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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » How the Developers are out of touch.....

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124 posts found
  Bl4ck3nD

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/10
Posts: 115

12/17/12 11:30:42 PM#41
It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.
  DollMighty8313

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 182

".........Me love you long time?"

12/18/12 3:38:32 PM#42
Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.

That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

12/18/12 3:43:37 PM#43

Where is the pause button? Not ES unless it has one.

  Eyrothath

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/08
Posts: 198

12/18/12 3:53:42 PM#44
When I think of a Elder Scrolls MMO I think of "Skyrim, but online.." So therefore, things like Instances, Battlegrounds, etc.. Do not appeal to me.. I think FFA PVP would be just fine in a Elder Scrolls MMO though, I can imagine doing all the things to players that I do in PVE in the Elder Scrolls games, backstabbing my ally's and looting them dry, etc.. I don't like the idea of factions either.. The factions should be the guilds in the game.. "Warrior's Guild, Mages Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, etc.." That you join later on down the road when you decide what your character is gonna be, I am all for things like that and then backstabbing my friends and looting them dry.. That's what I think of when I think of an Elder Scrolls MMO..
  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

12/18/12 3:58:58 PM#45
Originally posted by Eyrothath
When I think of a Elder Scrolls MMO I think of "Skyrim, but online.." So therefore, things like Instances, Battlegrounds, etc.. Do not appeal to me.. I think FFA PVP would be just fine in a Elder Scrolls MMO though, I can imagine doing all the things to players that I do in PVE in the Elder Scrolls games, backstabbing my ally's and looting them dry, etc.. I don't like the idea of factions either.. The factions should be the guilds in the game.. "Warrior's Guild, Mages Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, etc.." That you join later on down the road when you decide what your character is gonna be, I am all for things like that and then backstabbing my friends and looting them dry.. That's what I think of when I think of an Elder Scrolls MMO..

When I think of Skyrim I think of boring, lifeless, void of anyone but myself world filled with NPC that are really stupid. No PvP at all because its only me there, alone and bored.

When has an NPC killed and looted you dry when you were playing Skyrim?

  Eyrothath

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/08
Posts: 198

12/18/12 4:44:16 PM#46
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by Eyrothath
When I think of a Elder Scrolls MMO I think of "Skyrim, but online.." So therefore, things like Instances, Battlegrounds, etc.. Do not appeal to me.. I think FFA PVP would be just fine in a Elder Scrolls MMO though, I can imagine doing all the things to players that I do in PVE in the Elder Scrolls games, backstabbing my ally's and looting them dry, etc.. I don't like the idea of factions either.. The factions should be the guilds in the game.. "Warrior's Guild, Mages Guild, The Dark Brotherhood, etc.." That you join later on down the road when you decide what your character is gonna be, I am all for things like that and then backstabbing my friends and looting them dry.. That's what I think of when I think of an Elder Scrolls MMO..

When I think of Skyrim I think of boring, lifeless, void of anyone but myself world filled with NPC that are really stupid. No PvP at all because its only me there, alone and bored.

When has an NPC killed and looted you dry when you were playing Skyrim?

What I am saying is that the players should fill the void in a Elder Scrolls MMO where you would normally find NPC's.. Think about it, if you're making a Elder Scrolls game and you want not just PVP in the game but freedom of play, is the feature inside the game, we have a massive amount of freedom of play the Elder Scrolls games and more so in skyrim, it is not all so restricted like in most MMO's, a Elder Scrolls MMO should be without those same restrictions, therefore, it would have PVP but that is not the feature.. I am sick of hearing about "PVP vs PVE" in a MMO, has anyone considered having "Roleplaying" as the feature instead? True roleplayers play MMO's for the social experience, for an interactive world where they don't have to be themselves, where they can play as someone who is different from them, sandbox games are perfect for that group of players because they offer more choices for your character and more possibilities, the more realism there is in a online game, the more roleplayers it will attract.. That's why many of us love TES, you are immersed in that kind of envrionment, weather you realize it or not, you are roleplaying...

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

12/18/12 6:06:10 PM#47

The comments about factions and guilds being a better option is where I thought the game should ahve gone. Start off with no faction ties and through play, and choice of which guild you choose, fighters, mages, thieves or Assassins guild, you then fight for whichever regional faction you wanted. Bottom line though, guild (or in this case faction) choice was always an option, the freedom to choose how to play your character and which guild to choose was always a major  part of the game in my eyes...perhaps the biggest 'Choice' and any of the TES games.

The fact that you are a faction by birth rather then choice is just a mechanic used to force people into their 3 faction PvP game design. And even though TESO is an MMO PvP isn't really a selling point IMO except to people who could care less waht the game is about but who just want to play a game. It makes the decision to have 3 fixed factions into a souless MMO feature and to be honest an uneccessary one. There are many ways it could have been done, the best would probably have been like it was done in Skyrim where you perform a series of missions for your chosen faction but never have to make the choice if you didn't want to do so.

But the head designer was lauded for his design of DAOC PvP and Damn me if he is just not going to use the same idea in this game, regardless of if it fits, if it removes player freedom or if it just goes against one of the main principles and history of the many years of TES games. He is right though....right? It worked before so lets rehash the idea, use a popular IP and change the name from DAOC to TESO.!

  Bl4ck3nD

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/10
Posts: 115

12/18/12 6:12:30 PM#48
Originally posted by dollada06
Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.

That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.

but it doesn't have the free form TES play which is I believe makes the game, it's just WoW with a TES skin

  Laromuss

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 331

12/18/12 6:15:03 PM#49
Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
Originally posted by dollada06
Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD
It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.

That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.

but it doesn't have the free form TES play which is I believe makes the game, it's just WoW with a TES skin

elaborate on free form?  Casue from what I"ve seen and read on TESO it is open ended, exploration, classes, questing etc.  

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/18/12 6:54:10 PM#50


Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD

Originally posted by dollada06

Originally posted by Bl4ck3nD It's not really a TES game, It might have the name but that's all it has in common with a TES game, I won't be touching this with a 20ft barge pole.
That is simply untrue.  It has a plethora of things in common with it.  The characters, NPC's, world, lore, and much much more.  I'm not tryig to sound like a TES propagandist, but you are simply not right in your statement.
but it doesn't have the free form TES play which is I believe makes the game, it's just WoW with a TES skin



Why, exactly, do you think that? There is very little information available on what mechanics will be used in the game, and even less information on how those mechanics will be implemented. The game will likely have quests, but will they be WoW style quest hubs or will they by Skyrim style quests?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  MyTabbycat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 304

12/18/12 7:25:12 PM#51
The devs have said that quest givers won't have exclamation marks over their heads. You actually have to go out in the world and talk to the NPC's to find out if they have any quests for you to do. So in that sense, questing will not be at all like WoW. Also, using the compass is optional. It will work like it does in Skyrim - pointing out points of interest as you get closer to them.
  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

12/19/12 9:12:05 AM#52
Originally posted by MyTabbycat
The devs have said that quest givers won't have exclamation marks over their heads. You actually have to go out in the world and talk to the NPC's to find out if they have any quests for you to do. So in that sense, questing will not be at all like WoW. Also, using the compass is optional. It will work like it does in Skyrim - pointing out points of interest as you get closer to them.

Except if I am playing a Breton then that POI that shows up when I am on the border of Skyrim will be permanently out of reach as a Breton cannot enter Skyrim due to hardcoded faction restrictions on where you can go on the map.

There are 10 teritories (1 of them PvP) so any character you create will be able to explore their 3 faction lands and the pvp area or 40% of the entire game world. If you don't enjoy PvP then that is 30% of the game will be unavailable to you unless you create another character in another faction. Currently you will never be able to see HighRock and the teeth of the world on the same character.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3286

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

12/19/12 9:44:09 AM#53


Originally posted by lizardbones
... I think the mega server thing is a fine solution. We're never going to get back to servers where everyone knows each other, so we may as well be on servers that get us near the people we know.

I think I'm missing something here. This doesn't make sense to me.

You, and your friends, decide to play a game. You look into the game and see they have servers to choose from. You each roll on an agreed upon server. How does one NOT find their friends now?

Or how about this... You are playing a game which has servers and you cajole a friend or two or three to join in the fun. I am pretty sure you let them know what server you are playing on before they dig into the game.

In another scenario, you alone choose a game to play and it has servers to select from. You roll your character and start playing. Along the way you make some friends. And maybe some enemies, too :) Again, how does one NOT find their friends on the same server as they are?

Am I missing something here about mege-servers? Why on earth would I need software to decide what players are "best for me?" If I feel like heavy duty combat because I had a bad day at work, does this mega-server find others who are looking to kick ass and take names? How about a nice relaxing session of crafting? Does the same thing happen? What happens to the people on my friends list? Will we ALWAYS be on the same server like we were in games of old?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/19/12 10:26:27 AM#54


Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by lizardbones
... I think the mega server thing is a fine solution. We're never going to get back to servers where everyone knows each other, so we may as well be on servers that get us near the people we know.

I think I'm missing something here. This doesn't make sense to me.

You, and your friends, decide to play a game. You look into the game and see they have servers to choose from. You each roll on an agreed upon server. How does one NOT find their friends now?

Or how about this... You are playing a game which has servers and you cajole a friend or two or three to join in the fun. I am pretty sure you let them know what server you are playing on before they dig into the game.

In another scenario, you alone choose a game to play and it has servers to select from. You roll your character and start playing. Along the way you make some friends. And maybe some enemies, too :) Again, how does one NOT find their friends on the same server as they are?

Am I missing something here about mege-servers? Why on earth would I need software to decide what players are "best for me?" If I feel like heavy duty combat because I had a bad day at work, does this mega-server find others who are looking to kick ass and take names? How about a nice relaxing session of crafting? Does the same thing happen? What happens to the people on my friends list? Will we ALWAYS be on the same server like we were in games of old?




I've been in several MMORPG where one person starts one day or one week, and another person starts on another day or a different and rolling on the same server is impossible*. By the time it is possible, time has already been invested in the characters, so people end up playing on different servers.

Not as often, but a couple times I've met people through my wife's work who played the same games I did, but we were on different servers, and had invested time in our characters and switching servers was either not an option, or cost money. I would expect this is the same for anyone you meet outside of a game, on forums for the game or forums like the MMORPG.com forums.

It's the reason people spend so much time whining about server transfers.

The argument against mega-servers is that there is no community of known people. There's no community of known people anyway because there are thousands of people on servers now. "Communities" as such went away sometime around 2006. Using it as a complaint against a particular server schema now doesn't even make sense.

TESO's system will attempt to put you in the same channel as your friends, from your friends list. I'm not sure about enemies, but it would be nice to have an enemies list as well. You can also change channels manually if you want. You have the same random chance of running into people who share your mood as you would with any server schema.

* When new games launch.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10878

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/19/12 10:34:27 AM#55


Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by MyTabbycat The devs have said that quest givers won't have exclamation marks over their heads. You actually have to go out in the world and talk to the NPC's to find out if they have any quests for you to do. So in that sense, questing will not be at all like WoW. Also, using the compass is optional. It will work like it does in Skyrim - pointing out points of interest as you get closer to them.
Except if I am playing a Breton then that POI that shows up when I am on the border of Skyrim will be permanently out of reach as a Breton cannot enter Skyrim due to hardcoded faction restrictions on where you can go on the map.

There are 10 teritories (1 of them PvP) so any character you create will be able to explore their 3 faction lands and the pvp area or 40% of the entire game world. If you don't enjoy PvP then that is 30% of the game will be unavailable to you unless you create another character in another faction. Currently you will never be able to see HighRock and the teeth of the world on the same character.




If the areas are accessible only to particular factions, that means there is no overlap in content. Usually the problem with alternate factions is overlapping content, which isn't the case here.

Pick your poison - overlapping content where rolling another character in a different faction or as a different race is redundant, but you can explore everything on one character, OR rolling another character in a different faction results in 100% new content that you can't otherwise experience, but you can't explore the world on one character.

It's a trade-off.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1936

12/19/12 10:47:17 AM#56

It sure would be nice to have a modern AAA MMO with absolutely no PvP or Raiding in it.  I have to wonder if maybe that is the reason for much of the turnover in modern MMOs.  Too much PvP / Raiding in the genre when the majority of gamers aren't interested in them.  Why aren't there more games without them?  That to me indicates an industry that is completely out of touch with their consumers.

 

Hopefully, as modern MMOs continue to fail to retain players, they will begin a paradigm shift with MMO features and mechanics and content.  I don't believe changing the combat mechanics has ever been the issue with reviving player interest.  I think it's the constant regurgitation of the same or similar style of content, features and game mechanics that are really the problem.  Has any developer even tried to come up with a different end game scenario other than raiding or pvp?  We know that virtual worlds are quite addictive, yet every developer has made every effort to get away from them and hash out instance lobby games like rats having babies.  Perhaps another part of the problem are lazy, corner cutting development houses?  The focus used to be about long term profits, yet today the focus is on short term profits.  Who needs good quality for short term?

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3286

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

12/21/12 3:49:38 AM#57


Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by lizardbones
... I think the mega server thing is a fine solution. We're never going to get back to servers where everyone knows each other, so we may as well be on servers that get us near the people we know.

I think I'm missing something here. This doesn't make sense to me.

You, and your friends, decide to play a game. You look into the game and see they have servers to choose from. You each roll on an agreed upon server. How does one NOT find their friends now?

Or how about this... You are playing a game which has servers and you cajole a friend or two or three to join in the fun. I am pretty sure you let them know what server you are playing on before they dig into the game.

In another scenario, you alone choose a game to play and it has servers to select from. You roll your character and start playing. Along the way you make some friends. And maybe some enemies, too :) Again, how does one NOT find their friends on the same server as they are?

Am I missing something here about mege-servers? Why on earth would I need software to decide what players are "best for me?" If I feel like heavy duty combat because I had a bad day at work, does this mega-server find others who are looking to kick ass and take names? How about a nice relaxing session of crafting? Does the same thing happen? What happens to the people on my friends list? Will we ALWAYS be on the same server like we were in games of old?



I've been in several MMORPG where one person starts one day or one week, and another person starts on another day or a different and rolling on the same server is impossible*. By the time it is possible, time has already been invested in the characters, so people end up playing on different servers.

Not as often, but a couple times I've met people through my wife's work who played the same games I did, but we were on different servers, and had invested time in our characters and switching servers was either not an option, or cost money. I would expect this is the same for anyone you meet outside of a game, on forums for the game or forums like the MMORPG.com forums.

It's the reason people spend so much time whining about server transfers.

The argument against mega-servers is that there is no community of known people. There's no community of known people anyway because there are thousands of people on servers now. "Communities" as such went away sometime around 2006. Using it as a complaint against a particular server schema now doesn't even make sense.

TESO's system will attempt to put you in the same channel as your friends, from your friends list. I'm not sure about enemies, but it would be nice to have an enemies list as well. You can also change channels manually if you want. You have the same random chance of running into people who share your mood as you would with any server schema.

* When new games launch.


Thanks for the explanation, lizardbones :) I am still unsure about mega-server yet, but I understand the theory better.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

12/21/12 11:09:55 AM#58

Elder Scrolls = Freedom to choose your path

There are still people who haven't gone through the main plot of Skyrim, they are spending their times killing dragons, exploring each inch of the maps, and finding caves. There are mods out there that eliminated the Compass, where people just explore randomly.

When you lock your characters in Factions and Races then Class, you are no longer playing an Elder Scrolls, you are playing an Regular RPG.

Is that bad? Not if you are looking for an RPG that everyone else is creating.

But don't try to say its an Elder Scrolls. Sure, it might be hard putting Online Mode into an Game where you are the focus, then trying to make the Game world where everyone is the focus. But isn't that the Jobs of the Developers to figure a way to make everyone important.

If I remember correctly, before Morrowind and Skyrim, your character was just a regular person whom was in the wrong place at the right time, helping people because you needed something from them. It was more of an This for That exchange with NPC. You weren't the super Hero that everyone worships.

Why can't Elder Scrolls Online do that, Give us the World, an Elder Scrolls World. Instead of an Normal Everyday MMORPG world, where if I just change the name to RPG World online, it would still work.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  SuprGamerX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/05/09
Posts: 538

12/21/12 11:19:46 AM#59
Originally posted by ZigZags

My biggest concern about an IP that I grew up with and love is that the developers are so out of touch with reality that they are heading down a path similar to what BioWare did with SWTOR. Based on what we know today, I believe TESO will havea  fate similar to SWTOR. Huge budget, exciting for the first 30-90 days, then drop off and fail status shortly after. Here's why.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Fr6VF_1LA at 0:27 Matt Firor thinks they are bringing two different types of players together into one game. As a result they are mixing TES features with "popular" MMO features that two different players will be familiar with and like. This is so not true at all. Of the 27 friends on my Steam list that play TES series, all of them play MMO games as well. These are the same player base. Not two different. By adding features like, instances, short term instanced battlegrounds, factions, zone locks etc. they think they will combine the two player bases together. They don't understand that the two are one and the same and are sick and tired of instanced zones, short term battlegrounds, zone locks and lack of freedom.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Fr6VF_1LA at 3:11 Matt Firor thinks that the worst experience in an MMO at the early stages is not being able to find your friends. So their solution is "Mega Server" where the computer decides which server/instance to put you in. This could not be further from the truth. I have played MMOs for 17 years and never once did I have problems finding my friends because we all knew before hand where we were going to play. How? Because we are friends duh, we communicate via chat, phone, text and we all know where we are going. Having a "smart computer" tell you where you are going means 2 bad things: 1) How does it know who your friends are and where it will put you? It doesn't and at first, it wont. 2) This means the game is going to be HEAVILY instanced. This is bad because maybe you want to stalk an opponent who's been killing you and since you're not friends, maybe you wont be on the same server today...I see this is TESO dev team jumping on to some new server technology (that SWTOR used) because it sounds good, but as we have already seen. It wont be.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Fr6VF_1LA at 8:04 This is what GW2 did and is totally stupid and is what happens when you force and funnel people to a PVP area. Rather than giving us an open world we can PVP in at any level which is what we haven't seen in a while and is something I think most of s hunger for. Zenimax is failing hard here.

 

These are just a few examples of how I believe the Developers are out of touch with what the MMO/TES fans and players are thirsting for in this title. As in all previous TES, we want a non linear OPEN WORLD where we can do what we want when we want. Factions are OK if you allow cross factions to explore the opposing faction's areas. By zone locking us out and funneling us into Cyrodil you are no different than what SWTOR tried to do, what GW2 is doing and failing at and what DAOC did but was never as big as it wanted to be. Zenimax should take lessons from the failures of the past and not make the same mistakes. Take EQ as an example. As a Halfing I could venture to Dark Elf territory and sweat bullets that I wouldn't be detected and KOS. THAT's the kind of feel we want. Not some carebear safety zones with a race to 50 so we can pvp in Cyrodil and definitely not the computer auto scaling my level and gear so I can fight in Cyrodil at lvl 10. That is so carebear and NOT what TES fans are going to pay for long term.

I only hope TESO is 3-4 years down the road , and not planning a 2013 release , otherwise it will fail , and I don't care how popular Skyrim is...

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7157

12/21/12 11:35:17 AM#60


Originally posted by Lucioon

But isn't that the Jobs of the Developers to figure a way to make everyone important.

No, it is not their job to make a game for you exclusively.

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