Originally posted by Arglebargle

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

And in that theory... does the Breton share the Mages guild with the Nord and the Elf? You and your enemies constantly cross paths but because its a safe haven, theres no fighting? Thing is... you and your enemies share the same guild? What the... what?

This isnt wow... you dont go deliver quests where the Orc is delivering his... theres no "dalaran"... no safe haven. Want to stay safe? Stay at home. You know... behind your borders. Where THEY cant go.

Plus there will be more than enough pve content shared in cyrodiil as well...

I dont see how this is such a tough concept for ppl that didnt play DAoC... seriously. Is this really that hard? Why are we discussing something that makes perfect sense?

Do you not get that it is an artificial wall?   And folks around here just love artificial walls. 

 

Build your own world, and you can come up with some (strained) excuses for this.  The problem is they want to appeal to Elder Scrolls fans, who kinda expect a somewhat Elder Scrolls consistant world.   They can't let other opposing races wander about, because that would lead to asshat gankers.   They have to have three factions with contiguous land.  They just went and divvied up the map, and tried to come up with an excuse.

 

It's a meta game decision that made things much easier for the developers.  But they are working with an established background, which makes some of their choices rankle.  Doesn't mean I won't play, if it is good.  But it is definitely a fudged set up to fit their defined mechanic.

Its not an "artificial wall"... its a REAL wall (actually it will probably be exactly a wall... with bricks and stones with guards and crap that one shot you if you get near - cant get any more real than that!). And it worked in DAoC... and its still the only mmo ever that got pvp really done right.

I agree, the idea sucks and it was a bad decision, plain and simple. There are more successful games out there than not which (I will go so far as to say) encourage world exploration, regardless of who's territory it is. To take away going into enemy territory is completely robbing the MMORPG community of obtaining a sense of adrenaline and rush.

I don't think the word 'artificial' means what you think it does.....

 

A wall you could sneak across is not artificial.  But that opens up a different can of worms.

 

I don't have issues with the actual mechanic.  Didn't play DAoC (the character customization looked awful), but from what I hear, they did a great job with their PvP system.   Everyone had something they could do.  The problem comes when they try to weld that to something with different expectations.  For me, I don't PvP much, and won't play anything that doesn't allow me to opt out.  So the changes for the factions don't add much value for me.   Except...I do like to play alts, so I will probably end up with one on each side.   If it's enjoyable.

 

The real problem here is that the game is named  THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE and not DARK AGE OF CAMELOT 2.  Different expectations get triggered. 

Pretty much done trying to make my point, if people don't get it they never will and are stuck in their way.

 

Just an observation though, it speaks volumes about the game design when people hardly ever refer to a TES game when trying to justify whay has been done. Lore is refered to, but game mechanics are not used. That is the sad part about this game. It isn't an online TES game but DAOC2 in TES clothing.

To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

Originally posted by UMADBRO

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by PongLenis

Originally posted by FallguyArmy

LOL wow this game is just getting worse by the minute. Lackluster visuals, robotic animations, "soft-lock" target based combat system (which none of the previous TES games had), social networking integration (lol really?), overabundance of lore articles but nothing in regards to gameplay, and now this: faction-locked system. Yep, a bright future indeed!

 

To be fair, we've yet to test the beta to see how the game is really like. But I'll have to lower my expectations drastically...

 Lies, none of what you said is true.  Links to that footage? Ya didn't think so.

Link the footage proving he is false....

 I asked first... get an original thought.

lmao ... made my day :)

Originally posted by Caliburn101

To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

Excelent summary.

Caliburn
1 yeah agree
2 sort of, I'm glad they've thought about the game as a mmo, and not just made a sprpg with some coop features - e.g. swtor. A fantasy eve would have been a better fit, but would sell less as it would frighten all the carebears. I'm glad they've copied from daoc instead of bloody wow like everyone else.
3 yeah
4 a daoc 2 would sell anyway, they don't have to disguise it, likewise so would a ac3 or an eq3. There isn't some grand plan to make daoc 2 but people think daoc was bad or something so we need to disguise it. People who played daoc, loved daoc.
5 no I strongly suspect they will be real walls.
6 err you've made this point twice already
7&8 the fact is - that wouldnt be daoc play, that would be tsw play, remind me again how successful that was pvp wise.
9 this is good, stirs the hornets nest, likewise each side having unique classes.
10 and this Is a problem how? You are moaning about having 3 * the content? Would you rather them do it on the cheap like tsw and gw2 and have everyone share content?


I intend to be vocal about the faction look. Vocal in a "stick to your vision, don't listen to the whiners, these guys turn up every beta trying to turn new games into bloody EQ"

Nope. Just means ill play through it three times

Has faction lock made me lose interest?

 

Not really. I never had much interest to begin with.

After I read the Game Informer article last year, I knew this was not going to be my kind of game.

They said it would take about 120 hours to get to max level, varied by playstyle. It'll be another Everyone is maxing out in the first week, Flash in the pan PVP game. No thanks.

 

Nope.  Faction lock is one of the features I like.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Caliburn101

To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

Excelent summary.

I also want to support this post. It's not that any of us don't like DAoC, because I'm sure we all do. It was my first MMORPG after all, but we expected a TES game, not a DAoC 2 when they announced ESO.

I have not yet lost all interest, but I lost all hope of this becoming an Elder Scroll game inspired by Morrowind and being on par with the Elder Scroll series on offering maximum freedom of choice in gameplay.

I'm still interested to see what they've got to show us when the game will hit the stores. I can't loose interest in some game just because there's this 1 feature that I find bad. I knew from the begining it'll be an mmorpg and with that in mind I expected them to make faction locks and other mmorpgish crappy adjustments. It would be great if your actions and choices would actually determine what faction will you part with but I guess they had something else in mind and I'll just have to wait and see since it's harder to make an mmorpg which would give you the absolute freedom like you have in morrowind.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Caliburn101

To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

Excelent summary.

I also want to support this post. It's not that any of us don't like DAoC, because I'm sure we all do. It was my first MMORPG after all, but we expected a TES game, not a DAoC 2 when they announced ESO.

Originally posted by Astraeis
I have not yet lost all interest, but I lost all hope of this becoming an Elder Scroll game inspired by Morrowind and being on par with the Elder Scroll series on offering maximum freedom of choice in gameplay.

Definitely agree with both of these. I haven't played DAoC, but it sounds to be mostly a PvP game. I never played a TES game until after I heard about ESO. 

I hear alot of PvP focused people and DAoC fans screaming, "The game is perfect because it copies what DAoC started"

I hear alot of PvE focused people and TES fans screaming, "NOO! get DAoC out of my TES game and where is my freedom and choice??!?!?!"

Well from someone who hasn't played either DAoC or TES, but is a huge MMO player starting from Everquest to Matrix Online, WoW, Aion, Rift, Guild Wars, SWTOR, EVE Online, Lineage....I mean christ I could go on, but the point is I'm almost strickly an MMO gamer.

From my point of view I stand more with the TES fans in that my interest is almost gone for this game. Not for the races locked to factions, but factions locked to certain zones. People speak of WoW PvP being terribly instanced but having to only PvP in Cyrodil is the same exact thing just on a larger scale. An MMO is supposed to be MASSIVE and as such it is a horrible slap in the face when you cut up the world into little zones.

Also, why are PvPers mostly the ones who are loving the zone and faction locks? So you honestly feel that factions being locked fits into a TES universe or does it just help your PvP to be better because it's been tried, tested, and true in DAoC?

I dont see a balance here in PvE and PvP, what I am seeing is this to be a PvP game with PvE sprinkled on the side. That worked out so well with Warhammer:Age of Reckoning(vomit). 

Very sad that this will not be as revitalizing to the MMO genre as I previously thought. Instead it seems the MMO renaissance will have to wait until Project Titan.

Faction lock puts ESO in line with all the other MMOs out there, nothing exceptional here anymore. If I think this through I guess I have no interest in another SWTOR.

Yep, took this game righ toff my radar, It will have to do something really amazing in the game play streams for me to pick it up.

 

Otherwise this is star wars 2.0

Hello everyone,

 

I can understand why faction lock is a major disappointment for TES players. It puts a limit on your freedom, and even though it makes complete sense from a PVP standpoint, it ruins a uniqueness that TES has established in its series. But I would like to think there is a middle ground, and I apologize if someone else has mentioned this already...

 

Why not allow a quest/reputation grinding in order to join a new faction? I mean.. everyone wins then, right? You could technically explore all the territories, do all the unique quests, etc - just at the expense of being exiled from the alliance you betrayed. For example, you like the Ebonheart pact, but your favorite character is a Khajiit and you want to explore the entire world. You explore all of the The Aldmeri Dominion, after that you move onto The Daggerfall Covenant, and finally reaching your final destination of The Ebonheart Pact. Yes, you are exiled (meaning you cannot take the quest to get back into said faction), but you have explored all that you have wanted and ended up in the faction you have wanted. This is a rough idea of what I am trying to explain, but I hope you can paint the picture yourself.

 

This is simple brain storming, and kind of stealing the idea from other games, but I hope the developers can think of something to make everyone happy while still maintaining their grips on PVP and general gameplay balance.

The Elder Scrolls series has always been about freedom. Do whatever you like, whereever you want. Locking in factions is taking away from this freedom, and implementing some sort of faction betrayal cannot be a solution to this fundamental flaw.

- faction lock is bad

- classes are bad

- no or limited respec are bad

I love RvR but i prefer Aliance vs Aliance and freedom of character creation and switching it everytime.. no game at this time on market with this options... only TSW is close but there is not real PVP and aliance system.. and cannot switch society :(