I have been very vocal about hating a lot of things announced about this game but not even I would take a side on this because it just plain cannot be answered yet.

I picked my arguments based on whats known, this game is more DaoC than TES seeing as how there have been MMOs completely open world and we know TESO can be done right, and thus removing the other DaoC style limitations that TES games dont have, like forced factions and PvP limited to closed zones...all based on what is known about the game already.

---

Originally posted by BrianDivision Do TESO have the balls to make endgame PVP? I mean REAL endgame PvP. Full Loot. I can picture it now, riding along into PVP where your adrenaline actually goes up because you have a worthy opponent who just might take that epic sword you decided to take deep into Cyrodil to sing songs of victory. Don't ask what you have to lose, ask what you have to gain: Full Loot gives longetivity, Full Loot gives epic wins, Full Loot gives losses someone will talk about and rage about for years. You don't wanna be left with that dissatisfied feeling when you enter the battlefield that all your kit and your unrealistically "immortal" horse is nice and safe? Yeah. Full Loot is endgame and longetivity :)  

---

Plus they are catering to the masses with this one. 

Be nice if they had servers for hardcore PvP but it wont because of Megaserver tech.

I for one will enjoy the game for its RvR aspects.

Well if they make things properly it could  be a new wow era for me since i love es series. Id prefare it to be more free,more sandbox like could meet anyone anywhere but since they r making it more theme style at least i hope they make it good and working. Good and addictive gameplay and deep character advancement system guarantees for me Longevity for a rpg mmo or not.If its good loads of ppl will play it.

Also  concerning pvp apart world pvp i excpect something like pvp tournaments similar to wow' arena system or any other system but somethinjg that is working well and gives recognition to the players.

Originally posted by BrianDivision

Do TESO have the balls to make endgame PVP? I mean REAL endgame PvP.

Full Loot.

I can picture it now, riding along into PVP where your adrenaline actually goes up because you have a worthy opponent who just might take that epic sword you decided to take deep into Cyrodil to sing songs of victory.

Don't ask what you have to lose, ask what you have to gain:

Full Loot gives longetivity, Full Loot gives epic wins, Full Loot gives losses someone will talk about and rage about for years.

You don't wanna be left with that dissatisfied feeling when you enter the battlefield that all your kit and your unrealistically "immortal" horse is nice and safe?

Yeah. Full Loot is endgame and longetivity :)

 

I hope all your "e-balls" and hardcore pvp talk comes from playing age of conan on those hardcore pvp servers.

Originally posted by BrianDivision

Do TESO have the balls to make endgame PVP? I mean REAL endgame PvP.

Full Loot.

I can picture it now, riding along into PVP where your adrenaline actually goes up because you have a worthy opponent who just might take that epic sword you decided to take deep into Cyrodil to sing songs of victory.

Don't ask what you have to lose, ask what you have to gain:

Full Loot gives longetivity, Full Loot gives epic wins, Full Loot gives losses someone will talk about and rage about for years.

You don't wanna be left with that dissatisfied feeling when you enter the battlefield that all your kit and your unrealistically "immortal" horse is nice and safe? Then pass this on.

Yeah. Full Loot is endgame and longetivity :)

 

'Full loot' - the beloved schtick of the miniscule minority...

It HAS to be in an entirely sandbox MMO or it's game destroying.

It HAS to exist where gear is easy to replace or it's game destroying.

It has NO place whatsoever in a game with any kind of PvE gear challenge because it's game destroying.

The reasons are many, and completely, utterly, painfully obvious...

You cannot have full loot in a game with event a sniff of themepark, and pure sandbox games are not nearly as popular as themepark - the numbers don't lie...

Imagination helps nothing. You have to play it in order to determine its longevity.

Since every person has different views on how they game and why they game, it all comes down to personal preference.

There Are in fact people who see longevity in a game when they can grind endlessly and get fed with a constant stream of new armor designs. Some people prefer content in form of story-telling.

What Exactly do You understand under longevity?

To be precice: NO game ever made had longevity. Not even an MMO.

And the more you are in, the more you realize: Every game has the depth of what you believe the game will be or "is" in the end. If you can not see behind the curtain of something, in this case a game, it will look endless to you. If you can see behind things of our materialistic world, which HAVE to have an end in order to exist, then you truly understand whats happening.

If you think a game has longevity or even believe it has "no end", then you really have to wake up. Actually you start playing a game just to quit it sooner or later.

Realize this. And ask yourself why you are even playing.

pure sandbox games are not nearly as popular as themepark - the numbers don't lie...

Only because themeparkers don't know what they be missing.

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by coretex666

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Entirely pointless and wildly speculative thread considering that the longevity factor is not clear in the slightest at the moment.

The information released to date raises various questions, but longevity isn't one of them.

You are clearly dissmissive of themeparks, but you really don't know how sandbox Cyrodil is going to be - nor how big, nor how much fun, nor how challenging.

You're guessing at best...

Wildly speculative? Yes

Entirely pointless? Depends on the point of view.

My point is not to prove something or reach some definite conclusion. The point is to find out other's opinions (or speculations if you will) regarding this matter.

I am dissmissive of themeparks as you say which should not be so relevant for the point of this thread described above.

Feel free to speculate if you like and if you dont, feel free not to participate in the discussion.

The answer to the question asked in the OP may be quite simple. One person may say..."for me, the longevity is in the public dungeons if they are done right". Next person may say "for me, it is the pvp that promises longevity if this and that happens".

In fact, I would be interested to hear some opinions like this. Is that entirely pointless? Maybe...

A reasonable response, so allow me to rejoin...

We cannot - you, I or anyone, at the moment, have an informed opinion on this matter.

We can get out our crystal balls and speculate, but that's it.

My point is that there is far too much prognostication on these boards which amounts to smoke and mirrors - blurring the lines between what we can and cannot know, what we can and cannot predict, and what we can, and cannot expect to like or dislike about the game.

Creatng threads with no current basis just muddies the water - we might as well be debating whether ESO will introduce Chocobos - simply because we have no information they won't...

... but that would be just as pointless in my opinion.

If people could limit themselves to slightly more sensible debate about what we know, or can predict based on SOME evidence, at least the wild swings between this faction and that faction on the boards would have some relevance, and be of some use to those reading it.

There is in my opinion far too much 'what if' chat that gets taken as gospel truth, and feeding that ignorant fire does no-one any good whatsoever.

That said - it will continue until the end of time - but that doesn't mean I can't complain about it...

C'est la vie...

 I do respect the reason why you dont like this thread :)

All I'm saying is we could do with some RISK VS REWARD

hear me brah's?

I really want to look forward to this game but I'm having a lot of difficulty taking that first step.  When I first saw the title of the article in Game Informer I was initally excited.  I read the article and ended up being disappointed.  I walked away feeling it was gonna be more theme parky when anyone who played morrowind/oblivion/skyrim knows elders scrolls is more a sandboxy feel.  I mean the article even mentioned there wouldn't be player housing if I remember correctly.  I loved being a pack rat in all the other elser scrolls titles, it was part of the experience imo.  If you felt like it you grabbed a bow, threw on some light armor and went out to snipe bandits. Sometimes you would don your heavy set, pulled a 2her off your wall and go brawl toe to toe with something.

There's a few alpha testers posting on sites/you tube claiming the world feels like a cross between gw2 and skyrim/obilivion but quests like mists of pandaria.  I'm not sure if I'm on board with all of that honestly. 

I dunno, I'm torn.  I want this game to be good but I've been down this road before with a lot of titles over the years.  I know it's early but I've yet to see a feature in this game that has set the hook.  It doesn't help that more often than not games release unfinished, limp along, scramble to keep people playing and then go belly up. 

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I think it will share the same kind of success as Rift as far as the long hall. It looks to be of high quality and very polished. The problem with these games though is that they must start adding in sandbox elements. Players need to be able to place houses and castles in the world. There needs to be a sense of ownership and a way to show off your prestige and wealth to the world.

There are tons of things like this that must be done. Archage is doing it now and it is going to blow most of these games out of the water. The only problem Archage has right now is is the 2006ish/asian looking graphics.

Originally posted by Cothor

I think it will share the same kind of success as Rift as far as the long hall. It looks to be of high quality and very polished. The problem with these games though is that they must start adding in sandbox elements. Players need to be able to place houses and castles in the world. There needs to be a sense of ownership and a way to show off your prestige and wealth to the world.

 

There are tons of things like this that must be done. Archage is doing it now and it is going to blow most of these games out of the water. The only problem Archage has right now is is the 2006ish/asian looking graphics.

Achearge is all about pretty graphics tho...

Races are meh. Specially those animal ones... and I wont even mention the "cute" one.

Lore doesnt exist - gangnam style (actually if Hyuna made me a visit I might actually buy the game and be awesome while playing it... but that is not going to happen.)

Combat is terrible.

I dont get the Archeage hype... sure the engine is awesome but... thats pretty much all archearge has.

From what I understand, you don't have to do the quests if you don't want to, there will be many dungeons and other areas of interest to explore, just like what is typical of an elder scrolls game.

So, I guess it depends on your definition of longevity.. 100-500 hours to explore everything isn't really that much for an MMO. It's still at least worth the box price plus a few months of subs.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Depends how good the rvr is

Exactly !

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Originally posted by Cothor

I think it will share the same kind of success as Rift as far as the long hall. It looks to be of high quality and very polished. The problem with these games though is that they must start adding in sandbox elements. Players need to be able to place houses and castles in the world. There needs to be a sense of ownership and a way to show off your prestige and wealth to the world.

 

There are tons of things like this that must be done. Archage is doing it now and it is going to blow most of these games out of the water. The only problem Archage has right now is is the 2006ish/asian looking graphics.

Achearge is all about pretty graphics tho...

Races are meh. Specially those animal ones... and I wont even mention the "cute" one.

Lore doesnt exist - gangnam style (actually if Hyuna made me a visit I might actually buy the game and be awesome while playing it... but that is not going to happen.)

Combat is terrible.

I dont get the Archeage hype... sure the engine is awesome but... thats pretty much all archearge has.

its the stuff you can do in it

build ships together and take up pirarcy, build your own keeps and defend them, build your own seige engines (collectively) , setup a farm etc..

Originally posted by Cothor

I think it will share the same kind of success as Rift as far as the long hall. It looks to be of high quality and very polished. The problem with these games though is that they must start adding in sandbox elements. Players need to be able to place houses and castles in the world. There needs to be a sense of ownership and a way to show off your prestige and wealth to the world.

 

There are tons of things like this that must be done. Archage is doing it now and it is going to blow most of these games out of the water. The only problem Archage has right now is is the 2006ish/asian looking graphics.

hence they've stressed the importance of crafting.  Its why theyve dumped the pvp mini games, its why theres an ultimate goal of getting crowned emporer and stuff.  

Well, lemme see:

- 100% Combat centric

- Fixed classes based progression - no freeform character development.

- Character leveling - no real skills based progression

- No posible communication or interaction with the opposing factions.

- Locked factions.

- Grind me 1000000 banana peels+1 and 2000000 troll scrotums type of crafting - no workshop based crafting.

- On-rails faction-based personal story in which you, your mother and anybody else is a hero (which is the same as to say that nothing is truly heroic at all).

- Carebear, solo and casual oriented.

- Instanced PvP (big instance I know).

- Compartmentalization of game systems (PVE, PVP... so nobody is disturbed in his or her tunneled leveling experience) - no truly integrated, virtual world experience.

- No player ridden economy or politics

- No housing neither any other form of progression besides stats-addition-on-gear based one (Mr Pavlov and his dog send regards).

- Raids and Instanced PvP based "End-game" (nice word for a bland game design).

- No pickpocketing, no real consequences for your actions, lore travesty to try to stick together this conceptual mess, lore travesty to cater to the kiddies and such that want to play "pretty characters", everybody's character is well isolated and protected from each other, very low degree of interaction with the wolrd and with the others... .... .....

Conclusion: hat we have here is a "casual oriented themepark" ladies and gents, and as such, by its very design, will not stand the test of time. At best it will provide with 2-3 months of bland, dull entertainment that will not leave any lasting memory. In other words, another case of Fast-Food style mmo. Nothing new under the sun, except the pain of seeing a paradigm of free-form progression and high-degree world interaction as the TES series raped in such an obscene fashion.

It is impossible for a casual themepark ala WoW (pardon my reduccionism, still i think is pretty accurate) to last long unless you want to mindlessly repeat (instanced) content in the form of raids and dailies a/o (instanced) pvp.

"True immortality" corresponds to the mmorpgs that offer a high degree of interaction with the other characters & the world, with player controlled politics and economy and player runned events. To put an example: UO and EVE still hold loads o' subscriptions after so many years. Of course, not the best model for the carebears and soloplayers, which are nothing but the logical evolution of the formers (i always guess why, oh why, did these guys started playing mmorpgs in the first place - guess must damn WoW and its commercialization tactic to the lowest common possible denominator market segment).

Originally posted by coretex666

Do you think that this game may be successful in its current form which I believe is a pure themepark.

Like they say, it really opens up at level 50, when you can do pvp to keep structures, resources which is kind of meaningless in themepark, isnt it.

Or you can do dungeons with your friends. I have done hundreds if not thousands of dungeons in last 10 years. What will be the point of doing them in TESO? More powerful gear?Cosmetic gear? Will the gameplay be so great that it will make me want to grind even more dungeons? Is this the kind of game the point of playing which is "to have fun" which means that you just enjoy instant action whether it may be meaningless pvp or dungs / quests for gear.

What aspect of this game seems to promis longevity for you? Is it the PvP?

I do not mean to bash the game. In fact, I like some of its aspects (e.g. combat, art style) and I am kind of interested in how it turns out, but I am a little concerned with the endgame in this MMO. At the moment, I do not see the long term motivation to play this game. It just seems to be a little shallow to me.

Maybe it is too early to ask these questions, but do you have any opinion on this?

You know what? I think I am going to wait until I have actually PLAYED the game to even bother with this topic...

Originally posted by coretex666

Do you think that this game may be successful in its current form which I believe is a pure themepark.

Like they say, it really opens up at level 50, when you can do pvp to keep structures, resources which is kind of meaningless in themepark, isnt it.

Or you can do dungeons with your friends. I have done hundreds if not thousands of dungeons in last 10 years. What will be the point of doing them in TESO? More powerful gear?Cosmetic gear? Will the gameplay be so great that it will make me want to grind even more dungeons? Is this the kind of game the point of playing which is "to have fun" which means that you just enjoy instant action whether it may be meaningless pvp or dungs / quests for gear.

What aspect of this game seems to promis longevity for you? Is it the PvP?

I do not mean to bash the game. In fact, I like some of its aspects (e.g. combat, art style) and I am kind of interested in how it turns out, but I am a little concerned with the endgame in this MMO. At the moment, I do not see the long term motivation to play this game. It just seems to be a little shallow to me.

Maybe it is too early to ask these questions, but do you have any opinion on this?

If this game is themepark as you say, then I don't forsee longevity from a personal standpoint. I'll probably play it for a few months if only for the story. And even then, the only things that can really keep me hooked are if they improve on the visuals and combat system.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
[mod edit]

You vomit their marketing brochure before digesting it as if you were providing a contra-argument, which it isn't, or as if the current offered features were exciting, which they aren't - in fact they sound as same ol', same ol' casual amusement park ride.

And yes, the devs have already stated that this is gonna be casual, solo oriented ("don't want to "punish" anyone", nice way of putting it) and yes, the PvP experience is an instanced one - that is big instance up to 2k players divided in 3 teams, that's all you have for pvp. And the same for the rest of the features.... there's no blindest as the one who cannot see.

Last one: am I against this game? Of course I am! You may want to understand that a lot of former roleplayers (true backbone of original mmorpgs) are sick and angry and irritated after 10 years of systematic linearization, arcadeization and dumbification; much so when those bland standards are applied to a classic franchise - that if anything has standed out as a pinnacle for high degree interaction and freedom - that many of us have been playing since the days of Daggerfall. 

In any case, hope I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it - but at this point in time and development I doubt such thing will happen.

EDIT: typos