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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » For a series known for its amazing PvE - why so focused on PvP for ESO?

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157 posts found
  User Deleted
2/24/13 9:03:43 PM#141
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Loke666

The game sounds pretty fun but I wish they would have bought the DaoC license from EA and made the game into DaoC2 instead, now they will make the fans of the original game dissapointed. Or they could have made a new IP for that matter, or licensed some IP better fit for this type of game.

Firor is not bad but he is the wrong person to turn ES into a MMO. ES have been about exploration since Daggerfall and the DaoC model is just too limited for that.

I know plenty of fans excited for the MM Oversion because the game as designed has the best of 2 worlds.  The best aspects of the Elder Scrolls Series and the best aspects of DAoC tied up into a nice neat little package.

And to think this is going on what little stuff we know, there are tons of new information that is yet to come.

"The best of 2 worlds" rarely works out, exploration PvE and massive PvP are hard to mix in the same game. But it will be interesting to see how they succeded of course.

I still think they should have turned this game into DaoC2 instead though.

Tell that to World of Warcraft!

 

game set and match.

Not to mention that every PvP only MMO to date has been a terrible failure.

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

2/24/13 9:11:27 PM#142
Originally posted by DMKano

The game is developed by ZeniMax studio headed by ex Mythic (Dark Age of Camelot) dev Matt Firor.

So the developer has never done any of the single player elder scrolls games before, but has worked on an awesome (vanilla DAoC, I wasn't a fan of the expansions) RvR game.

Its all about the studio doing dev and what they are good at, the single player series was done by different developers studios so that fact that it was all PvE doesn't mean squat about TESO.

The lore is largely irrelevant, if Zenimax was working on StarWars, Zombie or a Muppet game they would all most likely be 3 factions with RvR.

 

Umm, GIANT FYI for you.

Bethesda, who made all the TES games, is owned by Zenimax...

So therefore, Zenimax has DIRECT access to the original TES develepment staff.  The fact they chose to use former Mythic developer just shows thaty their intention was to make a PvP game from the beginning, and forgo(and take a big giant shit on) everything that TES is about.

This is simply nothing short of a larger company buying out a smaller, quality company, ignoring all the key players that made that smaller company what it is, and just using the name to sell a product that has little in comparison to it's namesake.

TESO is trying to be everything that TES IS NOT, and is saying FUCK YOU to all the fans of TES by taking every single aspect that made the TES games what they are and throwing in a giant dung heap.

  azzamasin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2827

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/24/13 9:13:44 PM#143
Originally posted by jedensuscg
Originally posted by DMKano

The game is developed by ZeniMax studio headed by ex Mythic (Dark Age of Camelot) dev Matt Firor.

So the developer has never done any of the single player elder scrolls games before, but has worked on an awesome (vanilla DAoC, I wasn't a fan of the expansions) RvR game.

Its all about the studio doing dev and what they are good at, the single player series was done by different developers studios so that fact that it was all PvE doesn't mean squat about TESO.

The lore is largely irrelevant, if Zenimax was working on StarWars, Zombie or a Muppet game they would all most likely be 3 factions with RvR.

 

Umm, GIANT FYI for you.

Bethesda, who made all the TES games, is owned by Zenimax...

So therefore, Zenimax has DIRECT access to the original TES develepment staff.  The fact they chose to use former Mythic developer just shows thaty their intention was to make a PvP game from the beginning, and forgo(and take a big giant shit on) everything that TES is about.

This is simply nothing short of a larger company buying out a smaller, quality company, ignoring all the key players that made that smaller company what it is, and just using the name to sell a product that has little in comparison to it's namesake.

TESO is trying to be everything that TES IS NOT, and is saying FUCK YOU to all the fans of TES by taking every single aspect that made the TES games what they are and throwing in a giant dung heap.

You're utterly and annoyingly wrong my friend.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2827

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/24/13 9:16:08 PM#144
Originally posted by jedensuscg
Originally posted by DMKano

The game is developed by ZeniMax studio headed by ex Mythic (Dark Age of Camelot) dev Matt Firor.

So the developer has never done any of the single player elder scrolls games before, but has worked on an awesome (vanilla DAoC, I wasn't a fan of the expansions) RvR game.

Its all about the studio doing dev and what they are good at, the single player series was done by different developers studios so that fact that it was all PvE doesn't mean squat about TESO.

The lore is largely irrelevant, if Zenimax was working on StarWars, Zombie or a Muppet game they would all most likely be 3 factions with RvR.

 

Umm, GIANT FYI for you.

Bethesda, who made all the TES games, is owned by Zenimax...

So therefore, Zenimax has DIRECT access to the original TES develepment staff.  The fact they chose to use former Mythic developer just shows thaty their intention was to make a PvP game from the beginning, and forgo(and take a big giant shit on) everything that TES is about.

This is simply nothing short of a larger company buying out a smaller, quality company, ignoring all the key players that made that smaller company what it is, and just using the name to sell a product that has little in comparison to it's namesake.

TESO is trying to be everything that TES IS NOT, and is saying FUCK YOU to all the fans of TES by taking every single aspect that made the TES games what they are and throwing in a giant dung heap.

You wnat to play a TES style MMO game with your friends.  Here is a novel approach and it shouldn't take much to figure out but to save you the guessing game I'll spell it out for you.

 

Do not go to Cryodill and RvR.

 

there you go, you now have a PvE TES game in an online environment that you can play with all your friends and you get access to 2X as much total area to explore compared to the original single player games. 

 

Profit!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2827

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/24/13 9:19:03 PM#145
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Neherun

 

How is TES series built on PvE? Its a single-player game, there's no chance for PvP. (Don't you go split-creen on me, as the series is originally a PC exclusive.)

 

Kind of missing the point of the question.

TESO had the option of going 100% PvE or having varying amounts of PvP. Thir design seems to be very heavily focused on PvP. The question why did they focus so much on PvP is very valid. Saying the SPG didn't have PvP is irrelevent.

For example, if TESO was based around the same core design of 3 faction PvP fighting over a cetral hub then why not do the following: -

Make the 3 factions untied into racial/regional restrictions but of political/idealogical idea's.

Make any faction avialable to any race.

Make any region explorable.

Keep the unwritten rule that combat outside Cyrodil was not allowed (rather then hard locking where people can go to stop fighting just stop fighting but allow people to roam free).

Due to regions/races not being faction locked you cannot really tell which faction people belong too outside Cyrodil so you justify no attacks outside the PvP area.

PvE is available to all races in all area's.

Everyone now has 300% of content and can choose where to do the content so it is now possible to level 3 characters of the same race without repeated content if required (assuming they haven't copy pasted content currently).

PvP remains untouched in terms of where you CAN fight.

PvE exploration is now 100% open.

Character choice is now 100% open.

Faction pride remains unchanged because those that are PvP'ing are still doing it in the same place with the same goals.

Guilds can now recruit from all races.

Guild members are not faced with having to choose between guild and the character they want to play if they conflict.

Friends can now PvE together anywhere on the map and join the same faction.

 

Seriously, I could go on all day.

Dumb design, dumb supporters.

 

because then you bastardize the whole Realm Pride aspect that is numero uno in promoting fanatical devotion to your realm and inspiring realm pride.  Ask any fan of DAoC if the game would be the same if an Albion could wonder and explore all of Hibernia or Midgard.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  GreenWidow

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/09
Posts: 160

2/24/13 10:01:15 PM#146

because then you bastardize the whole Realm Pride aspect that is numero uno in promoting fanatical devotion to your realm and inspiring realm pride.  Ask any fan of DAoC if the game would be the same if an Albion could wonder and explore all of Hibernia or Midgard.

Sorry but this is a moronic quote.

This is NOT DaoC.  The people that made DaoC should never have been put in charge of any TES inspired MMO.

The very concept of PVP being anything other than completely secondary to this game is rediculous.

The morons that are in charge took a beloved IP and ignored EVERYTHING that made it beloved and successful and did the same old crap that all the other MMO's that have failed have done in the past.

They think they can carry the same old shit on a really good IP.

I got news for them...StarWars, Lotro, StarTrek...failures because of this idiocy.

But they are different because they are...oh wait no they arn't...it's the same old shit with a different IP.

 

Why the hell can't they concentrate on the things that made people love the TES ip in the first place...because they are not TES people.

That idiot from DaoC has no clue and he's fucking up a really glorious and beloved IP to suit his dumbass concept of what an MMO should be.

end rant...

“Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.”The Iron Code"

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1965

2/24/13 10:17:27 PM#147
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

F

 

A

 

Same IP, but not the same genre. look at it that way and its more clear. the developers are working with the same IP story, but in different forms of gameplay.

TES couldnt have PvP since it was single player. This game is MMO, not just multiplayer.

Knock it off, pvp != MMOs and stop acting like ES games didnt have pvp cause it was a single player game. 

Its an RPG genre, it woulda been better if they made Skyrim 2(I liked skyrim better than morrow) and added co-op.  Hell theres a mod group trying to add Multiplayer to Syrim ; omg!!!!!!!! and its not pvp but pve co-op 8O 

DAoC was a cool game the pve was pretty fun and melee fighting was more complex than EQ combat. But DAoC wasnt the epitome of pvp history. It was decent but like someone mentioned earlier they had regular nerf patches.

Whats with old DAoC devs trying to turn popular IPs into DAoC redux .   They screwed up Warhammer ip now there after Elder Scroll.   Jeeezzz DAoC wasnt that popular whats there deal.

 

Oh also wanted to shout out that 3 faction pvp is lame 90s sauce.  Back in the day it was neat but why the hell would i bother with that kind of pvp just for the hell of it... Didnt they learn from WAR old gimmicky pvp isnt going to keep ur subscribers.   World of Darkness  ftw!!!!!!!!!!!  

Don't forget the now PvP only, Camelot Unchained being made by the other founder of Mythic, Mark Jacobs.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1965

2/24/13 10:20:55 PM#148
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Margulis
This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  

Because the series was single player? And now this is a multiplayer game? Last time I checked, its pretty hard for a single player game to be anything but PvE focused.

A big part of multiplayer games is player vs player. It is content that basically keeps the game fresh.  Going for a PvE focused game is a losing battle, you will never keep up with the content locusts. Well designed PvP will keep players around.

Yeah, imagine that.  A single player franchise wanting to draw in all of those single player fans by focusing on PvP.  Get a clue.  The biggest part of MMO is the cooperation.  You PvP junkies are niche, but will never admit it.  Notice all of the PvP centric MMOs that are huge in the market?  Didn't think so.

  Ghavrigg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 730

2/24/13 10:24:27 PM#149
It's would be stupid of them to cater only to the amount of people who only want to PvE, instead of doing everything and appealing to the masses.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/24/13 10:34:32 PM#150

Most of the people posting in this thread about TESO focusing on PvP because this is an MMO are in the thread about TESO having voice-overs saying its because TES did...this is so going to be another SWTOR...voice-overs AND an RvR focus = piss poor PvE...guess thats why even THEY ARE SAYING lvl 1-50 is just to get you to the REAL game.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Reklaw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

2/25/13 2:45:30 AM#151
Originally posted by Ryowulf

I wouldn't say gap filler, more like another option for people to do.  An mmo is a gathering for people with different tastes.  As far as pve goes gw2 is doing factal dungeons. Neverwinter is going to have player made content.  There are things to do besides just rvr.

It concerns me ESO is so focused on rvr to the point the game is being built around it. 

 

Your concern could also be a good thing?

The way I see it with most MMO's PVP/RVR/Crafting/Harvesting is just slapped on top of the game, many games trying to be many things yet miss a clear focus point. Now...building a game around a clear focus point should in fact make sure that the focus point of the game needs to be completely polished.

Do we already know that PVP doesn't influences PVE or the other way around?

And well player made content means something different to me then what  Neverwinter brings. Not saying that Neverwinter isn't real player made content cause it is, but to me player made content is being interdependent, something as simple as another player needing hides for his craft, unable to get those hides, hires some combat player, asks friends, guildmates to get it for him in exchange of credits/golds/crafted gear etc... but that's for a different topic ;)

Shouldn't we actually be happy that they try to give us a different game experiance than that of what we already know from their singleplayer series.

I feel many Elders Scrolls fans will become dissappointed if the MMORPG would be very similar to the singleplayer games as you simply can not get that PVE feel from a singleplayer game into a MMO. You feel the conflict going on in the singleplayer game world because the world is centered around YOU the one player. To me the best way of mimicking something like that into a MMORPG would be in either PVP or RVR, that way you should be able to unfluence the outside ingame world.

Of course there should be familiar elements in the game that are so loved from the series

 

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

2/25/13 3:32:59 AM#152

I don't see an issue with having PvP in the game some form,

but regardless of what the PvP morons think, they should NEVER HAVE EVER made PvP the main focus.

 

And everyone who thinks they are not making PvP the main focus are just ignorant to the blinding fact staring at them in the face.

THE ONLY FUCKING REASON they went with locked factions instead of traditional TES open system, is so they could have this fucking RvRvR.

THE ONLY REASON!!!!!!  They are changing the vary nature of TES just to conform to to a three faction PvP system.  In essence, they are throwing everything that made TES a fastastic PVE style game out the windoe because it does not fit with the PvP idea they want.

Instead of making TESO an open game like all the games before it, and then adding PvP to that, they are doing the opposite.  Building the entire game around PvP.  To those of you saying you can just ignore the PvP areas and all that bullshit, I should not be locked out of 2/3 of the map because I was deadlocked into a faction based on my race.  At the VERY LEAST, choice of faction should be left to the player, and even then should be optional until a certain level, allowing you to explore and see for yourself what each faction is about.

But no, your deadlocked.

Fuck this arrogant bastard that made DAoC.  Cool, he wants to make another DAoC ripoff, fine by him. But don't take a shit on a great IP just so you can have "star power" to sell your game.  Because onces you fuck over TES with a shitty MMO that is nothing like the single player game except in name, then you ruin all hope of TES fans of getting the TES MMO they have been wanting for years.

Just like we will probably not see another Star Wars MMO for years and years to come because EA/Bioware molested the IP and shit out SWTOR.

 

Here is how the pitch probably went down.

Matt Firor: I want to make a modern version of DAoC

Company: You know your other buddy is also trying to make a Camelot game, unchained or something.  I don't think the market can handle two of these games at once.

Matt Firor: It's cool, we build the same excact game, but we can just slap on a famous IP over it and people won't know the difference

Company: What IP?

Matt: I think The Elder Scrolls, Zenimax owns Bethesda, so we already have the IP. And its popular right now because of Skyrim

Company: But, TES games are all about open world, join what faction you want, freedom type game. RvRvR tends to lock you into to much stuff.

Matt: Eh, the customers are idiots they won't know any better. By the time they realize they have been hoodwinked we will have them by the balls err i mean wallets.

  Vindicar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 137

Dun Mock meh engliesh !

2/25/13 4:08:58 AM#153
Originally posted by jedensuscg

 


 

Here is how the pitch probably went down.

Matt Firor: I want to make a modern version of DAoC

Company: You know your other buddy is also trying to make a Camelot game, unchained or something.  I don't think the market can handle two of these games at once.

Matt Firor: It's cool, we build the same excact game, but we can just slap on a famous IP over it and people won't know the difference

Company: What IP?

Matt: I think The Elder Scrolls, Zenimax owns Bethesda, so we already have the IP. And its popular right now because of Skyrim

Company: But, TES games are all about open world, join what faction you want, freedom type game. RvRvR tends to lock you into to much stuff.

Matt: Eh, the customers are idiots they won't know any better. By the time they realize they have been hoodwinked we will have them by the balls err i mean wallets.

 

After the pointless kiddish analogys here comes some fun fun stuff... high level stuff !

It's cool to not want to be a sheep... but you are trying a little too hard here and fall into the other side's herd. You become a caricature and your arguments (actually they are nothing to discuss within your post...) fails to do the job.

 

So yes, TESO's backbones SEEMS to be the Cyrodiil RvR.

But how the hell do you know allready for sure (so fewking sure!!!!!!111!!!!!) that it will ruin your dream of a PvE-Carebear-no-danger-in-exploration game ? Sure the locked-lands sucks hard... but this is the only REAL bad feature we know for now... and only HERE do poeples assume it is allready so and cannot change.

 

I guess you fell in that category considering that PvP and PvE does not fit together. I'm not on your side at all here, dood.

 

Old school french hardcore whiner. Online since T4C.

I was "Namless" and "Daroot" in AO (Rk2)
Recently known as "Vindicar" (Aion (EU), SWTOR (EU), WoW (EU).
Actually Known as "Wundicar" in Age of Wushu (US)

  walltar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 60

2/25/13 4:50:49 AM#154
Well it is MMO game in TES universe ... MMO without strong PvP would be epic fail in my eyes. And second best system is 3way RvR (first being eve's free PvP envirnonment) So id say that i am glad they are focusing on PVP ... it will be MMO, not SP game. Those who wants SP tes you can just wait on next one.

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

2/25/13 4:56:49 AM#155
Originally posted by Vindicar
Originally posted by jedensuscg

 


 

Here is how the pitch probably went down.

Matt Firor: I want to make a modern version of DAoC

Company: You know your other buddy is also trying to make a Camelot game, unchained or something.  I don't think the market can handle two of these games at once.

Matt Firor: It's cool, we build the same excact game, but we can just slap on a famous IP over it and people won't know the difference

Company: What IP?

Matt: I think The Elder Scrolls, Zenimax owns Bethesda, so we already have the IP. And its popular right now because of Skyrim

Company: But, TES games are all about open world, join what faction you want, freedom type game. RvRvR tends to lock you into to much stuff.

Matt: Eh, the customers are idiots they won't know any better. By the time they realize they have been hoodwinked we will have them by the balls err i mean wallets.

 

After the pointless kiddish analogys here comes some fun fun stuff... high level stuff !

It's cool to not want to be a sheep... but you are trying a little too hard here and fall into the other side's herd. You become a caricature and your arguments (actually they are nothing to discuss within your post...) fails to do the job.

 

So yes, TESO's backbones SEEMS to be the Cyrodiil RvR.

But how the hell do you know allready for sure (so fewking sure!!!!!!111!!!!!) that it will ruin your dream of a PvE-Carebear-no-danger-in-exploration game ? Sure the locked-lands sucks hard... but this is the only REAL bad feature we know for now... and only HERE do poeples assume it is allready so and cannot change.

 

I guess you fell in that category considering that PvP and PvE does not fit together. I'm not on your side at all here, dood.

 

Umm, maybe it has something to do with the offical confirmations of stuff like, you know, lock factions, umm, oh ya that thing about being unable to explore 2/3 of the world without rolling alts (and which is contrary to the 'faction pride" crap they are spewing) You do know the game is supposed to come out this year, you do also know they have already CONFIRMED the land locks. And that you are locked to your factions area. Highly doubt it will ever change.

Players may not travel into the “home” areas beloning to enemy alliances. Therefore all PvP in ESO takes place within Cyrodiil. This limited exploration is intented to preserve faction identity, protect players from unsolicited PvP, and enhance replayability.(reference)

Also, their reasoning behind this is further proof of their bullshit.

"Each alliance’s home area is unique, and the distinct identity of a alliances native provinces helps to foster realm pride amongst players and enhance the meta-conflict which fuels the social side of a three alliance realm war. For prolonged success of the AvA meta-game within the fan community, it is very important that players can identify themselves with their alliance and alliance."

They talk about facion pride, yet design a system that PROMOTES rolling alts, thus negating faction pride when most players will have a character from each faction in order to explore the whole world. If you could explore the entire world as one character, the chances of developing this faction pride is greater, as you can focus on just one character.

PvP is fine, I already said that

But TES is first and formost a PvE game about exploration and openess.   This game is aiming to be A PvP first game, that to implement that are remove all open world exploration.

If I wanted to just explore a small part of the world, I can do that in Skyrim.  Hell, we have been doing that in every TES through the years.  TESO was supposed to allow our characters to explore all these lands as a whole.

Yet we are still locked to a part of the world, and instead need to roll three different characters to experience it all.  A lot of players like to focus on one character, or if they do make alts, prefer to stay in one guild.

There are a hunfred ways to do PvP, even RvRvR PvP and still keep the spirit of TES intact.  But Mr Firor is so jaded to making a carbon copy of DAoC, that he can't think outside the box.

  walltar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 60

2/25/13 5:04:38 AM#156
Well and then there are other people who likes faction lock ... because when you got bored with your caracter you just roll new one in diff alliance and you got a new gaming experience. For themepark MMO i think it is better that completely open world. Id rather see this game as sandbox, but it's not going to happen and no amount of whining will change it.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

2/25/13 6:06:30 AM#157

Nothing wrong with a good PvP model as 'A' focus.

Massive problems with a game whose PvE gets shafted to accomodate the PvP model.

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