Originally posted by Valentina

nothing, so far tbh. at least, nothing that will be "superior"....people keep saying "rvr rvr rvr!!" but that's not really true, is it...you're not fighting realm vs realm, it's faction warfare that I can see becoming a huuuuuuuuge pitfall for the game depending on how they handle this emperor nonsense. Yeah, there's more character development in terms of what weapon and armor types you use which is great and all but it sounds like another gear treadmill which many people are all too sick of. And then there's the fact they haven't really detailed anything about the elder game except for "the game doesn't really open up until x level" which sort of stomped my interest into the ground. The more I hear about this game the less interested I become...And I was excited before.

As for lore...The lore in the GW series is extremely deep, anyone who says it isn't is either trolling, or obviously has no clue about the series at all. There are many differnet cultures in guild wars, all of which are developed in terms of lore and information, history, timelines etc. In the end, while TESO could be interesting, I doubt it will be genuinely any "better" than gw2 currently does, and there is no telling what GW2 will become by the time TESO is released. The one thing I would say ANET needs to do is add more sandbox inspired content to the game going forward, incrimentally. TESO doesn't sound like it even has the most basic functions of a sandbox, either...So...

The lore in GW2 is no where near the depth of lore in TES games and what will be in ESO. ZeniMax hired a guy (who is a historian) just to be the Lore Guru for ESO because TES' lore is so complicated.  To catch yourself up to the lore, you can start reading here: http://www.imperial-library.info/

Grab some snacks, it's gonna take a while.

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Marcus-
So there could potentially be several "instances" of the RvR zone? That was certainly one of my bigger disappointments in WARs endgame.

There will be several versions of cyrodiil yes, called campaigns, but they have more in common with servers than instances (hold up to 2k players, they dont reset, you get locked to the campaign and they're perminent), its not like you will log into cyrodiil 2 one day and the next your in cyrodiil 7, you can only swap instances if you choose to pay to (will cost allience points)

I'm not even going to try to hide my ignorance of this game, but this almost sounds worse.

 

They could potentially in that case be spreading a thin playerbase even thinner during non-peak hours. I'm also curious what effect that could have on the RvR and its benefit to the world (if any).

 

I plan to look into the game a lot more, as I really enjoy RvR. I just tend to look at games as they get closer to launch. I saw this thread and thought it might give me some pros and cons compared to GW2.    I'm thinking i probably should have looked into it more before piping up.

Thanks for your info though :)

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Marcus-
So there could potentially be several "instances" of the RvR zone? That was certainly one of my bigger disappointments in WARs endgame.

There will be several versions of cyrodiil yes, called campaigns, but they have more in common with servers than instances (hold up to 2k players, they dont reset, you get locked to the campaign and they're perminent), its not like you will log into cyrodiil 2 one day and the next your in cyrodiil 7, you can only swap instances if you choose to pay to (will cost allience points)

I'm not even going to try to hide my ignorance of this game, but this almost sounds worse.

 

They could potentially in that case be spreading a thin playerbase even thinner during non-peak hours. I'm also curious what effect that could have on the RvR and its benefit to the world (if any).

 

I plan to look into the game a lot more, as I really enjoy RvR. I just tend to look at games as they get closer to launch. I saw this thread and thought it might give me some pros and cons compared to GW2.    I'm thinking i probably should have looked into it more before piping up.

Thanks for your info though :)

How is having a perminent pvp home (much like a server would be) worse than having a non perminent instance? The answer to you question about what happens when the player levels fall off, is the same as when it happens on a server based game, they will just merge the lower pop campaigns like they would lower pop servers

Originally posted by deakon

How is having a perminent pvp home (much like a server would be) worse than having a non perminent instance? The answer to you question about what happens when the player levels fall off, is the same as when it happens on a server based game, they will just merge the lower pop campaigns like they would lower pop servers

Well if they merge them at low population times than it may not be, but i didn't get that impression from your first post, apologies.

There's obviously a whole lot more questions i have in regards to that and other things, but this really isn't the thread for it :)

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by deakon

Originally posted by Marcus-
So there could potentially be several "instances" of the RvR zone? That was certainly one of my bigger disappointments in WARs endgame.

There will be several versions of cyrodiil yes, called campaigns, but they have more in common with servers than instances (hold up to 2k players, they dont reset, you get locked to the campaign and they're perminent), its not like you will log into cyrodiil 2 one day and the next your in cyrodiil 7, you can only swap instances if you choose to pay to (will cost allience points)

I'm not even going to try to hide my ignorance of this game, but this almost sounds worse.

 

They could potentially in that case be spreading a thin playerbase even thinner during non-peak hours. I'm also curious what effect that could have on the RvR and its benefit to the world (if any).

 

I plan to look into the game a lot more, as I really enjoy RvR. I just tend to look at games as they get closer to launch. I saw this thread and thought it might give me some pros and cons compared to GW2.    I'm thinking i probably should have looked into it more before piping up.

Thanks for your info though :)

How is having a perminent pvp home (much like a server would be) worse than having a non perminent instance? The answer to you question about what happens when the player levels fall off, is the same as when it happens on a server based game, they will just merge the lower pop campaigns like they would lower pop servers

I'm pretty ignorant about this game so far, but from what I've read on this thread the main difference between TESO's cyrodill and GW2's WvW is that the campaigns in TESO will be permanent while the matches on WvW reset every 2 weeks and new matchups are made. As far as I can see both systems have advantages and disadvantages, main advantage of TESO's system is that your contributions can be more permanent, they won't reset in a few weeks (at most) even if nobody takes it back...

The potential disadvantage I can see is what would happen if you end up locked on a campaign where one side completely dominates and you have no hope of ever beating or even defend from it, and I know that the 3 factions are supposed to prevent it, but both TSW and GW2 have 3 sided persistent battles and in both games I see one side completely dominating the other two for the duration of the game, usually thanks to either low numbers in the other two factions or the presence of more active and organized PvP guilds in one side.

Originally posted by ragz45

Just currious what do you guys see TESO offering you that GW2 currently does not offer?  What improvements do you see TESO having over GW2?  Almost my entire guild left GW2 within a month of the game's release.  When I ask most of them why they left they can't really pin it down to anything specific.  Just that they lost interest, and couldn't be bothered to log in.  The three big changes I see being different are

• Lore - ESO and GW both have a well established lore, ESO is just different.  But both are equally good.  And while this is a different aspect between the two games.  I don't see it as an improvment.
• Character development - This is where I think TESO will really shine.  The character development in gw2 is sort of lacking In my opinion.  Being stuck with certain weapons for certain classes, and having skills tied to those weapons kind of bugs me.  And after you have unlocked all of the attacks for each weapon, you really don't have anything huge to look forward to as far as advancing your character.
• Seamless world - Having no loading screens will be a nice change.

 

What other changes do you see between two games?  Of those changes is it really an improvement?

 

+Unique factions. One thing that bugged me really badly in GW2 besides the lack of character development/building, was the fact that I was basically fighting against a clone of my own faction in W v W. In TESO we get unique factions with races and racials and that's good, personally I dont care if it shakes the overall balance slightly as long as the factions are unique.

Originally posted by fs23otm

Originally posted by zastroph
Hopefully TESO will NOT have any pathetic level caping in lower level areas!

Shows how ignorant you are about GW2. The downleveling is one of the BEST features of GW2. I can play my 80 with all my friends lower level characters, and not completely facroll it. Sure I am a little bit more powerful, but not in such a way that I am one shotting stuff.

 

Play solo, all the way to level 80 (5 times), then tell me how easy it is!

Loco one of the reasons it is less balanced in gw2 is you ARE NOT locked to your server, its way to easy to transfer around. Gw2 would be in a better state if they stopped free transfers a few days after launch rather than waiting months.

Tsw is another matter, everyone is chums in pve, rewards are just for taking, its in a small area. Suprise suprise pve types go there and circle jerk the map / trade keeps to get a starter set for running dungeons. It's pvp where you get more goodies for actually avoiding pvp.

Originally posted by crysent

Originally posted by ragz45

Just currious what do you guys see TESO offering you that GW2 currently does not offer?  What improvements do you see TESO having over GW2?  Almost my entire guild left GW2 within a month of the game's release.  When I ask most of them why they left they can't really pin it down to anything specific.  Just that they lost interest, and couldn't be bothered to log in.  The three big changes I see being different are

• Lore - ESO and GW both have a well established lore, ESO is just different.  But both are equally good.  And while this is a different aspect between the two games.  I don't see it as an improvment.
• Character development - This is where I think TESO will really shine.  The character development in gw2 is sort of lacking In my opinion.  Being stuck with certain weapons for certain classes, and having skills tied to those weapons kind of bugs me.  And after you have unlocked all of the attacks for each weapon, you really don't have anything huge to look forward to as far as advancing your character.
• Seamless world - Having no loading screens will be a nice change.

 

What other changes do you see between two games?  Of those changes is it really an improvement?

Duh, everything, TESO offers everything GW2 currently does not!  Don't you know?!  TESO is the new kid on the block and no one here is going to complain about it until after it releases.  Until then we will have the highest expectations and defend it feverishly.

 

However, after it releases we will all just complain about it and call it a massive failure.

The force is strong with this one.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Loco one of the reasons it is less balanced in gw2 is you ARE NOT locked to your server, its way to easy to transfer around. Gw2 would be in a better state if they stopped free transfers a few days after launch rather than waiting months.

Tsw is another matter, everyone is chums in pve, rewards are just for taking, its in a small area. Suprise suprise pve types go there and circle jerk the map / trade keeps to get a starter set for running dungeons. It's pvp where you get more goodies for actually avoiding pvp.

PvE chum's is the not problem though. The problem with Fusang is that there is no incentive to defend. You can keep spinning things to back up your "race-locked factions is good for faction pride etc..." but the reality is, faction locking does not stop people creating alts (it is actually encouraged) and doing all the things you think the locking does. All it does is impact on the rest of the game, affecting freedom to create the character you want, preventing the freedom of exploration and allowing any race to join any guild/group/faction.

All these restrictions do nothing to actually prevent people logging on their alt when things go bad. As I said, the developers encourage people to switch sides through their own game design.

Sweetrolls. Possibly an arrow in the knee, too.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

All these restrictions do nothing to actually prevent people logging on their alt when things go bad. As I said, the developers encourage people to switch sides through their own game design.

And you're sure you can have an alt in a different faction in the same exact campaign your main is on? My assumption has been that your other-faction alts were locked out of being in the same campaign...is this wrong? Link?

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Loco one of the reasons it is less balanced in gw2 is you ARE NOT locked to your server, its way to easy to transfer around. Gw2 would be in a better state if they stopped free transfers a few days after launch rather than waiting months.

Tsw is another matter, everyone is chums in pve, rewards are just for taking, its in a small area. Suprise suprise pve types go there and circle jerk the map / trade keeps to get a starter set for running dungeons. It's pvp where you get more goodies for actually avoiding pvp.

Well, it's what they're trying to do now... they just disabled free transfers and reset the server standings, so now everything is supposed to start over again. I would have preferred for them to start again with 1 day - 1 week - 2 week matches like they did at release so that standing don't take so long to form again, though.

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by Maelwydd

All these restrictions do nothing to actually prevent people logging on their alt when things go bad. As I said, the developers encourage people to switch sides through their own game design.

And you're sure you can have an alt in a different faction in the same exact campaign your main is on? My assumption has been that your other-faction alts were locked out of being in the same campaign...is this wrong? Link?

The mega server allows everyone to play on the same server. It mentions nothing about how it affects the PvP and at no point when they talk about campains do they Mention being locked out of a campaign on an alt....funny they talk about faction locking players out of content but mention nothing about campaigns...so untill they say campaigns are the exception to how the mega server works then that is how it works. Burden of proof and all that...

It offers a completely different game, no less no more. Isnt that enough?

For me it offers different world, lore, graphics, atmosphere and gameplay. The combat in TESO is true to skyrim  and i think these are more than enough reasons. 

Also it helps when you are not fanatical in nature when it comes to certian MMOS. I like variety in my MMO plate.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by Maelwydd

All these restrictions do nothing to actually prevent people logging on their alt when things go bad. As I said, the developers encourage people to switch sides through their own game design.

And you're sure you can have an alt in a different faction in the same exact campaign your main is on? My assumption has been that your other-faction alts were locked out of being in the same campaign...is this wrong? Link?

The mega server allows everyone to play on the same server. It mentions nothing about how it affects the PvP and at no point when they talk about campains do they Mention being locked out of a campaign on an alt....funny they talk about faction locking players out of content but mention nothing about campaigns...so untill they say campaigns are the exception to how the mega server works then that is how it works. Burden of proof and all that...

You're right. They haven't said. So thinking it will work one way or the other is just speculation. I expect some of these kinks will get worked out in the beta but switching factions through alts in the same campaign makes so little sense that I seriously doubt that would be doable when it releases.

Faction lock and campaign locks are all about creating a sense of community... a sense of  "us vs. them." You need that sort of thing in RvR games. Otherwise they just become a large scale lobby BG...sort of like TSW and Fusang.

So you go right ahead and assume the system they create will be easily perverted through the use of alts... I'm betting against that.

Originally posted by ragz45

Just currious what do you guys see TESO offering you that GW2 currently does not offer?  What improvements do you see TESO having over GW2?  Almost my entire guild left GW2 within a month of the game's release.  When I ask most of them why they left they can't really pin it down to anything specific.  Just that they lost interest, and couldn't be bothered to log in.  The three big changes I see being different are

• Lore - ESO and GW both have a well established lore, ESO is just different.  But both are equally good.  And while this is a different aspect between the two games.  I don't see it as an improvment.
• Character development - This is where I think TESO will really shine.  The character development in gw2 is sort of lacking In my opinion.  Being stuck with certain weapons for certain classes, and having skills tied to those weapons kind of bugs me.  And after you have unlocked all of the attacks for each weapon, you really don't have anything huge to look forward to as far as advancing your character.
• Seamless world - Having no loading screens will be a nice change.

 

What other changes do you see between two games?  Of those changes is it really an improvement?

Real PvP and RvR. 

Originally posted by Iselin

You're right. They haven't said. So thinking it will work one way or the other is just speculation. I expect some of these kinks will get worked out in the beta but switching factions through alts in the same campaign makes so little sense that I seriously doubt that would be doable when it releases.

Faction lock and campaign locks are all about creating a sense of community... a sense of  "us vs. them." You need that sort of thing in RvR games. Otherwise they just become a large scale lobby BG...sort of like TSW and Fusang.

So you go right ahead and assume the system they create will be easily perverted through the use of alts... I'm betting against that.

I doubt they will leave such a big hole in their design but to think that faction locks create a sense of community when the game encourages (and for some peopel forces) you to create alts in other factions to see the rest of the game world then I think is expecting a bit much. You can buy out of a losing campain even if you can't login an alt to a campaign that is winning using insider knowledge (outside of asking others in other campaigns).

My point still remains, all these restrictions do is affect people outside of the PvP.

It restricts people playing the face/faction they desire, exploring the world as they desire and generally playing the game as they desire (i.e. in keeping with the spirit of a TES game).

These restrictions do not ensure people only play 1 faction, cannot hop thorugh campaigns to avoid losing them, be a member of all 3 factions, spying for other factions using an alt....

So if the restrictions do not prevent these things and do not force player pride (that is optional no matter what design they have) then why put them in as they have such massive detrimental repercussions elsewhere in the game.

Originally posted by Eletheryl

Real PvP and RvR. 

I'm skeptical... I don't see how you can have either of these, "truly", with faction locked zones.  Part of the real PvP sense of WoW's PvP servers came from being able to enter enemy lands.  It was exciting.  I'm not a big PvP'er, but I don't understand how any hardcore PvP'ers are thrilled about this.  It's worse than GW2's "no factions" set up, because you know where the enemy sleeps, but you can't kill him unless you enter a special zone..

And like I explained to a friend who didn't care for GW2's WvW, TESO explains their RvR almost exactly the same way.  Just try not to get your hopes up, no one's to blame for hyped up players but themselves if things turn out less than spectacular.