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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Is ESO a TES game? Analysis Inside

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82 posts found
  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  1/31/13 1:25:18 AM#1

I'm going to point out features that are common among all TES games that I've played (Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim) and compare them to what ESO is offering. At least then we can have a basis for discussion on whether or not ESO is actually a TES game.

Character Creation

TES Games - Allows you to pick all races, either gender, and allows extensive character customization.

ESO - No word yet as far as I know, but I'm sure it'll have an extensive character customization template. You can't pick Imperial. Elves look Tolkien instead of TES Elves.

Character Progression

TES Games - Free form skill-based progression. Specialize in whichever skills you want, can max out all skills if you want, and can make any manner of character you want.

ESO - Class-based system, although loosely class-based. Not sure if you can use any combination of skills that you want. For example, can you use my favorite combination of skills (Heavy Armor, Swords, Destruction Magic, Restoration Magic, Lockpicking, Mercantile, and Speechcraft)?

Combat

TES Games - Twitch combat for magic, melee, and ranged. No hotbars. No abilities to use other than power attacks.

ESO - Twitch combat as far as I know. Hotbar. Abilities you can use. Elite ability. In other words, they are melding TES and GW2 combat together.

World Exploration and Interaction

TES Games - You can explore the entire map. You can interact with anything in the world. Dungeons and Buildings are instanced. Your character is neutral and has the option, but isn't forced, to join various guilds and factions. 

ESO - You can only explore the lands belonging to the faction you're forced to choose at character creation. The world will be split into zones. The zones will be split up into instances. Dungeons will be instanced. No word as far as I know of buildings being instanced. The commonly known guilds will be in the game and joinable from what I heard. Not sure about the Dark Brotherhood though. Not sure if you can rise to in power in all the various guilds and factions like you can in TES games. You're forced to choose a faction.

Quests and Content

TES Games - You have to interact with NPC's to get quests, there's no icon over their head. Quests aren't linear, nor are they level specific. You don't have to do any quests at all. There are side quests, faction quests, guild quests, and a main storyline. Dungeons are dangerous, dark, keep you on your toes, have traps, and require lockpicking or some magic that can unlock hidden areas and chests.

ESO - No idea if there will be an icon or not above NPC's heads. No idea if quests are level specific and if mobs and etc scale to your level. No idea if quests will be linear or not. There will be public quests like GW2. Dungeons will be public and some will be private ( i think). No idea if they will be run and gun dungeons like in typical themeparks, or if they'll be like TES game dungeons. Will have RvR.

Housing and Mounts

TES Games - You can buy a house and decorate it. You can buy a horse, which can die. 

ESO - No housing. No idea about mounts and if they have them, if they can die. 

 

My Analysis

Some core features have either been changed or not included at all. For example, you cannot choose the Imperial race, cannot explore the entire map, cannot have a house, they modified combat to appeal to the GW2 crowd along with questing, class-based instead of skill-based, and zoned off the world and made multiple copies of the same zone.

IMHO, all those things have made ESO more of a MMO than it is a TES game. Hell, it can barely be called a TES now. There's no reason the developers couldn't of taken all the features and game mechanics from TES series and ported them into the MMO environment. There's no rulebook that says MMO's have to have such and such features and be made a certain way. The only rules for a MMO is that they allow you to play with thousands of other people at any given time, and that the world is persistent.

A lot of people are psyched about ESO because it'll have RvR, a throwback to the DAoC days. As an original DAoC player, I would love a DAoC 2 or another original IP that uses that formula, but as a TES fan, I expect a TES MMORPG to be just like all the other TES games I've played.

This is why I personally am not excited to play ESO. In fact, I'm the opposite of excited when it comes to ESO. ESO may turn out to be a good game, but ESO fans cannot ignore the fact that they took all the features and mechanics found in TES series and either changed them or didn't include them in ESO, thus making it NOT a TES series game.

  Quaiden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/10
Posts: 19

1/31/13 1:49:09 AM#2

Your information is so lacking I feel your opinion is not well developed enough for you to have posted this topic. Let me provide you with a link to a FAQ about the development with full annotations from which you can verify the information stated in the FAQ.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

One you look at this you might want to re-evaluate your postition. The devs have said from the very beginning they do not want an MMORPG TES game but a TES game you can play with your friends.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  1/31/13 1:54:18 AM#3
Originally posted by Quaiden

Your information is so lacking I feel your opinion is not well developed enough for you to have posted this topic. Let me provide you with a link to a FAQ about the development with full annotations from which you can verify the information stated in the FAQ.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

One you look at this you might want to re-evaluate your postition. The devs have said from the very beginning they do not want an MMORPG TES game but a TES game you can play with your friends.

I won't deny that my knowledge of ESO as a whole is lacking, however, can you deny any of the points I've made. Because, if what I have stated is true, which afaik it is, then my analysis is true. 

  Laromuss

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 331

1/31/13 1:54:30 AM#4
Aditionally one thing that every one seems to be forgetting is that the game is not released in any form and working in the industry I know from personal experience that whatever is designed on paper will not always come out the same in the game (for better or for worse) and even when it is implemented there is still so much testing on a mass scale and fine tuning to do to get it to where it is right for release.  So until the game actually releases with a CB or OB everything is speculation and theory.  
  winghaven1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/09
Posts: 94

MMORPG ROCKS!

1/31/13 1:55:53 AM#5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp0ykvotEI

 

Just gonna throw that in here. 

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  1/31/13 2:28:45 AM#6
Originally posted by winghaven1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp0ykvotEI

 

Just gonna throw that in here. 

Thanks for the link. I stopped listening to it after he said it was going to be like WoW where you get to a new area, collect some quests, and the world changes phases as you complete the main story. TES games did not have this and they were fun. There's no reason why ESO needs to do quests the way WoW or even GW2 does them. They can do them just like in previous TES games and still have a very appealing and successful game. He also confirmed my statement about combat being a mesh between GW2 and Skyrim. I hated GW2's combat system and limited abilities, and ESO is stealing the 1 hotbar, pick which abilities you want to use + 1 Elite. Not good at all. We could favorite any number of spells and weapons and change what we were using during combat while we were playing Skyrim, not to mention similar systems in other TES games.

Like I said, the developers are changing the very essense of what TES is to appeal to MMORPG gamers. What they don't understand is that most MMORPG gamers are not only fans of how TES series plays in their other games, but they're also bored with current MMORPG mechanics and features. As I said before, when this genre came to be, there were no rules of what had to be in a MMORPG and what couldn't be in one. Thus giving developers free reign to use their imaginations to create awesome games that were both multiplayer and persistent.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

1/31/13 2:33:59 AM#7

All TES fans pretty much agree that they should just have taken Skyrim and make it an MMO.

Well they didn't. They took WoW+GW2 and mashed some TES skins on it.

Might be an OK game, but not much remaining of what makes the TES series so great.

 

  Siug

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 992

1/31/13 2:46:41 AM#8
Originally posted by tom_gore

All TES fans pretty much agree that they should just have taken Skyrim and make it an MMO.

Well they didn't. They took WoW+GW2 and mashed some TES skins on it.

Might be an OK game, but not much remaining of what makes the TES series so great.

 

Well made Skyrim MMO would have hooked me for years.

  winghaven1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/09
Posts: 94

MMORPG ROCKS!

1/31/13 2:47:08 AM#9
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by winghaven1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp0ykvotEI

 

Just gonna throw that in here. 

Thanks for the link. I stopped listening to it after he said it was going to be like WoW where you get to a new area, collect some quests, and the world changes phases as you complete the main story. TES games did not have this and they were fun. There's no reason why ESO needs to do quests the way WoW or even GW2 does them. They can do them just like in previous TES games and still have a very appealing and successful game. He also confirmed my statement about combat being a mesh between GW2 and Skyrim. I hated GW2's combat system and limited abilities, and ESO is stealing the 1 hotbar, pick which abilities you want to use + 1 Elite. Not good at all. We could favorite any number of spells and weapons and change what we were using during combat while we were playing Skyrim, not to mention similar systems in other TES games.

Like I said, the developers are changing the very essense of what TES is to appeal to MMORPG gamers. What they don't understand is that most MMORPG gamers are not only fans of how TES series plays in their other games, but they're also bored with current MMORPG mechanics and features. As I said before, when this genre came to be, there were no rules of what had to be in a MMORPG and what couldn't be in one. Thus giving developers free reign to use their imaginations to create awesome games that were both multiplayer and persistent.

I'm starting to think that ESO is not the only thing you dislike. It's MMORPGS in general. Maybe that genre isn't for you as you seem to think that it is possible to have single-player rpg elements in a massively multiplayer game. It just doesn't work like that, probably won't for a long time.

  Quaiden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/10
Posts: 19

1/31/13 3:24:06 AM#10
Originally posted by winghaven1
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by winghaven1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp0ykvotEI

 

Just gonna throw that in here. 

Thanks for the link. I stopped listening to it after he said it was going to be like WoW where you get to a new area, collect some quests, and the world changes phases as you complete the main story. TES games did not have this and they were fun. There's no reason why ESO needs to do quests the way WoW or even GW2 does them. They can do them just like in previous TES games and still have a very appealing and successful game. He also confirmed my statement about combat being a mesh between GW2 and Skyrim. I hated GW2's combat system and limited abilities, and ESO is stealing the 1 hotbar, pick which abilities you want to use + 1 Elite. Not good at all. We could favorite any number of spells and weapons and change what we were using during combat while we were playing Skyrim, not to mention similar systems in other TES games.

Like I said, the developers are changing the very essense of what TES is to appeal to MMORPG gamers. What they don't understand is that most MMORPG gamers are not only fans of how TES series plays in their other games, but they're also bored with current MMORPG mechanics and features. As I said before, when this genre came to be, there were no rules of what had to be in a MMORPG and what couldn't be in one. Thus giving developers free reign to use their imaginations to create awesome games that were both multiplayer and persistent.

I'm starting to think that ESO is not the only thing you dislike. It's MMORPGS in general. Maybe that genre isn't for you as you seem to think that it is possible to have single-player rpg elements in a massively multiplayer game. It just doesn't work like that, probably won't for a long time.

I agree with this. I think you beef is more about MMORPGs currenly on the market than this game not being a TES game. As far as not liking the questing and phasing system I am a little confused. Did you not notice the world changing as you played Oblivion and Skyrim as you completed the mainstory line? I have seen no information saying they are doing it like WOW or GW2, despite the above link refering to the games, but everyone I have heard talk about this game who has played the game said it was just like Skyrim and Oblivion in that you could talk to sever different NPCs to get the same quest or you could just stumble on them by find items/locations/etc in the world as you explored. As far as the 1 Hotbar statement, this is to increase the strategy and skill needed to play the game. It is unreasonable to think they could do it like Oblivion/Skyrim as there is no way to pause a server even for a split second for you to change abilities out. They have said they are working on a system to allow you to build sets of skills and equipment so you can change equipment and skill set on the fly as you need to in battle. I am looking forward to seeing that. I also think anyone who wants a NEW game to be like and OLD game with new graphics is a moron. What would be the point of having a new game if nothing changed? Did you cry when they made Skyrim and it was not exactly like Oblivion?

 

In the end if you do not want to play it... DON'T. We won't miss ya I promise. Oh, and they will still make you single player games based in TES universe so you can go play by yourself all you like as that company is already working on the next TES single player game.  (Hum, I just read through this again and I see it might come off a little harse, sorry I do not mean to come off that way. I want everyone to give this game a chance. I will, I hope you will, and I hope we both enjoy it for what it is going to be.)

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2739

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/31/13 3:28:37 AM#11

I'll point out One issue with your analysis.

 

Skyrim features a hotbar too it's just invisible.  Hitting Q to bring up favorites is just as much a hotbar system as one that is shown.  My pesonnal opinion is the MMO version of hotbars is easier and more fluid then "Favoriting" its and abilities to use with the invisible hotbar.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2739

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/31/13 3:30:12 AM#12
Originally posted by tom_gore

All TES fans pretty much agree that they should just have taken Skyrim and make it an MMO.

Well they didn't. They took WoW+GW2 and mashed some TES skins on it.

Might be an OK game, but not much remaining of what makes the TES series so great.

 

What features does it have that are like WoW that make it so bad and not believable?  To me they took the systems that make Skyrim and implemented plenty into the MMO version and left out the things that do not work.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  1/31/13 3:57:53 AM#13
Originally posted by winghaven1
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by winghaven1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLp0ykvotEI

 

Just gonna throw that in here. 

Thanks for the link. I stopped listening to it after he said it was going to be like WoW where you get to a new area, collect some quests, and the world changes phases as you complete the main story. TES games did not have this and they were fun. There's no reason why ESO needs to do quests the way WoW or even GW2 does them. They can do them just like in previous TES games and still have a very appealing and successful game. He also confirmed my statement about combat being a mesh between GW2 and Skyrim. I hated GW2's combat system and limited abilities, and ESO is stealing the 1 hotbar, pick which abilities you want to use + 1 Elite. Not good at all. We could favorite any number of spells and weapons and change what we were using during combat while we were playing Skyrim, not to mention similar systems in other TES games.

Like I said, the developers are changing the very essense of what TES is to appeal to MMORPG gamers. What they don't understand is that most MMORPG gamers are not only fans of how TES series plays in their other games, but they're also bored with current MMORPG mechanics and features. As I said before, when this genre came to be, there were no rules of what had to be in a MMORPG and what couldn't be in one. Thus giving developers free reign to use their imaginations to create awesome games that were both multiplayer and persistent.

I'm starting to think that ESO is not the only thing you dislike. It's MMORPGS in general. Maybe that genre isn't for you as you seem to think that it is possible to have single-player rpg elements in a massively multiplayer game. It just doesn't work like that, probably won't for a long time.

The only two things a MMORPG must have is a persistent world and the ability to play with thousands of other players on the same server. Those are the common two things that all the founding MMORPG's had that defined the genre. Every other feature and mechanic are just ideas the developers have thought of and either put into fruition or copied, mostly the latter. I'm a big fan of EQ lore, DAoC, CoX, and SWG. I like mechanics from several other games too, such as WoW, TSW, SWTOR, and WAR just to name a few. So yes, I'm a fan of the genre.

I'd love to see a DAoC sequel, but no game in the TES series was anything like DAoC. I understand that MMORPG's need a hook to keep people playing to give the game longevity, but that doesn't mean TES should be gutted of its most common features. RvR is a fantastic feature and I'd love to see it in other games, and it could work in ESO too, but that doesn't mean they had to gut or change every TES feature and mechanic to make it work. If you take that as me not being a fan of the genre, then that's your perogative.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/31/13 4:10:40 AM#14
It's not tes6. Tes6 will be another game entirely.

TESO is a mmo within the same universe, but its not a sequel to skyrim and its not supposed to be.

Also be wary of what you wish for, swtor stuck closely to the kotor formula and added a few mmo features like instanced dungeons and mini game pvp, and it turned out to be both an inferior single player game to kotor and a terrible mmo. Uo is nothing like the original ultima rpgs and is regarded as a good mmo.
  Quaiden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/10
Posts: 19

1/31/13 4:13:13 AM#15
Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's not tes6. Tes6 will be another game entirely.

TESO is a mmo within the same universe, but its not a sequel to skyrim and its not supposed to be.

Also be wary of what you wish for, swtor stuck closely to the kotor formula and added a few mmo features like instanced dungeons and mini game pvp, and it turned out to be both an inferior single player game to kotor and a terrible mmo. Uo is nothing like the original ultima rpgs and is regarded as a good mmo.

You said exactly what I was trying to say... but better, shorter, and easier to understand.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2634

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/31/13 4:21:12 AM#16
Originally posted by Quaiden

Your information is so lacking I feel your opinion is not well developed enough for you to have posted this topic. Let me provide you with a link to a FAQ about the development with full annotations from which you can verify the information stated in the FAQ.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

One you look at this you might want to re-evaluate your postition. The devs have said from the very beginning they do not want an MMORPG TES game but a TES game you can play with your friends.

I agree

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  1/31/13 4:32:09 AM#17
Originally posted by ShakyMo
It's not tes6. Tes6 will be another game entirely.

TESO is a mmo within the same universe, but its not a sequel to skyrim and its not supposed to be.

Also be wary of what you wish for, swtor stuck closely to the kotor formula and added a few mmo features like instanced dungeons and mini game pvp, and it turned out to be both an inferior single player game to kotor and a terrible mmo. Uo is nothing like the original ultima rpgs and is regarded as a good mmo.

I kinda disagree about SWTOR, which is what I'm subbed to and playing right now. The bad parts of the game are the parts that Bioware put into the game to try and draw the MMO audience. They didn't stick closely enough to KoToR's features and mechanics. The class stories themselves were good, but they watered down the game with an OMG amount of mundane side quests and restrictive classes. The same way Bethesda is watering down ESO by stealing ideas from GW2 and taking away features and mechanics that's been apart of TES series since Morrowind.

  Nacario

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 217

The real world is roleplay and background noise

1/31/13 4:45:09 AM#18
You dont have sufficient data to maintain analysis level. This is more of a summary of some of the vague info that has been released, mixed with personal opinions. The devil is in the details.
  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  1/31/13 4:55:40 AM#19
Originally posted by Nacario
You dont have sufficient data to maintain analysis level. This is more of a summary of some of the vague info that has been released, mixed with personal opinions. The devil is in the details.

Since this isn't a college dissertation or other important piece of academic work, and since this is a gaming website mostly populated by a younger crowd with (likely) little education, I'm not going to put in the effort or research to write a proper analysis. My OP is clear, my point has been made, and you all get the idea. 

  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1294

1/31/13 5:07:15 AM#20

Is it a TES game? Are you implying TES games can only be single player sandbox type games? If Bethesda decided to develop an RTS in the TES universe would it be a TES game?

The thing is they are not aiming this product at single player sandbox style players. If they did I think it would fail as an MMO. So I'm not expecting it to be like past TES games, I'd expect TES 6 to be like that.

 

People who have played have claimed they FEEL like they are playing Skyrim/Oblivion. As long as I get that feeling to I don't care what they pump out. :)

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