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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Help me understand this...

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233 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 10:36:13 AM#141
I can think of 3 mmos that are based on single player prior games, uo, wow & swtor.

One stuck hard to the original formula, the other two made mmos radically different to the single player games.

Which one was the greatest financial disaster in gaming history?
  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/21/13 10:49:09 AM#142
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I can think of 3 mmos that are based on single player prior games, uo, wow & swtor.

One stuck hard to the original formula, the other two made mmos radically different to the single player games.

Which one was the greatest financial disaster in gaming history?

UO stuck to the same basic game design as the ultima series, may be wrrng never really got to try UO but from looking at the crappy youtube stuff then it certainly looks the same.

WOW - Totally changed direction in their game design. Went from a RTS to MMO. Appealed to an entirely new audience and there really was no comparrison at all because the different franchises.

SWTOR You could argue it tried to emulate the story driven KOTOR game but to behonest, if they had done taht it might have been more successful. Problem was, people were expecting KOTORO and didn't get it.

So yes, SWTOR faied because it deviated from the fanbases expectations too much while remaining in pretty much the same genre to try and capture more players, losing their exisiting fanbase and not securing enough from the 'other' category.

So...

Using an IP, remaining in the same genre but changing large portions of gameplay to fit online mode = failure.

Using an IP, keeping the basic structure of the game = Success.

Using an IP, creating a totally new market in a completly unrelated genre = Success.

 

Which is TESO again?

  Bossalinie

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 631

2/21/13 10:59:54 AM#143
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I can think of 3 mmos that are based on single player prior games, uo, wow & swtor.

One stuck hard to the original formula, the other two made mmos radically different to the single player games.

Which one was the greatest financial disaster in gaming history?

UO stuck to the same basic game design as the ultima series, may be wrrng never really got to try UO but from looking at the crappy youtube stuff then it certainly looks the same.

WOW - Totally changed direction in their game design. Went from a RTS to MMO. Appealed to an entirely new audience and there really was no comparrison at all because the different franchises.

SWTOR You could argue it tried to emulate the story driven KOTOR game but to behonest, if they had done taht it might have been more successful. Problem was, people were expecting KOTORO and didn't get it.

So yes, SWTOR faied because it deviated from the fanbases expectations too much while remaining in pretty much the same genre to try and capture more players, losing their exisiting fanbase and not securing enough from the 'other' category.

So...

Using an IP, remaining in the same genre but changing large portions of gameplay to fit online mode = failure.

Using an IP, keeping the basic structure of the game = Success.

Using an IP, creating a totally new market in a completly unrelated genre = Success.

 

Which is TESO again?

The mass complained that SWTOR played TOO much like a single player game and not an MMO. What was the major difference in game play? Remember all the SWTOR is a CORPG threads? The game was frowned up because they stated it was an MMO, but had few MMO elements. Chalk that up to failed because it stuck too much to it's roots.

And isn't WoW a sucess? Did it not change the gameplay...maybe jus ta little bit?

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 11:05:54 AM#144
Really the ultima sprpgs featured full loot pking?
  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/21/13 11:11:59 AM#145
Originally posted by Bossalinie

The mass complained that SWTOR played TOO much like a single player game and not an MMO. What was the major difference in game play? Remember all the SWTOR is a CORPG? The game was frowned up because they stated it was an MMO, but had few MMO elements. Chalk that up to failed because it stuck too much to it's roots.

And isn't WoW a sucess? Did it not change the gameplay...maybe jus ta little bit?

Well personally SWTOR bored me because to creat an alt of the same faction I had to repeat content. That is my argument against TESO. I had no problem with the rest of the game to be honest. PvP was never my thing in it so that never bothered me. Would have liked space conflict done better though.

WOW had 3 RTS games prior to it's release. RTS and MMO are totally different genre's. There is no cross over except lore. You are not alienating anyone from the original genre because pretty much everything with the game is new except the lore.

UO - Similar genre appealing to similar target audience - success.

WOW - Different genre apealing to different target audience - success.

SWTOR - Similar genre appealing to different target audience - Failure (well I think it was ok but most don't)

TESO - Similar genre appealing to different target audience.

The successes occour when you either stick to the genre and appeal to your existing audience or totally change the genre and appeal to a differnt audience. The failures seem to take place when you change things but try to appeal to the previous audience. That is what TES is doing.

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1363

2/21/13 11:12:57 AM#146
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I can think of 3 mmos that are based on single player prior games, uo, wow & swtor.

One stuck hard to the original formula, the other two made mmos radically different to the single player games.

Which one was the greatest financial disaster in gaming history?

UO stuck to the same basic game design as the ultima series, may be wrrng never really got to try UO but from looking at the crappy youtube stuff then it certainly looks the same.

WOW - Totally changed direction in their game design. Went from a RTS to MMO. Appealed to an entirely new audience and there really was no comparrison at all because the different franchises.

SWTOR You could argue it tried to emulate the story driven KOTOR game but to behonest, if they had done taht it might have been more successful. Problem was, people were expecting KOTORO and didn't get it.

So yes, SWTOR faied because it deviated from the fanbases expectations too much while remaining in pretty much the same genre to try and capture more players, losing their exisiting fanbase and not securing enough from the 'other' category.

So...

Using an IP, remaining in the same genre but changing large portions of gameplay to fit online mode = failure.

Using an IP, keeping the basic structure of the game = Success.

Using an IP, creating a totally new market in a completly unrelated genre = Success.

 

Which is TESO again?

What ESO is doing is chaging genres (SPRPG to MMORPG. they are two completely different genres).

I know Bethesda are not making the game but they completely changed the game mechanics for TES: Redguard. That was a linear Tomb Raider style game. Why can't they do something different with ESO?

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/21/13 11:19:19 AM#147
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Really the ultima sprpgs featured full loot pking?

You had pick pocket yes and could loot from mobs but it was single player so er...no other players.

Is that it?

Because that is a feature that is pretty damn similar in core functionality between the SPG and MMO.

Come on, how much of the map was blocked off?

Was class restrictions were added?

Which races were locked to certain regions?

 

You see in an SPG a function like being able to loot a dead opponent  has a natural progression into an MMO. A player is just another dead opponent. Functionality is essentially the same.

But take A function like exploration. In the SPG you could explore the entire map, whatever that map happened to be. The natural progression is you have a bigger map so you have more to explore. Not so in TESo because they have a bigger map but sections of the world are now blocked, not becuase they are not part of the game but because of some artificial design descision.

  Bossalinie

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 631

2/21/13 11:23:05 AM#148
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Bossalinie

The mass complained that SWTOR played TOO much like a single player game and not an MMO. What was the major difference in game play? Remember all the SWTOR is a CORPG? The game was frowned up because they stated it was an MMO, but had few MMO elements. Chalk that up to failed because it stuck too much to it's roots.

And isn't WoW a sucess? Did it not change the gameplay...maybe jus ta little bit?

Well personally SWTOR bored me because to creat an alt of the same faction I had to repeat content. That is my argument against TESO. I had no problem with the rest of the game to be honest. PvP was never my thing in it so that never bothered me. Would have liked space conflict done better though.

WOW had 3 RTS games prior to it's release. RTS and MMO are totally different genre's. There is no cross over except lore. You are not alienating anyone from the original genre because pretty much everything with the game is new except the lore.

UO - Similar genre appealing to similar target audience - success.

WOW - Different genre apealing to different target audience - success.

SWTOR - Similar genre appealing to different target audience - Failure (well I think it was ok but most don't)

TESO - Similar genre appealing to different target audience.

The successes occour when you either stick to the genre and appeal to your existing audience or totally change the genre and appeal to a differnt audience. The failures seem to take place when you change things but try to appeal to the previous audience. That is what TES is doing.

What you are doing is filtering your results to try to prove your point, when in fact, that is nothing like what you stated previously.

  Thandras

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 44

2/21/13 11:24:19 AM#149
Another thread about this.... really?
  Thandras

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 44

2/21/13 11:28:29 AM#150
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by miagisan 

Just like movies, music etc...no game will fit everyone. The amount of whining is unreal when it comes to mmorpgs...its like people expect games to be tailored to their needs and their needs alone. There are games i dont play and wont play for design reasons, but i really dont see the need to hop onto their forums to express my distaste for it. I just dont buy/play it. That simple.

For example...wow is a good pve game, and tons of people play it....but its not for me. I tried it, didnt like it, moved on. 

 Wait, so people dont whine about Music they dont like?!? Star Wars fans didnt cry like little girls on the rag about the new movies being bad?

Anyway...sorry but your point does not apply.

I will however apply a PROPER analogy for you.

A new group is going to take beatles lyrics, set it to death metal, have a K-pop singer sing it but it will only play if you have a plug-n-play flute and play along with it.

So tell me, should beatles fans be happy and content enough to remain silent as they are told by the record company that they are making it for them? Well...yeah, cause that is what is being done with the TES IP.

 

You generalized his statement. He said "He" didn't buy something he didn't like and that "He" didn't whine about it. You took it out of context and inserted your own point of view into his point.

I got his point completely. He meant he didn't get on forums and cry about a game he doesn't like, he just doesn't buy it . He has a hard time grasping why people like yourself and many others who take to the forums to broadcast your angst.

I agree with his view point. You evidently don't. Neither of us is wrong or right. We just don't agree with each other.

I played DAOC. Really enjoyed it. So my opinion is biased. I can however, see why people complain about not being able to explore the entire game world. I mean in "Skyrim" I got to run around the entire world..... oh wait... no I didn't.

Said it before will say it again. Opinions are like assholes. We all have one and they all stink.

 

 

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/21/13 11:31:20 AM#151

That quote about arseholes...not everyones does stink, only those that don't wash think that.

  Thandras

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 44

2/21/13 11:35:08 AM#152
Originally posted by Maelwydd

That quote about arseholes...not everyones does stink, only those that don't wash think that.

It's your lie... tell it how you want too. It's just logical. If feces comes out of it... it's gonna stink. No matter how much you wash. Only a diluted person or someone with a personality disorder would think otherwise :)

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 11:36:43 AM#153
"True tes fans"* don't need to poop


* swg/eq/DF fans
  Thandras

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 44

2/21/13 11:37:24 AM#154
Originally posted by ShakyMo
"True tes fans"* don't need to poop


* swg/eq/DF fans

lol, okay... I surrender... no debating that logic

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/21/13 11:39:16 AM#155
You still think the quote/reply is about poop...sad sad people.
  Thandras

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 44

2/21/13 11:41:39 AM#156
Originally posted by Maelwydd
You still think the quote/reply is about poop...sad sad people.

lol, again. No, it's about opinions. Just like I originally intended it to be and it still stands. No matter how much you try to convice me of your opinion or vice versa, we will both they think the other stinks... Human nature

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1121

2/21/13 11:44:35 AM#157
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I can think of 3 mmos that are based on single player prior games, uo, wow & swtor.

One stuck hard to the original formula, the other two made mmos radically different to the single player games.

Which one was the greatest financial disaster in gaming history?

UO stuck to the same basic game design as the ultima series, may be wrrng never really got to try UO but from looking at the crappy youtube stuff then it certainly looks the same.

WOW - Totally changed direction in their game design. Went from a RTS to MMO. Appealed to an entirely new audience and there really was no comparrison at all because the different franchises.

SWTOR You could argue it tried to emulate the story driven KOTOR game but to behonest, if they had done taht it might have been more successful. Problem was, people were expecting KOTORO and didn't get it.

So yes, SWTOR faied because it deviated from the fanbases expectations too much while remaining in pretty much the same genre to try and capture more players, losing their exisiting fanbase and not securing enough from the 'other' category.

So...

Using an IP, remaining in the same genre but changing large portions of gameplay to fit online mode = failure.

Using an IP, keeping the basic structure of the game = Success.

Using an IP, creating a totally new market in a completly unrelated genre = Success.

 

Which is TESO again?

What ESO is doing is chaging genres (SPRPG to MMORPG. they are two completely different genres).

I know Bethesda are not making the game but they completely changed the game mechanics for TES: Redguard. That was a linear Tomb Raider style game. Why can't they do something different with ESO?

They arent completely different genres. They are 2 subsets of the same genre. RPG.

The only difference is that one is Single Player Offline and the other is Massive Multiplayer Online.

The RPG part is the same

A different genre would be a RTS and a RPG

 

And TES:Redguard sucked. Probably for the exact reason that they tried to turn an open world Elder Scrolls RPG into a linear Tomb Raider TPS

Zenimax isnt changing genres with ESO. They are taking an open world ES RPG and turning it into a linear Thempark DAOC2 MMORPG

 

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/21/13 11:48:31 AM#158
Originally posted by Thandras
Originally posted by Maelwydd
You still think the quote/reply is about poop...sad sad people.

lol, again. No, it's about opinions. Just like I originally intended it to be and it still stands. No matter how much you try to convice me of your opinion or vice versa, we will both they think the other stinks... Human nature

Well if I agree with you does that mean logically your opinion is incorrect and so not all opinions stink? And if that is possible then perhaps if I disagree with you then you are wrong and I am right?

I don't think all opinions stink BTW. Doing so just means you can never judge an opinion corectly. But I have no problem pointing out where people are just plain stupid or missing the point.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3575

2/21/13 11:53:01 AM#159
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by muffins89

yes

yes

yes

Why?

because the games lead designers are stuck in the past and cannot come up with any new ideas. They have on rose colored glasses and actually believe the game they are basing it off of was great...so great it seems they think it will apply successfully to anything even though history proves them wrong.

::sigh::  Tamriel is huge, and there are lots of places a person can travel and explore, but we're going to be forbidden to explore the land becuase the developers want to recreate DAoC?   This maybe the one reason I will not even look at this game now.   Stupid.

you'll just need to make more than one character.  think of it as 3 ES games in one.

No.  I just won't play their game.

This is just like DAoC lands. 4 maps, one for each factions and a Open worldish RvR area where the factions did PvP. If you liked DAoC its how they did it. 

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/21/13 11:53:27 AM#160
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by immodium

What ESO is doing is chaging genres (SPRPG to MMORPG. they are two completely different genres).

I know Bethesda are not making the game but they completely changed the game mechanics for TES: Redguard. That was a linear Tomb Raider style game. Why can't they do something different with ESO?

They arent completely different genres. They are 2 subsets of the same genre. RPG.

The only difference is that one is Single Player Offline and the other is Massive Multiplayer Online.

The RPG part is the same

A different genre would be a RTS and a RPG

 

And TES:Redguard sucked. Probably for the exact reason that they tried to turn an open world Elder Scrolls RPG into a linear Tomb Raider TPS

Zenimax isnt changing genres with ESO. They are taking an open world ES RPG and turning it into a linear Thempark DAOC2 MMORPG

 

QFT

 

(Hmmm thought I had replied to this but my post seems to have not gone through but this was the essence of what i wrote)

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