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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » WHYYYY LEVELS WHYYYY

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128 posts found
  Tithenon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 106

1/24/13 10:57:16 AM#61

While I agree that levels are now passe, and that a better system of individual skill, ability, and attribute increases should be used, all of the Elder Scrolls games have used levels, character, item, ability, whatever.  These have not been traditional, however, and I don't believe they will be traditional in ESO, either.  Most games have you grind out XP, and THEN you level and get access to additional skills, abilities, etc., while the Elder Scrolls games have, before, used a system of individual skills and abilities leveling on their own and, when you have enough levels for the individual items, then you move upward in level and continue with skills and abilities.  The passive increases model they have used in the past I have found to be far more rewarding than purchasing skills, abilities, and attribute increases, and I don't have to go to a trainer for those.

 

Hopefully, ESO is going with the same system used in previous Elder Scrolls games, as passive increases through use makes a lot more sense, and allows one to build a character they want to build, rather than one directed solely by the game.

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1640

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

1/24/13 10:59:19 AM#62
The AAA developers spit in your mouth and you beg for more. "Mmmmmm Loogies! Thank you my benevolent masters!"

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 11:03:04 AM#63
Levels are an integral part of RPG and MMOs. It's why the game works. Take away levels and you have some god awful amalgamation of a MOBA MMO/RPG where nothing matters and fights are decided on who has the best macro ability. I would suggest anyone tired of leveling in video games, take a break, play a game that doesn't have levels. You'll feel better when you come back. It just sounds like you are tired of the genre is all.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  FallguyArmy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 80

1/24/13 11:04:40 AM#64

Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

 

"When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

 

If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

  drgran

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/14/06
Posts: 190

1/24/13 11:09:52 AM#65

I just hope they have a system in where you have to level skill a sword instead of picking it up and instant expert on it.

WoW had that sort of thing when they first came out. you leveled all weapons. if you picked up something you had to level it up to get the skill.

Same could happen with everything else. Did affect the actual Character level but affected how strong you could be with a weapon, or not.

ASUS G74sx
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  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 11:11:11 AM#66
Originally posted by FallguyArmy

Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

 

"When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

 

If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  FallguyArmy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 80

1/24/13 11:33:19 AM#67
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by FallguyArmy

Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

 

"When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

 

If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

I don't know either. It seems like developers aren't taking risks to do anything new or are just being lazy, while gamers are just being gullible and feeding (money) to the same crap over and over again. 

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2435

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

1/24/13 11:37:34 AM#68
I don't really mind the levels, since with the end game pvp, it seems there's more to do that sounds similar to DAOC Realm Ranks.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 12:02:31 PM#69
Originally posted by FallguyArmy
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by FallguyArmy

Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

 

"When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

 

If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

I don't know either. It seems like developers aren't taking risks to do anything new or are just being lazy, while gamers are just being gullible and feeding (money) to the same crap over and over again. 

Developers have taken plenty of risks, look at the oversatured MMO market, and most of the unique ones with "new ideas" have gone the way of the dodo, for good reasons. Innovation is one thing, but trying to remake a genre is waste of time and effort. If people want a single player rpg experience, play one.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  FallguyArmy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 80

1/24/13 1:09:23 PM#70
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by FallguyArmy
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by FallguyArmy

Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

 

"When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

 

If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

I don't know either. It seems like developers aren't taking risks to do anything new or are just being lazy, while gamers are just being gullible and feeding (money) to the same crap over and over again. 

Developers have taken plenty of risks, look at the oversatured MMO market, and most of the unique ones with "new ideas" have gone the way of the dodo, for good reasons. Innovation is one thing, but trying to remake a genre is waste of time and effort. If people want a single player rpg experience, play one.

Risks leading to oversaturated MMO market? Hardly. If they took risks then we would definitely have more notable games to talk about. Many games have turned out to be "WoW" clones instead. As annoying as that phrase sounds, there's some truth behind it. It also seems like the developers are just trying to one-up each other with a feature or two to grab people's attention in hopes to get a piece of the pie. There's no risk involved. People are trying to go the easy way out. Sadly, the fault also goes to the gaming communities that buy into all of this.

 

The same can be said for single-player games as well, though I have to admit thankfully some of the ideas are much easier to implement in a single-player game than it is in an MMORPG. On that note, my friends and I have recently returned to playing some single-player titles because we're just disillusioned by the downhill trend that MMORPGs have fallen into. And we've played MMOs for almost 10 years mind you, so hardly considered as newbies.

 

TL;DR - Right now, it seems like the genre is all about quantity and no longer about quality.

 

Also you said that "trying to remake a genre is waste of time and effort". That's something a man would say when he's given up. Maybe I'm a bit more optimistic than most, but I believe that remaking a genre is not a waste of time and effort, and in fact, it's probably needed even more so nowadays seeing how stale and stagnant the MMO market has become. 

  SlyLoK

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 985

1/24/13 1:21:25 PM#71
Originally posted by MyTabbycat

You really should listen to the interview with Paul Sage as he touches on this some.

Yes, you level up with experience. Once you hit level 50, you will stop leveling but you are only about 1/3rd of the way finished with progressing your character.

Every weapon you use, every piece of armor you wear etc has its own leveling. As you use it, you become more proficient and unlock new abilities. When you are level 50, you continue to work on your skills to unlock new abilities to make your character more versatile. The more versatile your character, the more you are able to adapt to and handle different situations in the game.

This is all that needs to be said really.

Its going to have both!

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1783

1/24/13 1:22:46 PM#72
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Levels are an integral part of RPG and MMOs. It's why the game works. Take away levels and you have some god awful amalgamation of a MOBA MMO/RPG where nothing matters and fights are decided on who has the best macro ability. I would suggest anyone tired of leveling in video games, take a break, play a game that doesn't have levels. You'll feel better when you come back. It just sounds like you are tired of the genre is all.

Exactly. And not only. Never heard about level-less game. What would that be? There are ALWAYS levels, does not matter if we call them "levels", "skills", ... or whatever you like under the sun. Always. And there will always be classes. Does not matter if you must select at start or change later "build". As altholic I do not care. Love that.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/24/13 1:30:34 PM#73
Originally posted by jimdandy26
What? Previous ES games have levels too.

 With SCALEABLE content, not with railed zones.

No amount of talking is going to change the fact that this is nothing more than DaoC 2 with TES skins because few give a rats behind about another DaoC game, so they are hoping they can get more people to play it just because it has the TES name.

Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas and then taking a beloved IP in hopes its popularity will mask its blandness. This is so lacking in TES even the damn ELVES WERE CHANGED, where are the dang ALIEN looking ugly arse elves?

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/24/13 1:33:31 PM#74
Who said the game had railed zones?

Daoc didn't for a start.
  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 1:34:16 PM#75
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by jimdandy26
What? Previous ES games have levels too.

 With SCALEABLE content, not with railed zones.

No amount of talking is going to change the fact that this is nothing more than DaoC 2 with TES skins because few give a rats behind about another DaoC game, so they are hoping they can get more people to play it just because it has the TES name.

Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas and then taking a beloved IP in hopes its popularity will mask its blandness. This is so lacking in TES even the damn ELVES WERE CHANGED, where are the dang ALIEN looking ugly arse elves?

BROAD GENERALIZATIONS! CAPITALS TO EMPHASIZE NON VALID POINTS! NOBODY WANTS IT BECAUSE I DON'T!

Just go play Skyrim, you won't be happy with ESO no matter how it turns out, because it's an MMO, and I guess that genre is used up. Not trying to fling crap, but at this point it's just opinion vs opinion, facts were abandoned upon login to this website.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/24/13 1:35:01 PM#76
Also yay for new ideas like arena.

I would much rather play a daoc 2 than yet another bloody wow clone.
  FallguyArmy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 80

1/24/13 1:38:06 PM#77
Originally posted by jtcgs
[...]Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas[...]

The sad part about that is that companies today STILL use the old outdated systems, only a few have attempted to break out...

 

If there's one thing I do have to agree though, TESO failed hard when I heard news about some new social network integration system that they worked real hard to implement. That was like the only "gameplay" related feature I've heard amongst all the stuff they talked about, which was mainly lore. And of all the features mentioned, it had to be something so pointless too...

 

I'm wary of TESO's development. I'm picturing a similar fiasco to Final Fantasy XIV, which I truly, wholeheartedly hope won't be the case (since I do like TES franchise), but at this rate it's heading that direction.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/24/13 2:07:18 PM#78
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by jimdandy26
What? Previous ES games have levels too.

 With SCALEABLE content, not with railed zones.

No amount of talking is going to change the fact that this is nothing more than DaoC 2 with TES skins because few give a rats behind about another DaoC game, so they are hoping they can get more people to play it just because it has the TES name.

Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas and then taking a beloved IP in hopes its popularity will mask its blandness. This is so lacking in TES even the damn ELVES WERE CHANGED, where are the dang ALIEN looking ugly arse elves?

BROAD GENERALIZATIONS! CAPITALS TO EMPHASIZE NON VALID POINTS! NOBODY WANTS IT BECAUSE I DON'T!

Just go play Skyrim, you won't be happy with ESO no matter how it turns out, because it's an MMO, and I guess that genre is used up. Not trying to fling crap, but at this point it's just opinion vs opinion, facts were abandoned upon login to this website.

 You are right, making a post with actual details is making broad generalizations and repling to it with no refutes other than YOU ARE WRONG OMGZ GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE...isnt.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  pb1285n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 506

1/24/13 3:09:27 PM#79
The freedom in the elder scrolls series really came from the scaled content, but would that actually work in an MMO?

Besides that I don't believe we have enough information to get angry about. The quote you guys are complaining about is all PR speak. Most games don't "open up" at end game, that's just all in our head. Most MMOs have plenty of content leading up to the level cap, we are just so focused on the vertical progression most of us don't take the time to enjoy it. You can argue that the content isn't enjoyable until you reach the end game but we don't have enough information about specific content to make that assumption about this game. What we know?

The game won't contain traditional quest hubs, you will pick up quests as you adventure - sounds a lot like an ES game
The game will contain a main story arc you can follow - sounds like an ES game
The game contains a standard leveling system as well as ways to level your weapons and armor - like is ES games
A more active combat system with the ability to actively block with your shield - see above

Yes there are changes being made to make the game work in a multiplayer setting but so far a lot of it seems to be staying true to past Elder Scrolls games.
  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/24/13 3:13:47 PM#80
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by jimdandy26
What? Previous ES games have levels too.

 With SCALEABLE content, not with railed zones.

No amount of talking is going to change the fact that this is nothing more than DaoC 2 with TES skins because few give a rats behind about another DaoC game, so they are hoping they can get more people to play it just because it has the TES name.

Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas and then taking a beloved IP in hopes its popularity will mask its blandness. This is so lacking in TES even the damn ELVES WERE CHANGED, where are the dang ALIEN looking ugly arse elves?

BROAD GENERALIZATIONS! CAPITALS TO EMPHASIZE NON VALID POINTS! NOBODY WANTS IT BECAUSE I DON'T!

Just go play Skyrim, you won't be happy with ESO no matter how it turns out, because it's an MMO, and I guess that genre is used up. Not trying to fling crap, but at this point it's just opinion vs opinion, facts were abandoned upon login to this website.

 You are right, making a post with actual details is making broad generalizations and repling to it with no refutes other than YOU ARE WRONG OMGZ GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE...isnt.

There was no part of your post with detail, other than "wahhhh I don't like this feature". The truth is a painful cruel beast. At least my suggestion was a solution to the problem other than just more crying because they arent designing the game for you.

 

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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