. I'm all for it. If you guys hate it, go away. 

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6501

"I fight so you don't have to."

2/25/13 5:10:56 PM#30

I doubt you played Elder Scrolls and if you did it seems to have deluded you as to why the series was so great. I bet you played them like a Dragon Age game. But that is fine, nothing prevents you from playing a sandbox like a linear quest hub. That is why it is so great. 

But I digress. And no, we wont be going anywhere because you see this is not Elder Scrolls Online forums. This is where you come and voice your opinions openly without getting banned for it. I know it burns you guys to see people be able to do that but that is what independent forums are for.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2828

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

2/25/13 5:18:34 PM#31

I'm not one really big on Free for All PvP, but it really feels like TESO would do so much better with it. Just have a crime system like in game that really elevators the character with harsh penalties when they are caught or taken down that make the act of running around killing people penalized. if done right it can help limit the 'griefing' aspect, and perhaps making 'permitted' pvp being mostly guild verse guild conflicts that could really make things interesting and more 'civil'. 

 

I really dislike the notion they feel factions are needed in the game, its harder sure to have Open World PvP but there are ways to make it work if you do it correctly to make it possible but also penalized enough that I player won't want to engage in it or if they are doing it, be very hesitant on how often they do it or if 'killing' should be done instead of perhaps demanding ransome from the player threatened.

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 247

2/25/13 6:10:22 PM#32
Originally posted by Yamota

I doubt you played Elder Scrolls and if you did it seems to have deluded you as to why the series was so great. I bet you played them like a Dragon Age game. But that is fine, nothing prevents you from playing a sandbox like a linear quest hub. That is why it is so great. 

But I digress. And no, we wont be going anywhere because you see this is not Elder Scrolls Online forums. This is where you come and voice your opinions openly without getting banned for it. I know it burns you guys to see people be able to do that but that is what independent forums are for.

Exactly... this the The Elder Scrolls Online forums. Not the "The Elder Scrolls single player" forums... and on TESO there is a faction lock. Which is awesome.

So quit treating teso as a single player game. TESO has different rules because its a different game.

Is it so hard to understand?

Again - faction lock is great - it just doesnt seem like it to people who didnt play DAoC - which all people should have because as an mmo its better than anything you have out there till today.

(and yes before you ask, yes I still play DAoC)

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

 
OP  2/25/13 6:19:13 PM#33
Originally posted by azarhal
Originally posted by PyrateLV

Its funny how Zenimax keep mentioning this "Faction Pride" when talking about their forced 3 faction system, then out of the other side of their mouth they then talk about rolling Alts for "replayability" reasons and to be able to see the entire gameworld.

How does one have pride in their faction if they are also rolling alts on the opposing factions?

Faction Pride doesn't dissapear just because you are rolling alts.

  • Faction Pride = My favorite Faction (main character is here)
  • Replayability  = Making a new character to see new things I haven't seen yet.

People make characters in both factions in SWTOR all the time. A simple look at the general chat is all that is needed to see that despite having alts, players clearly prefer one faction over the other. That is what Faction Pride is all about. In fact, rolling alts to see the "other sides" can increase your Faction Pride (or make you switch to the dark side *cough*).

And yet, if faction pride was about the players choice, and rolling alts had nothing to do about this, why do they feel they must force mechanics on us to enhance this pride?  Should be not have the choice of how much pride we want?  Should we not be able to feel a sense of pride for our factions cause while still being able to explore the rest of the world?

The fact remains, they are using this faction pride excuse as a way to defer attention away from the real reason they went with this method, it was easier to produce and was the way they could make a PvP focused game that would not drive off all the PvE'ers that did not want to PvP. Yet what really happened is they offended the PvPers that think open world PvP is a must in a PvP game, and they offended the PvEers by locking them out of 2/3 of the game on a single character(and then had the gull to pretty much tell them it's for their own good)

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

2/25/13 7:15:40 PM#34
Originally posted by azzamasin

Ohh look its another faction lock thread.

 

So any thread dealing with TESO is "look another faction lock thread?".  It always comes up, deal with it if you are a hardened fan.

 

It's a shitty system, and people ARE going to talk about it from now til beyond release .. !! :P

 

Get used to it now.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1004

2/25/13 8:21:07 PM#35
Originally posted by walltar
Originally posted by Yamota

OP is right. This faction pride excuse is just nonsense so that the devs can spend less resources designing the zones for multifaction activity.

Don't you think, that if they made everything accessible by everyone then they would have a lot less work? They could make just 1/3 of content and call it a finished product ... L don't think that they coosen easy way.

Not necessarily - they might need to spend less resources in mapmaking and 3D models design but they will probably spend no less on contents design, more resources on faction/class balancing and even more resources and moderation/exploit fixes and pervention.

 

So it seems their design decisions are aiming for a more "fire-and-forget" product rather than a continuous development product ala swtor style - just make the money and than squeeze the game for everything it is worth.

 

That's the feeling I got from it anyways.

  Giffen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/28/04
Posts: 213

2/25/13 9:03:25 PM#36

I sure hope if they are only using a single server technology that they only allow you to choose one faction PER ACCOUNT.  If they are using multiple servers then one faction PER SERVER.  Just like DAOC.

 

Without this, people will make alts in all three realms and there will be no such thing as realm pride as once one side get's the upper hand everyone will log in their characters in that realm to enjoy the advantage.  It's what happened in DAOC after they had to cluster the servers (which allowed a person to have multiple realm characters per cluster).

 

Without these mechanisms they might as well not even give lip service to realm/faction pride.

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2507

2/25/13 10:17:03 PM#37

Where will be the freedom of The Elder Scroll games which are so famous for i wonder?

This game is clearly not made by core team of bethesda.

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  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2659

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/25/13 10:23:16 PM#38
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by azzamasin

Ohh look its another faction lock thread.

 

So any thread dealing with TESO is "look another faction lock thread?".  It always comes up, deal with it if you are a hardened fan.

 

It's a shitty system, and people ARE going to talk about it from now til beyond release .. !! :P

 

Get used to it now.

Quit saying its a shity system when history proves it isnt and stop using generalisations as if its fact because it is your opinion.  My opinion says it isn't even though I have proof and all you have is opinions.

 

IT MAY BE FOR YOU BUT QUIT SAYING IT LIKE IT IS FACT.

 

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2659

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/25/13 10:26:06 PM#39
Originally posted by Giffen

I sure hope if they are only using a single server technology that they only allow you to choose one faction PER ACCOUNT.  If they are using multiple servers then one faction PER SERVER.  Just like DAOC.

 

Without this, people will make alts in all three realms and there will be no such thing as realm pride as once one side get's the upper hand everyone will log in their characters in that realm to enjoy the advantage.  It's what happened in DAOC after they had to cluster the servers (which allowed a person to have multiple realm characters per cluster).

 

Without these mechanisms they might as well not even give lip service to realm/faction pride.

Yea, you get to choose which campaign you are locked into and can not move from it, even though the rest of the PvE world you can.  Just compare it to soemthing like GW2 now that you have guesting (although it is slightly different) but for analogys sake you can use it.  I play on Sanctum of Rall normall, and I can only WvW in SoR.  However I can go play with friends from Sorrow's Furnace any time I want in their PvE zones.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Rukushin

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 45

2/25/13 11:40:37 PM#40
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by Yamota

I doubt you played Elder Scrolls and if you did it seems to have deluded you as to why the series was so great. I bet you played them like a Dragon Age game. But that is fine, nothing prevents you from playing a sandbox like a linear quest hub. That is why it is so great. 

But I digress. And no, we wont be going anywhere because you see this is not Elder Scrolls Online forums. This is where you come and voice your opinions openly without getting banned for it. I know it burns you guys to see people be able to do that but that is what independent forums are for.

Exactly... this the The Elder Scrolls Online forums. Not the "The Elder Scrolls single player" forums... and on TESO there is a faction lock. Which is awesome.

So quit treating teso as a single player game. TESO has different rules because its a different game.

Is it so hard to understand?

Again - faction lock is great - it just doesnt seem like it to people who didnt play DAoC - which all people should have because as an mmo its better than anything you have out there till today.

(and yes before you ask, yes I still play DAoC)

Really? really now? Wow, you are like the epitome of all DAoC fans. If you love DAoC so much than go request a DAoC 2. Don't take another game's name and just slap the name sticker on a DAoC 2.  

Plain and simple, the IP was founded on FREEDOM as was said a billion times before. So when you make the online/mutiplayer version of a game you take thats game's principle and you build your mutiplayer AROUND it. 

Instead these devs are taking DAoC and wrapping TES around it, which is completely wrong.

I am not a fanboy of TES by any means. Most of my gaming has been through MMOs, but I was excited over the sheer size potential of this map. Skyrim IMO was huge and to think that that was only 1/6, if even that, of the whole world of Tamriel was just mind boggling.

I could argue. but plenty of people here are doing that already and no amount of arguing will change any minds.

I simply wanted:

1. Complete open world environment. Go anywhere, be any race, join any faction based on how you felt about them or their ideals.

2. Open world PvP. People should have a sense of fear traveling through the world because anything can happen. You wanna be safe? Ask guildies to group and travel as a pack or hire mercs to be your bodyguards. Hell that even adds more subroles within the game cause higher levels can be paid gold to protect the lowbies.

3. Massive in depth crafting. None of this "Get parts A, B, and C....put together...and done! Item time". No instead it's "Get items 1,2, and 3...make part A. Then another items 1, 2, and 3 to make B. etc etc. Then finally you make the actual Item.

Simply put. You want an immersive game? You want longevity? Well make the game world like the real world. Easiest way to put it. Think to yourself, "If this were to be put in the real world how would it play out?" and then do that in the game world.

You walk out of your house to go somewhere, is there a possibility of being mugged? killed? Sure it happens everyday. Shootings, Rape, Car accidents. Basically it's open world PvP in the real world and this is what i expect in the game world. Even in WoW sure you can be on a PvE server where you cant actually open world gank someone, but when your guild goes to invade Stormwind you will find that people, even being low level and on a PvE carebear server, will engage in the PvP cause they feel safe enough in large numbers, in their home city, with fellow alliance members that they will flag for PvP to be that 1 guy level 40 who had the killing blow on a fully geared level 90. 

When you want to make a table in the real world it's not some instant gratification let me get 2 pieces of wood and 3 nails and poof! I have my table. No, it takes weeks of sanding, cutting, measuring.

Thats how much depth is expected out of games now. It's not about 1+2=3, but more about 1+5-4+6-5....finally after a while =3

I just find it sad that based on what I've read so far TESO has more in common with a FPS, in terms of how much the PvP is being pushed as the central priciple and driving force. 

In contrast, I feel Arche Age is actually capturing the main freedom principle that TESO should be focused on. 

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