Originally posted by Uhwop

If the scans are real, then I would say yes it is.

And for no other reason then because the devs in the article chose to make it a point to compare just about every feature of the game with with WoW, and state that they will function the same.

If you tell me you're making a product, and you choose to compare your product to another existing product, and tell me that it will function like that other product, I have no choice but to come away with the impression that you're atttempting to emulate that other product.  In that regard, yes, you made a clone.

You and I obviously view WOW comparisons differently when they're made in mainstream articles. WOW is simply the face of the MMO to the broader gaming public, they could say well it's like DAOC, but how many outside of the older MMO space are going to be able to relate to that message and understand it?

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Uhwop

If the scans are real, then I would say yes it is.

And for no other reason then because the devs in the article chose to make it a point to compare just about every feature of the game with with WoW, and state that they will function the same.

If you tell me you're making a product, and you choose to compare your product to another existing product, and tell me that it will function like that other product, I have no choice but to come away with the impression that you're atttempting to emulate that other product.  In that regard, yes, you made a clone.

You might have something there. Enought of what was revealed sounded different enough for me not to call it a WoW clone but the fact that they said "like WoW" is pretty damning.

 Doesn't mean it'll be bad, and that's about the only thing I think people are wrong in stating.  Say what you will, until people can get hands on with a game, you can't know it's value.

But, if you're selling me apples, and you tell me they were grown and taste just like a granny smith apple, then I would have to believe you're selling me a granny smith apple.

My issue is, if granny smith told me they were making an apple pie out of granny smith apples for everyone that loves granny smith apples, and they try and sell me mincmeat pie, I'm not gonna buy it.  I would also encourage anyone else that loves granny smith apples to not buy it as well.

In the end I won't care if it's a good game or not, because the very first thing you told me was, "we're finally making the ES mmo that the fans have always wanted."  No fan ever wanted an ES mmo that had any resemblence to WoW.  If you don't make a morrowind/ oblivion/ skyrim game with a dedicated internet connection that allows me to play with thousands of other poeple, then you sure as hell are not making an ES MMO that the fans have always wanted.  You're making an MMO of DAoC and WoW fans. 

I don't understand the exclusion of housing..

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Uhwop

If the scans are real, then I would say yes it is.

And for no other reason then because the devs in the article chose to make it a point to compare just about every feature of the game with with WoW, and state that they will function the same.

If you tell me you're making a product, and you choose to compare your product to another existing product, and tell me that it will function like that other product, I have no choice but to come away with the impression that you're atttempting to emulate that other product.  In that regard, yes, you made a clone.

You might have something there. Enought of what was revealed sounded different enough for me not to call it a WoW clone but the fact that they said "like WoW" is pretty damning.

 Doesn't mean it'll be bad, and that's about the only thing I think people are wrong in stating.  Say what you will, until people can get hands on with a game, you can't know it's value.

But, if you're selling me apples, and you tell me they were grown and taste just like a granny smith apple, then I would have to believe you're selling me a granny smith apple.

My issue is, if granny smith told me they were making an apple pie out of granny smith apples for everyone that loves granny smith apples, and they try and sell me mincmeat pie, I'm not gonna buy it.  I would also encourage anyone else that loves granny smith apples to not buy it as well.

In the end I won't care if it's a good game or not, because the very first thing you told me was, "we're finally making the ES mmo that the fans have always wanted."  No fan ever wanted an ES mmo that had any resemblence to WoW.  If you don't make a morrowind/ oblivion/ skyrim game with a dedicated internet connection that allows me to play with thousands of other poeple, then you sure as hell are not making an ES MMO that the fans have always wanted.  You're making an MMO of DAoC and WoW fans. 

I agree with you there 100%

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

 Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things. 

 

so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P

 

edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it.  Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.

 

Two things...

1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.

2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.

Originally posted by MMOExposed
But can anybody explain to me how it's a WoW Clone?

Why don't you read the data and find by yourself, you need someone to draw you a picture or something?

Originally posted by Requiamer

Originally posted by MMOExposed
But can anybody explain to me how it's a WoW Clone?

Why don't you read the data and find by yourself, you need someone to draw you a picture or something?

Why don't you read it, doesn't seem that you have.

Its at least not  TRUE  TES game TESO is something else then solo rpg series TES IS FAMOUS for, some names are glued on the MMO thats from TES series thats all.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Uhwop

If the scans are real, then I would say yes it is.

And for no other reason then because the devs in the article chose to make it a point to compare just about every feature of the game with with WoW, and state that they will function the same.

If you tell me you're making a product, and you choose to compare your product to another existing product, and tell me that it will function like that other product, I have no choice but to come away with the impression that you're atttempting to emulate that other product.  In that regard, yes, you made a clone.

You and I obviously view WOW comparisons differently when they're made in mainstream articles. WOW is simply the face of the MMO to the broader gaming public, they could say well it's like DAOC, but how many outside of the older MMO space are going to be able to relate to that message and understand it?

 Please link me to an article were the developers for an upcoming MMO compare every feature of thier game to WoW and state that it will function just like WoW. 

Even when theier features are and do resemble WoW, they don't tell you that. 

Everything I read was just excuses for why the game will play exactly like wow, and that we should "give it a chance" because it's got the ES name on it.   That may be ok for you, but not me.

If you're trying to sell me crap then tell me it's crap, don't try and sell me crap and say it's roses; I know the difference.

They could just make Morrowind with online play, and every single fan of ES would immediately know how to play it.  Or do you really think you're not intelligent enough to "understand how to play" it if it didn't have "world of warcraft controls"?

BTW:  I played DAoC.  RVR is the only diffierence between WoW and DAoC.  Everything about how those to games are played are the same.  Were do you think Blizzard got the idea for instanced small team based BG's and the 40vs40 alterac valley?  Blizzard didn't just copy EQ, they also copied DAoC.  And blizzard never referenced their mechanics to any other MMO, other then to say that they "looked at what worked and what didn't" or "what was fun and what wasn't" and refined those aspects to create a better experience then previous MMO's offered. 

I wouldnt say its a WoW  Clone as "clone" would mean a copy of WoW.

 

However, I do see it as a Themepark Clone.

Its basically going to be a Frankenstien Monster of EQ, DAOC, WoW, WAR, RIFT, SWTOR and all the other Themeparks with an Elder Scrolls skin

 

Been there, done that for the last 12 years

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

its a single player game. there are no mmo terms for single player games.  

Except the sandbox term also extends to single player games, other than that you are correct

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

 Its not a wow clone per se. Its just a term that people use for 'omgyetanotherthemeparkgame' games with publishers afraid of losing money on possible innovative/non-standard things. 

 

so its not a wow clone, its just another themepark game and to make things worse, its using the name of worlds biggest and proably most famous sandbox single player series. To me it comapares to something like... they make a Fifa Online game thats not about football but basketball, with fifa's name on it. its that weird :P

 

edit: the game is everything that its single player series arent. Thats its biggest problem, and thats what all this fuss is about. It wouldnt be that bad if they used some other IP, but people who play and like TES like it for what is it.  Last thing i want to play now is another wow/swtor with different skins.

 

Two things...

1) TES is not a Sandbox. It's open world RPG, not Sandbox. Themepark MMORPG been doing that for years, going back to EQ1.

2) like when has Sandbox MMO ever been innovating? Sandbox MMO innovate less than Themepark MMO do. So I have no idea how anybody can link the two (Sandbox & Innovation ) together.

EVE Online... why not the most enjoyable game and very unforgiving but it does have it's sizeable fanbase and sure as hell a lot more innovative than the majority of games out there.

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DSWBeef

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

To consider the TES series a themepark is laughable. Is it a pull sandbox? No it is not but its definately not a themepark.

This is the problem with labels, everyone has their own idea of what exactly a label means. I can see the themepark comparison more than I can see a sandbox one, going on my own idea of what a themepark usually entails. But is it really that important or mean all that much in the end? WOW is a themepark but so was DAOC, these games are nothing alike yet they fall in the same labelled category, TES may not be like WOW, but it shares many of the same characteristics of games that have been labelled in such a way. Mainly open world adventuring, vanguard comes to mind really fast on that topic. Not minecraft or wurm.

To be fair TES does lean very far twords being a sandbox. The only thing it needs to fit into the category is the ability to generate content in some way as a part of gameplay and not through mods.

 

But that apply to any MMO actually. Any THEMEPARK with those elements of gameplay would be a sandbox now. Imagine if World of Warcraft, added a new major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world and change the world. It would be sandbox now, even though it's the same game. Just with features that define a sandbox. This is why there is not true definition of a sandbox and theme park.

TES is a THEMEPARK single player game. Not sandbox at all. Adding sandbox features to it, just like adding sandbox features to any THEMEPARK will make it more sandbox actually.

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

its a single player game. there are no mmo terms for single player games.  

 

Yes there is... We call it Solo gameplay. Aka questing and exploring. Themepark 101

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Uhwop

If the scans are real, then I would say yes it is.

And for no other reason then because the devs in the article chose to make it a point to compare just about every feature of the game with with WoW, and state that they will function the same.

If you tell me you're making a product, and you choose to compare your product to another existing product, and tell me that it will function like that other product, I have no choice but to come away with the impression that you're atttempting to emulate that other product.  In that regard, yes, you made a clone.

You and I obviously view WOW comparisons differently when they're made in mainstream articles. WOW is simply the face of the MMO to the broader gaming public, they could say well it's like DAOC, but how many outside of the older MMO space are going to be able to relate to that message and understand it?

 Please link me to an article were the developers for an upcoming MMO compare every feature of thier game to WoW and state that it will function just like WoW. 

Even when theier features are and do resemble WoW, they don't tell you that. 

Everything I read was just excuses for why the game will play exactly like wow, and that we should "give it a chance" because it's got the ES name on it.   That may be ok for you, but not me.

If you're trying to sell me crap then tell me it's crap, don't try and sell me crap and say it's roses; I know the difference.

They could just make Morrowind with online play, and every single fan of ES would immediately know how to play it.  Or do you really think you're not intelligent enough to "understand how to play" it if it didn't have "world of warcraft controls"?

BTW:  I played DAoC.  RVR is the only diffierence between WoW and DAoC.  Everything about how those to games are played are the same.  Were do you think Blizzard got the idea for instanced small team based BG's and the 40vs40 alterac valley?  Blizzard didn't just copy EQ, they also copied DAoC.  And blizzard never referenced their mechanics to any other MMO, other then to say that they "looked at what worked and what didn't" or "what was fun and what wasn't" and refined those aspects to create a better experience then previous MMO's offered. 

Well first DAOC and WOW handled dungeons and things like that completely different, quests as well.

You really didn't hit on the point I was making though, this isn't about what every company does, just how I view the comparison of WOW when speaking to the public.

Now for your question plenty of devs have used WOW to explain features in their games in public venues. It's been going on for years.

 

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DSWBeef

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

To consider the TES series a themepark is laughable. Is it a pull sandbox? No it is not but its definately not a themepark.

This is the problem with labels, everyone has their own idea of what exactly a label means. I can see the themepark comparison more than I can see a sandbox one, going on my own idea of what a themepark usually entails. But is it really that important or mean all that much in the end? WOW is a themepark but so was DAOC, these games are nothing alike yet they fall in the same labelled category, TES may not be like WOW, but it shares many of the same characteristics of games that have been labelled in such a way. Mainly open world adventuring, vanguard comes to mind really fast on that topic. Not minecraft or wurm.

To be fair TES does lean very far twords being a sandbox. The only thing it needs to fit into the category is the ability to generate content in some way as a part of gameplay and not through mods.

 

But that apply to any MMO actually. Any THEMEPARK with those elements of gameplay would be a sandbox now. Imagine if World of Warcraft, added a new major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world and change the world. It would be sandbox now, even though it's the same game. Just with features that define a sandbox. This is why there is not true definition of a sandbox and theme park.

TES is a THEMEPARK single player game. Not sandbox at all. Adding sandbox features to it, just like adding sandbox features to any THEMEPARK will make it more sandbox actually.

That would qualify it as a sandbox. It would be a bad sandbox but a sandbox nonetheless.

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DSWBeef

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

To consider the TES series a themepark is laughable. Is it a pull sandbox? No it is not but its definately not a themepark.

This is the problem with labels, everyone has their own idea of what exactly a label means. I can see the themepark comparison more than I can see a sandbox one, going on my own idea of what a themepark usually entails. But is it really that important or mean all that much in the end? WOW is a themepark but so was DAOC, these games are nothing alike yet they fall in the same labelled category, TES may not be like WOW, but it shares many of the same characteristics of games that have been labelled in such a way. Mainly open world adventuring, vanguard comes to mind really fast on that topic. Not minecraft or wurm.

To be fair TES does lean very far twords being a sandbox. The only thing it needs to fit into the category is the ability to generate content in some way as a part of gameplay and not through mods.

 

But that apply to any MMO actually. Any THEMEPARK with those elements of gameplay would be a sandbox now. Imagine if World of Warcraft, added a new major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world and change the world. It would be sandbox now, even though it's the same game. Just with features that define a sandbox. This is why there is not true definition of a sandbox and theme park.

TES is a THEMEPARK single player game. Not sandbox at all. Adding sandbox features to it, just like adding sandbox features to any THEMEPARK will make it more sandbox actually.

That would qualify it as a sandbox. It would be a bad sandbox but a sandbox nonetheless.

 

That's what I said. Any THEMEPARK with those features would now be a sandbox. But without those features , it's still a THEMEPARK.

Like in my World of Warcraft example,

World of Warcraft in its current form is a THEMEPARK MMO to most people, but if Blizzard added a major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world, and change the world, it would be a sandbox now. But without those features being added from the patch, it would have been a THEMEPARK. TES is in the same boat. Yeah you can add sandbox features to it to make it a sandbox,

But why would you need to do that, if it's already a sandbox like so many people claim?


TES is a open world RPG. Not Sandbox. All MMO should have open worlds(Sandbox and Themepark). That doesn't define a sandbox.

Most of the gameplay elements from TES, are the same solo quest and venture elements found in standard THEMEPARK solo gameplay.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DSWBeef

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

To consider the TES series a themepark is laughable. Is it a pull sandbox? No it is not but its definately not a themepark.

This is the problem with labels, everyone has their own idea of what exactly a label means. I can see the themepark comparison more than I can see a sandbox one, going on my own idea of what a themepark usually entails. But is it really that important or mean all that much in the end? WOW is a themepark but so was DAOC, these games are nothing alike yet they fall in the same labelled category, TES may not be like WOW, but it shares many of the same characteristics of games that have been labelled in such a way. Mainly open world adventuring, vanguard comes to mind really fast on that topic. Not minecraft or wurm.

To be fair TES does lean very far twords being a sandbox. The only thing it needs to fit into the category is the ability to generate content in some way as a part of gameplay and not through mods.

 

But that apply to any MMO actually. Any THEMEPARK with those elements of gameplay would be a sandbox now. Imagine if World of Warcraft, added a new major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world and change the world. It would be sandbox now, even though it's the same game. Just with features that define a sandbox. This is why there is not true definition of a sandbox and theme park.

TES is a THEMEPARK single player game. Not sandbox at all. Adding sandbox features to it, just like adding sandbox features to any THEMEPARK will make it more sandbox actually.

That would qualify it as a sandbox. It would be a bad sandbox but a sandbox nonetheless.

 

That's what I said. Any THEMEPARK with those features would now be a sandbox. But without those features , it's still a THEMEPARK.

Like in my World of Warcraft example,

World of Warcraft in its current form is a THEMEPARK MMO to most people, but if Blizzard added a major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world, and change the world, it would be a sandbox now. But without those features being added from the patch, it would have been a THEMEPARK. TES is in the same boat. Yeah you can add sandbox features to it to make it a sandbox,

But why would you need to do that, if it's already a sandbox like so many people claim?


TES is a open world RPG. Not Sandbox. All MMO should have open worlds(Sandbox and Themepark). That doesn't define a sandbox.

Most of the gameplay elements from TES, are the same solo quest and venture elements found in standard THEMEPARK solo gameplay.

Wouldn't features of both make it a sandpark?  You can't be a full blown sandbox by offering one or two sandbox features.  That's like calling GW2 a FPS because it has quasi twich combat.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DSWBeef

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

To consider the TES series a themepark is laughable. Is it a pull sandbox? No it is not but its definately not a themepark.

This is the problem with labels, everyone has their own idea of what exactly a label means. I can see the themepark comparison more than I can see a sandbox one, going on my own idea of what a themepark usually entails. But is it really that important or mean all that much in the end? WOW is a themepark but so was DAOC, these games are nothing alike yet they fall in the same labelled category, TES may not be like WOW, but it shares many of the same characteristics of games that have been labelled in such a way. Mainly open world adventuring, vanguard comes to mind really fast on that topic. Not minecraft or wurm.

To be fair TES does lean very far twords being a sandbox. The only thing it needs to fit into the category is the ability to generate content in some way as a part of gameplay and not through mods.

 

But that apply to any MMO actually. Any THEMEPARK with those elements of gameplay would be a sandbox now. Imagine if World of Warcraft, added a new major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world and change the world. It would be sandbox now, even though it's the same game. Just with features that define a sandbox. This is why there is not true definition of a sandbox and theme park.

TES is a THEMEPARK single player game. Not sandbox at all. Adding sandbox features to it, just like adding sandbox features to any THEMEPARK will make it more sandbox actually.

That would qualify it as a sandbox. It would be a bad sandbox but a sandbox nonetheless.

 

That's what I said. Any THEMEPARK with those features would now be a sandbox. But without those features , it's still a THEMEPARK.

Like in my World of Warcraft example,

World of Warcraft in its current form is a THEMEPARK MMO to most people, but if Blizzard added a major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world, and change the world, it would be a sandbox now. But without those features being added from the patch, it would have been a THEMEPARK. TES is in the same boat. Yeah you can add sandbox features to it to make it a sandbox,

But why would you need to do that, if it's already a sandbox like so many people claim?


TES is a open world RPG. Not Sandbox. All MMO should have open worlds(Sandbox and Themepark). That doesn't define a sandbox.

Most of the gameplay elements from TES, are the same solo quest and venture elements found in standard THEMEPARK solo gameplay.

Wouldn't features of both make it a sandpark?  You can't be a full blown sandbox by offering one or two sandbox features.  That's like calling GW2 a FPS because it has quasi twich combat.

I totally agree with u on this one u cant specify the "type" of a mmorpg just because it have one or two features that reminds u of something.

Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by DSWBeef

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

its not a themepark. fact.

It is an open world rpg. In mmo terms it is a themepark.

To consider the TES series a themepark is laughable. Is it a pull sandbox? No it is not but its definately not a themepark.

This is the problem with labels, everyone has their own idea of what exactly a label means. I can see the themepark comparison more than I can see a sandbox one, going on my own idea of what a themepark usually entails. But is it really that important or mean all that much in the end? WOW is a themepark but so was DAOC, these games are nothing alike yet they fall in the same labelled category, TES may not be like WOW, but it shares many of the same characteristics of games that have been labelled in such a way. Mainly open world adventuring, vanguard comes to mind really fast on that topic. Not minecraft or wurm.

To be fair TES does lean very far twords being a sandbox. The only thing it needs to fit into the category is the ability to generate content in some way as a part of gameplay and not through mods.

 

But that apply to any MMO actually. Any THEMEPARK with those elements of gameplay would be a sandbox now. Imagine if World of Warcraft, added a new major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world and change the world. It would be sandbox now, even though it's the same game. Just with features that define a sandbox. This is why there is not true definition of a sandbox and theme park.

TES is a THEMEPARK single player game. Not sandbox at all. Adding sandbox features to it, just like adding sandbox features to any THEMEPARK will make it more sandbox actually.

That would qualify it as a sandbox. It would be a bad sandbox but a sandbox nonetheless.

 

That's what I said. Any THEMEPARK with those features would now be a sandbox. But without those features , it's still a THEMEPARK.

Like in my World of Warcraft example,

World of Warcraft in its current form is a THEMEPARK MMO to most people, but if Blizzard added a major patch tomorrow that allow players to build on the world, and change the world, it would be a sandbox now. But without those features being added from the patch, it would have been a THEMEPARK. TES is in the same boat. Yeah you can add sandbox features to it to make it a sandbox,

But why would you need to do that, if it's already a sandbox like so many people claim?


TES is a open world RPG. Not Sandbox. All MMO should have open worlds(Sandbox and Themepark). That doesn't define a sandbox.

Most of the gameplay elements from TES, are the same solo quest and venture elements found in standard THEMEPARK solo gameplay.

Wouldn't features of both make it a sandpark?  You can't be a full blown sandbox by offering one or two sandbox features.  That's like calling GW2 a FPS because it has quasi twich combat.

I totally agree with u on this one u cant specify the "type" of a mmorpg just because it have one or two features that reminds u of something.

 

Than why is TES a sandbox?