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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Why do they have race limited factions?

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228 posts found
  Nonderyon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/30/07
Posts: 171

10/26/12 10:59:46 AM#61
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Kuinn

I dont find the initial setting of the story too bad actually, but I must agree the Ebonheart Pact really feels like it had to be slammed together just so there's the third faction. I understand the frustration of some TES fans, but personally I like factions with unique races in mmorpgs, you get that faction pride feeling and fighting the enemy makes more sense PvP wise imo.

One of my problems with GW2 is the fact that the PvP encounters feels as if I was fighting people that I should be on the same side with. The complete absense of unique factions with unique racial characteristics really kills the PvP for me.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide Here's the short explanations of the factions in TESO. The Ebonheart Pact kinda strikes my eye the wrong way but the rest are more or less fine.

I'm not comfortable with Daggerfall Alliance with Orcs, Redguard and Brenton.  Orcs really didn't align with anyone and there are a few battles between Redguard and Brenton versus the Orcs but technically that happens after ESO.

There is a similar situations with the Bosmers who "have never found a tried and true ally in any other Tamrielic nation".  They usually don't even get involved with wars.

I've read ESO explanations and they did a good job writing it in but they didn't have to do it like that.  Anyways, here is some more reading that I fount interesting; http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Races.  Follow the links to different races for source of above points.

Like I've said before, I don't hate the game and I know they can't change it but I want to proclaim loud and clear that they did not have to conform this IP to fit the generic MMO model for it to be successful.  Warhammer and Swtor both sacrificed many of their core elements and suffered because of it.  TES could've just made Skyrim/Oblivion with multiplayer and probably surpassed most MMOs that have been released lately.  They should've let the hole be a circle and stop trying to force in a square peg.

 

Some point i agree with you, but dont forgot that, that just general info, nothing more, and another point: in all Elderscrolls what we didnt see are wars,but  just some conflicts, so maybe they behave like that because of the "World at War" effect...

And personaly think, consider a race what they do or not do is not good :) why? because times and happenings change people in real life, why not in an mmorpg? the races in TES they usually behave like that, but why they can't behawe another way? :)

(i think anything can be talked out, just need a good backstory :) )

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/26/12 11:05:45 AM#62
They should have gone with 3 imperial houses fighting for the throne, and you get to join one if you choose which then puts you into a faction. That would have fit tes better (its the same setup as Morrowind). Also they could have poked people into joining smaller faction by offering entry uniforms,higher soldiers wage etc..
  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 916

 
OP  10/26/12 12:56:38 PM#63
Originally posted by Nonderyon

Some point i agree with you, but dont forgot that, that just general info, nothing more, and another point: in all Elderscrolls what we didnt see are wars,but  just some conflicts, so maybe they behave like that because of the "World at War" effect...

And personaly think, consider a race what they do or not do is not good :) why? because times and happenings change people in real life, why not in an mmorpg? the races in TES they usually behave like that, but why they can't behawe another way? :)

(i think anything can be talked out, just need a good backstory :) )

I can see your point to some degree but again it seems like too many ifs, ands, and buts.  The explanations didn't fulfill my personal expectations of the races.  Their core characteristics was compromised to fill in the holes.  It keeps feeling like they are trying to lump them together to satisfy their idea of the MMO standard rather than let the story take it's own life.

I can respect your opinion and I know that I'm not completely right.  I'm starting to feel like I'm making it more than it is but I'm just frustrated with many developers decisions across the industry.  Indie games have spoiled me and I look forward to the day when we'll see a wider scope of game mechanics.
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/26/12 1:03:20 PM#64
"Red is dead".

You need to be able to identify your enemies at a fair distance (assuming your game wants PvP).

Now whether those are chosen at character creation, or flexible/changable player choices, honestly doesn't alter the basic PvP game a whole lot from the player side.

From the dev side, of course, first option is a whole lot simpler.  Maybe not "better", but certainly easier.

Is the distinction even meaningful in an age of "five bucks to change your class/race/faction/alignment/server/cosmetics/name/respec/etc"?  I mean, there are virtually no choices that are permanent any more, your character decisions rarely have real consequences.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

10/26/12 1:07:17 PM#65

At least it's not 2 faction!

Though I can see the one with Nords and Dark Elves being the highest population by far.

Dark Elf types are always popular and Nords will be the most popular human race due to Skyrim.

 

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

10/26/12 1:10:40 PM#66
Originally posted by ShakyMo
They should have gone with 3 imperial houses fighting for the throne, and you get to join one if you choose which then puts you into a faction. That would have fit tes better (its the same setup as Morrowind). Also they could have poked people into joining smaller faction by offering entry uniforms,higher soldiers wage etc..

That's always best, IMO.

Really hard to get the Underdog bonuses right though. I've never really seen it work well.

UO factions, SWG, WoW, WAR, TOR...

Granted most of those were 2 faction, but in UO everyone wanted to be TBs and SLs...

So I was always CoM or MF!

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1047

10/26/12 1:19:52 PM#67
Originally posted by Icewhite
"Red is dead".

You need to be able to identify your enemies at a fair distance (assuming your game wants PvP).

Now whether those are chosen at character creation, or flexible/changable player choices, honestly doesn't alter the basic PvP game a whole lot from the player side.

From the dev side, of course, first option is a whole lot simpler.  Maybe not "better", but certainly easier.

Is the distinction even meaningful in an age of "five bucks to change your class/race/faction/alignment/server/cosmetics/name/respec/etc"?  I mean, there are virtually no choices that are permanent any more, your character decisions rarely have real consequences.

Despite any dev comments or backstory 'adjustments', this is simply a matter of re-casting the lore to fit developmental conveniance.

 

I personally don't like it, and find it a bigger negative than some of the other issues that rile up the Elder Scrolls fanbase.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/26/12 1:23:45 PM#68
Originally posted by Arglebargle

Despite any dev comments or backstory 'adjustments', this is simply a matter of re-casting the lore to fit developmental conveniance.

I personally don't like it, and find it a bigger negative than some of the other issues that rile up the Elder Scrolls fanbase.

Sure.  Nobody wants to pay the five bucks, either.  But just ask Blizz what those server transfers earn them every year...

The "omg immersion is ruined" effect only lasts a few seconds.  Then, you're the newest Tauen Paladin getting to know your way around Thunder Bluff (or whatever).

But as long as your consequences are always changeable with a 'get out of jail free' card, the character generator can't be said to have many lasting effects.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/26/12 1:24:30 PM#69
I don't know, if I do play it, which is a big if with the megaserver thing, I will play a red guard. I'm guessing orcs and khajits will be popular too. Especially with tes 6 speculated to be based in elswyr.
  McGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

10/26/12 1:28:18 PM#70
I seriously hope ESO doesn't fall prey to changing their own lore just because of whining of a feature not being liked by a minority of gamers. Elder Scrolls has been around for quite a few years and no one has ever complained in the past about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore, so yes, those whining about this topic are in the minority. 
  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 713

10/26/12 3:04:17 PM#71
Originally posted by Czanrei
I seriously hope ESO doesn't fall prey to changing their own lore just because of whining of a feature not being liked by a minority of gamers. Elder Scrolls has been around for quite a few years and no one has ever complained in the past about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore, so yes, those whining about this topic are in the minority. 

Because there have never been any race-restricted factions in any of the games.

Even the most racially charged factions, like the Great Houses in Morrowind or the Stormcloaks in Skyrim, you could join as any race as long as you proved your loyalty.  Hell you could become Nerevarine as a damn Orc!

The restriction makes no sense in the lore, and only waters down the dynamic nature and freedom associated with TES.

It is an archaic carry-over from DAOC and in that game, made things get pretty stale and single-minded after a while.  It did NOT promote actual loyalty as some might think, it just forced it.

Now SWG, THAT was a game with true, fervent LOYALISTS in the empire or rebellion (technically JTL had three factions with the smuggler's guild), because they chose to be part of a faction and worked for it, instead of just being forced into it.

Regardless however, DAOC was never based on an IP that prided itself on freedom and exploration over any other element, so the arument is irrelevant.  Nobody was ever anticpating DAOC saying to themselves "Oh my god we get to explore ALL of Camelot!?  I've always wanted to do that!!!"  That's exactly what has been said about TES.

You shouldn't have to be an altaholic just to get your money's worth.

Lastly, if they let people be neutral and roam the world, it hurts NOBODY.  It is WIN-WIN.  PvPers will still PvP, PvErs will get the freedom they expect and Role-players will feel immersed in the diversity and integrated cultures that TES has always been about.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 916

 
OP  10/26/12 3:08:25 PM#72
Originally posted by Czanrei
I seriously hope ESO doesn't fall prey to changing their own lore just because of whining of a feature not being liked by a minority of gamers. Elder Scrolls has been around for quite a few years and no one has ever complained in the past about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore, so yes, those whining about this topic are in the minority. 

They are changing the lore to make the race/faction limits - not the other way around.  No one has ever complained about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore because THEY'VE NEVER DONE THAT!

  Sir7681

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 6

4/02/13 7:02:23 PM#73
My problem is, there's always been a little racism in elder scrolls, and that's expected, it's realistic...but it's a very small portion of the population, and everyone else lives peacefully together in regions OTHER than their own.  now the majority of the world is being forced into a being a racist who would kill (insert race here) on site....it's not believable.  To further stretch that, we're being told that we're getting along with other races that we've NEVER gotten along with before.  If that's not bad enough, add to that the fact that we're supposed to believe that after the war is over, there are no NEW racial disputes between these factions, but we instead went back to being mad at whatever race we didn't get along with in the first place.  wars don't make the whole world racist. Skyrim(the game) wasn't nords against the rest of the races who are part of the empire. Every race was allowed to choose a side, no race was required to choose either side, or any side at all.  That's how wars work, not everybody fights for a side, there really ARE neutral parties...as well as people who fight for the opposite side you'd expect them to support.  Does restricting races to specific factions make for better game play?  maybe it does.  That doesn't make it realistic, and it doesn't make it elder scrolls.  I was really looking forward to this game, but honestly, I don't think i want to play it anymore.  It just doesn't fit the reality they're supposed to be making it part of.
  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/02/13 8:46:04 PM#74
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Czanrei
I seriously hope ESO doesn't fall prey to changing their own lore just because of whining of a feature not being liked by a minority of gamers. Elder Scrolls has been around for quite a few years and no one has ever complained in the past about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore, so yes, those whining about this topic are in the minority. 

They are changing the lore to make the race/faction limits - not the other way around.  No one has ever complained about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore because THEY'VE NEVER DONE THAT!

Yes, that's because in every other ES game, races had very little meaning, you were just a dude thrown randomly into the same outcomes as everybody else.

Atleast this time there are three distinct, locked realms.

Some people are really digging deep into this "roleplay" thing, you're a human being playing a video game. Your race in said game does nothing, it is a virtual appearance. I just want to make sure that you are aware of this, it would be unhealthy if you didn't.

Have some realm pride for once, instead of just being another chump who joined a team.

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Miblet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 327

4/02/13 8:50:09 PM#75

'...and everyone else lives peacefully together in regions OTHER than their own.'

Before the events of Skyrim the Thalmor had removed all non mers from Summerset Isle. Racism has always existed in all their games from this IP and the world they portray has always been one kept in check by force of arms.  Peace was attained in many provinces through the Empire's armies, not because the local peoples thought the Empire was a great idea (just like the Romans that the Empire is based on).

Whilst it is true there are always those who obstain from conflicts and do not believe in the whims of rulers it is possible that the great many would fall in behind leaders.  It has happened throughout our history.  Is it so hard to believe that the rulers, of for example the Altmer, would whip their people into a frenzy and demonise potential enemies.

 

I'm not saying it was done for anything other than balance, but as said something had to give for their idea to be put into action for a 3 faction war.  Yes, they could have possibly handled it better but equally they could have done a great deal worse.  I don't think it will slow down players too much (considering I think the Ebonheart will be the most popular and thats the faction that makes probably the least sense).

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 916

 
OP  4/02/13 8:57:10 PM#76
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Czanrei
I seriously hope ESO doesn't fall prey to changing their own lore just because of whining of a feature not being liked by a minority of gamers. Elder Scrolls has been around for quite a few years and no one has ever complained in the past about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore, so yes, those whining about this topic are in the minority. 

They are changing the lore to make the race/faction limits - not the other way around.  No one has ever complained about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore because THEY'VE NEVER DONE THAT!

Yes, that's because in every other ES game, races had very little meaning, you were just a dude thrown randomly into the same outcomes as everybody else.

Atleast this time there are three distinct, locked realms.

Some people are really digging deep into this "roleplay" thing, you're a human being playing a video game. Your race in said game does nothing, it is a virtual appearance. I just want to make sure that you are aware of this, it would be unhealthy if you didn't.

Have some realm pride for once, instead of just being another chump who joined a team.

This isn't about accepting realm pride, they changed the 'style' of TES games to split the races into factions.  I had character pride in TES games, if I want faction pride I'll play CU.

  noncley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/12
Posts: 618

4/02/13 9:00:24 PM#77
Originally posted by kolargol
Restrictions in general are what make games more complex and deep. It forces you to learn to play around them thus adding more than just linear progression.

What? If you have to 'play around' a restriction then that means the restriction is wrong.

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/02/13 9:01:04 PM#78
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Czanrei
I seriously hope ESO doesn't fall prey to changing their own lore just because of whining of a feature not being liked by a minority of gamers. Elder Scrolls has been around for quite a few years and no one has ever complained in the past about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore, so yes, those whining about this topic are in the minority. 

They are changing the lore to make the race/faction limits - not the other way around.  No one has ever complained about race restricted factions set in stone by the lore because THEY'VE NEVER DONE THAT!

Yes, that's because in every other ES game, races had very little meaning, you were just a dude thrown randomly into the same outcomes as everybody else.

Atleast this time there are three distinct, locked realms.

Some people are really digging deep into this "roleplay" thing, you're a human being playing a video game. Your race in said game does nothing, it is a virtual appearance. I just want to make sure that you are aware of this, it would be unhealthy if you didn't.

Have some realm pride for once, instead of just being another chump who joined a team.

This isn't about accepting realm pride, they changed the 'style' of TES games to split the races into factions.  I had character pride in TES games, if I want faction pride I'll play CU.

Dude, don't even use that argument, I'm sure if all goes well, we will ALL have fun in CU... when the beta starts in TWO YEARS!

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

4/02/13 9:01:34 PM#79
Originally posted by sapphen

This isn't about accepting realm pride, they changed the 'style' of TES games to split the races into factions.  I had character pride in TES games, if I want faction pride I'll play CU.

Well, if you are willing to make us wait a couple years for CU then I guess its only fair for us to make you wait a couple years for the next TES game so you can have your character pride back.

 

Originally posted by Sentnl

Dude, don't even use that argument, I'm sure if all goes well, we will ALL have fun in CU... when the beta starts in TWO YEARS!

LOL :) Its ok, Sapphen is just going to play dumb until we get frustrated and walk away anyhow.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  User Deleted
4/02/13 9:11:21 PM#80
Originally posted by Sentnl

Yes, that's because in every other ES game, races had very little meaning, you were just a dude thrown randomly into the same outcomes as everybody else.

Atleast this time there are three distinct, locked realms.

Some people are really digging deep into this "roleplay" thing, you're a human being playing a video game. Your race in said game does nothing, it is a virtual appearance. I just want to make sure that you are aware of this, it would be unhealthy if you didn't.

Have some realm pride for once, instead of just being another chump who joined a team.

I try to imagine someone from Bethesda writing that.

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