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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » For a series known for its amazing PvE - why so focused on PvP for ESO?

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157 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

2/17/13 11:45:11 PM#101
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Iselin

There seem to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum picking apart this MMO's design for several reasons that, IMHO, boil down to just one thing: you don't really want an Elder Scrolls MMO. What you really want is another single player ES game.

 There seems to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum kissing developers bottoms no matter the design for one reason, IMHO, boils down to being massive DaoC fans that knows the game sucked so much it will never be made and so they dont care how they get something like, they will take it, even going so far as to say that anyone against the game must BLAH BLAH BLAH HURKA DURR DERP DURP...

which is why even when people point out how MMOs have been made more like TES, they even say things like quoted above, gotta protect that outdated craptastic DaoC style gameplay!

Another example of IP zealotry at work... Maybe you'll save TES from itself if you rage hard and often enough, you think?

 Another example of fanboy zealoty at work...Maybe you'll save TESO from itself if you blindly defend hard and often enough, you think?

amidoinitrite?

You sure like throwing the fanboy word  around instead of saying anything intelligent. Maybe in your neck of the woods or swamp shouting louder and more obnoxiously wins the arguments

Here's one of my favorite definitions of fanboy:

2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like. 

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 252

2/17/13 11:51:50 PM#102
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Iselin

There seem to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum picking apart this MMO's design for several reasons that, IMHO, boil down to just one thing: you don't really want an Elder Scrolls MMO. What you really want is another single player ES game.

 There seems to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum kissing developers bottoms no matter the design for one reason, IMHO, boils down to being massive DaoC fans that knows the game sucked so much it will never be made and so they dont care how they get something like, they will take it, even going so far as to say that anyone against the game must BLAH BLAH BLAH HURKA DURR DERP DURP...

which is why even when people point out how MMOs have been made more like TES, they even say things like quoted above, gotta protect that outdated craptastic DaoC style gameplay!

Never hate something just because you suck at it.

Some of us will like the game, some of us won't... those who wont, also wont be missed by the ones who will play it.

See where Im going with this? Or will you continue to post completely irrelevant and pointless stuff on a forum of a game you don't like while you could be on a forum of a game you like being somewhat productive and where people actually value your opinion?

You're just making these forums harder to read thats all... apart from that, you and your opinion are irrelevant since all you do is hate the game. Oh and man up and stop crying and whining about everything... now, watch the head, keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle; dont want you to get hurt on your way out

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7486

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

2/18/13 7:15:54 AM#103
Originally posted by Iselin

To state the obvious, the Elder Scrolls series was PVE only because it was a single player game... Hard to do PVP by yourself 

Of course it is known for good PVE--that's the only type of gameplay it had.

There seem to be a lot of butthurt people in this forum picking apart this MMO's design for several reasons that, IMHO, boil down to just one thing: you don't really want an Elder Scrolls MMO. What you really want is another single player ES game.

 

 

Nah, what I wanted from this IP was simply a game that offered me all the features and lands so far seen in the single player games stitched together, the main personalised story arcs removed, and co-op play. Nothing more, nothing less.

Not hating on the TESO for what it is, but it dosen't offer what I personally want from the association with the TES brand.

  Neherun

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/07
Posts: 217

2/18/13 7:36:24 AM#104
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

 

How is TES series built on PvE? Its a single-player game, there's no chance for PvP. (Don't you go split-creen on me, as the series is originally a PC exclusive.)

 

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/18/13 8:03:57 AM#105
Originally posted by Neherun

 

How is TES series built on PvE? Its a single-player game, there's no chance for PvP. (Don't you go split-creen on me, as the series is originally a PC exclusive.)

 

Kind of missing the point of the question.

TESO had the option of going 100% PvE or having varying amounts of PvP. Thir design seems to be very heavily focused on PvP. The question why did they focus so much on PvP is very valid. Saying the SPG didn't have PvP is irrelevent.

For example, if TESO was based around the same core design of 3 faction PvP fighting over a cetral hub then why not do the following: -

Make the 3 factions untied into racial/regional restrictions but of political/idealogical idea's.

Make any faction avialable to any race.

Make any region explorable.

Keep the unwritten rule that combat outside Cyrodil was not allowed (rather then hard locking where people can go to stop fighting just stop fighting but allow people to roam free).

Due to regions/races not being faction locked you cannot really tell which faction people belong too outside Cyrodil so you justify no attacks outside the PvP area.

PvE is available to all races in all area's.

Everyone now has 300% of content and can choose where to do the content so it is now possible to level 3 characters of the same race without repeated content if required (assuming they haven't copy pasted content currently).

PvP remains untouched in terms of where you CAN fight.

PvE exploration is now 100% open.

Character choice is now 100% open.

Faction pride remains unchanged because those that are PvP'ing are still doing it in the same place with the same goals.

Guilds can now recruit from all races.

Guild members are not faced with having to choose between guild and the character they want to play if they conflict.

Friends can now PvE together anywhere on the map and join the same faction.

 

Seriously, I could go on all day.

Dumb design, dumb supporters.

 

  azarhal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 580

2/18/13 10:44:47 AM#106
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
ESO has nothing to do with Elder Scrolls besides the lore. 

And not even that.

The game is supposed to be taking place during 2E, yet amazingly enough even though the lore states that not even after the fall of the last protector of the empire did any other faction invade imperial lands until SEPTIM himself came alone...in this game, not only will all sides invade imperial lands, we will be able to elect our own emperor...

worse yet, of the 3 factions only ONE of them was ever any real threat to the imperials...yet all 3 will be made equal.

So no, they are not even sticking to the lore, they are bastardizing it as much as everything else about the series. Beautiful elves?!? WTF.

They didn't change the lore, they added to it. They added to 400 years of emptiness. In fact, they are being quite brilliant with their usage of already known lore. They didn't change how High Rock, Hammerfell and the none-existant Orsinium are (Orsinium does not exist in TESO). They used the known political landscape to make the Daggerfal Covenant happen. Same goes for the Ebonheart Pact, using the alliance from the Akaviri invasion of 572 as the base for it. They also included the Knahaten Flu into the new lore.

Lore state: a bunch of petty warlords trying to take over the Ruby Throne to be crowned Emperor but never lasting long enough so they are unnamed in the anals of history (Pocket Guide to the Empire 1st edition that came with Arena in 1993).  This give us a bunch of petty warlords (guide leaders/players) trying to take over the Ruby Throne to be crowned Emperor and they will change every weeks and nobody will care who they are. Sound spot on to me.

As a  Elder Scrolls lore fans love how they have been going about it.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6179

2/18/13 1:27:56 PM#107
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

F

 

A

 

Same IP, but not the same genre. look at it that way and its more clear. the developers are working with the same IP story, but in different forms of gameplay.

TES couldnt have PvP since it was single player. This game is MMO, not just multiplayer.

  EvolvedMonky

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 565

2/18/13 2:29:32 PM#108
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

F

 

A

 

Same IP, but not the same genre. look at it that way and its more clear. the developers are working with the same IP story, but in different forms of gameplay.

TES couldnt have PvP since it was single player. This game is MMO, not just multiplayer.

Knock it off, pvp != MMOs and stop acting like ES games didnt have pvp cause it was a single player game. 

Its an RPG genre, it woulda been better if they made Skyrim 2(I liked skyrim better than morrow) and added co-op.  Hell theres a mod group trying to add Multiplayer to Syrim ; omg!!!!!!!! and its not pvp but pve co-op 8O 

DAoC was a cool game the pve was pretty fun and melee fighting was more complex than EQ combat. But DAoC wasnt the epitome of pvp history. It was decent but like someone mentioned earlier they had regular nerf patches.

Whats with old DAoC devs trying to turn popular IPs into DAoC redux .   They screwed up Warhammer ip now there after Elder Scroll.   Jeeezzz DAoC wasnt that popular whats there deal.

 

Oh also wanted to shout out that 3 faction pvp is lame 90s sauce.  Back in the day it was neat but why the hell would i bother with that kind of pvp just for the hell of it... Didnt they learn from WAR old gimmicky pvp isnt going to keep ur subscribers.   World of Darkness  ftw!!!!!!!!!!!  

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 252

2/18/13 3:12:19 PM#109
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

F

 

A

 

Same IP, but not the same genre. look at it that way and its more clear. the developers are working with the same IP story, but in different forms of gameplay.

TES couldnt have PvP since it was single player. This game is MMO, not just multiplayer.

Knock it off, pvp != MMOs and stop acting like ES games didnt have pvp cause it was a single player game. 

Its an RPG genre, it woulda been better if they made Skyrim 2(I liked skyrim better than morrow) and added co-op.  Hell theres a mod group trying to add Multiplayer to Syrim ; omg!!!!!!!! and its not pvp but pve co-op 8O 

DAoC was a cool game the pve was pretty fun and melee fighting was more complex than EQ combat. But DAoC wasnt the epitome of pvp history. It was decent but like someone mentioned earlier they had regular nerf patches.

Whats with old DAoC devs trying to turn popular IPs into DAoC redux .   They screwed up Warhammer ip now there after Elder Scroll.   Jeeezzz DAoC wasnt that popular whats there deal.

 

Oh also wanted to shout out that 3 faction pvp is lame 90s sauce.  Back in the day it was neat but why the hell would i bother with that kind of pvp just for the hell of it... Didnt they learn from WAR old gimmicky pvp isnt going to keep ur subscribers.   World of Darkness  ftw!!!!!!!!!!!  

Actually the problem with Warhammer is that they tried to follow WoW's methods - anyone can go everywhere, their zones, their enemy's zones etc - Warhammer would have been better if not of that "WoW" layout - if it was faction locked, like DAoC or ESO is trying to do, then Warhammer would have been a great game.

It crosses no sane mind that an orc can run all happy across elven land - Theres NO WAY that would be possible in Warhammer - some factions actually cross paths and some even live in the same place as others, like Vampire Counts / Warriors of Chaos and Skaven - but you know how it works - they're killed on sight (apart from that battle between the VCs and Chaos where both decided that fighting at that time was pointless and both retreated) But the VCs constantly wipe large numbers of skaven for instance.

Skaven also live under the Empire's grounds, in tunnels where no one goes... no imperial goes into those skaven infested sewers, but in the game, sure... go there... glad that when I played the Skaven were not a player faction but more of a "mercenary" faction working for whoever crosses their path.

Of course, with such a racist and segregated lore, when you try to let players "go everywhere" the game turns to crap. And the same goes for ESO - all races are racist towards the others, ones more than others, each with their reasons, some think they're just better than others, others just hate everything else who isnt them...

So even these "factions" have internal struggles since they still dont get along - they joined up just to stand a chance, doesnt mean that they like who they're fighting with - but their "brothers in hate" are still better than the alternative (for the Ebon Pack for instance) and the Elves would never side with anyone else but Elves, still they lack the meat for the grinder so they get the cat people - again, its better than siding with Dark Elves or worse, Men.

Factions are good and the fact that you cant go to your enemy's lands actually makes you hate the other faction even more. Theres no contact whatsoever unless in open war. The WoW way of "go everywhere" completely killed any chance of PvP on that game, or realm pride or anything since you kept crossing each others paths and only 2 things happen - either you're ganked or nothing happens - both are equally ridiculous - why am I killing mobs next to a night elf whos doing exactly the same thing?

Faction lock and segregated zones make all the difference from all the crappy mmos out there. And drive the PvP to a huge zone where people can PvE also, but at risk... still the "absolute pve" people are safe from even seeing the faces of any other faction's member, so they can do their stuff. Still... from my experience in DAoC, everyone goes to the frontiers, even the most hardcore of PvEr. But its their decision, PvP doesnt come to them, they go to PvP. Its completely different then "why the fuck is this jack ass killing all the npcs in my town? Great now I cant attack him because he is high level, and I cant deliver quests or get a bloody horse out of here because he killed every single NPC and nobody does shit about it - noone cares".

I strongly believe that this segregation is awesome to the game.

As for World of Darkness... I wouldnt expect it any time soon - maybe 2015 or 16. But yea... seems like a cool game so far.

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 252

2/18/13 3:32:24 PM#110
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Neherun

 

How is TES series built on PvE? Its a single-player game, there's no chance for PvP. (Don't you go split-creen on me, as the series is originally a PC exclusive.)

 

Kind of missing the point of the question.

TESO had the option of going 100% PvE or having varying amounts of PvP. Thir design seems to be very heavily focused on PvP. The question why did they focus so much on PvP is very valid. Saying the SPG didn't have PvP is irrelevent.

For example, if TESO was based around the same core design of 3 faction PvP fighting over a cetral hub then why not do the following: -

Make the 3 factions untied into racial/regional restrictions but of political/idealogical idea's.

Make any faction avialable to any race.

Make any region explorable.

Keep the unwritten rule that combat outside Cyrodil was not allowed (rather then hard locking where people can go to stop fighting just stop fighting but allow people to roam free).

Due to regions/races not being faction locked you cannot really tell which faction people belong too outside Cyrodil so you justify no attacks outside the PvP area.

PvE is available to all races in all area's.

Everyone now has 300% of content and can choose where to do the content so it is now possible to level 3 characters of the same race without repeated content if required (assuming they haven't copy pasted content currently).

PvP remains untouched in terms of where you CAN fight.

PvE exploration is now 100% open.

Character choice is now 100% open.

Faction pride remains unchanged because those that are PvP'ing are still doing it in the same place with the same goals.

Guilds can now recruit from all races.

Guild members are not faced with having to choose between guild and the character they want to play if they conflict.

Friends can now PvE together anywhere on the map and join the same faction.

 

Seriously, I could go on all day.

Dumb design, dumb supporters.

 

Then what would be the point of factions then? I mean... they fight mostly for their "race pride", why should a High Elf fight alongside an orc which he considers a "beast" like a dog or a cow? They wont even let the orc drink from the same RIVER. And a nord would simply crush his skull with the first stone he could grab while the Elf was making those speeches about how good they are.

Every race can be of any faction is just stupid.

But what I think is... you guys see this as if you wont see a single breton in skyrim or a single Elf in hammerfell. This will be just like TES games, you'll have all kinds of merchants, turncoats and traitors, spies etc - you'll get to interact with any race in your homeland, you just cant GO yourselves, to the other faction's lands. Its not a problem since when you bought Oblivion you couldnt go to Morrowind, and when you had Morrowind you couldnt go to Cyrodiil or Hammerfell, but you had all the races there doing their stuff. (I'm not sure about seeing an orc in summerset isle... unless hes a slave pulling the wheat grinder next to a cow, or being sold as a "good watch dog" lol)

Its not like in Skyrim you'll only see nords... you see everyrace, it will be your regular TES game. You just wont see PLAYERS from the other factions - which makes sense.

  EvolvedMonky

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 565

2/18/13 4:20:47 PM#111
Originally posted by Crazyhorsek
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

F

 

A

 

Same IP, but not the same genre. look at it that way and its more clear. the developers are working with the same IP story, but in different forms of gameplay.

TES couldnt have PvP since it was single player. This game is MMO, not just multiplayer.

Knock it off, pvp != MMOs and stop acting like ES games didnt have pvp cause it was a single player game. 

Its an RPG genre, it woulda been better if they made Skyrim 2(I liked skyrim better than morrow) and added co-op.  Hell theres a mod group trying to add Multiplayer to Syrim ; omg!!!!!!!! and its not pvp but pve co-op 8O 

DAoC was a cool game the pve was pretty fun and melee fighting was more complex than EQ combat. But DAoC wasnt the epitome of pvp history. It was decent but like someone mentioned earlier they had regular nerf patches.

Whats with old DAoC devs trying to turn popular IPs into DAoC redux .   They screwed up Warhammer ip now there after Elder Scroll.   Jeeezzz DAoC wasnt that popular whats there deal.

 

Oh also wanted to shout out that 3 faction pvp is lame 90s sauce.  Back in the day it was neat but why the hell would i bother with that kind of pvp just for the hell of it... Didnt they learn from WAR old gimmicky pvp isnt going to keep ur subscribers.   World of Darkness  ftw!!!!!!!!!!!  

Actually the problem with Warhammer is that they tried to follow WoW's methods - anyone can go everywhere, their zones, their enemy's zones etc - Warhammer would have been better if not of that "WoW" layout - if it was faction locked, like DAoC or ESO is trying to do, then Warhammer would have been a great game.

It crosses no sane mind that an orc can run all happy across elven land - Theres NO WAY that would be possible in Warhammer - some factions actually cross paths and some even live in the same place as others, like Vampire Counts / Warriors of Chaos and Skaven - but you know how it works - they're killed on sight (apart from that battle between the VCs and Chaos where both decided that fighting at that time was pointless and both retreated) But the VCs constantly wipe large numbers of skaven for instance.

Skaven also live under the Empire's grounds, in tunnels where no one goes... no imperial goes into those skaven infested sewers, but in the game, sure... go there... glad that when I played the Skaven were not a player faction but more of a "mercenary" faction working for whoever crosses their path.

Of course, with such a racist and segregated lore, when you try to let players "go everywhere" the game turns to crap. And the same goes for ESO - all races are racist towards the others, ones more than others, each with their reasons, some think they're just better than others, others just hate everything else who isnt them...

So even these "factions" have internal struggles since they still dont get along - they joined up just to stand a chance, doesnt mean that they like who they're fighting with - but their "brothers in hate" are still better than the alternative (for the Ebon Pack for instance) and the Elves would never side with anyone else but Elves, still they lack the meat for the grinder so they get the cat people - again, its better than siding with Dark Elves or worse, Men.

Factions are good and the fact that you cant go to your enemy's lands actually makes you hate the other faction even more. Theres no contact whatsoever unless in open war. The WoW way of "go everywhere" completely killed any chance of PvP on that game, or realm pride or anything since you kept crossing each others paths and only 2 things happen - either you're ganked or nothing happens - both are equally ridiculous - why am I killing mobs next to a night elf whos doing exactly the same thing?

Faction lock and segregated zones make all the difference from all the crappy mmos out there. And drive the PvP to a huge zone where people can PvE also, but at risk... still the "absolute pve" people are safe from even seeing the faces of any other faction's member, so they can do their stuff. Still... from my experience in DAoC, everyone goes to the frontiers, even the most hardcore of PvEr. But its their decision, PvP doesnt come to them, they go to PvP. Its completely different then "why the fuck is this jack ass killing all the npcs in my town? Great now I cant attack him because he is high level, and I cant deliver quests or get a bloody horse out of here because he killed every single NPC and nobody does shit about it - noone cares".

I strongly believe that this segregation is awesome to the game.

As for World of Darkness... I wouldnt expect it any time soon - maybe 2015 or 16. But yea... seems like a cool game so far.

So your saying WAR failed cause it lacked faction-locked zones? Realy? Realy Realy? Come on your just messing around no way you believe the reason WAR failed so bad was cause an orc can go around in Elf lands.... 

So why didnt SWToR succeed, I heard some mythic devs helped em out while it was being developed. Also Republic and Imperial had there own zones with it intersecting once inawhile. Let me guess the Third faction??? So all a successful game needs is locked zones and three factions????

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 252

2/18/13 4:27:42 PM#112
Well... Yes really. The faction lock was a must have in warhammer, in starwars it should be only the starting zones and specific places like jedi conclaves.

Different games, different universes, different settings and lore, different rulesets.

Is that so hard to grasp? Lol

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7768

Logic be damned!

2/18/13 4:38:42 PM#113
Originally posted by Vesavius

I can only think it's because;

  • They want to appeal to what they consider to be the populist market
  • The devs are stuck in the lazy increasingly outdated mindset of MMO = PvP
  • PvP is cheap filler content that keeps the monkeys happy flingling poo at each other

Exactly.

PvP is cheap, easy repeatable content. Players are content. Give them a hill to fight over, they will spend their lives taking and retaking that hill.

It's like a bad Spy vs. Spy comic.

PvE actually requires the devs to create something that doesn't suck - that doesn't get repetitive and isn't boring: which most devs still fail really hard at as most PvE sucks too.

I mean, look at a game like Planetside 2. Nothing but PvP. Boring, repetitive, grind fest of can flipping.

I don't know - I'm starting to think I myself as well as a large portion of the gaming community is tired of doing the same shit over and over again.

Give me a great story line, excellent game play, and a decent number of hours to justify spending 60$ and I'm sold. I'm not going to play your game over and over and over again for months/years unless you are constantly adding more stuff.

GW2 is shifting that way with all the "living story" and such - Bungie is talking about constantly expanding story in Destiny, Halo 4 tried it (and did pretty well IMO) with the Spartan Ops weekly.

The idea of a linear one time through single player "story" and then grinding out mulitplayer forever is quickly fading into the past.

Just like the idea of grinding out your levels to max then PvP'ing for months/years is a joke.

If you aren't doing monthly or bi-monthly content updates you might as well not even waste my time.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

2/18/13 4:40:19 PM#114
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

So your saying WAR failed cause it lacked faction-locked zones? Realy? Realy Realy? Come on your just messing around no way you believe the reason WAR failed so bad was cause an orc can go around in Elf lands.... 

So why didnt SWToR succeed, I heard some mythic devs helped em out while it was being developed. Also Republic and Imperial had there own zones with it intersecting once inawhile. Let me guess the Third faction??? So all a successful game needs is locked zones and three factions????

Ah the great Mythic/Bioware relationship confusion strikes again...damn you EA! SWTOR was Bioware's baby. Mythic was just a sad little studio by that point that, after Mark Jacobs was fired, was overseen by some Bioware devs. They may have talked about faction lock in the lunchroom at some point but they probably also talked about sandbox vs. themepark and world peace there...long after the key design bridges had already been crossed by BW alone.

The use of an almost 100% PVE game (minus scenario e-sport and a lonely icy planet) as any kind of evidence of what faction lock is all about in a 3-sided RvR game is just a classic non-sequitur. SWTOR failed for many reasons: mostly due to being an extreme themepark on rails with ultimately, little to differentiate it from WOW...and losing to WOW in every respect in any objective head to head comparison. Faction lock wasn't why it failed.

The one and only game you should look at if you're interested in how 3-sided faction lock works is the previous (and actually very good) Mythic game, DAoC... for obvious reasons. That is where this idea came from and it's being designed to play--in this respect anyway--like a DAoC 2...not a WAR 2 nor a SWTOR 2.

Superficial similarities aside, neither SWTOR nor WAR have anything to do with this project.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

2/18/13 4:49:51 PM#115
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Vesavius

I can only think it's because;

  • They want to appeal to what they consider to be the populist market
  • The devs are stuck in the lazy increasingly outdated mindset of MMO = PvP
  • PvP is cheap filler content that keeps the monkeys happy flingling poo at each other

Exactly.

PvP is cheap, easy repeatable content. Players are content. Give them a hill to fight over, they will spend their lives taking and retaking that hill.

It's like a bad Spy vs. Spy comic.

PvE actually requires the devs to create something that doesn't suck - that doesn't get repetitive and isn't boring: which most devs still fail really hard at as most PvE sucks too.

I mean, look at a game like Planetside 2. Nothing but PvP. Boring, repetitive, grind fest of can flipping.

I don't know - I'm starting to think I myself as well as a large portion of the gaming community is tired of doing the same shit over and over again.

Give me a great story line, excellent game play, and a decent number of hours to justify spending 60$ and I'm sold. I'm not going to play your game over and over and over again for months/years unless you are constantly adding more stuff.

GW2 is shifting that way with all the "living story" and such - Bungie is talking about constantly expanding story in Destiny, Halo 4 tried it (and did pretty well IMO) with the Spartan Ops weekly.

The idea of a linear one time through single player "story" and then grinding out mulitplayer forever is quickly fading into the past.

Just like the idea of grinding out your levels to max then PvP'ing for months/years is a joke.

If you aren't doing monthly or bi-monthly content updates you might as well not even waste my time.

Raises hand...happy poo-flinging, hill-fighting monkey here.

Rather do that than consume canned content at a rapid pace or learn the correct choreography required to complete a raid succesfully...that's PvE for you...canned an non-repeatable (except by those who enjoy reading the same book 32 times.)

I would also think twice before putting anyone down because they're having fun, or worse, assume that the only reason they're having fun is because they are a less evolved sub-category of MMO player. Glass houses and all that...

Well-designed large-scale PVP like "RvR" is repeatable because it's fun, not dependent on suckling on the teat the new content cow, and never the same twice. MMOs could and routinely do much worse than this.

  EvolvedMonky

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 565

2/18/13 5:25:42 PM#116
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

So your saying WAR failed cause it lacked faction-locked zones? Realy? Realy Realy? Come on your just messing around no way you believe the reason WAR failed so bad was cause an orc can go around in Elf lands.... 

So why didnt SWToR succeed, I heard some mythic devs helped em out while it was being developed. Also Republic and Imperial had there own zones with it intersecting once inawhile. Let me guess the Third faction??? So all a successful game needs is locked zones and three factions????

Ah the great Mythic/Bioware relationship confusion strikes again...damn you EA! SWTOR was Bioware's baby. Mythic was just a sad little studio by that point that, after Mark Jacobs was fired, was overseen by some Bioware devs. They may have talked about faction lock in the lunchroom at some point but they probably also talked about sandbox vs. themepark and world peace there...long after the key design bridges had already been crossed by BW alone.

The use of an almost 100% PVE game (minus scenario e-sport and a lonely icy planet) as any kind of evidence of what faction lock is all about in a 3-sided RvR game is just a classic non-sequitur. SWTOR failed for many reasons: mostly due to being an extreme themepark on rails with ultimately, little to differentiate it from WOW...and losing to WOW in every respect in any objective head to head comparison. Faction lock wasn't why it failed.

The one and only game you should look at if you're interested in how 3-sided faction lock works is the previous (and actually very good) Mythic game, DAoC... for obvious reasons. That is where this idea came from and it's being designed to play--in this respect anyway--like a DAoC 2...not a WAR 2 nor a SWTOR 2.

Superficial similarities aside, neither SWTOR nor WAR have anything to do with this project.

I played DAoC and it wasnt that good of a game.  Some people here act like it was the best pvp mmo back then.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 987

2/18/13 5:27:29 PM#117

In regard to the OP, the series is not famous because it's PvE. The series is famous for a million little things added together, like the lore, the exploration, the leveling system, etc. The way you fight monsters in the SP game is the least of why I enjoy playing them. In fact, the PvE fighting is probably the worst thing about the whole series.

Why is the game as focused on PvP as it is? Conflict. Conflict is fun. That's why most of you are here on this forum arguing about whether this game will suck balls or rock hard. That's why many of you, even though you dislike this game to your core, will return to these very forums to spit acid at the ones who see merit in TESO. Conflict.

As many have pointed out, it's a different genre, and they're expanding their gameplay based on that change.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4034

2/18/13 5:27:56 PM#118
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

So your saying WAR failed cause it lacked faction-locked zones? Realy? Realy Realy? Come on your just messing around no way you believe the reason WAR failed so bad was cause an orc can go around in Elf lands.... 

So why didnt SWToR succeed, I heard some mythic devs helped em out while it was being developed. Also Republic and Imperial had there own zones with it intersecting once inawhile. Let me guess the Third faction??? So all a successful game needs is locked zones and three factions????

Ah the great Mythic/Bioware relationship confusion strikes again...damn you EA! SWTOR was Bioware's baby. Mythic was just a sad little studio by that point that, after Mark Jacobs was fired, was overseen by some Bioware devs. They may have talked about faction lock in the lunchroom at some point but they probably also talked about sandbox vs. themepark and world peace there...long after the key design bridges had already been crossed by BW alone.

The use of an almost 100% PVE game (minus scenario e-sport and a lonely icy planet) as any kind of evidence of what faction lock is all about in a 3-sided RvR game is just a classic non-sequitur. SWTOR failed for many reasons: mostly due to being an extreme themepark on rails with ultimately, little to differentiate it from WOW...and losing to WOW in every respect in any objective head to head comparison. Faction lock wasn't why it failed.

The one and only game you should look at if you're interested in how 3-sided faction lock works is the previous (and actually very good) Mythic game, DAoC... for obvious reasons. That is where this idea came from and it's being designed to play--in this respect anyway--like a DAoC 2...not a WAR 2 nor a SWTOR 2.

Superficial similarities aside, neither SWTOR nor WAR have anything to do with this project.

I played DAoC and it wasnt that good of a game.  Some people here act like it was the best pvp mmo back then.

 Sorry you didn't like it. To me and many others it was the best PVP game then and to this day.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 987

2/18/13 5:32:28 PM#119
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

I played DAoC and it wasnt that good of a game.  Some people here act like it was the best pvp mmo back then.

When did you play it?

It was definitely a noteworthy PvP experience. Best is all a matter of opinion.

  XcomVic

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/04
Posts: 35

2/18/13 5:36:09 PM#120
PVP SELLS. ENOUGH SAID. THAT IS WHY WILDMAN FAILED KICKSTARTER...NO PvP!
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