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Zenimax Online Studios | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » [POLL] Still going to play ESO with sub?

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232 posts found
  Chriscaa

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/07
Posts: 10

9/18/13 4:44:48 PM#141
Originally posted by Keushpuppy
I will gladly pay a sub for a ggod game. Plus it keeps riff raff out that cant or wont pay.

lol "it keeps riff raff out" more like it keeps all the smart people away.  While all the suckers and blind fanboys play it.  Do you not understand that its 60 dollars, plus 15 dollars a month, plus it has a in-game store for cosmetic items.  They are definitely trying to milk idiots like you, it'll eventually go free to play with just a in-game shop, no 60 dollar entrance fee or 15 dollars a month and people like you will only be able to say "I played it first".

  Stone_Fountain

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/13
Posts: 72

"Death is certain, life is not."

9/18/13 5:03:05 PM#142
Originally posted by Chriscaa
Originally posted by Keushpuppy
I will gladly pay a sub for a ggod game. Plus it keeps riff raff out that cant or wont pay.

lol "it keeps riff raff out" more like it keeps all the smart people away.  While all the suckers and blind fanboys play it.  Do you not understand that its 60 dollars, plus 15 dollars a month, plus it has a in-game store for cosmetic items.  They are definitely trying to milk idiots like you, it'll eventually go free to play with just a in-game shop, no 60 dollar entrance fee or 15 dollars a month and people like you will only be able to say "I played it first".

I do not take party to calling anyone riff raff and I find this post to be insulting and lashing out. Clearly no better then the post it quoted. Having excitement over a game title is not a bad thing. Wanting to get into the Beta, pre-ordering and taking the day off on it's release date. This is what I've done for a few titles I was excited about. Those games were about $40 to $50. Now they are mostly $60 unless there is a CE version which thus far, ESO does not have. 

 

Most younger people are beholding to their parents for game purchases and many parents are not willing to allow their kid to pay a sub. A sub is not discriminating except to those who can't afford it. Some people that can afford a sub do not do them on principle alone. Some people just do not want to pay for their entertainment and if they have fun and don't pay, who is to say that's wrong? I like subs and will pay them. Traditionally, I've stuck with P2P games longer than F2P games but that doesn't make me an idiot nor am I after a 'I played it first' title or any title. I'm just looking to find 'that game' that holds my interest for the long haul and we all take each game and weigh it as it comes out for good or ill. 

First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

9/20/13 7:58:27 AM#143

A sub does not guarantee a good game.

A sub does not guarantee that  <> will not be playing the game.

A sub does not guarantee regular updates. Regular updates only started with CoH. In e.g. EQ1 updates were paid for.

 

 

What ESO needs is money. Money will pay for more content and provide Zenimax with profit obviously.

 

Zenimax have decided that having a sub is the best way ahead. And they are promising lots of content updates to try and get people to sub.

There is a huge flaw however. People do not need to sub all the time. People who leave (to play the next big thing) and come back some months later will get all the content that has come out since they left for free. People who sub can freeload!

Today, imo, a better approach would be:

-  B2P for the basic game. Not Free to Buy.

- charge for every expansion

- charge a membership to play, maybe $25 for 6 months.

This is how the early mmos worked. Including content in the sub was something that only started in 2004 (with CoH / L2)

 

The result:

 

The game will never be F2P - a small "membership cost" will always be needed. And if its small and the core game is good that is unlikely to be a problem. The first 6 months say can be included in the core price of the game.

 

As Zenimax have expansions all planned out and they will all be wonderful and worth buying then people will buy them. People who unsub and come back many months later won't be able to freeload. People who like the game a lot - and would "subscribe" will buy them all and won't feel that they are being put upon. They will feel that they are getting something for their money.

People who would be put off buying a sub based game / don't want to face the prospect of paying every month will be much more likely to buy it. Big difference between $15 a month from month 2 and another $25 (say) for months 7-12.

 

 

  Gardavsshade

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 654

9/20/13 9:08:20 AM#144

"Still going to play ESO with a Sub?"

*IF* I choose to play it, then Yes. I see no harm, or foul, or ill intent, or evil, from paying a MMO Publisher for a MMO. I am willing to pay the box price and a subscription for a good or better MMO like I have done many times in the past.

The real question in my mind is this:

*IS* TESO a good or better MMORPG? We don't know that yet honestly. It's still wrapped up in NDA legal stuff and hasn't been released.... and I no longer put much faith in Hype.... so ask me after release for a final answer.
  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3618

9/20/13 9:20:30 AM#145
Of all the MMOs coming out in the near future, this one screams b2p...... The thing I like about the ES series was I paid a one time fee and played as long as I like...Heck I'd still play Daggerfall if I had a PC that could run it......It still cracks me up how many people on this forum think a game is automatically better when they pay an extra 15 bucks a month for it.
  Gaeluian

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/09
Posts: 76

To be or not to be, I don't really care!

9/20/13 9:23:51 AM#146
Paying the $15 a month will keep the 'riff raff' away. I find that FTP players are the worst.
  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

9/20/13 12:48:59 PM#147
Originally posted by Gaeluian
Paying the $15 a month will keep the 'riff raff' away. I find that FTP players are the worst.

People in sub based games have been complaining about how xxx should go to game yyy for years and years.

If you really think a monthly sub will keep out "riff-raff" (whatever you mean by that) then you should be campaigning for a $30,  $50 or even $100 a month sub. I suggest however that there is no evidence that ability to pay = "nice" player. 

As I said people have had this complaint long before F2P reared its head.

A small "fee" is all you need to make people think twice. Enough to be meaningful but not enough to put people off trying the game. I suggested $25 for 6 months but whatever.

And if it is simply to cover the running costs then Zenimax can charge for any/all extra content. And as they have said they have such a lot of stuff ....

Launching as a sub based game and then trying to turn the game into a F2P / cash shop monster. Yuck.

Two years ago subs were making a comeback remember because SWTOR and TSW had decided to have a sub - the same type of articles people are writing today. Well we know how SWTOR and TSW have ended up. Games like Battlefield 3 however - with no sub but a premium membership - has been doing very well indeed.

  Nevek

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/07
Posts: 25

9/20/13 10:52:04 PM#148

no

 

way too many good quality f2p games out there to enjoy...yes i do spend some money in those games...but i dont go subs anymore as you dont get anything more than what f2p games offer with no subs.

  Militant

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/10
Posts: 48

9/21/13 11:11:57 AM#149
I will not pay a sub for this..  Ask yourself, would you pay $60 AND $15 a month to play Skyrim?  I wouldn't.  For what?  Instead of so many NPCs just to have them be real players?  I love elder scrolls games and thought it would be cool to have it in mmo form... but on the flip side, I really don't see the ES combat mode working out in any sort of mass-pvp/raiding situation...  5 man dungeons fine, 1v1 or small 5v5 PVP, sure..  but anything larger than 5 I just don't see the ES mechanics working out well and I feel this will largely be a single player MMO much like GW2 is/was (played 3 characters to 80 without grouping and without much trouble, since dungeons blow in gw2)
  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

9/21/13 11:14:31 AM#150
Originally posted by Chriscaa
Originally posted by Keushpuppy
I will gladly pay a sub for a ggod game. Plus it keeps riff raff out that cant or wont pay.

lol "it keeps riff raff out" more like it keeps all the smart people away.  While all the suckers and blind fanboys play it.  Do you not understand that its 60 dollars, plus 15 dollars a month, plus it has a in-game store for cosmetic items.  They are definitely trying to milk idiots like you, it'll eventually go free to play with just a in-game shop, no 60 dollar entrance fee or 15 dollars a month and people like you will only be able to say "I played it first".

 

We are well aware of the pricing, that's why we still want to play...lol

There is no cash shop, do some research before posting, thanks

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

9/21/13 11:16:34 AM#151
Originally posted by Gaeluian
Paying the $15 a month will keep the 'riff raff' away. I find that FTP players are the worst.

 

As a 15 year MMO veteran, I completely agree

No MMO community is perfect, but the F2P games have the worst communities by far

  ramdy

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/05
Posts: 48

9/21/13 6:11:00 PM#152

IMHO, sub is what can make this game to get much better for those who may take it serious.

In the we all know F2P doesn't exists.

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 559

9/21/13 6:17:35 PM#153
since maybe wasn't an option I clicked yes/  Can't say if it's worth it yet or not no real info.  But I will say if it had a f2p option Id be less likely to play it personally.   I've found the games that actually have to work to keep $ coming in are a better all around products imho than some random pos that throws a digital gimmick up on its cash shop once in awhile and calls it a day.

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1154

9/21/13 6:22:32 PM#154

If the game is not F2P, I don't buy it at launch anymore.  I can wait a month or two for the reviews, player feedback and a possible price reduction on the box. 

 

  ray12k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 475

9/22/13 8:29:55 AM#155
Originally posted by gervaise1

A sub does not guarantee a good game.

A sub does not guarantee that  <> will not be playing the game.

A sub does not guarantee regular updates. Regular updates only started with CoH. In e.g. EQ1 updates were paid for.

 

 

What ESO needs is money. Money will pay for more content and provide Zenimax with profit obviously.

 

Zenimax have decided that having a sub is the best way ahead. And they are promising lots of content updates to try and get people to sub.

There is a huge flaw however. People do not need to sub all the time. People who leave (to play the next big thing) and come back some months later will get all the content that has come out since they left for free. People who sub can freeload!

Today, imo, a better approach would be:

-  B2P for the basic game. Not Free to Buy.

- charge for every expansion

- charge a membership to play, maybe $25 for 6 months.

This is how the early mmos worked. Including content in the sub was something that only started in 2004 (with CoH / L2)

 

The result:

 

The game will never be F2P - a small "membership cost" will always be needed. And if its small and the core game is good that is unlikely to be a problem. The first 6 months say can be included in the core price of the game.

 

As Zenimax have expansions all planned out and they will all be wonderful and worth buying then people will buy them. People who unsub and come back many months later won't be able to freeload. People who like the game a lot - and would "subscribe" will buy them all and won't feel that they are being put upon. They will feel that they are getting something for their money.

People who would be put off buying a sub based game / don't want to face the prospect of paying every month will be much more likely to buy it. Big difference between $15 a month from month 2 and another $25 (say) for months 7-12.

 

 

CONtent from a sub had been going on since 1999... to date AC still releases monthly content. I think p2p makes a lot more sense for a company planning on releasing a game that they expect to go the long haul.

 

Most FTP games are only looking for the quick buck before all interest in the game is gone. 

  User Deleted
9/22/13 9:05:34 AM#156
Originally posted by Theocritus
Of all the MMOs coming out in the near future, this one screams b2p...... The thing I like about the ES series was I paid a one time fee and played as long as I like...Heck I'd still play Daggerfall if I had a PC that could run it......It still cracks me up how many people on this forum think a game is automatically better when they pay an extra 15 bucks a month for it.

Lol... my son does, play daggerfall that is. Now free and you can download the DOS box that goes with it to play on a modern PC. He has played all the way through Arena onwards. Downloaded a truckfull of mods for Morrowind and played that again... looks awesome for an old game. Now he is on a heavily modded Skyrim, and it looks stunning.

Roll on ESO release; I have given up on EQnext. Disney characters and a cartoon world that's not worth exploring does nothing for me. More guild wars 2 than guild wars 2 by some of the info coming out. If the occulus rift was out, I'd be living in Tamriel.

  Seeker728

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/04
Posts: 179

10/23/13 1:31:20 PM#157

To chime in here;

The reasons some have for feeling a F2P/B2P model is superior I've seen posted range from understandable (in the sense I can see their pov's merit) to the idotic and special snowflake mentality.   In general what I've seen having tried out games with a F2P/B2P model is that its overrun with the village idiot.  While P2P does not completely bar that type of player from entry, it does cut down on their numbers.  The other issue I frequently had with cash shops is how they're structured, though I have encountered a couple that were quite good and tolerable.  

 

The simple fact however remains that a F2P/B2P model still requires a steady flow of cash from players to company in order to keep it profitable, that's the bottom line why these games are made, to make money.   P2P generally has better customer support, faster ticket response times, offers numerous convenience services, and doesn't have maddening gates like inventory space or barred (but necessary) skills/abilities/whatever.  F2P also frequently has to be very conscientious about resources because running a business still costs money, so they have to do things like maintain small staffs, limited hardware, etc.  Granted P2P manages these things too, but they tend to have more stable finances unless of course, the game sucks and they bleed subs.  Ironically, moving from P2P to F2P is touted as a way to save a game, but all I've seen from such moves is server mergers, longstanding bugs, stale content, and worse game performance as the owning company cuts operating costs to the bone. 

 

Finally, everything in life costs money.  Everything.  Nobody is so special that this rule doesn't apply to them, and its not evil or selfish to want to make a profit on the fruits of one's labor, this mentality of hating corps for making a profit for providing entertainment is retardedly misguided.  Its one thing to get pissed because a corp is unethically exploiting necessities and has politicians in their pocket so they can routinely molest your finances and you have no choice about it; its entirely different when they got a product that's 100% optional and want to make big bucks in the process.  

Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.

  UWNVME

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 175

10/26/13 3:03:23 PM#158
Only thing that sucks for me about subscriptions, it's harder for me to get my IRL friends to play because they think $15 a month will break the bank for them. :(
  Brabbit1987

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 717

10/27/13 4:41:33 AM#159
Originally posted by thark
 
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by Fion

To be frank, Guild Wars 2 is so good as a B2P game that any future MMOG will have to be absolute Dynamite  for me to even consider paying to play it. I spent years in WoW paying a sub to sit around in  cities waiting on a queue. I'll never do anything like that again and I'll probably never play another P2P MMOG again.

It isn't about the money, it's about the choice. GW2 gives me a AAA game that I can 'choose' to spend money on if I want cosmetic goodies. A P2P game that isn't as good (IMHO few games ever have been as good as GW2) that requires me to pay them to even access? No, never again unless that game is astoundingly good.

So I voted no. From what I have seen the game doesn't look that good but I'd have tried it if it were B2P or F2P. But I'm not paying $60 to demo a mediocre MMOG.

Look dude, from what I can tell you still have to PAY for GW2 , so you payed 60 $ for GW2 and played it..Only diffrence you will not be subscribing to it :)

It's the same  with ESO you  pay 40-50 $,  then consider if you wan't a subscription or not , there is ALWAYS a month included in the base game purchase.

So..If you ONLY play these games for a month there really is NO diffrence in price at all.

 

If you "ONLY"? Sorry to say, that is a huge difference and you can't just apply a rule to change it. What if you want to play MORE then 1 month? Is it the same price then?

The difference is, one game you can play forever with out a time limit if you so choose for the price of $60. The other you have a limit of 1 month, and can never play the game again unless you pay the sub. I don't see how you call that NO difference. o.o

Even if you do decide to really only play the game for 1 month there STILL is a difference. That difference is, I can pick up one of these games at any time and play it even after that month, and the other I can't. The difference is capability. The difference is as clear as day. The difference is not very hard to miss. 

So how did you?

 you can get back in a BTP original game anytime you like, but if you are serious about the game it will cost you almost as much as any subscription planned game.

Besides, todays games are not the beasts they use to be, not many are playing these games for a couple of years, for most it's a month or a couple of months at best.

Sure in my subscription game i have to fork up another 15$ to get back in, but I will ONLY do that if i'm really serious of getting back in the game ...

Both of these payment models wan't payment for their games, they will take it out in one way or another, the BTP could as easyly be the more expensive one if you look at it, It only feels more cheap since it doesn't have a subscription and the hassle that comes with it, like access to a credit card.

It's about preferences really ,nothing wrong with either model but the illusion that a BTP game is almost free or something is just ..well wrong

 

See, that is where I don't understand you at all.

"but if you are serious about the game it will cost you almost as much as any subscription planned game."

No .... not at all. Not sure how you came to this conclusion. I have played many F2P games seriously, and played entirely free. This is no different with B2P games. Heck, with B2P, it should even be less likely for this to occur because they do not have to sell nearly as much in their item shops. Most of the time B2P only sells cosmetic items. This means, unless you are stupid and can't help but buy every stupid thing you see, you will not have to pay a dime after buying the initial copy of the game. 

I think the largest issue, is many people who don't play F2P games or are against them, have a very warped stand point on them that clouds their judgement on what a good game really is. So many people get caught up in the F2P, B2P, and P2P bull crap, that they don't realize the payment models have very little to do with wether or not a game is good or bad. If a game is bad, it will be bad, regardless of the payment model.

So many people play a bad F2P game, and then judge all F2P games in the same manner. People judge B2P almost if not entirely by using GW2 as an example. I got news for people .. it doesn't have to be done "that" way. Just because a certain company did it this way, or that way, doesn't mean it needs to be.

I don't understand why, MMOs can't simply use a B2P model with no cash shop, and sell DLC / Expansions every so often to keep the money coming in. They already use this method to begin with for Elder Scrolls ... so why not Elder Scrolls Online?  Heck, they probably would make more. Why? Well, the sub turns off a lot of people. No sub? Oh look! More players, more money, more opportunity.

Another issue is the P2P players. They are delusional in almost nearly ever aspect. Every excuse they give for why paying $15 a month is better, has no proof. Matter of fact, common excuses is that it keeps unwanted players out. Unwanted players? Like who exactly? Bots? Sure, I will give you that, but there are ways to prevent it even with out $15 a month. So really no excuse. Trolls? In what world do you live in? Trolls have money too rofl. $15 a month does not prevent trolls. 

Another excuse is better service. However, this makes little sense. A company's customer service either sucks, or is good, I don't think it has anything to do with the payment model for the game. Really there is no reason for customer service to decline at all. Don't blame it on the payment model, blame it on the company.

A better product? Really? How so? This also doesn't make any sense. Heck a B2P game and a P2P game ... really shouldn't have any difference at all in this aspect. F2P .. maybe, but it certainly doesn't have to be this way.

So why do you judge a game based on payment models instead of basing it on if the game is actually good or not? Cause I hate to break this to you. . a P2P game can be bad too. P2P doesn't magically make games any better. As I said .. it's delusional. 

How about the excuse you get what you pay for. Well let's put it this way. At some point, this no longer is true. Once it goes over a certain amount it becomes what is known as a rip off. People get ripped off all the time with out even knowing it. Let's say you buy a $5 bush, and a friend buys a $1 brush. You friends brush break in 2 days. You got what you payed for would apply. Now switch this around, your friend buys a $30 brush. 5 years down the road and you both still have the same brushes. You can suspect you friend got ripped off. Both brushes are of the same quality, but you friend payed more.

So, point is, paying more doesn't always mean better.

 

Well that is my rant for the day XD.

  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

10/27/13 4:56:52 AM#160
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by thark
Originally posted by Fion

To be frank, Guild Wars 2 is so good as a B2P game that any future MMOG will have to be absolute Dynamite  for me to even consider paying to play it. I spent years in WoW paying a sub to sit around in  cities waiting on a queue. I'll never do anything like that again and I'll probably never play another P2P MMOG again.

It isn't about the money, it's about the choice. GW2 gives me a AAA game that I can 'choose' to spend money on if I want cosmetic goodies. A P2P game that isn't as good (IMHO few games ever have been as good as GW2) that requires me to pay them to even access? No, never again unless that game is astoundingly good.

So I voted no. From what I have seen the game doesn't look that good but I'd have tried it if it were B2P or F2P. But I'm not paying $60 to demo a mediocre MMOG.

Look dude, from what I can tell you still have to PAY for GW2 , so you payed 60 $ for GW2 and played it..Only diffrence you will not be subscribing to it :)

It's the same  with ESO you  pay 40-50 $,  then consider if you wan't a subscription or not , there is ALWAYS a month included in the base game purchase.

So..If you ONLY play these games for a month there really is NO diffrence in price at all.

 

If you "ONLY"? Sorry to say, that is a huge difference and you can't just apply a rule to change it. What if you want to play MORE then 1 month? Is it the same price then?

The difference is, one game you can play forever with out a time limit if you so choose for the price of $60. The other you have a limit of 1 month, and can never play the game again unless you pay the sub. I don't see how you call that NO difference. o.o

Even if you do decide to really only play the game for 1 month there STILL is a difference. That difference is, I can pick up one of these games at any time and play it even after that month, and the other I can't. The difference is capability. The difference is as clear as day. The difference is not very hard to miss. 

So how did you?

If you want to play for more than one month, get out and find a job or ask your parents to buy you another month. Living of social support might be enought for GW2 but not for every mmorpg. So stick with your gw2 and leave P2P mmorpgs alone, just ignore them.

P.S.: GW2 sucks :P

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