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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » What the hell is going on with the anti holy trinity lately

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166 posts found
  loulaki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 842

12/20/12 6:42:54 PM#81

well the lack of holy trinity works awesome for GW2, the OP who calls it failfest its his opinion .

 

its good at TESO they dont look at these mechanics, just if they left ahead and their static battles .. : /

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2082

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

1/03/13 12:33:40 PM#82
Zenimax have said TESO offers the possibility to specialise and be something like a tank or a healer, but that it's not as simple as just the holy trinity. So it may be they'll offer other roles than just tanking, healing and DPSing. Crowd control and buffing could be additional options. But when specialisation is possible, it'll probably be the optimal thing to do on some occasions. At any rate, I'm glad they don't go the route of GW2 because I really like to specialise my characters.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

1/03/13 12:42:05 PM#83

New games focus more on physical blocking and dodging, rather than taunting and stats with % block chance. This allow more freedoom and skill>stats. You can still tank but not in the same way, healing is still there and dps will always be there.

 

  lindhsky

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/07
Posts: 114

1/03/13 12:51:28 PM#84

I agree, I am not fan of the GW2 system either. I rather see they do like they did in RIFT. Every class could spec to be a tank if they want to.

I like the system were DPS:ers have to think about how much damage they do initially and who they are damaging and the tank needs to gather mobs and create aggro.

I understand that new games want to come up with new systems and new changes because that is what they think will sell the game now in the era when new games come out all the time. But this is not a system that I don't want them to change. I like that different players have different types of roles.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1876

1/03/13 12:56:23 PM#85

The solution to a no trinity/no aggro game is to build it like an action game.

Mobs never auto attack. Every battle should be about positioning and blocking or evading attacks. Auto-attacking mobs is why we need tanks, if mobs performed "moves" which showed up in some way be it exaggerated animation or circle on ground , then we could have a no aggro game.

Those fights in GW2 that are the most fun are against veteran mobs that spam their special attack so that you have to manage your abilities, find ways to not get hit and take down the mob. The moment a mob auto-attacks, someone has to take the damage. And that's why not having a trinity sucks in a game of auto attacks.

Look at DMC, GoW, NG, Demon's Souls. They're not built around auto attacking mobs, they're about telegraphed moves and attacks that you can avoid.

So maybe everyone should start making noise about auto-attacking because that's the real culprit.

  kurosenshu

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 46

1/03/13 1:07:08 PM#86

I'm sorry but I for one hope to see more games follow a.net's vision of no crappy holy trinity.

hahahaha I have to laugh at this line: Guild Wars 2 Failfest jajajajaj in you dreams buddy !

The trinity is just 100% predictable patterns and a sure fire way to control the enemy 100% of the time 

that is lame and boring gameplay to me, alwayss knowing how and when is boring, predictability is one of the major issues in the mmorpg genre and it's one of the main reasons the genre is so stagnant.

There's no surprise, no creativity no sense of danger for anyone else but the tank in holy trinity.

Not to mention the felling that if you don't play a tank or healer you don't really matter much at all.

DPS is kicked out of party very easily but no one would dare kick the main tank or the main healer oh no that'd be a sin, which leads to  entitlement, ego issues and bad community.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/03/13 1:19:24 PM#87
No trinity and no agro are separate things

You can drop agro rules and still have trinity by making tanks the primary crowd controllers
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/03/13 1:20:19 PM#88
Which from what I understand is what TESO is doing.
  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/03/13 1:25:01 PM#89
Originally posted by Axxar
Zenimax have said TESO offers the possibility to specialise and be something like a tank or a healer, but that it's not as simple as just the holy trinity. So it may be they'll offer other roles than just tanking, healing and DPSing. Crowd control and buffing could be additional options. But when specialisation is possible, it'll probably be the optimal thing to do on some occasions. At any rate, I'm glad they don't go the route of GW2 because I really like to specialise my characters.

The changes to the trinity for TESO is going to come from the lack of an aggro table. Everyone is equally likely to get attacked. With a system like that a pure tank or a pure healer could not survive. It's closer to the GW2 route than you think.  

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2082

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

1/03/13 1:30:50 PM#90
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Axxar
Zenimax have said TESO offers the possibility to specialise and be something like a tank or a healer, but that it's not as simple as just the holy trinity. So it may be they'll offer other roles than just tanking, healing and DPSing. Crowd control and buffing could be additional options. But when specialisation is possible, it'll probably be the optimal thing to do on some occasions. At any rate, I'm glad they don't go the route of GW2 because I really like to specialise my characters.

The changes to the trinity for TESO is going to come from the lack of an aggro table. Everyone is equally likely to get attacked. With a system like that a pure tank or a pure healer could not survive. It's closer to the GW2 route than you think.  

I very much doubt that will be the case for TESO.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/03/13 1:32:02 PM#91
Nah you will tank through crowd control, just like you do in daoc and war pvp.
  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/03/13 1:33:41 PM#92
Originally posted by Axxar
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Axxar
Zenimax have said TESO offers the possibility to specialise and be something like a tank or a healer, but that it's not as simple as just the holy trinity. So it may be they'll offer other roles than just tanking, healing and DPSing. Crowd control and buffing could be additional options. But when specialisation is possible, it'll probably be the optimal thing to do on some occasions. At any rate, I'm glad they don't go the route of GW2 because I really like to specialise my characters.

The changes to the trinity for TESO is going to come from the lack of an aggro table. Everyone is equally likely to get attacked. With a system like that a pure tank or a pure healer could not survive. It's closer to the GW2 route than you think.  

I very much doubt that will be the case for TESO.

Considering they stated it was I don't know why you would doubt it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion lol. Re-read the interviews and specifically search "The Elder Scrolls Online, No Aggro system". It will bring up relevant articles and interviews. 

 

They've even said something along the lines of "Healers will need to be stealthy and sneaky to heal". 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/03/13 1:43:26 PM#93
I expect tanks to have pvp tanking facilities like guard & hold the line from warhammer,coupled with collision detection and tanks been the primary crowd controllers. But not have taunts, and nothave + agro moves as there is no agro table.

You would tank by pushing a mob into the scenery, using hold the line style abilities to prevent ranged damage to the party, using guard to take damage off the currently attacked party member and using stuns, knock backs and pulls and what have you to herd up mobs that run for other players.

Entirely doable, pvpers have tanked like this for years. Pveers don't need an archaic threat table to be able to tank.
  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

1/03/13 2:00:27 PM#94

Homogenization of classes is what made WoW boring. Not trinity, but the dillution of trinity (+ the required supporting roles like buffers, debuffers, CC, etc). GW2 just exacerbates that - it's just horrendously simplistic.

I guess nobody remembers hunter pulling, caster tanking, HARD cc upkeep, dispelling etc etc and that's just WoW's "boring" trinity, which many of you seem to think is tank/healer and THAT'S IT.

http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2082

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

1/03/13 2:25:08 PM#95
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Axxar
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Axxar
Zenimax have said TESO offers the possibility to specialise and be something like a tank or a healer, but that it's not as simple as just the holy trinity. So it may be they'll offer other roles than just tanking, healing and DPSing. Crowd control and buffing could be additional options. But when specialisation is possible, it'll probably be the optimal thing to do on some occasions. At any rate, I'm glad they don't go the route of GW2 because I really like to specialise my characters.

The changes to the trinity for TESO is going to come from the lack of an aggro table. Everyone is equally likely to get attacked. With a system like that a pure tank or a pure healer could not survive. It's closer to the GW2 route than you think.  

I very much doubt that will be the case for TESO.

Considering they stated it was I don't know why you would doubt it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion lol. Re-read the interviews and specifically search "The Elder Scrolls Online, No Aggro system". It will bring up relevant articles and interviews. 

 

They've even said something along the lines of "Healers will need to be stealthy and sneaky to heal". 

Considering they've stated want to let us specialise into certain roles I don't see why you wouldn't doubt it, but I suppose you're entitled your opinion, lol. There's an interview where they state it'll be possible to be a stealthy healer, but I haven't heard of one where it said it would be required.

Also what Shaky said.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  IIIcurrier

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/05
Posts: 109

1/03/13 2:29:20 PM#96
Because holy trinity is fake, it's an excuse for a lack of proper class and skill mechanics.
  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

1/03/13 3:10:34 PM#97
Originally posted by Axxar
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Axxar
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Axxar
Zenimax have said TESO offers the possibility to specialise and be something like a tank or a healer, but that it's not as simple as just the holy trinity. So it may be they'll offer other roles than just tanking, healing and DPSing. Crowd control and buffing could be additional options. But when specialisation is possible, it'll probably be the optimal thing to do on some occasions. At any rate, I'm glad they don't go the route of GW2 because I really like to specialise my characters.

The changes to the trinity for TESO is going to come from the lack of an aggro table. Everyone is equally likely to get attacked. With a system like that a pure tank or a pure healer could not survive. It's closer to the GW2 route than you think.  

I very much doubt that will be the case for TESO.

Considering they stated it was I don't know why you would doubt it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion lol. Re-read the interviews and specifically search "The Elder Scrolls Online, No Aggro system". It will bring up relevant articles and interviews. 

 

They've even said something along the lines of "Healers will need to be stealthy and sneaky to heal". 

Considering they've stated want to let us specialise into certain roles I don't see why you wouldn't doubt it, but I suppose you're entitled your opinion, lol. There's an interview where they state it'll be possible to be a stealthy healer, but I haven't heard of one where it said it would be required.

Also what Shaky said.

The thing is I agree with Shaky as well. The Holy Trinity isn't what he's talking about though believe it or not. You guys are actually talking about what existed before the trinity. The trinity is exactly what it says. 3 classes that are needed to do much of anything. 

Tank, Heal, DPS

 

There use to be a wider variety or roles. Things have devolved into the trinity and the trinity is what most are against. No one is really against different roles. 

 

The Tank can't simply grab all the aggro from mobs and have the healer keep him/her alive while the rest kill everything off due to the lack of the aggro system that the trinity relies on. 

Don't mistake that with me saying there will be no roles, there will always be roles, but TESO should have a lot more diversity and will need it to truly handle the lack of an aggro table. 

 

  Dragonantis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/16/10
Posts: 971

1/03/13 3:20:26 PM#98
I have nothing against the Holy Trinity but I think its becoming a ball and chain slowing the progression of MMO's, it should be an optional tactic but not a requirement for success in games, instead of the games mechanics being built around it.
  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

1/03/13 3:22:08 PM#99

GW2 didn't get rid of the trinity.  It got rid of each character being stuck in a static trinity-based role.  Once a tank, always a tank.  How boring is that?

 

I prefer something a little more ambiguous and fluid.  I prefer to play my character the way I want to play it, and play it according to the situation, not some developers idea of what I should be doing.  I also prefer to not stand around LOOKING FOR HEALER over and over so I can finish that last dungeon.

 

I've seen people complain about how GW2 doesn't have enough skills for your character.  Interesting since those skills can be used in a variety of situations.  Yet, using the same skills over and over, but having more to choose from while performing the same tasks over and over is just loads of fun compared to GW2.  Yeah, ok.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  vandal5627

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/04/12
Posts: 364

1/03/13 3:27:49 PM#100
Trinity or no trinity is just a mechanic.  It's not about having them or not but about how you implement either or in your game.  Both can be fun and enjoyable.
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