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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Why do they have race limited factions?

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  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

4/07/13 2:26:41 PM#161
Originally posted by Anakami
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Anakami

I hope that at some point the developers would answer a few questions regarding this race lock decision. Mostly why they thought it was sucha good idea to begin with.

I find it hilarious that they emphasize on wanting to bring in the social media and networks and invite you to play the game with your friends. I'd like to ask them then: Tell me, how can I play with my friends if they are race locked into one of the factions right from the start. Can I communicate with them? Quest with them? PvP as a group or guild?

So far the answer seems no, unless they all decide to give up on their favorite race from ES and pick one that happens to be in the same alliance that my race is in. So how does this support social play? What about the guild that we were planning to create? RP events in various regions of Tamriel?

I am really puzzled at this design decision. But there is hoping that they will lift these restrictions somewhere along the development of this game.

And here I thought you were an intelligent person. You really don't know why they did it? Or are you just using the same old tactic of feigning ignorance to make a point? I'm betting on number 2.

There is a 3-sided war. People and places are separated by that war. This is what happens in wars, the people and territories are separated. That is why they did it. The alternative that is proposed by some is that first you pick a race and then you pick a side so that each side would have an equal mix of all 3 races. From a believability point of view, that is just ridiculous. It sounds like a sport not a war.

You might prefer something different, but saying you don't understand why is disingenuous.

 

And here I thought you were a person who didn't have to resort to insults :D

Also, you didn't understand my point. I am well aware of the fact that they tried to build this game around their PvP. What I don't understand is that they thought restricting PvE so much and severely limiting the choices of people wanting to play together with friends regardless of race choice was a good idea.

It is also not necessary. They can have their RvR all they want, but they should also offer  different options for those who are more interested in the PvE part. More options is always a good thing.

I know you are probably going to use that faction pride argument, but see, this is where we disagree the most I think. I don't need some artificial faction pride to enjoy PvP. I do PvP for PvP's sake. I PvP because I want to fight and measure my skills against that of other players.

Now if there is also a good reason to fight,backed by ingame lore, that's even better of course. Don't feel it here though, the reasons why some of the races are allied now seem unvonvincing at best. Also the alternative would be great, they just have to make that war more a war between political factions based on agenda than based on race. You know, like Elder Scrolls has always been about conflicting interests raher than racially motivated wars. In any case, my PvE experience does not influence my PvP motivation at all.

The way it is now I doubt you will get any sense of faction pride anyway. You can campaign hop (with a penalty or delay maybe, but the option is in) and what you are fighting for will reset anyway at some point, when a new emperor is chosen by the game. I would PvP anyway, because i like PvP, but feeling some sort of pride just because I pick one of the 3 factions? Hm...nah, cant feel it here. Was a lot different in DAoC though.

So what exactly do you lose if they would allow people to play together and have the PvE part co-op style? I have read some arguments here that stated they need to build up enough hate for the enemy to get a sense of faction pride, so it totally ruins their mood if they would see someone from a different faction.

That's a bit scary imo. I don`t want to hate anyone here, I just want a friendly competition on the battlefield. But alas, I think we still can have both with the mega server technology. I am pretty sure you can be put into PvE zones where you will never see someone from a different faction. You could also have an option to not being able to understand anything a member of another faction says. There, you get your "I am isolated and can hate my enemy now" thingy, and those who don't need or want that to restrict their PvE experience get their preferred playstyle.

I can't see why anyone would be against the inclusion of more options so more people can enjoy the game. Unless...but I won't go there ;)

Characterizing a misguided opinion as an absolute truth doesn't make it so. No, More options is not always a good thing. More focus and cohesiveness trumps more options every time. For example, competitive 10 minute scenarion PvP would be another option. One that would make no sense here and would dilute and cheapen their attempt to have this PvP be a different type with an emphasis on large scale strategy and tactics. Likewise having factions who are at war in Cyrodiil comingle and quest together when not in Cyrodiil would also be another option that does not fit into this game design.

And you're wasting your time trying to preemptively counter an argument I have no need to mention. It's not about faction pride, it's about consistency and focus. They have created a lore for this game of a 3-sided war separated by region and races. I know that you and a few others don't like that. Nevertheless, they have made that fundamental design choice. Now they are just designing the whole world and game systems to be consistent with that original fundamental design decission. Faction pride may or may not be a bonus consequence.

What do you loose by comingling willy nilly in PvE? Just a consistent, believable design: there is either a 3-sided war with the races divided into factions or there is not. Either one of those would have been a viable premise around which to build an MMO. The one things that isn't viable is having both at once.

That is what the 3 of you who are consistently railing agains the game don't seem to get when you promote unrealistic "compromises." Design decissions have consequences that impact the whole game. I get that you don't like the 3-faction racial separation. Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion and your vision of how the game should have been designed. Just don't try to pretend that shoe-horning your game-play preference of everyone PvEing together makes any sense whatsoever within the current design model. That type of PvE gameplay would only make sense If Zmax had chosen to design an MMO without a 3-sided racially separated war.

 

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

4/07/13 3:52:53 PM#162

That type of PvE gameplay would only make sense If Zmax had chosen to design an MMO without a 3-sided racially separated war.

 

That is exactly my issue with their design decision. Of course it is only my personal impression, but a 3 sided racially separated war is a terrible idea for TES.

Also, I am not ranting against the game, just questioning parts of its design. I am really fine with all the rest, just the race lock and the issue of not being able to play with my friends who would like to play their race of choice bothers me. That's all :)

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/07/13 8:23:55 PM#163
Originally posted by Anakami

That type of PvE gameplay would only make sense If Zmax had chosen to design an MMO without a 3-sided racially separated war.

 

That is exactly my issue with their design decision. Of course it is only my personal impression, but a 3 sided racially separated war is a terrible idea for TES.

Also, I am not ranting against the game, just questioning parts of its design. I am really fine with all the rest, just the race lock and the issue of not being able to play with my friends who would like to play their race of choice bothers me. That's all :)

I dont see any logical explanation as to how pve would suffer from RvRvR. If anything, it would make it better.

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Magiknight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 744

4/07/13 8:48:49 PM#164
Because MMOs should have restraints and limitations. I know pop culture says you can always change your circumstances and be anything you want to be, but it's just not true.
  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

4/07/13 8:58:58 PM#165
Originally posted by KaosProphet

From a believability side:  it's 'just ridiculous' that there are no traitors, defectors, or racial-minorities loyal to the place of their generation's birth than to that of  ancestors.  That every Breton serves Emeric, every Altmer serves Ayrenn and so on.

Of course, that's not *entirely* true.  It has been confirmed that there is an Argonian quest-giver in the Covenant lands, so this restriction, this 'people and territories are seperated' only applies as an absolute to the PCs.  NPCs get to break that rule.

Ergo, a strict sense of 'believablity' is not the reason they did it this way.   What I believe is the real reason they went this route:  Matt just feels more comfortable balancing the AvA conflict by locking the players to given sides according to racial picks.  He believes it makes for a more sporting wargame that way :p

I agree with this.

Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

IMO he is phoning the whole game in

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/08/13 1:30:36 AM#166
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by KaosProphet

From a believability side:  it's 'just ridiculous' that there are no traitors, defectors, or racial-minorities loyal to the place of their generation's birth than to that of  ancestors.  That every Breton serves Emeric, every Altmer serves Ayrenn and so on.

Of course, that's not *entirely* true.  It has been confirmed that there is an Argonian quest-giver in the Covenant lands, so this restriction, this 'people and territories are seperated' only applies as an absolute to the PCs.  NPCs get to break that rule.

Ergo, a strict sense of 'believablity' is not the reason they did it this way.   What I believe is the real reason they went this route:  Matt just feels more comfortable balancing the AvA conflict by locking the players to given sides according to racial picks.  He believes it makes for a more sporting wargame that way :p

I agree with this.

Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

IMO he is phoning the whole game in

You realise ESO is a "pvp" game right? Domination style RvR...

Do you understand how tedious that gets with only two realms? Do you understand how exciting it is with three?

You've never played an RvRvR game have you... =(

Never experienced a fight in a bottleneck, when all of a sudden the third realm comes from behind... It's a great model, stop being a carebear, it's revolting.

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

4/08/13 3:04:45 AM#167

I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

4/08/13 11:47:17 AM#168
Originally posted by Anakami

I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

There you go again. Stating another opinion as fact.

When you're writing fantasy--be it in the form of a book, a movie, a single player RPG, an MMO...whatever. There are no rules that say that different mythological worlds do not mix. You're just making that up because its convenient to your position.

Dark Age of Camelot could have been done any one of a thousand different ways and in many of those parallel DAoC universes the mythologies could have mixed. As a matter of fact the cultures that had those mythologies as part of their oral and written traditions--The Norse, Celts and Britons--did in fact mix...eventually.

They didn't mix in DAoC simply because their game was designed that way. And since there had been no single player DAoC games prior to the MMO, there wasn't a handful of fans of the single game crying "lore foul!"

I'm also a TES fan and I say it fits perfectly wel.

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

4/08/13 11:51:42 AM#169
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by KaosProphet

From a believability side:  it's 'just ridiculous' that there are no traitors, defectors, or racial-minorities loyal to the place of their generation's birth than to that of  ancestors.  That every Breton serves Emeric, every Altmer serves Ayrenn and so on.

Of course, that's not *entirely* true.  It has been confirmed that there is an Argonian quest-giver in the Covenant lands, so this restriction, this 'people and territories are seperated' only applies as an absolute to the PCs.  NPCs get to break that rule.

Ergo, a strict sense of 'believablity' is not the reason they did it this way.   What I believe is the real reason they went this route:  Matt just feels more comfortable balancing the AvA conflict by locking the players to given sides according to racial picks.  He believes it makes for a more sporting wargame that way :p

I agree with this.

Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

IMO he is phoning the whole game in

You realise ESO is a "pvp" game right? Domination style RvR...

Do you understand how tedious that gets with only two realms? Do you understand how exciting it is with three?

You've never played an RvRvR game have you... =(

Never experienced a fight in a bottleneck, when all of a sudden the third realm comes from behind... It's a great model, stop being a carebear, it's revolting.

QFT

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17116

4/08/13 11:55:34 AM#170
Originally posted by Sentnl

I agree with this.

Matt Firor is doing the only thing Matt Firor knows how to do. He cant think outside that limited DAOC formula

He reminds me of the "Awesom-O 4000" who can only think up movie ideas that feature Adam Sandler

IMO he is phoning the whole game in

You realise ESO is a "pvp" game right? Domination style RvR...

Do you understand how tedious that gets with only two realms? Do you understand how exciting it is with three?

You've never played an RvRvR game have you... =(

Never experienced a fight in a bottleneck, when all of a sudden the third realm comes from behind... It's a great model, stop being a carebear, it's revolting.

Maybe he's not interested in a 3 realm game even with pvp?

Maybe he doesn't mind two factons or maybe he likes ffa?

your passion for the subject can't be questioned but you assume too much.

Maybe he was expecting an "Elder Scrolls" game in the style of game the Elder Scrolls has brought to us over the last few years and is quite surprised to find a pvp system that seems to come out of left field.

  Anakami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 101

4/08/13 11:57:13 AM#171
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Anakami

I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

There you go again. Stating another opinion as fact.

When you're writing fantasy--be it in the form of a book, a movie, a single player RPG, an MMO...whatever. There are no rules that say that different mythological worlds do not mix. You're just making that up because its convenient to your position.

Dark Age of Camelot could have been done any one of a thousand different ways and in many of those parallel DAoC universes the mythologies could have mixed. As a matter of fact the cultures that had those mythologies as part of their oral and written traditions--The Norse, Celts and Britons--did in fact mix...eventually.

They didn't mix in DAoC simply because their game was designed that way. And since there had been no single player DAoC games prior to the MMO, there wasn't a handful of fans of the single game crying "lore foul!"

I'm also a TES fan and I say it fits perfectly wel.

I don't think I am making anything up here :) They had 3 different mythological realms and the races of each of these realms belonged to that realm's mythology. In contrast the races in ES that are now forcibly put into three fixed alliances inhabit the same world and they have been trading and communicating with each other prior to this..."lore alteration" I ll call it. From what I heard the NPCs still do, so it's double hilarious that they won't allow players to do the same. 

And it's not even solely about a lore foul here. It is the simple fact that people can't play together while having their favorite ES race. Maybe that doesn't bother you, and that's fine. I also accept that you think it fits TES perfectly :) I just know that my friends and I won't be playing this game if the limitations remain and that would be very sad, because just like you we all were looking forward to a good game.

  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

4/08/13 11:58:17 AM#172
Originally posted by bcbully
It increases the hate factor.

Good point.  Whenever I see one of those filthy elves (my preferred faction doesn't have any elvish races), I'll remember all those ganks.  Grrr.

  faxnadu

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/08
Posts: 953

4/08/13 12:00:30 PM#173
if the factions are as alliances why would you wanna make orc and roam around summerset isles pretending that high elf are your buddies?
  asrlohz

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 662

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

4/08/13 12:02:33 PM#174
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Trudge34
I don't mind the race limited factions as much as you can't explore 2/3 of the world without creating another character within the other faction. You should be able to explore the whole world, but realize that you're going to be a hostile enemy in the other areas and prone to being killed by guards and towns people. 

That's another problem I have and I feel it's closely connected to the race/faction limitations.

You can explore the whole world without making toons. After many vocal fans were bothered by it they decided to listen and change that. They didn't change their mind completely but they met us halfway. You may explore the whole of Tamriel after you've finished the mainstory (or reached level 50) on your primary focus. And then you may choose the next factions area to explore.

However there is a lot of lore tied into the race restriction.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17116

4/08/13 12:03:49 PM#175
Originally posted by m0lly
if the factions are as alliances why would you wanna make orc and roam around summerset isles pretending that high elf are your buddies?

maybe he wants to roam summerset and kill them.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2718

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/08/13 12:08:39 PM#176
Originally posted by Vendac
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Sentnl

Originally posted by baphamet   this games PVE will be absolutely nothing like Daoc, Daoc was more like EQ pve minus the raiding (originally) this games PVE will be more like ES meets GW2 than anything. even the pvp combat mechanics will be nothing like Daoc's. the only thing this game has in common with Daoc that i can tell so far is the factions and the open pvp being segregated to one giant zone. this game wont even have battlegrounds like Daoc had.
More of this nonsense.

 

Have you played the game? Tested it? Wait! Are you from the future here giving us your prophetic words!?

Where are you even getting any of this information from? Whether it turns out to be completely true or not...


 

what part of the info i listed do you question? they have announced many of the mechanics and none of them are like what Daoc had NONE!.

did you play Daoc? it was very static combat like EQ and much like most of the MMO's of that era.

why don't you go read any of the reviews from pax that have explained what combat is like in TESO and attempt to tell me how it resembles Daoc in any way.

until then, cry to someone else.

PvE is DAOC was weak at best at release.  It was hard to level.  There were few quests.  You had to group, and you had to have a balanced group.  There was nothing wrong with it, it worked, it still works, but it is harder.  The biggest issue with DAOC PvE was the fact you could powerlevel which actually destroyed the game at some level as after awhile the starter areas became a wasteland.  Then came WoW with a quest based leveling system you could easily solo and I feel that that one thing changed MMOs for the worse for the most part.  People didnt need to make friends or join guilds, or be social to get a group and get good leveling done. 

I seriously doubt that they will use PvE system like DAOC.  It is simply too hard for most people.  Most casual players dont have time to log in for 2-3 hours to get a decent group and level.  But all the same Im hoping that its not all quest grind either and those that choose to group and do harder quest lines get proper rewards, something on the order of 10X the XP for needing a group to do something that takes an hour vs running solo quests that take 5 minutes. 

Some of the DAOC mechanics are great though and I hope we see some of them make it in ESO.  The game made heavy use of the trinity.  Speed classes to give range in PvP or a getaway in PvE.  Endurance regen classes were needed for groups.   Positional melee styles with real effects and bonuses.  Casters had to stand still to cast and could be interrupted, not this run and gun crap we have in most games now.  Last but not least, no fricking GCD.  Inst cast heals made it possible to keep someone alive in a burst damage scenario, a quick insta DD could interupt a caster, and melee speed was determined by the speed of the weapon and you stats, not some timer.

 

Also brought in millions of players and mainstreamed the MMO genre.  I also played Asheron's Call which was the first MMO to offer soloability and it is the reason why I like newer games now.  Forced grouping is idiotic especially considering every endgame activity in MMO's are still group centered content.  I am looking forward to an MMO that offers true solo endgame content as well!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  asrlohz

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 662

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

4/08/13 12:09:11 PM#177
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by m0lly
if the factions are as alliances why would you wanna make orc and roam around summerset isles pretending that high elf are your buddies?

maybe he wants to roam summerset and kill them.

If only they added free roaming into the world I'd be content. Drafting every character as a soldier for the sake of the AvA is kind of silly. I would love being able to play my regular sneaking, thieving, backstabbing Dunmer just like I did in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim (Sadly stealth kind of lost its purpose when you could just shout at enemies with Ice Form and sneak up behind their frozen bodies. And pickpocket your way up to level 40)

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2718

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/08/13 12:19:37 PM#178
Originally posted by Anakami
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Anakami

I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

There you go again. Stating another opinion as fact.

When you're writing fantasy--be it in the form of a book, a movie, a single player RPG, an MMO...whatever. There are no rules that say that different mythological worlds do not mix. You're just making that up because its convenient to your position.

Dark Age of Camelot could have been done any one of a thousand different ways and in many of those parallel DAoC universes the mythologies could have mixed. As a matter of fact the cultures that had those mythologies as part of their oral and written traditions--The Norse, Celts and Britons--did in fact mix...eventually.

They didn't mix in DAoC simply because their game was designed that way. And since there had been no single player DAoC games prior to the MMO, there wasn't a handful of fans of the single game crying "lore foul!"

I'm also a TES fan and I say it fits perfectly wel.

I don't think I am making anything up here :) They had 3 different mythological realms and the races of each of these realms belonged to that realm's mythology. In contrast the races in ES that are now forcibly put into three fixed alliances inhabit the same world and they have been trading and communicating with each other prior to this..."lore alteration" I ll call it. From what I heard the NPCs still do, so it's double hilarious that they won't allow players to do the same. 

And it's not even solely about a lore foul here. It is the simple fact that people can't play together while having their favorite ES race. Maybe that doesn't bother you, and that's fine. I also accept that you think it fits TES perfectly :) I just know that my friends and I won't be playing this game if the limitations remain and that would be very sad, because just like you we all were looking forward to a good game.

No they split them up because the game was trying to create an intiguing game with realm pride and hatred for the other factions due to xenophobia.  They were not mythoclogical realms, they were Scandanavia, Irish and Arthurian England....hardly mythological.  In fact all 3 of those realms were cross polinating and trading with one another as far back as 700 AD.  Hardly what I would call Mythological communications.

The Developers at Mythic took something which was real life and added in their own rules to create the enmity between the factions and none of it was based on real life or truth but based on gameplay systems......MUCH like how the original ESO game was designed but all that was aboloshied in favor of a bunch of overwhelming outcry from fans of the TES games, they never even gave the original game a chance.

Basically DAoC took a real life system, added in unrealistic parameters and system restrictions to enhance the gameplay.  ESO was going to take a FAKE game world, add un system restrictions to enchance the gameplay and everytone went nuts.  Boggles my mind really!

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

4/08/13 12:25:22 PM#179
Originally posted by Anakami
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Anakami

I don't think anyone is having issues with the RvR mechanic. At least I do like that mechanic and I enjoyed it a lot in DAoC. It is rather the theme they chose that is not fitting for TES, imo.

In DAoC I could really get behind the idea of 3 different mythological based realms fighting it out. The races in DAoC all belonged to their realm. There was no trading or communicating with the other realms, because they were completely different mythological worlds.

Now in TES the races all belong to the same world, Tamriel. There was and is trading and communicating all the time. They were never seperated by some magical barrier, unlike DAoC where you coudl argue that mythological realms are indeed separated by magic ;)

It just does not fit with TES to have racial wars and locked factions based on race.

There you go again. Stating another opinion as fact.

When you're writing fantasy--be it in the form of a book, a movie, a single player RPG, an MMO...whatever. There are no rules that say that different mythological worlds do not mix. You're just making that up because its convenient to your position.

Dark Age of Camelot could have been done any one of a thousand different ways and in many of those parallel DAoC universes the mythologies could have mixed. As a matter of fact the cultures that had those mythologies as part of their oral and written traditions--The Norse, Celts and Britons--did in fact mix...eventually.

They didn't mix in DAoC simply because their game was designed that way. And since there had been no single player DAoC games prior to the MMO, there wasn't a handful of fans of the single game crying "lore foul!"

I'm also a TES fan and I say it fits perfectly wel.

I don't think I am making anything up here :) They had 3 different mythological realms and the races of each of these realms belonged to that realm's mythology. In contrast the races in ES that are now forcibly put into three fixed alliances inhabit the same world and they have been trading and communicating with each other prior to this..."lore alteration" I ll call it. From what I heard the NPCs still do, so it's double hilarious that they won't allow players to do the same. 

And it's not even solely about a lore foul here. It is the simple fact that people can't play together while having their favorite ES race. Maybe that doesn't bother you, and that's fine. I also accept that you think it fits TES perfectly :) I just know that my friends and I won't be playing this game if the limitations remain and that would be very sad, because just like you we all were looking forward to a good game.

You have heard of civil wars I pressume.No, sorry. Tamriel's history prior to this 3-sided war doesn't dictate one path.

As to why NPCs and not players. Easy: they can contold the volume of NPC traitors, spies, etc. and keep their numbers appropriately low so that the fundamental premise of the 3-sided racial war they designed still holds. Give players the ability to do the same and any semblance of there actually being a racial war would dissappear...which is what you want...so of course it's understandable you would support that: no big loss to you. It may be singly or doubly hilarious to you. In my experience people often laugh reflexively at what they don't understand.

Also... I would be curious to know just who these people are whose prioriy when playing TES is racial selection and what motivates them to have this uncompromising attitude. I pressume someone that rigid in their thinking would only play games that have that race available to them...so that leaves out any other RPG or MMO. I guess these must be exclusive TES players who identify so strongly with a fantasy racial type that they would willingly abandon friends to play that race if that's what it takes.

Hmmh... If I were you I wouldn;t trust those "friends" to have my back if by doing so they were in any way inconvenienced. Just saying... be careful.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

4/08/13 12:31:28 PM#180
Originally posted by azzamasin

Basically DAoC took a real life system, added in unrealistic parameters and system restrictions to enhance the gameplay.  ESO was going to take a FAKE game world, add un system restrictions to enchance the gameplay and everytone went nuts.  Boggles my mind really!

Correction: Basically DaoC took a real life system, added in unrealistic parameters an system restrictions to create false pride and dumbed down PvP gameplay and anyone that spoke out against it drove fanboys nuts. Boggles my mind really!

 

Seriously, the very idea that I need a developer to create pride for me and hold my hand while PvPing so I dont get all confused about who the enemy is pisses me the eff off because I have played PLENTY OF GAMES BEFORE and AFTER DaoC to know I DONT NEED IT.

I sure as hell DONT NEED it limiting my choices of race/faction nor my ability to role play the race/faction I WANT TO role play.

I sure didnt see ANYONE having a pride issue in Star Wars Galaxies with any race being able to join any faction, do so AFTER character creation and even SWITCH SIDES. In fact, I saw far MORE pride in that game than in DaoC...tell me, did you EVER see people in DaoC dress up in the same armor and MARCH in formation through-out a city pretending to "keep the piece" or show a "military presence"? No.

Did you ever see a group of players stand fast and protect their city from attack? No...couldnt even if you wanted to...

Did you ever have to take back your own homeland from invading forces and laugh with your "faction" and talk about the fight? No...all your fighting was in neverland, a magical place that keeps your own lands safe because its the only place you can fight for some reason.

Real bad ideas eh? THAT is why TES fans are pissed, their choices were taken from them in a game that is supposed to be focused on LONGEVITY yet is vastly limiting gameplay with old crap ideas mostly left behind by the entire genre.

/boggle

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

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