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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » For a series known for its amazing PvE - why so focused on PvP for ESO?

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157 posts found
  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 999

2/16/13 5:28:52 PM#61

Three faction RvR is the focus.

The reason is Matt Firor.

 

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  User Deleted
2/16/13 5:28:57 PM#62
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
Originally posted by Karteli

PVP is cheap endgame content, whereas PVE needs to be constantly added to.

 

PVE generally has a hate following as well by casuals who want everything the quality guilds have, yet without working towards them in a multiplayer environment.  WoW tried to make the casuals like their game by giving them top level epics via soloable content (crafting, dailies, rep grinds)... then the guilds who overcame those impossible achievements were upset.  "Hardcore" players quit and WoW was left a shamble of what it used to be, but still a haven for casuals. [hence why you see all those posts about WoW being great during Vanilla and Burning Crusade].

 

PVP can be a mixed bag if the gear is obtained through repetition instead of skill.  Think resilience, expertise, or any other PVP mechanic to differentiate PVP gear qualities.

 

Since TESO will be a casual players themepark game, the least offensive situation would be to eliminate PVE and make the game about PVP skill.  PVE exists to get TES fans to buy the game, but not to stay.

 

My take on it anyways - I could be wrong, but seems like that is how Zenimax derived their game.

PvP doesnt discriminate... If you know the insides and out of the charater your playing an your foe just as equally, knowing the habits of foe and timing.. you can defeat your opponent.

However PvE, going against a controlled AI knowing the insides and outs of the Bosses abilities you can win BUT you still have to deal with the politics and rules set up by the guild that is running the raid... thus creating situations where one could win the roll for an item but still NOT gain said item.

Having that chance to win an item is part of the thrill though.  DKP came about because of such scenarios, but it was the gamers who derived the system, and the players that accepted it.  Players who participated more, won more.  That is a sustainable mechanic, and one created by players too.

 

Casuals didn't like DKP though, because they can't / won't play often enough to get integrated into a guild.  But they still want to be the hero in an MMORPG.  /sigh

 

PVP offers instant gratification, which (sadly to me) satisfies their gaming needs, which are more short term than long term.  Every PVP game has suffered, unless your name is League of Legends.  But an MMORPG that depends on progression can't exactly get LoL players...

 

MMORPG's are pretty much founded on "build-me-up" characters.  Doesn't mesh well with PVP.

 

 

Zod understands your point of view.

Question, after you get these elite items from the raids and you strenthen your character... then what? Do you just become stronger for the next eventual raid?

Atleast with PvP you have a reason to get stronger, Serve your realm better, higher on the food chain etc....

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

2/16/13 8:04:10 PM#63
TES has never been about multiplayer period.  Of course an MMO is going to have a different focus.
  Grunch

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 520

2/16/13 8:15:55 PM#64

Just don't pvp. Then the game will become 100% pve for you. See thats an easy fix.

 

Really I think it is because pvp keeps most players entertained longer then pve. With pve you have to constantly keep pumping out new stuff. I like how this game will have both and so should you.

"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  2/16/13 8:16:46 PM#65
Because it isn't really an elder scrolls game.  It's DAoC 2 with the elder scrolls ip slapped on to increase sales
  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1123

2/16/13 8:38:16 PM#66
Originally posted by nilden

Three faction RvR is the focus.

The reason is Matt Firor.

 

Hehe. Love the logo. 3 dragons perpetually eating each others asses

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

2/16/13 8:50:33 PM#67
Originally posted by Inktomi
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Inktomi

It's TES, how bad can it be? Do you really think Bethesda will let its best cash-cow falter (beside FO3 n NV) after so many years of success? 

No way man. It's a brand name.

 

Ahh the memories of Bioware and Star wars pre launch are flooding back....

True, past performance is not indicative of future results. But there is $x.xx of dollars waiting on this game. They release I will invest into them and give it a go. It turns out to be another...what was it...tortanic? I lose a couple of bucks. 

I didn't lose a dollar on Star Wars, The Secret World and countless other over-hyped duds that have rolled down this mmorpg.com pipe. I am willing to put my rep behind TESO though.

 

Well, glad you are Ink.

The point I was making though was simply a trusted dev, lots of money, and a much loved brand do not always add up to a good game, so citing them at this point as a reason why it's gonna be great is a bit premature.

The chances are TESO will be a solid offering and appeal to a decent amount of people, though sadly I won't be one of them for different reasons. I actually hope it won't be another SWTOR tbh... this industry needs more succes and diversity all round.

 

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1464

2/16/13 9:13:33 PM#68

I wouldn't mind PvP in MMO's if they didn't screw over PvE abilities to balance PvP.  I don't even mind open world PvP too much.  For the love of god don't cut off 2/3 of the world for PvP immersion.  And mark my words they will destroy PvE abilities for PvP "balance" like every other dumbass MMO dev out there.  If they do separate the PvE and PvP mechanics I will put my money where my mouth is.  

 

Can you imagine the vocal PvP crowd if PvE reasons gutted their abilities.  GW2 (I like the game a lot despite this) has a 1 second fear...that's not a joke.

  Thedrizzle

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/06
Posts: 331

BWC

2/16/13 9:17:44 PM#69

Don't get me wrong here, but maybe the game never had pvp was because it was a single player game?

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/16/13 10:37:47 PM#70
Originally posted by Mardukk

I wouldn't mind PvP in MMO's if they didn't screw over PvE abilities to balance PvP.  I don't even mind open world PvP too much.  For the love of god don't cut off 2/3 of the world for PvP immersion.  And mark my words they will destroy PvE abilities for PvP "balance" like every other dumbass MMO dev out there

 And the people in charge of this game did it OFTEN in DaoC, so much so that my guild and I walked away from the game...that was almost 400 people that got so sick of them dropping massive nerf hammers, many of them wasnt even on our realm, but we walked when the Hibernia protests started taking place...and we were in Midgard...it was a case of enough is enough...and that there was better PvP in other games anyway.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6672

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

2/16/13 10:43:39 PM#71
LOL they better hope this game doesn't tank hard because this will be the worst failure in mmo history.  
  spankybus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 1169

"Don''t touch that squirrel''s nuts!" - Willy Wonka

2/16/13 11:10:39 PM#72
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

Of course the series thus far has been primarily PvE...it's always been single player. Many fans have been screaming for Co-Op play for ages, all for not.

 

This is the first Elder Scrolls with any kind of Multiplayer element to speak of...even if Bethesda is not directly creating it...it's still elder scrolls. With that, fans with finally get their Co-Op experience they've been craving.

 

Naturally, the other side of this coin must be PvP...the opposite of Co-Op. do they leave it out completely? That doesn't feel right with the lore....Tamriel has had more than its share of discord...and banning PvP just doesn't fit this history.

 

So, should they tack it in as an afterthought? Throw in a few arena fights, etc sure...this could jive...I mean..arenas aren't new in the Lore. But again, given the story they are trying to tell, that seems off. Fight for the crown with Rock, Paper, Scissors?

 

It seems to me that what they are doing with PvP is the best approach for and elder scrolls game with multiplayer. It's not an option everywhere...but where it is available....it's full-on war.

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  Laromuss

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 331

2/16/13 11:10:52 PM#73
Originally posted by Normandy7
LOL they better hope this game doesn't tank hard because this will be the worst failure in mmo history.  

Why do they need to hope?  And I think you're confusing this game with SWTOR.   No game will fail as hard as that game will, why will ESO not have that fate, well because the hype is not even close the hype SWTOR receieved and addtionally ESO so far hasn't lied about a single thing thus far.  

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

2/17/13 12:17:54 AM#74
Originally posted by Laross
Originally posted by Normandy7
LOL they better hope this game doesn't tank hard because this will be the worst failure in mmo history.  

Why do they need to hope?  And I think you're confusing this game with SWTOR.   No game will fail as hard as that game will, why will ESO not have that fate, well because the hype is not even close the hype SWTOR receieved and addtionally ESO so far hasn't lied about a single thing thus far.  

SWTOR didn't fail that hard... warhammer still goes down for the biggest in my book.  AoC was pretty bad but they had a super comeback.

No one thought these games would fail at the time (well there was a few but no one took them seriously).  ESO may or may not fail but it's not unsinkable.  There may be things wrong with it that we never even thought, this game has every right to hope it doesn't fail.

  Crazyhorsek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/12
Posts: 252

2/17/13 12:54:40 AM#75
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Mardukk

I wouldn't mind PvP in MMO's if they didn't screw over PvE abilities to balance PvP.  I don't even mind open world PvP too much.  For the love of god don't cut off 2/3 of the world for PvP immersion.  And mark my words they will destroy PvE abilities for PvP "balance" like every other dumbass MMO dev out there

 And the people in charge of this game did it OFTEN in DaoC, so much so that my guild and I walked away from the game...that was almost 400 people that got so sick of them dropping massive nerf hammers, many of them wasnt even on our realm, but we walked when the Hibernia protests started taking place...and we were in Midgard...it was a case of enough is enough...and that there was better PvP in other games anyway.

lol... oh the op realm. What... you quit when they stopped groups of 1 skald and 7 warlocks from insta dumping 3 bubbles each killing ANYTHING on their path?

Please cry me a river about nerf hammers on midgard... seriously.

Stop making bad publicity when you were obviously a bad player - and by your other posts, any daoc player can tell you didnt play enough.

Not also you dont know DAoC well enough, theres also that part of TES where you don't know the lore - honestly, why are you on this forum since the only thing you do is pretty much bash the game?

Go to your favorite game forum and well... stay there - I dont go to Guild Wars 2 forum just to say how much I hate that crap.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2840

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

2/17/13 2:12:03 AM#76

The way I look at it is this:

In the single player RPG, you could kill pretty much anything you wanted and as such the game(s) were very dark and gritty with that feeling of dread and dispair.  Having PvP or better yet RvR in ESO is just an extension of that dark gritty world of single player games.  I also look at it like this, you need some sort of PvP in an MMO.  Even though I do not like PvP as much as I used to.  You still need it especially if you're making an MMO to capture a large percentage of the market.  They could of gone 3 routes with PvP.

  • Open World non factioned PvP (Darkfall or Eve)
  • Instanced PvP (Swtor)
  • RvR (DAoC)
There really is no other options, sure you can mix and match some elements of the 3 different types of PvP like WoW with open world and isntanced based or Instanced Based and RvR (GW2) but in the end they went with a system that has only been done 1 other time.  Focus all your PvP on the single method that hasnt been done to death while still keeping the flavor of the IP intact without diluting the end product from mix and matching PvP systems.  It also doesnt hurt that your Director is unversally known for implementing the RvR in DAoC and the RvR system is widely considered the best PvP game ever made.  To my understanding it offers all kinds of opportunities.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Sideras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 236

2/17/13 2:16:26 AM#77
Cause it's still a....... SPIIIIIIIIN OFFFFFFF.
  laokoko

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1937

2/17/13 3:40:58 AM#78

How do people even know it is pvp focused.  Or PvE sucks.  No one even played it.

The only thing people do know is it got 3 faction rvr.

  Kalstark

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 74

2/17/13 3:51:24 AM#79
Originally posted by Margulis
I can understand wanting to have PvP to some degree to appeal to all potential players, but it seems the biggest focus point from the devs, and their hype push, is all on the 3 faction system and PvP.  Why? This series was built on PvE, and any fan of the series would be a big fan of PvE also or they wouldnt even have even enjoyed the series.  So why would that not be the main focus?  Sure you want to draw in mmo players also who may not have been fans of the series because of the single player experience - but make that the biggest focus over what the series has become famous for? The hardcore PvP crowd isn't even that large of a percentage of the mmo community.  So again, why opt for this route?

 

i dont see how you came to this conclusion that they are focusing more on pvp than pve. can you please explain why you feel like this or are you just talking about stuff you have no idea about like the majority of people here?

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5561

2/17/13 4:14:11 AM#80
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
ESO has nothing to do with Elder Scrolls besides the lore. 

And not even that.

The game is supposed to be taking place during 2E, yet amazingly enough even though the lore states that not even after the fall of the last protector of the empire did any other faction invade imperial lands until SEPTIM himself came alone...in this game, not only will all sides invade imperial lands, we will be able to elect our own emperor...

worse yet, of the 3 factions only ONE of them was ever any real threat to the imperials...yet all 3 will be made equal.

So no, they are not even sticking to the lore, they are bastardizing it as much as everything else about the series. Beautiful elves?!? WTF.

i think their hoping that people buying into ESO will not be interested in TES lore, as for the Elves, they used the Elves from LOTRO as a template, their not TES Elves at all, im surprised their not catching flack for stealing another games IP to be honest, never mind their totally corrupting the TES IP, just watching the video, there is no clue as to what kind of Elf is supposed to be depicted, although my guess is its probably supposed to be an Altmer, its almost as if the creators of ESO had never actually played a TES game, and arent overly familiar with either the lore or the look of any of the games.

I wonder if Bethesda is going to cut loose from Zenimax, tbh, they might well be better off ditching the parent company given the way this game is developing, although have to say, while most TES players will be totally familiar with the Bethesda title, their probably not all that familiar with Zenimax, so maybe if the game ships without Bethesda's name on it, then it might not sell anyway. I know the game isnt on my future purchase plans at least.

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