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Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » ESO Console version delayed 6 months. (Both official and non official see inside for details)

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64 posts found
  User Deleted
5/08/14 2:41:13 PM#41
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by DEAD.line
Originally posted by SalmonMan

I'M SHOCKED! said no one ever.

Good to see they are going to take the extra time to polish the game for consoles, huh? Shame they didn't do the same for the PC port.

Whoops, I mean PC version.

Huh, when something is ported over, it released in another system first. The pc version is the first version, so it's a pc port to console.

Apparently, they edited it out. The storefaq no longer shows the console released at all. Wonder if it was a bug on Zenimax. 

But on a different note, it's great that they'll will allow players to transfer their pc characters to console. Nice move Zenimax.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

5/08/14 3:06:42 PM#42

So a delay of "about 6 months" to tackle "network issues" that .......they totally failed to anticipate. That is a long time - on top of however long they allowed initially.

They've not even committed to "later this year" either. Although I'm sure Zenimax would want to release before Christmas; possibly even before Thanksgiving in the US (back end of Nov). Not to mention a host of other titles that are planned for the back end of the year - which will compete for purchasers, shelf space, and reviewers time. Will be interesting to see how Dragon Age fares (Oct 7 launch, delayed from last year). 

Could be an expensive delay potentially- and certainly makes a mockery of it coming "unfinished" on PC. Did those who called the PC launch simply a paid beta for the console launch get it right? 

  Alber_gamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 478

5/08/14 3:11:55 PM#43
Oh, now I get it. They are delaying the console release 6 months so that it's in time with their transition to F2P, and console users just have to download the client.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  StrixMaxima

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 890

5/08/14 3:16:02 PM#44
Originally posted by gervaise1

So a delay of "about 6 months" to tackle "network issues" that .......they totally failed to anticipate. That is a long time - on top of however long they allowed initially.

They've not even committed to "later this year" either. Although I'm sure Zenimax would want to release before Christmas; possibly even before Thanksgiving in the US (back end of Nov). Not to mention a host of other titles that are planned for the back end of the year - which will compete for purchasers, shelf space, and reviewers time. Will be interesting to see how Dragon Age fares (Oct 7 launch, delayed from last year). 

Could be an expensive delay potentially- and certainly makes a mockery of it coming "unfinished" on PC. Did those who called the PC launch simply a paid beta for the console launch get it right? 

No MMO is ever finished. TESO's launch was not flawless, but it was definitely not a tragedy. I frankly don't know what people expect from a first-day MMO. WoW had some quests bugged for years.

I see their date as a realistic launch for consoles, and not being overly aggressive for xmas sales is a good indication that they have a solid financial fulcrum.

But, of course, people can read whatever they want in pretty much anything.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6132

5/08/14 3:25:52 PM#45
Originally posted by gervaise1

So a delay of "about 6 months" to tackle "network issues" that .......they totally failed to anticipate. That is a long time - on top of however long they allowed initially.

They've not even committed to "later this year" either. Although I'm sure Zenimax would want to release before Christmas; possibly even before Thanksgiving in the US (back end of Nov). Not to mention a host of other titles that are planned for the back end of the year - which will compete for purchasers, shelf space, and reviewers time. Will be interesting to see how Dragon Age fares (Oct 7 launch, delayed from last year). 

Could be an expensive delay potentially- and certainly makes a mockery of it coming "unfinished" on PC. Did those who called the PC launch simply a paid beta for the console launch get it right? 

I am not buying the network integration issue line.

Sure MS Xbox network requires installing internet facing Xbox proxy servers, PS network integration is WAY simpler, there are no special servers to config like MS Xbox network requires - but even the worst case scenario doesn't take 6 months.

Maybe they failed to cert with both Sony and MS - but a cert failure delays you by a month or two worst case scenario.

There's bigger issues behind the scenes that they are not willing to discuss with the public.

 

  CoffeeBreak

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/14
Posts: 245

5/08/14 3:33:05 PM#46
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by gervaise1

So a delay of "about 6 months" to tackle "network issues" that .......they totally failed to anticipate. That is a long time - on top of however long they allowed initially.

They've not even committed to "later this year" either. Although I'm sure Zenimax would want to release before Christmas; possibly even before Thanksgiving in the US (back end of Nov). Not to mention a host of other titles that are planned for the back end of the year - which will compete for purchasers, shelf space, and reviewers time. Will be interesting to see how Dragon Age fares (Oct 7 launch, delayed from last year). 

Could be an expensive delay potentially- and certainly makes a mockery of it coming "unfinished" on PC. Did those who called the PC launch simply a paid beta for the console launch get it right? 

I am not buying the network integration issue line.

Sure MS Xbox network requires installing internet facing Xbox proxy servers, PS network integration is WAY simpler, there are no special servers to config like MS Xbox network requires - but even the worst case scenario doesn't take 6 months.

Maybe they failed to cert with both Sony and MS - but a cert failure delays you by a month or two worst case scenario.

There's bigger issues behind the scenes that they are not willing to discuss with the public.

 

 

Definitely is a curious situation.  Maybe it's like Skyrim for the PS3.  It was broken, they knew it was broken, but released it anyway. 

 

I still don't have issues with the PC version.  At this point I encounter an average of 0 bugged quests a day.  As for all the people that just don't like the game....6 months isn't enough time to completely remake the game to try to change all the complaints players have with it.

 

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

5/08/14 3:52:52 PM#47
Originally posted by StrixMaxima
Originally posted by gervaise1

 

No MMO is ever finished. TESO's launch was not flawless, but it was definitely not a tragedy. I frankly don't know what people expect from a first-day MMO. WoW had some quests bugged for years.

I see their date as a realistic launch for consoles, and not being overly aggressive for xmas sales is a good indication that they have a solid financial fulcrum.

But, of course, people can read whatever they want in pretty much anything.

TESO launched unfinished on PC. Sure you can always add new content but bugs are bugs. Read the recent interviews about FFXIV: one of the top 3 reasons for it failing was developers believing they could launch with bugs and patch downstream. In other words your attitude is promoting failure. Zenimax knew that TESO had bugs and launched anyway; would a month delay have hurt financially?. Maybe they needed the money? That is why VSoH launched early. We can't say - so your comment about solid financial fulcrum has no basis. Nor is there anything in what they have said to suggest that a 6 month delay - on top of what they have already planned - is realistic. I share DMKano's view they have glossed over deeper issues.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3064

5/08/14 4:33:16 PM#48
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by gervaise1

So a delay of "about 6 months" to tackle "network issues" that .......they totally failed to anticipate. That is a long time - on top of however long they allowed initially.

They've not even committed to "later this year" either. Although I'm sure Zenimax would want to release before Christmas; possibly even before Thanksgiving in the US (back end of Nov). Not to mention a host of other titles that are planned for the back end of the year - which will compete for purchasers, shelf space, and reviewers time. Will be interesting to see how Dragon Age fares (Oct 7 launch, delayed from last year). 

Could be an expensive delay potentially- and certainly makes a mockery of it coming "unfinished" on PC. Did those who called the PC launch simply a paid beta for the console launch get it right? 

I am not buying the network integration issue line.

Sure MS Xbox network requires installing internet facing Xbox proxy servers, PS network integration is WAY simpler, there are no special servers to config like MS Xbox network requires - but even the worst case scenario doesn't take 6 months.

Maybe they failed to cert with both Sony and MS - but a cert failure delays you by a month or two worst case scenario.

There's bigger issues behind the scenes that they are not willing to discuss with the public.

 

I have no idea how ZOS's "megaserver" is integrated with the internet or how they handle load-balancing and phasing. But I don't find it massively far-fetched to imagine that integrating an extra layer to serve consoles might just introduce some tricky situations.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that the console layer is fairly inflexible ("our way or the highway"). Unless you have an intimate understanding of ESO's particular system design and unique complexities, it may be a bit cavalier to dismiss their reasons out of hand.

 

It's always more fun to imagine deep and dark conspiracies behind seemingly straight-forward problems. But perhaps the truth is no more sinister than someone at ZOS thinking: "It can't be that hard, can it ?" during their console integration planning phase, only to find out that it was much harder than estimated during implementation.

  StrixMaxima

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 890

5/08/14 4:58:54 PM#49
Originally posted by gervaise1

TESO launched unfinished on PC. Sure you can always add new content but bugs are bugs. Read the recent interviews about FFXIV: one of the top 3 reasons for it failing was developers believing they could launch with bugs and patch downstream. In other words your attitude is promoting failure. Zenimax knew that TESO had bugs and launched anyway; would a month delay have hurt financially?. Maybe they needed the money? That is why VSoH launched early. We can't say - so your comment about solid financial fulcrum has no basis. Nor is there anything in what they have said to suggest that a 6 month delay - on top of what they have already planned - is realistic. I share DMKano's view they have glossed over deeper issues.

As there is no basis comments about any company's financial situation (unless of course you work there or you have insider info about it): they are simply opinions. Stating that they have no basis is that kind of empty power commentary. But, just repeating the obvious, this is how I think it pans out. YMMV.

Again, going live presents a plethora of issues that more controlled environments don't. I still think that the amount of bugs presented in the launch was minimal and comparing it to a nightmare scenario such as the previous incarnation of FFXIV just reiterates it.

Again, loathe to use WoW as an exemple, but people tend to forget that WoW's lauch was riddled with issues, bugs, connectivity problems and the such. Has this promoted failure for them? Hardly.

Things are a bit more complex and nuanced than people usually consider.

  JDis25

Elite Member

Joined: 4/27/14
Posts: 393

5/08/14 5:07:22 PM#50

What we have learned so far is that

Zenimax are liars, love money, and have questionable business strategies..

 

That being said they really made an awesome game(even though it was rushed). I hope they don't go overboard with their less favorable qualities.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6132

5/08/14 5:15:59 PM#51
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by gervaise1

So a delay of "about 6 months" to tackle "network issues" that .......they totally failed to anticipate. That is a long time - on top of however long they allowed initially.

They've not even committed to "later this year" either. Although I'm sure Zenimax would want to release before Christmas; possibly even before Thanksgiving in the US (back end of Nov). Not to mention a host of other titles that are planned for the back end of the year - which will compete for purchasers, shelf space, and reviewers time. Will be interesting to see how Dragon Age fares (Oct 7 launch, delayed from last year). 

Could be an expensive delay potentially- and certainly makes a mockery of it coming "unfinished" on PC. Did those who called the PC launch simply a paid beta for the console launch get it right? 

I am not buying the network integration issue line.

Sure MS Xbox network requires installing internet facing Xbox proxy servers, PS network integration is WAY simpler, there are no special servers to config like MS Xbox network requires - but even the worst case scenario doesn't take 6 months.

Maybe they failed to cert with both Sony and MS - but a cert failure delays you by a month or two worst case scenario.

There's bigger issues behind the scenes that they are not willing to discuss with the public.

 

I have no idea how ZOS's "megaserver" is integrated with the internet or how they handle load-balancing and phasing. But I don't find it massively far-fetched to imagine that integrating an extra layer to serve consoles might just introduce some tricky situations.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that the console layer is fairly inflexible ("our way or the highway"). Unless you have an intimate understanding of ESO's particular system design and unique complexities, it may be a bit cavalier to dismiss their reasons out of hand.

 

It's always more fun to imagine deep and dark conspiracies behind seemingly straight-forward problems. But perhaps the truth is no more sinister than someone at ZOS thinking: "It can't be that hard, can it ?" during their console integration planning phase, only to find out that it was much harder than estimated during implementation.

I can tell you in some detail the requirements to get an online game working via Xbox live - I know a guy at EA that manages the xbox live deployments, and have talked to him extensively about XLSP configs. Is it tricky - yes, but it doesn't take 6 months.

Here's a very basic diagram that shows the XLSP secure gateway setup - the XLSP server is REQUIRED for a game to work on Xbox live. So when you play CoD or any online Xbox game - you're going through Microsoft's XLSP servers.

 

XLSP secure gateway is a Microsoft server that Zenimax has to setup in their datacenter - it sits on the edge of the network and can proxy several thousand players. The more players connect the more XLSP gateways are required. Large games like CoD have MANY XLSP servers (can't get into specifics for obvious reasons).

These XLSP gateways register to Xbox live network - this allows Xbox Live to "list" a game as available and playable via Xbox live.

So when an end user logs into Xbox live - their credentials are checked to see if they have access to a product, once that check is pased - xbox live network talks to the XLSP gateway to obtain a server list and allow the Xbox console to connect directly.

So only the initial connection is done through Xbox Live.

After that the client's Xbox console talks directly to the XLSP server in Zenimax' datacenter, your console is not going through MS Xbox live network anymore.

 

Again - 6 months .... just no.

 

Again keep in mind the above only pertains to Xbox live - PS4 and PC/Mac do not have such requirements.

 

 

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

5/08/14 5:30:10 PM#52
Originally posted by StrixMaxima
Originally posted by gervaise1

 

As there is no basis comments about any company's financial situation (unless of course you work there or you have insider info about it): they are simply opinions. Stating that they have no basis is that kind of empty power commentary. But, just repeating the obvious, this is how I think it pans out. YMMV.

 

I agree. Which is why I considered your comment about this being evidence of Zenimax's firm financial foundation as being as having no foundation at all - unless you have inside information of course :)

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

5/08/14 5:43:17 PM#53
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

 

 

I have no idea how ZOS's "megaserver" is integrated with the internet or how they handle load-balancing and phasing. But I don't find it massively far-fetched to imagine that integrating an extra layer to serve consoles might just introduce some tricky situations.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that the console layer is fairly inflexible ("our way or the highway"). Unless you have an intimate understanding of ESO's particular system design and unique complexities, it may be a bit cavalier to dismiss their reasons out of hand.

 

It's always more fun to imagine deep and dark conspiracies behind seemingly straight-forward problems. But perhaps the truth is no more sinister than someone at ZOS thinking: "It can't be that hard, can it ?" during their console integration planning phase, only to find out that it was much harder than estimated during implementation.

"Someone at Zenimax thinking it can't be that hard can it!" - maybe. Scary thought but maybe. Even if the requirement is totally inflexible however it was totally inflexible last year ... and the year before .... and should have been tested months ago. As I say I agree with  DMKano 6 months just seems to long.

 

  Sector13

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 659

5/08/14 5:43:49 PM#54
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by askdaboss
Originally posted by Scot

While I think what you are saying is quite possible it does seem very fortuitous that guy takes a picture of every screen he visits on the web. As he said it was only up for 10 minutes, so presumably every time TESO does an update he immediately goes to the site and takes a screenshot?

Yeah yeah... surely it's the competitor who did that. Right. Let's all believe that.

Mind you, it would be the best defence to claim they've been hacked. They can even blame Anonymous, the perfect scapegoat (not that I think they are "unhack-able", but would anyone care about doing that really???)

I am not suggesting a competitor, I am accepting it could be true. But I am putting a question mark over it, who on earth takes a picture of a site every time it updates?

The other thing that got me thinking is this: are Zenimax going to now pretend for 6 months that TESO was never going to come out when they originally said? If they have made the decision to delay what possible benefit to them would withdrawing the statement be?

Well, time will tell.

I think there is either a website or a program that can take screenshots of sites based on time varients in the past cause I have seen this done before unfortunately I am not sure of the details of this. 

  reeereee

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 762

5/08/14 6:35:52 PM#55
Originally posted by SalmonMan

I'M SHOCKED! said no one ever.

Good to see they are going to take the extra time to polish the game for consoles, huh? Shame they didn't do the same for the PC port.

Whoops, I mean PC version.

Actually I'm shocked... why go full on cash grab just to pull back less than two months before your biggest payout?  Doesn't add up.

  User Deleted
5/08/14 7:34:00 PM#56
too many bugs; the network is not the issue; console games should be released 99% bug-free; not surprised, not every console gamer plays with a keyboard and don't want to bother with the infamous /reloadui, et al
  Voqar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 484

5/08/14 7:42:43 PM#57

It's hard to care when consoles are inferior for PC games, MMORPGs are PC games, and anybody serious about MMORPGs should be playing on a PC.

 

Have a nice day!

 

It would seem like they have plenty to keep them busy just dealing with issues in the PC version, and since console gamess tend to need to be more solid at release, a lot of the delay is probably about solidifying what they have before locking it down for consoles.

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  faefrost

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 199

5/08/14 8:33:57 PM#58
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

 

 

I have no idea how ZOS's "megaserver" is integrated with the internet or how they handle load-balancing and phasing. But I don't find it massively far-fetched to imagine that integrating an extra layer to serve consoles might just introduce some tricky situations.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that the console layer is fairly inflexible ("our way or the highway"). Unless you have an intimate understanding of ESO's particular system design and unique complexities, it may be a bit cavalier to dismiss their reasons out of hand.

 

It's always more fun to imagine deep and dark conspiracies behind seemingly straight-forward problems. But perhaps the truth is no more sinister than someone at ZOS thinking: "It can't be that hard, can it ?" during their console integration planning phase, only to find out that it was much harder than estimated during implementation.

"Someone at Zenimax thinking it can't be that hard can it!" - maybe. Scary thought but maybe. Even if the requirement is totally inflexible however it was totally inflexible last year ... and the year before .... and should have been tested months ago. As I say I agree with  DMKano 6 months just seems to long.

 

I think that one sentence pretty much sums up the entire Design Philosophy for ESO. 

  greysonfitzwater

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 11

5/08/14 8:44:43 PM#59
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6174

5/09/14 1:22:18 AM#60
this means they are in the background trying to decide if they will go F2P or try the B2P concept with the console's version.

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