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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Help me understand this...

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233 posts found
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7185

2/21/13 8:09:54 AM#121
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Hmm wildstar bully. Looks like wow in space to me.

really? Looks like Toy Story to me :p

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 8:16:20 AM#122
Well yeah that too.
  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 8:22:02 AM#123
Originally posted by Bossalinie

DAOC people and TES people... why can't we be both?

Well TES has millions of fans and DAOC has hundreds of thousands but who knows what the subset is? Would you gamble on the figure? The gamble is that there are more DOAC or DAOC+TES fans then there are TES fans or TES + MMO fans.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 8:35:03 AM#124
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Mael - no the two camps I described both think they are "true tes fans", even though their views on what tes is as a mmo are diametrically opposed.

Some tes fans see the imaginary tes mmo in their heads as a pure pve game.

Some tes fans see the imaginary tes mmo one their heads as a ffa pvp sandbox.

Can't please both. Pleasing just one would lead to low sales for the budget in the second case (think eve) or very low sales in the first case (think vanguard)

Love your logic.

Take a small group, add their number to another small group and suddenly you have a really huge group, far larger then the total of the 2 smaller groups combined.

I know using fancy math you can prove that 1+1 does not equal 2 but I am pretty sure the logic doen't apply to MMORPG's.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 9:11:08 AM#125
Well look at the "true tes fans" in all these whine about rvr threads.

Half of them think "true tes" involves no pvp whatsoever or some crappy swg like voluntary flagging system, including the rather silly suggestion of voluntarily flagging yourself to be a pick pocket victim

The other half think it should be a ffa gankfest where you can break in other players houses and steal all their stuff.

Truth is SKYRIM IS NOT A MMO. Everyone has their own imaginary tes mmo in their head. There is no such thing as "mmo just like tes", as that would either be a) not a mmo, b) a sub standard cooprpg pretending to be a mmo (see swtor) or c) matching the imaginary ideals of just one group of "true tes fans", which is the polar opposite of what other "true tes fans" want.

They took ideas from daoc because it occupies a middle ground, its one of a very rare group of mmos that cater to pvp, pve and crafting EQUALLY.
  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 9:14:04 AM#126
Originally posted by ShakyMo
They took ideas from daoc because it occupies a middle ground, its one of a very rare group of mmos that cater to pvp, pve and crafting EQUALLY.

Hence it's onging and continued success....

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2717

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/21/13 9:16:10 AM#127
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by muffins89

 

 

 

::sigh::  Tamriel is huge, and there are lots of places a person can travel and explore, but we're going to be forbidden to explore the land becuase the developers want to recreate DAoC?   This maybe the one reason I will not even look at this game now.   Stupid.

you'll just need to make more than one character.  think of it as 3 ES games in one.

No.  I just won't play their game.

not every game is for everyone. 

You're right, but of all the games to put this in, this is not the one.   Also, even in WOW, we could travel the world...the whole world.   Even on PvP servers, you couldn't attack players of the other faction outright in their own lands and hurt them.   They had to attack you first before you could do damage back.   Are you telling me that a game from 2003 has better game mechanics than a game being designed for 2013?

Sadly I disagree. it is the developers game, your choice to play it or not but it is not your choice to demand what you want.

 

The devs know full well thery may alienate alot of players but they do this knowing the gameplay elements they are going for are far more important then the revenue lost and for this I applaud the F**K for them because not many game studios nowadays pass up potential revenue for the sake of keeping their game pure and immaculate.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Bossalinie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 621

2/21/13 9:18:51 AM#128
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Bossalinie

DAOC people and TES people... why can't we be both?

Well TES has millions of fans and DAOC has hundreds of thousands but who knows what the subset is? Would you gamble on the figure? The gamble is that there are more DOAC or DAOC+TES fans then there are TES fans or TES + MMO fans.

Stil ldoesn't mean we can't be both.

TES is stepping in the MMO realm anyways. There not a single IP who's game went from a different genre in the MMO genre and it's gameplay remained anyhing similar to it's roots.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2717

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/21/13 9:19:43 AM#129
Originally posted by bcbully
This will be the last AAA w/o Wpvp. 

OMG that is hilarious.  You actually think World PvP is such a strong selling point for MMO's.  LOL I have news to you, the fans of world PvP are perhaps the smallest market in the MMO genre right behind the loving sandbox model of gaming.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 9:20:12 AM#130
Originally posted by azzamasin
 

The devs know full well thery may alienate alot of players but they do this knowing the gameplay elements they are going for are far more important then the revenue lost and for this I applaud the F**K for them because not many game studios nowadays pass up potential revenue for the sake of keeping their game pure and immaculate.

There is a reason why not many game studio's take a known IP and change the core concepts and founding principles of the game. I will leave you to work out what that might be though....

 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 9:21:05 AM#131
Mael
Yes hence its ongoing success despite being run by ea clowns

Hence the excitement for cu

Hence the two most successful new mmos of last year being heavily influenced by it. Gw2 is basicly a "my first daoc"
Ps2 obviously influenced by ps1 which was based upon daoc and unreal tournament.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 9:22:16 AM#132
But yeah they should copy the CLOSED swg instead and just have crappy flag yourself on pvp

(and voluntary please pick my pocket lol)
  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 9:23:12 AM#133
Originally posted by Bossalinie

Stil ldoesn't mean we can't be both.

TES is stepping in the MMO realm anyways. There not a single IP who's game went from a different genre in the MMO genre and it's gameplay remained anyhing similar to it's roots.

I actually tried to think of a title of a game that was a single player game and became an MMO but couldn't. Perhaps some examples might help us look at the issues more clearly.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2717

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/21/13 9:23:42 AM#134
Originally posted by ShakyMo
There's one group of players who thought tes would be like a fantasy eve or a big budget darkfall, to be honest that's what I thought it would be like.

You've got another group who thought it would be a 99% pve game like EQ or swg.

They can't satisfy both camps.

So what do they do. Well they could go with camp 1 but they wouldn't sell that much and would be looking at eve levels of players, which given the budget wouldn't be acceptable.

Or they could go pure pve and have even less players (remember vanguard)

The majority of players like both pve and pvp, but don't like pvp interfering with their pve.

So they have to have pvp, but not "forced" pvp. That leaves them 2 options, take a wow style approach and ghetto pvp off in meaningless mini games, which would really piss off the first group, and well the last thing we need in the mmo space is yet another bloody wow clone.

Or they take a daoc approach, which at least has some emergent behaviour in pvp so would annoy the first camp less and the second camp can still completely avoid pvp.

But history shows if you go the daoc approach you need hard factions, you can't have wooly "soloutions" where people can be chums in pve - tsw, Ao, Aoc culture servers even gw2 sort of. Or where people can have alts on the same server of differing factions - swtor, wow, rift, war after bioware takeover, where you get xfaction cheating running rife.. The only games that got it truly right - daoc itself, both planetsides, early war went very hard on faction lock.

It's a price they pay to make the game work.

Of course what they should do is copy daoc more and have coop servers with no pvp where you can go anywhere and group / guild with anyone, and ffa pvp servers where guilds claim keeps.

Nicey stated and I agree I wish there were several ruleset servers and those would not effect the balance of development nor would it be possible for players to transfer to or off them.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 9:24:13 AM#135
Mael
Yeah the lotr mmo is just like the ip
As is dcuo
And any other ip based mmo

LOL
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/21/13 9:27:14 AM#136
WOW is a mmo.based on a single player game
Ultima online is a mmo.based on single player game
  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 9:29:48 AM#137
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Mael
Yes hence its ongoing success despite being run by ea clowns

Hence the excitement for cu

Hence the two most successful new mmos of last year being heavily influenced by it. Gw2 is basicly a "my first daoc"
Ps2 obviously influenced by ps1 which was based upon daoc and unreal tournament.

Is DAOC still running? LOL ok

Forgive me if I am wrong but...isn't CU all PvP and no PvE? Isn't the excitement a little premature?

If GW2 was influenced by DOAC that explains a lot. I played PS2 for a few hours...round and round we go, no point to it. rather play a proper PvP game. The PvP in both GW2 and PS2 were both...souless.

Sorry but I know some might agree with you thinking DAOC was a better game to emulate then TES for a TESO game but I don't. But having 3 factions fighting isn't the problem. Losing my ability to explore the world with my character and being forced into a faction by race is.

Whatever you say, these 2 things mean it is not a TES game, in any format, to me.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 9:30:54 AM#138
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Mael
Yeah the lotr mmo is just like the ip
As is dcuo
And any other ip based mmo

LOL

What game was LOTRO based off?

What was the pre-cursor to DAOC?

Learning to Read FTW!

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

2/21/13 9:33:13 AM#139
Originally posted by ShakyMo
WOW is a mmo.based on a single player game
Ultima online is a mmo.based on single player game

What game was WOW based on?

UO...yeah that is a good one. So what changes were made to UO from the SPG? I mean, the world is the same, could go anywhere...what did they have to lose to make it work in an MMO format?

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 658

2/21/13 9:33:24 AM#140
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by muffins89

yes

yes

yes

Why?

because the games lead designers are stuck in the past and cannot come up with any new ideas. They have on rose colored glasses and actually believe the game they are basing it off of was great...so great it seems they think it will apply successfully to anything even though history proves them wrong.

::sigh::  Tamriel is huge, and there are lots of places a person can travel and explore, but we're going to be forbidden to explore the land becuase the developers want to recreate DAoC?   This maybe the one reason I will not even look at this game now.   Stupid.

you'll just need to make more than one character.  think of it as 3 ES games in one.

 Or we could look at it for what it is, a game being made by designers choosing to use old outdated piss poor game design.

Why should we settle for crap when we know full well an MMORPG can be made open world and allow us to chose the faction WE WANT TO CHOSE, WITH THE RACE WE WANT TO PLAY and be able to go where we want, when we want? Especially when they are using an IP that IS MADE JUST LIKE THAT!

This! QFT.

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

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