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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Why do they have race limited factions?

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228 posts found
  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

 
OP  10/24/12 11:03:46 PM#21
Originally posted by Zylaxx

How can you say its outdated when its only been done 2 times before?  I know not everyone likes factions, but a free for all is not something that is conducive to good MMO gameplay.  There has to be some sembalnce of structure to promote development principles and what not.  All I can say is thank Effing God we didnt get another 2 faction game.

Well I do have to agree with you about the 2 factions.  I'm also not saying that there shouldn't be a faction choice in the game, FFA isn't that great (although being neutral could work if designed properly).

I'm talking about race/faction limitations in general (2 and 3 factions), which is something many MMOs do and something Elder Scrolls has never done.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

10/24/12 11:04:28 PM#22
Choices are hard.  But seriously this isnt an issue, it just requires a little foresight is all.
  Trudge34

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 385

10/24/12 11:05:30 PM#23
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Trudge34
I don't mind the race limited factions as much as you can't explore 2/3 of the world without creating another character within the other faction. You should be able to explore the whole world, but realize that you're going to be a hostile enemy in the other areas and prone to being killed by guards and towns people. 

That's another problem I have and I feel it's closely connected to the race/faction limitations.

where have they said you wont be able to explore 2/3 of the game world?  the game is still over a year away dont jump to conclusions so quickly.

I thought it's been common knowledge you can only explore your faction's area (as of now.) Forgive me if I'm wrong. I would hope they change it, but I bet the race factions are set in stone as of now. I'd much prefer you join, at your leisure, one of the factions later in the game. It would make much more sense if it was Companions / Fighters Guild vs. Dark Brotherhood / Thieves Guild vs Oblivion or something along the lines instead of by race. If you didn't want to dive into the faction vs faction PvP you shouldn't have to join any and enjoy the crafting and PvE experiences just the same IMO. Until I hear more, I really think they missed the mark in making an Elder Scrolls MMO here.

Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2

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  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

 
OP  10/24/12 11:18:39 PM#24
Originally posted by Zylaxx

I respect your opinion too, although it is wrong and one sided. 

However you do not know the back story to the world of Tramriel and I seriously doubt Bethesda would give ZOS the freedom to create a backstory without some guidance, I even believe Todd Howard said as much recently. 

You woudl have a point if TESO was set in the modern TES world, but no one, least of some unknown on a non specific gaming forum could possibly know the back story of a franchise.  Grrr it really chaps my arse when people think they know more then the developers and it shows a sense of arrogance that is truely more sickening then any fanboi could display.

Saying one is right or wrong is one sided imo.  I never said you was wrong, only that I did not agree. 

The developers are not gods with unlimited knowledge, they are people like us and they can make bad decisions.  Look at many of the games that has been released over the past few years.  Developers are given massive amounts of money by non-gamers that would rather play it safe or chase the giant rather than create a good game that represents the franchise.  Do I really need to list examples?

As a designer I believe there are many ways around problems, that's my job.  I do not accept that this is what they had to do - I felt it was a design decision to make TES more like a generic MMO instead of representing the IP.

  User Deleted
10/25/12 12:16:30 AM#25
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Zylaxx

I respect your opinion too, although it is wrong and one sided. 

However you do not know the back story to the world of Tramriel and I seriously doubt Bethesda would give ZOS the freedom to create a backstory without some guidance, I even believe Todd Howard said as much recently. 

You woudl have a point if TESO was set in the modern TES world, but no one, least of some unknown on a non specific gaming forum could possibly know the back story of a franchise.  Grrr it really chaps my arse when people think they know more then the developers and it shows a sense of arrogance that is truely more sickening then any fanboi could display.

Saying one is right or wrong is one sided imo.  I never said you was wrong, only that I did not agree. 

The developers are not gods with unlimited knowledge, they are people like us and they can make bad decisions.  Look at many of the games that has been released over the past few years.  Developers are given massive amounts of money by non-gamers that would rather play it safe or chase the giant rather than create a good game that represents the franchise.  Do I really need to list examples?

As a designer I believe there are many ways around problems, that's my job.  I do not accept that this is what they had to do - I felt it was a design decision to make TES more like a generic MMO instead of representing the IP.

Not really, they went with a model they felt comfortable with that could garner a good playerbase based o nthe highly successful and genre defing MMO DAoC especially seeing as there head guy is the guru behind DAoC, it became a non brainer.  Love it or leave it is al lyou can do.  Wil lit piss off TES purists?  Sure but they are willing to bet they can make head wind i nthe MM Omarket so its not up to you.

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 655

10/25/12 12:49:29 AM#26

Saw a thread on TES forums about this (I'm banned from there but can still read it - I was naughty and told them I didn't like the direction of the game...whoops).

I really like the OPs ideas, particularly idea 3, but I think 1 would be good too:

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1418917-faction-locking-opposes-faction-loyalty-poll-possible-solutions/

Here's the content so you don't have to click, I feel like this guy took the words outta my mouth.

SITUATION: Three factions. Three races per faction. Factions are locked into PvE zones, which are approximately 1/3rd of the total landmass of Tamriel, not counting the PvP zone Cyrodiil.

PROBLEM: A player who wants to explore all of Tamriel MUST roll at least three characters, one in each faction, to do so.

This we can all agree on. This has now been confirmed by multiple sources.

This practice will do the exact opposite of its intention. Its intention is to promote faction loyalty, whereas instead, most players will roll one character per faction, and thus dilute the loyalty that we've seen in other 3-way PvP games like Planetside and DAOC*.

Granted there will be some players who will stick to their own faction, but knowing that most MMORPG players are alt-rollers if not alt-a-holics, this will be the minority.

Personally, I am not an alt-a-holic. I like to have one character and stick with that character from beginning to end. 

Certainly many players will have a main, but we cannot discount the psychological implications of having characters in other factions leading to a lack of faction loyalty.

SOLUTION #1: Simplest solution. Players start as neutral. Players can journey to anywhere in Tamriel and quest, except for Cyrodiil. Each faction is still race-locked. At any time between level 10 and level 50, players have the option to join up with their race's faction and participate in PvP in Cyrodiil. If they do, they are warned that they will no longer be able to visit those other lands. If they sign up, they are now only able to go to their faction lands and Cyrodiil.

SOLUTION #2: A little more freedom. Same as solution #1, except that factions are not race-locked. However, if you are a race that wishes to join a different faction than the one that owns your race's lands, then you must go through a loyalty quest-line in their lands to earn the right to side with them and get them to trust you.

SOLUTION #3: The open pvp solution. Same as solution #2, except even after you have chosen a faction, you CAN still enter the other factions lands. You will be kill-on-sight to any faction NPCs or players, however.

Why do I find this so necessary? I personally believe that not only would any one of these create a more dynamic world, but it would enable players who wanted to experience the whole game on one character to do just that.

Please fill out the poll, I'll be interested to see how those fall, as they do pertain to the topic.

Also, if anyone has any other potential solutions to the problems presented above, please have at it! And let's please try to keep the discourse civil. It's fine if you disagree that this is even a problem in the first place, but try not to be too knee-jerk about it.

*In DAOC I played on an FFA server. I'm not sure if on other servers factions were locked into their zones, but it is irrelevant since DAOC was not based on any IP that its fans wanted to intricately explore.

I really hope they listen on this issue too, like they are sorta doing with the combat.  Neutrality would be awesome, and I think by and large the current system will be an annoying "worst of both worlds" situation.

  bingbongbros

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 534

10/25/12 12:52:53 AM#27

They have race restriction by faction because it is going to be 3 faction pvp.

 

They are trying to harken back to DAoC.  DAoC had race/faction restrictions so you knew what faction you were about to destroy when you saw a troll running by.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, TESO
Waiting On: Nothing. MMO's are dead.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

 
OP  10/25/12 1:05:49 AM#28
Originally posted by bingbongbros

They have race restriction by faction because it is going to be 3 faction pvp.

 

They are trying to harken back to DAoC.  DAoC had race/faction restrictions so you knew what faction you were about to destroy when you saw a troll running by.

I don't mind if they have 3 factions, I just think we should have a choice in what faction we choose... if any.

In addition, I don't think visual segregation is a strong enough point against it.  GW2 worked fine using multiple races in WvW combat, if I'm not mistaken WoW's pandas can be both factions and even in SWTOR you can be a race from a different faction through legacy.

Do the races they clumped together totally get along with each other?  Reminds me of the same issues with W:AR, they made two factions combined with races who really didn't like each other in the original lore.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

 
OP  10/25/12 1:15:58 AM#29
Originally posted by Zylaxx

Not really, they went with a model they felt comfortable with that could garner a good playerbase based o nthe highly successful and genre defing MMO DAoC especially seeing as there head guy is the guru behind DAoC, it became a non brainer.  Love it or leave it is al lyou can do.  Wil lit piss off TES purists?  Sure but they are willing to bet they can make head wind i nthe MM Omarket so its not up to you.

That's kind of my point.  Instead of improving and working with TES franchise they went with a model they felt they MMO players want.  How many times have we seen that backfire?

Yeah I get it, we all love our original MMOs but TES is an established IP that had an awesome core that many players enjoyed.  They could've built on to what they had instead of trying to reskin another game.

I don't even consider myself a TES purist, I'm just going by what I personally liked about the games.  Ultimately they're going to do whatever they please.  I'm just doing what I can to voice my concern.

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

10/25/12 1:19:43 AM#30

Factions locked races is one of the reasons I'm not interested in this game. I have played TES since Daggerfall and what I got away from all the TES games is freedom. For me they are destroying just that. 

Restricting factions by race is simply an outdated archaic model. This has nothing to do with DoaC RvR.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

 
OP  10/25/12 1:21:34 AM#31
Originally posted by Entinerint

SOLUTION #2: A little more freedom. Same as solution #1, except that factions are not race-locked. However, if you are a race that wishes to join a different faction than the one that owns your race's lands, then you must go through a loyalty quest-line in their lands to earn the right to side with them and get them to trust you.

SOLUTION #3: The open pvp solution. Same as solution #2, except even after you have chosen a faction, you CAN still enter the other factions lands. You will be kill-on-sight to any faction NPCs or players, however.

I like solutions 2 or 3.  This is kind of how I imagined they would do it.  I'm still shocked by the fact they split the races up into factions like that.

  bubaluba

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/12
Posts: 464

10/25/12 1:28:25 AM#32
Here we go again. Why this, why that.
  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 655

10/25/12 1:35:54 AM#33

Here is a quote: “it is always foolish to think of whole races sharing like minds.”

Can anybody guess where this quote is from?

[SPOILER WARNING]

IT'S FROM THE NUMANTIA INTERCEPT LETTERS - AN IN-GAME TEXT IN TES GAMES!!!

  bingbongbros

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 534

10/25/12 1:38:38 AM#34
Originally posted by Entinerint

Here is a quote: “it is always foolish to think of whole races sharing like minds.”

Can anybody guess where this quote is from?

[SPOILER WARNING]

IT'S FROM THE NUMANTIA INTERCEPT LETTERS - AN IN-GAME TEXT IN TES GAMES!!!

so is this for the racial restrictions or against it?

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, TESO
Waiting On: Nothing. MMO's are dead.

  uniqsnowflake

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 4

10/25/12 1:51:04 AM#35
Hard coded factions and the restrictions this creates is the biggest reason this game will fail. MMORPG players, or gamers in general, don't enjoy artificial barriers that stop them from entering different areas, nevermind 2/3 of the gameworld. There are plenty of ways around these barriers while keeping the RvR, the devs just chose the most easiest and dumbest way possible. And once again, the hardcore ESO fans see absolutely no problem with any of this, no changes needed... good job guys, you make sure nothing ever gets improved.
  User Deleted
10/25/12 1:53:53 AM#36
Originally posted by uniqsnowflake
Hard coded factions and the restrictions this creates is the biggest reason this game will fail. MMORPG players, or gamers in general, don't enjoy artificial barriers that stop them from entering different areas, nevermind 2/3 of the gameworld. There are plenty of ways around these barriers while keeping the RvR, the devs just chose the most easiest and dumbest way possible. And once again, the hardcore ESO fans see absolutely no problem with any of this, no changes needed... good job guys, you make sure nothing ever gets improved.

Spoken like someone who didnt play DAoC.

 

[mod edit]

  uniqsnowflake

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 4

10/25/12 2:04:27 AM#37
What part of my post is trolling? And what sort of argument is 'You didn't play DAoC!', when I'm only against the way they are implementing RvR? Entinerent posted other ways to do it. I find it absolutely hilarious that you accuse me of trolling when it's you who has posted in this thread several times telling people that 'no ur wrong cuz daoc', while you haven't given any opinion about Entinerent's list. Too hard for you?
  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 912

 
OP  10/25/12 1:51:43 PM#38

I want to clarify that I don't HATE the game nor do I want to bash it.  I'm not demanding that they change what they have, I'm just disappointed by the direction they took.  I feel like they could've kept some of the freedoms from TES and still make an excellent MMO.

I am also disappointed by the class and ability systems but from what I've read it may not be that bad.  Even still I feel they took unnecessary liberties with the IP but regardless I hope this game is successful for the developers, even if I don't like it.
  DeserttFoxx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/11/04
Posts: 2302

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10/25/12 1:54:56 PM#39
Originally posted by kolargol
Restrictions in general are what make games more complex and deep. It forces you to learn to play around them thus adding more than just linear progression.

except.. 

 

those restrictions dont exist in any elder scrolls game... ever.

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  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2621

10/25/12 1:58:40 PM#40
Originally posted by Connmacart

Factions locked races is one of the reasons I'm not interested in this game. I have played TES since Daggerfall and what I got away from all the TES games is freedom. For me they are destroying just that. 

Restricting factions by race is simply an outdated archaic model. This has nothing to do with DoaC RvR.

This.

And add to that the zone restriction, which as other people mentioned, would prevent a particular toon from exploring 2/3 of the game world.

Can't ever recall seeing that anywhere in the ES games...

 

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