Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

 

 

Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......

I really don't get why pve players turn everything into raging against the inclusion of pvp.  I myself love open world pvp.  Yet I also love player housing.  There's plenty of room to include both.    But such limited thinking like yours is why games fail.

sadly this game has turned into a massive disappointment before its even released.

i will revoke my wish for a fallout mmo if its likely to get the same treatment.

what worries me is will the mmo change the way the sp games are done? in order for it to be more "accessible" for its mmo players or some bs like that

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

which just shows that somewhere along the way, MMORPGs have become mutant twisted deformed freaks of what they should represent

Originally posted by darkehawke

what worries me is will the mmo change the way the sp games are done? in order for it to be more "accessible" for its mmo players or some bs like that

I personally think that won't be a concern.

Bethesda aren't the ones who are screwing up the MMO, Zenimax Online Studios are.

I'm hoping that Bethesda will be able to retain their autonomy when it comes to designing the games they're creating now and into the future (although I'm betting that the simplication they decided on when creating Skyrim was due to pressure from the guys in suits who wanted the game to have greater mass appeal by eliminating some of the RPG elements, not just the development team themselves).

The day that Zenimax Media starts telling Bethesda how to make their games is the day that half the staff at Bethesda quit.

Maybe then we'll see an Elder Scrolls-esque MMORPG if they form a new studio together.

Originally posted by darkehawke

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

which just shows that somewhere along the way, MMORPGs have become mutant twisted deformed freaks of what they should represent

I personally blame World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft came along and called itself an MMORPG, and its commercial success meant every other MMORPG developer after it decided to emulate its model, hoping their formula would work for them too.

It's gotten to the point now where people assume that every MMORPG out there plays like WoW or its numerous imitators. I've heard people say "I don't like MMORPG's" many times, who when queried on which MMORPG's they've played, reveal that WoW is the only MMORPG they've ever played.

"MMORPG" today is almost taken to mean 'a game like WoW' by a wide section of the population. Its almost like Xerox is to photocopier or Walkman is to portable cassette player.

For every WoW subscriber out there, there's probably 10 people who "don't like MMORPG's" because they played WoW. That's probably 100,000 who have it in their minds that they don't like "MMORPG's", and who will probably never try another MMORPG because they don't like WoW.

I'm one of the lucky ones who started my MMORPG career with Ultima Online, so I know there's other types of MMORPG there are out there, and my imagination of what an MMORPG could be isn't restricted to the confines of the WoW theme-park model.

Originally posted by Istavaan

Because zenimax want maximum profit with  low risk. it's basically a cash grab. they want box sales, so don't buy it.

They're already plotting the same course as SWTOR.  Also, It looks like a cartoon, which is mistake number two.

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......

Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.

I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).

To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?

There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.

My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.

(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......

 

Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.

 

I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).

 

To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?

There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.

 

 

My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.

 

 

 

(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)

I am going to say it again and perhaps this time someone will actually read it and maybe look into it.

1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.

2. Most games have housing. it might not be the housing any specific player wants but I dont think any player says 'this game sucks and is unplayable BECAUSE there are houses in it.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles

in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing

player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is

p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes

am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes

am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no

Originally posted by odinsrath

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles

in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing

player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is

p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes

am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes

am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no

people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.

People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.

People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by odinsrath

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles

in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing

player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is

p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes

am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes

am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no

people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.

People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.

People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.

 It doesnt matter if its a good or bad reason because its not going to be there either way. Holding off on housing because they knew players would want it a certain way but to them wasnt a feasible idea is fine. 

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.

PvP does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMO's. Just because you don't care for it, doesn't mean others don't. For me Everquest 2 housing IS the best aspect of the game.

Originally posted by SlyLoK

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by odinsrath

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles

in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing

player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is

p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes

am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes

am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no

people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.

People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.

People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.

 It doesnt matter if its a good or bad reason because its not going to be there either way. Holding off on housing because they knew players would want it a certain way but to them wasnt a feasible idea is fine. 

you dont understand.

They didnt say 'we are not doing housing and we might do it later'

they said

'housing is not possible as players want it'

so review.

1. they arent holding off they are not doing it, peroid.

2. they think its not possible.

3. they think they know what you and everyone else wants.

now I know a game is not a house or surgery but would you want someone that stupid to perform ANY service for you? of course not.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by odinsrath

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.

people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles

in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing

player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is

p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes

am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes

am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no

people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.

People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.

People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.

yes..some people in this thread are complaining that if it doesnt have player houseing ..its a wash / fail and they are not going to even pickup the title..and just because some twit came from their dev. team and said they wernt gonna have this nor that..does not mean they can change thier mind..nothing is written in stone..if the title picks up subs / fans ..they will add fluff..its what 90% of mmorpgs do

Originally posted by odinsrath

yes..some people in this thread are complaining that if it doesnt have player houseing ..its a wash / fail and they are not going to even pickup the title..and just because some twit came from their dev. team and said they wernt gonna have this nor that..does not mean they can change thier mind..nothing is written in stone..if the title picks up subs / fans ..they will add fluff..its what 90% of mmorpgs do

let me put it another way. How is it that you and I know more about what is possible and what could happen in the future than the staff at Zenimax?

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......

 

Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.

 

I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).

 To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?

There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.

 My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.

 

(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)

1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.

I haven't said it isn't possible.

I remember DF at launch. I actually think a little more focus would have done them the world of good.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......

 

Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.

 

I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).

 To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?

There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.

 My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.

 

(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)

1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.

 

I haven't said it isn't possible.

I remember DF at launch. I actually think a little more focus would have done them the world of good.

 

 

you are suggesting, in short, that AV had more resources aviable to do this then Zenimax does. Sorry I have to be so explict I thought my point was understood.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by MikeJT

No player housing? Why not? 

Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.

Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......

 

Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.

 

I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).

 To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?

There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.

 My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.

 

(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)

1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.

I haven't said it isn't possible.

I remember DF at launch. I actually think a little more focus would have done them the world of good.

you are suggesting, in short, that AV had more resources aviable to do this then Zenimax does. Sorry I have to be so explict I thought my point was understood.

Don't put words in to my mouth.

No, I am not saying that.

I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.

That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.

Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.

Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

Don't put words in to my mouth.

No, I am not saying that.

I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.

That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.

Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.

 

Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.

 

 

look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.

There is very little wrong with Darkfall game itself. All of it is nothing more than balancing and a sociopathic community that knows only how to complain.