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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Hoping for the best with ESO but feeling a bit concerned

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49 posts found
  immodium

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1271

7/29/13 6:42:47 AM#21
Originally posted by Foomerang

I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

I disagree. Skyrim, the most dumbed down ES game to be released did really well. If this game is getting dumbed down to that extenct it's sure to be a huge hit, on both console and PC.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4780

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

7/29/13 10:50:17 AM#22


Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang
I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days.

the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game.

whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.



You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2774

7/29/13 11:02:26 AM#23

The best approach is to look at the MMO and forget about it's IP.

Difficult, I know, but if the game play appeals to you without the IP propping it up, then you'll most likely love the game.

 

The IP won't hold you if the gameplay sucks.

  Mr_Mechanical

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/13
Posts: 88

7/29/13 11:10:43 AM#24
Originally posted by Foomerang

I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

Couldn't agree more. 

This is actually going to be the first MMORPG I "follow" and "look forward to" with absolutely no plans to Pre-Order.  

I simply do not trust that TESO will be good enough to buy.    As you said, If it's anything less than Skyrim online, I will pass.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 12:06:52 PM#25
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang
I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

 

this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days.

the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game.

whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.



You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.

 

I have to ask this. What makes ESO any more a theme park than Skyrim? I notice a lot of people throwing this around for ESO, however, I can't seem to find exactly why it's being thrown around. If ESO is a themepark, then so is Skyrim. The only thing I, myself, can be sure of is that you can no longer kill any NPC you want, nor can you roll down watermelons down hills and such. These little changes hardly changes anything though to switch the entire games core.

As for your last statement, the scrutinizing gamers do so even with out reason, a lot of times. Matter of fact, most of the time I question them and they can never come up with any good reasons for why they are complaining, or they come up with a reason that no one else seems to really care about. Worse, they complain about things you would expect to be in such a game. Also a blissful gamer can appreciate the "good ones" just as much as anyone else, there is no "truly". I really don't even see how you can make such a statement. 

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4780

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

7/29/13 12:10:48 PM#26


Originally posted by Brabbit1987

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.
  this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days. the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game. whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.
You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.  
I have to ask this. What makes ESO any more a theme park than Skyrim? I notice a lot of people throwing this around for ESO, however, I can't seem to find exactly why it's being thrown around. If ESO is a themepark, then so is Skyrim. The only thing I, myself, can be sure of is that you can no longer kill any NPC you want, nor can you roll down watermelons down hills and such. These little changes hardly changes anything though to switch the entire games core.

As for your last statement, the scrutinizing gamers do so even with out reason, a lot of times. Matter of fact, most of the time I question them and they can never come up with any good reasons for why they are complaining, or they come up with a reason that no one else seems to really care about. Worse, they complain about things you would expect to be in such a game. Also a blissful gamer can appreciate the "good ones" just as much as anyone else, there is no "truly". I really don't even see how you can make such a statement. 


In ES games, I could be whatever class I wanted with the same character, wear whatever I wanted into battle, have a home, place my belongings there. To me those things are not found in typical themeparks.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 12:24:13 PM#27
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Brabbit1987

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.
  this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days. the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game. whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.
You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.  
I have to ask this. What makes ESO any more a theme park than Skyrim? I notice a lot of people throwing this around for ESO, however, I can't seem to find exactly why it's being thrown around. If ESO is a themepark, then so is Skyrim. The only thing I, myself, can be sure of is that you can no longer kill any NPC you want, nor can you roll down watermelons down hills and such. These little changes hardly changes anything though to switch the entire games core.

 

As for your last statement, the scrutinizing gamers do so even with out reason, a lot of times. Matter of fact, most of the time I question them and they can never come up with any good reasons for why they are complaining, or they come up with a reason that no one else seems to really care about. Worse, they complain about things you would expect to be in such a game. Also a blissful gamer can appreciate the "good ones" just as much as anyone else, there is no "truly". I really don't even see how you can make such a statement. 


 

In ES games, I could be whatever class I wanted with the same character, wear whatever I wanted into battle, have a home, place my belongings there. To me those things are not found in typical themeparks.

All that is in this game besides the houses, "currently." Housing may come at a later time.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4780

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

7/29/13 12:27:55 PM#28


Originally posted by Brabbit1987
All that is in this game besides the houses, "currently." Housing may come at a later time.

Thats cool. So I can make a plate wearing mage with stealth and backstab? I may have to check it out hehe.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 12:31:35 PM#29
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Brabbit1987
All that is in this game besides the houses, "currently." Housing may come at a later time.

 

Thats cool. So I can make a plate wearing mage with stealth and backstab? I may have to check it out hehe.

lol yep, it's one of the main reasons I am looking forward to this game. Not many games give you free reign over your character.

Now I do  have to clarify, you choose a class in the beginning of ESO, but it's simply just a base to build off of. Think of Oblivion, since that was pretty much the same way.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17019

7/29/13 12:33:17 PM#30
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Brabbit1987
All that is in this game besides the houses, "currently." Housing may come at a later time.

 

Thats cool. So I can make a plate wearing mage with stealth and backstab? I may have to check it out hehe.

lol yep, it's one of the main reasons I am looking forward to this game. Not many games give you free reign over your character.

Now I do  have to clarify, you choose a class in the beginning of ESO, but it's simply just a base to build off of. Think of Oblivion, since that was pretty much the same way.

To be clear you could pick a class in Morrowind or Oblvioin OR not take a class and "make your own".

However "yes" in ESO one can have a plate wearing mage with some sort of thievign skills. Not sure if backstab or backstab bonuses are in or not. I'm sure someone else out there knows.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 12:35:32 PM#31
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Brabbit1987
All that is in this game besides the houses, "currently." Housing may come at a later time.

 

Thats cool. So I can make a plate wearing mage with stealth and backstab? I may have to check it out hehe.

lol yep, it's one of the main reasons I am looking forward to this game. Not many games give you free reign over your character.

Now I do  have to clarify, you choose a class in the beginning of ESO, but it's simply just a base to build off of. Think of Oblivion, since that was pretty much the same way.

To be clear you could pick a class in Morrowind or Oblvioin OR not take a class and "make your own".

However "yes" in ESO one can have a plate wearing mage with some sort of thievign skills. Not sure if backstab or backstab bonuses are in or not. I'm sure someone else out there knows.

Oh ya, your right, forgot you could make your own in the beginning =^.^;=

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2661

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/29/13 12:48:12 PM#32
Originally posted by LateBrake1

1. PvP is limited to Cyrodil ONLY (i.e Guild Wars style). We wouldn't want you to have any kind of worries about getting PC killed while leveling now do we? This is a good thing for an MMO because it attempts to expand on the DAoC model of PvP (RvR or in ESO's Case AvA) GW2 and WAR both faled on that model, namely their PvP areas were extremely small.  Cyrodiil's area is massive and seamless, it is the same size as all other faction territories put together, so it should play and act as a new area to quest, explore and PvP.

2. Your not allowed to leave your designated faction area and explore the rest of the world until we say so. Doesn't seem like that would go over well with hardcore ES fans. This is needed for factional Realm versus Realm combat to instill community.

3. When  you do leave you pick 1 other faction territory then when there you ONLY see your own faction members. What is the point of this? It doesn't seem immersive at all.  You actually get to visit both other zones, there is a 50+ and 50++ gameplay.  This was a concession for all the naysayers like you who demand the ability to  play in other areas.  It was an idiotic move IMO because it will help cheapen the whole realm pride and community aspect.

Anyway it's quite a while til launch and I'm hoping the game will be the MMO brings back a challenge and immersion to the genre. This video conveys a similar view and he say's it's likely nobody from Zenimax will watch this video but who knows maybe someone will:

While I agree with the sentiments you displayed 100% it isn't for the reasons you list.  IMO those reasons will be the only saving grace for the MMO Elder Scrolls.  Why the game will fail is because it plays like WoW or any other Linear Themepark ride.  It will be fun to play through once but there will be no endgame to speak of.  This is why it will fail, nothing to do and no longevity.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2661

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/29/13 12:54:31 PM#33
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang
I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

 

this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days.

the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game.

whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.



You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.

 

I have to ask this. What makes ESO any more a theme park than Skyrim? I notice a lot of people throwing this around for ESO, however, I can't seem to find exactly why it's being thrown around. If ESO is a themepark, then so is Skyrim. The only thing I, myself, can be sure of is that you can no longer kill any NPC you want, nor can you roll down watermelons down hills and such. These little changes hardly changes anything though to switch the entire games core.

As for your last statement, the scrutinizing gamers do so even with out reason, a lot of times. Matter of fact, most of the time I question them and they can never come up with any good reasons for why they are complaining, or they come up with a reason that no one else seems to really care about. Worse, they complain about things you would expect to be in such a game. Also a blissful gamer can appreciate the "good ones" just as much as anyone else, there is no "truly". I really don't even see how you can make such a statement. 

Skyrim is an open world.  Skyrim is massive.  Skyrim is not linear.  Skyrim allows you to kill most anyone.  Skyrim lets you steal anything.  Skyrim lets you design and decorate housing.  Skyrim has plenty of non combat activities.  Plus you have to consider a lot of people claim Skyrim isn't a sandbox, which I think is false, by the basic definition it is a true sandbox.

 

In short There are a lot of things in Skyrim that will be impossible in TESO because of developer hurdles.  And that last paragraph is a perfect example of the types of things Skyrim will have but TESO will not.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 12:57:35 PM#34
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by LateBrake1

1. PvP is limited to Cyrodil ONLY (i.e Guild Wars style). We wouldn't want you to have any kind of worries about getting PC killed while leveling now do we? This is a good thing for an MMO because it attempts to expand on the DAoC model of PvP (RvR or in ESO's Case AvA) GW2 and WAR both faled on that model, namely their PvP areas were extremely small.  Cyrodiil's area is massive and seamless, it is the same size as all other faction territories put together, so it should play and act as a new area to quest, explore and PvP.

2. Your not allowed to leave your designated faction area and explore the rest of the world until we say so. Doesn't seem like that would go over well with hardcore ES fans. This is needed for factional Realm versus Realm combat to instill community.

3. When  you do leave you pick 1 other faction territory then when there you ONLY see your own faction members. What is the point of this? It doesn't seem immersive at all.  You actually get to visit both other zones, there is a 50+ and 50++ gameplay.  This was a concession for all the naysayers like you who demand the ability to  play in other areas.  It was an idiotic move IMO because it will help cheapen the whole realm pride and community aspect.

Anyway it's quite a while til launch and I'm hoping the game will be the MMO brings back a challenge and immersion to the genre. This video conveys a similar view and he say's it's likely nobody from Zenimax will watch this video but who knows maybe someone will:

While I agree with the sentiments you displayed 100% it isn't for the reasons you list.  IMO those reasons will be the only saving grace for the MMO Elder Scrolls.  Why the game will fail is because it plays like WoW or any other Linear Themepark ride.  It will be fun to play through once but there will be no endgame to speak of.  This is why it will fail, nothing to do and no longevity.

I had a feeling you would show up lol. I also disagree, as usual. In what way does it play like WoW? The funny thing is all the beta testers are saying the opposite, also keep in mind I am following the sources you, yourself, gave me.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 1:07:05 PM#35
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang
I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

 

this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days.

the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game.

whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.



You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.

 

I have to ask this. What makes ESO any more a theme park than Skyrim? I notice a lot of people throwing this around for ESO, however, I can't seem to find exactly why it's being thrown around. If ESO is a themepark, then so is Skyrim. The only thing I, myself, can be sure of is that you can no longer kill any NPC you want, nor can you roll down watermelons down hills and such. These little changes hardly changes anything though to switch the entire games core.

As for your last statement, the scrutinizing gamers do so even with out reason, a lot of times. Matter of fact, most of the time I question them and they can never come up with any good reasons for why they are complaining, or they come up with a reason that no one else seems to really care about. Worse, they complain about things you would expect to be in such a game. Also a blissful gamer can appreciate the "good ones" just as much as anyone else, there is no "truly". I really don't even see how you can make such a statement. 

Skyrim is an open world.  Skyrim is massive.  Skyrim is not linear.  Skyrim allows you to kill most anyone.  Skyrim lets you steal anything.  Skyrim lets you design and decorate housing.  Skyrim has plenty of non combat activities.  Plus you have to consider a lot of people claim Skyrim isn't a sandbox, which I think is false, by the basic definition it is a true sandbox.

 

In short There are a lot of things in Skyrim that will be impossible in TESO because of developer hurdles.  And that last paragraph is a perfect example of the types of things Skyrim will have but TESO will not.

Skyrim is an open world, and so is ESO. Sure there are a bit of limits due to the factions, but it kinda makes sense due to the war part of the game.  In the end you still get to go everywhere.

Skyrim is massive, and so is ESO. Actually, I would say ESO is more massive lol.

Skyrim is not linear? What makes ESO linear? Also, please use facts, not assumptions.

Skyrim lets you design houses? How do you know ESO will not? Sure it may not be ON release, but how do you know it will not eventually be added?

Skyrim has plenty of non combat activities? Again how do you know ESO doesn't? We already know crafting is in the game. You seem to forget though we really have no clue what else is in the game besides what we know from beta testers who only play specific parts of the game.

Everything you list, in my opinion, isn't good reasons because they are things you actually do not know for a fact, and also things that can be highly debatable.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2661

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/29/13 1:10:13 PM#36
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by LateBrake1

1. PvP is limited to Cyrodil ONLY (i.e Guild Wars style). We wouldn't want you to have any kind of worries about getting PC killed while leveling now do we? This is a good thing for an MMO because it attempts to expand on the DAoC model of PvP (RvR or in ESO's Case AvA) GW2 and WAR both faled on that model, namely their PvP areas were extremely small.  Cyrodiil's area is massive and seamless, it is the same size as all other faction territories put together, so it should play and act as a new area to quest, explore and PvP.

2. Your not allowed to leave your designated faction area and explore the rest of the world until we say so. Doesn't seem like that would go over well with hardcore ES fans. This is needed for factional Realm versus Realm combat to instill community.

3. When  you do leave you pick 1 other faction territory then when there you ONLY see your own faction members. What is the point of this? It doesn't seem immersive at all.  You actually get to visit both other zones, there is a 50+ and 50++ gameplay.  This was a concession for all the naysayers like you who demand the ability to  play in other areas.  It was an idiotic move IMO because it will help cheapen the whole realm pride and community aspect.

Anyway it's quite a while til launch and I'm hoping the game will be the MMO brings back a challenge and immersion to the genre. This video conveys a similar view and he say's it's likely nobody from Zenimax will watch this video but who knows maybe someone will:

While I agree with the sentiments you displayed 100% it isn't for the reasons you list.  IMO those reasons will be the only saving grace for the MMO Elder Scrolls.  Why the game will fail is because it plays like WoW or any other Linear Themepark ride.  It will be fun to play through once but there will be no endgame to speak of.  This is why it will fail, nothing to do and no longevity.

I had a feeling you would show up lol. I also disagree, as usual. In what way does it play like WoW? The funny thing is all the beta testers are saying the opposite, also keep in mind I am following the sources you, yourself, gave me.

It plays like WoW because the game world is a linear Themepark with no divergence to wander off the beaten path.  And if you do wonder off the beaten path you will not progress or level as fast (if at all).  It plays like WoW because it contains hundred's of go kill these many rats, or collect 6 Crab shells, or escort some injured chick through hostile territory to an INN at the next town.  In short the game is replete with WoW like Fed-Ex tasks (not true TES quests) and is linear from creation to cap.

 

As for testers enjoying it, of course many if not most will, because its new and shiny.  But I assure you that effect will wear off like it has and done with every MMO that features these same boring failed concepts.  You can go to "Beta Cake" Forums and see everyone enamored with the game but like I said it is for the newness, not because the game is fresh.  I would probably get a lot of excitement out of playing it too, but it doesn't escape the fact the game for the most part plays like WoW in an Elder Scrolls visage.  The one guy who did the Q&A on their Forums even stated the game plays like a traditional MMO and doesn't offer much exploration.  So again just because the game is fun during the new phrase of play doesn't mean it will be fun 2-3 months post release.  For the record, SWTOR, RIft, GW2, TSW LotRO, and EQ2 were all fun and new for the first month or two but they outgrew their new factor.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 1:15:03 PM#37
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by LateBrake1

1. PvP is limited to Cyrodil ONLY (i.e Guild Wars style). We wouldn't want you to have any kind of worries about getting PC killed while leveling now do we? This is a good thing for an MMO because it attempts to expand on the DAoC model of PvP (RvR or in ESO's Case AvA) GW2 and WAR both faled on that model, namely their PvP areas were extremely small.  Cyrodiil's area is massive and seamless, it is the same size as all other faction territories put together, so it should play and act as a new area to quest, explore and PvP.

2. Your not allowed to leave your designated faction area and explore the rest of the world until we say so. Doesn't seem like that would go over well with hardcore ES fans. This is needed for factional Realm versus Realm combat to instill community.

3. When  you do leave you pick 1 other faction territory then when there you ONLY see your own faction members. What is the point of this? It doesn't seem immersive at all.  You actually get to visit both other zones, there is a 50+ and 50++ gameplay.  This was a concession for all the naysayers like you who demand the ability to  play in other areas.  It was an idiotic move IMO because it will help cheapen the whole realm pride and community aspect.

Anyway it's quite a while til launch and I'm hoping the game will be the MMO brings back a challenge and immersion to the genre. This video conveys a similar view and he say's it's likely nobody from Zenimax will watch this video but who knows maybe someone will:

While I agree with the sentiments you displayed 100% it isn't for the reasons you list.  IMO those reasons will be the only saving grace for the MMO Elder Scrolls.  Why the game will fail is because it plays like WoW or any other Linear Themepark ride.  It will be fun to play through once but there will be no endgame to speak of.  This is why it will fail, nothing to do and no longevity.

I had a feeling you would show up lol. I also disagree, as usual. In what way does it play like WoW? The funny thing is all the beta testers are saying the opposite, also keep in mind I am following the sources you, yourself, gave me.

It plays like WoW because the game world is a linear Themepark with no divergence to wander off the beaten path.  And if you do wonder off the beaten path you will not progress or level as fast (if at all).  It plays like WoW because it contains hundred's of go kill these many rats, or collect 6 Crab shells, or escort some injured chick through hostile territory to an INN at the next town.  In short the game is replete with WoW like Fed-Ex tasks (not true TES quests) and is linear from creation to cap.

 

As for testers enjoying it, of course many if not most will, because its new and shiny.  But I assure you that effect will wear off like it has and done with every MMO that features these same boring failed concepts.  You can go to "Beta Cake" Forums and see everyone enamored with the game but like I said it is for the newness, not because the game is fresh.  I would probably get a lot of excitement out of playing it too, but it doesn't escape the fact the game for the most part plays like WoW in an Elder Scrolls visage.  The one guy who did the Q&A on their Forums even stated the game plays like a traditional MMO and doesn't offer much exploration.  So again just because the game is fun during the new phrase of play doesn't mean it will be fun 2-3 months post release.  For the record, SWTOR, RIft, GW2, TSW LotRO, and EQ2 were all fun and new for the first month or two but they outgrew their new factor.

So your opinion on the game is more important then anyone elses? What you say is fact over others saying otherwsie who are actually playing it?

Sorry if I can no longer take you serious, but you are spreading false information.

Let me just point this out, what you THINK, isn't fact. Again, show me proof and stop using assumptions. I really am tired of people who like to do this.

You also can't base 1 persons opinion as facts either. The 1 person with Q/A ... ya what about all the others? Sorry, but his opinion isn't the only one that counts.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2661

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/29/13 1:20:25 PM#38
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang
I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

 

this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days.

the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game.

whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.



You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.

 

I have to ask this. What makes ESO any more a theme park than Skyrim? I notice a lot of people throwing this around for ESO, however, I can't seem to find exactly why it's being thrown around. If ESO is a themepark, then so is Skyrim. The only thing I, myself, can be sure of is that you can no longer kill any NPC you want, nor can you roll down watermelons down hills and such. These little changes hardly changes anything though to switch the entire games core.

As for your last statement, the scrutinizing gamers do so even with out reason, a lot of times. Matter of fact, most of the time I question them and they can never come up with any good reasons for why they are complaining, or they come up with a reason that no one else seems to really care about. Worse, they complain about things you would expect to be in such a game. Also a blissful gamer can appreciate the "good ones" just as much as anyone else, there is no "truly". I really don't even see how you can make such a statement. 

Skyrim is an open world.  Skyrim is massive.  Skyrim is not linear.  Skyrim allows you to kill most anyone.  Skyrim lets you steal anything.  Skyrim lets you design and decorate housing.  Skyrim has plenty of non combat activities.  Plus you have to consider a lot of people claim Skyrim isn't a sandbox, which I think is false, by the basic definition it is a true sandbox.

 

In short There are a lot of things in Skyrim that will be impossible in TESO because of developer hurdles.  And that last paragraph is a perfect example of the types of things Skyrim will have but TESO will not.

Skyrim is an open world, and so is ESO. Sure there are a bit of limits due to the factions, but it kinda makes sense due to the war part of the game.  In the end you still get to go everywhere.

Skyrim is massive, and so is ESO. Actually, I would say ESO is more massive lol.

Skyrim is not linear? What makes ESO linear? Also, please use facts, not assumptions.

Skyrim lets you design houses? How do you know ESO will not? Sure it may not be ON release, but how do you know it will not eventually be added?

Skyrim has plenty of non combat activities? Again how do you know ESO doesn't? We already know crafting is in the game. You seem to forget though we really have no clue what else is in the game besides what we know from beta testers who only play specific parts of the game.

Everything you list, in my opinion, isn't good reasons because they are things you actually do not know for a fact, and also things that can be highly debatable.

Did you download the 45 min leaked travel on mount video?  A level 7 basically traversed the entire landmass of the Ebonheart Pact within 45 minutes.  It was actually more like 35-38 minutes because a good chunk of that leaked video was spent in Mournhold looking around.  I don't know which dictionary you get your definitions from but in MMO verbiage 45 minutes to cross a landmass is not considered massive.  Asheron's Call takes 4+ hours to cross.  Hell even WoW takes over 2 hours to cross.

 

Skyrim is as linear as the questing curve carries the game.  Just because you can wonder off the beaten path doesn't mean its non linear like Skyrim.  In Skyrim I can forgo any or all quests and discover what I want when I want, not true in TESO.  You must follow a path line of quest givers and quests hubs to maximize your leveling.  In Skyrim I can maximize my leveling anyway I want through a Varity of means.

 

Just because a studio says maybe in the future and not on release doesn't mean they are telling the truth.  If a game doesn't feature something at release chances are it never will or won't for a very long time.  I hear WoW is still waiting on Heroic Classes for every profession.  I hear Neverwinter is waiting on a Ranger Class.  I hear GW2 is still waiting on a valid use of it's "home Instance".  Never take what a Dev says as gospel young padwan, you'll get burned every time.

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 645

7/29/13 1:26:30 PM#39
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Foomerang
I hate to say it, but this game is gonna flop. Console and PC gamers both know what to expect from an elder scrolls game. We are still blown away by the epicness of Skyrim. People are going to expect an elder scrolls mmo to be nothing less than Skyrim online. There will be a lot of backlash when this game launches.

 

this game wont flop, no way no how, not in mmo standards anyways. people will complain as they always do with every game these days.

the fact that this will be on the consoles pretty much solidifies its success, especially if its just a B2P game.

whether or not you or me personally like the game is another story.



You may be right. I personally dont have much invested into the franchise. Who knows, maybe it has reached mass market status and the purists will be drowned out by the casuals. Its definitely a possibility. I do know, however, from my limited time with these games, that the mmo version is offering a different experience. Its the equivalent of making a GTA mmo and making it a linear themepark. The diehards would scream bloody murder, but the casuals could care less. Sometimes I wonder which is better, the blissful gamer who laps up everything and moves on or the scrutinizing gamer who is rarely satisfied but truly appreciates the good ones.

 

I have to ask this. What makes ESO any more a theme park than Skyrim? I notice a lot of people throwing this around for ESO, however, I can't seem to find exactly why it's being thrown around. If ESO is a themepark, then so is Skyrim. The only thing I, myself, can be sure of is that you can no longer kill any NPC you want, nor can you roll down watermelons down hills and such. These little changes hardly changes anything though to switch the entire games core.

As for your last statement, the scrutinizing gamers do so even with out reason, a lot of times. Matter of fact, most of the time I question them and they can never come up with any good reasons for why they are complaining, or they come up with a reason that no one else seems to really care about. Worse, they complain about things you would expect to be in such a game. Also a blissful gamer can appreciate the "good ones" just as much as anyone else, there is no "truly". I really don't even see how you can make such a statement. 

Skyrim is an open world.  Skyrim is massive.  Skyrim is not linear.  Skyrim allows you to kill most anyone.  Skyrim lets you steal anything.  Skyrim lets you design and decorate housing.  Skyrim has plenty of non combat activities.  Plus you have to consider a lot of people claim Skyrim isn't a sandbox, which I think is false, by the basic definition it is a true sandbox.

 

In short There are a lot of things in Skyrim that will be impossible in TESO because of developer hurdles.  And that last paragraph is a perfect example of the types of things Skyrim will have but TESO will not.

Skyrim is an open world, and so is ESO. Sure there are a bit of limits due to the factions, but it kinda makes sense due to the war part of the game.  In the end you still get to go everywhere.

Skyrim is massive, and so is ESO. Actually, I would say ESO is more massive lol.

Skyrim is not linear? What makes ESO linear? Also, please use facts, not assumptions.

Skyrim lets you design houses? How do you know ESO will not? Sure it may not be ON release, but how do you know it will not eventually be added?

Skyrim has plenty of non combat activities? Again how do you know ESO doesn't? We already know crafting is in the game. You seem to forget though we really have no clue what else is in the game besides what we know from beta testers who only play specific parts of the game.

Everything you list, in my opinion, isn't good reasons because they are things you actually do not know for a fact, and also things that can be highly debatable.

Did you download the 45 min leaked travel on mount video?  A level 7 basically traversed the entire landmass of the Ebonheart Pact within 45 minutes.  It was actually more like 35-38 minutes because a good chunk of that leaked video was spent in Mournhold looking around.  I don't know which dictionary you get your definitions from but in MMO verbiage 45 minutes to cross a landmass is not considered massive.  Asheron's Call takes 4+ hours to cross.  Hell even WoW takes over 2 hours to cross.

 

Skyrim is as linear as the questing curve carries the game.  Just because you can wonder off the beaten path doesn't mean its non linear like Skyrim.  In Skyrim I can forgo any or all quests and discover what I want when I want, not true in TESO.  You must follow a path line of quest givers and quests hubs to maximize your leveling.  In Skyrim I can maximize my leveling anyway I want through a Varity of means.

 

Just because a studio says maybe in the future and not on release doesn't mean they are telling the truth.  If a game doesn't feature something at release chances are it never will or won't for a very long time.  I hear WoW is still waiting on Heroic Classes for every profession.  I hear Neverwinter is waiting on a Ranger Class.  I hear GW2 is still waiting on a valid use of it's "home Instance".  Never take what a Dev says as gospel young padwan, you'll get burned every time.

 

Comparing WoW to ESO which is new, is dumb. Sorry but you are the only one who thinks ESO is "small". Everyone was impressed by that video.

Again, not taking you serious anymore, because no matter what you see or hear, you are going to slander the game with out proof.

I already got in trouble once for telling others to ignore a user, so I will not make the same mistake, but everyone I advise you, go look up the information yourself, and you will soon find this person is talking non sense and has this huge biased opinion on the game. Every little peice of information you always say something bad about it. Really, I have said it before, PROOF!!! ... where is it!? You keep spouting out crap, with no proof. 

-.- You give me a headach. >.>

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2661

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

7/29/13 1:27:16 PM#40
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by LateBrake1

1. PvP is limited to Cyrodil ONLY (i.e Guild Wars style). We wouldn't want you to have any kind of worries about getting PC killed while leveling now do we? This is a good thing for an MMO because it attempts to expand on the DAoC model of PvP (RvR or in ESO's Case AvA) GW2 and WAR both faled on that model, namely their PvP areas were extremely small.  Cyrodiil's area is massive and seamless, it is the same size as all other faction territories put together, so it should play and act as a new area to quest, explore and PvP.

2. Your not allowed to leave your designated faction area and explore the rest of the world until we say so. Doesn't seem like that would go over well with hardcore ES fans. This is needed for factional Realm versus Realm combat to instill community.

3. When  you do leave you pick 1 other faction territory then when there you ONLY see your own faction members. What is the point of this? It doesn't seem immersive at all.  You actually get to visit both other zones, there is a 50+ and 50++ gameplay.  This was a concession for all the naysayers like you who demand the ability to  play in other areas.  It was an idiotic move IMO because it will help cheapen the whole realm pride and community aspect.

Anyway it's quite a while til launch and I'm hoping the game will be the MMO brings back a challenge and immersion to the genre. This video conveys a similar view and he say's it's likely nobody from Zenimax will watch this video but who knows maybe someone will:

While I agree with the sentiments you displayed 100% it isn't for the reasons you list.  IMO those reasons will be the only saving grace for the MMO Elder Scrolls.  Why the game will fail is because it plays like WoW or any other Linear Themepark ride.  It will be fun to play through once but there will be no endgame to speak of.  This is why it will fail, nothing to do and no longevity.

I had a feeling you would show up lol. I also disagree, as usual. In what way does it play like WoW? The funny thing is all the beta testers are saying the opposite, also keep in mind I am following the sources you, yourself, gave me.

It plays like WoW because the game world is a linear Themepark with no divergence to wander off the beaten path.  And if you do wonder off the beaten path you will not progress or level as fast (if at all).  It plays like WoW because it contains hundred's of go kill these many rats, or collect 6 Crab shells, or escort some injured chick through hostile territory to an INN at the next town.  In short the game is replete with WoW like Fed-Ex tasks (not true TES quests) and is linear from creation to cap.

 

As for testers enjoying it, of course many if not most will, because its new and shiny.  But I assure you that effect will wear off like it has and done with every MMO that features these same boring failed concepts.  You can go to "Beta Cake" Forums and see everyone enamored with the game but like I said it is for the newness, not because the game is fresh.  I would probably get a lot of excitement out of playing it too, but it doesn't escape the fact the game for the most part plays like WoW in an Elder Scrolls visage.  The one guy who did the Q&A on their Forums even stated the game plays like a traditional MMO and doesn't offer much exploration.  So again just because the game is fun during the new phrase of play doesn't mean it will be fun 2-3 months post release.  For the record, SWTOR, RIft, GW2, TSW LotRO, and EQ2 were all fun and new for the first month or two but they outgrew their new factor.

So your opinion on the game is more important then anyone elses? What you say is fact over others saying otherwsie who are actually playing it?

Sorry if I can no longer take you serious, but you are spreading false information.

Let me just point this out, what you THINK, isn't fact. Again, show me proof and stop using assumptions. I really am tired of people who like to do this.

You also can't base 1 persons opinion as facts either. The 1 person with Q/A ... ya what about all the others? Sorry, but his opinion isn't the only one that counts.

Sorry I got a ban for posting a link to leaked video for trying to prove to you once but that's not gonna happen again.  Where is my word an opinion?  My word is fact the game is not Skyrim Online, it is not an open world, exploration centric game like Skyrim.  Those are all FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

Where is your proof that TESO is like Skyrim....I am talking about its leveling/progression system and how it pertains to exploring off the beaten path?  If you can prove to me that TESO allows the player to play entirely from creation to cap without having to follow a main story, or follow a linear path I'll STFU right now and bow down at the altar of Brabbit's epicness.  You won't because you can't!!!!  From now try refuting the ONE SINGLE ARGUMENT I AM TRYING TO MAKE.   Listen, I know that shit doesn't mean crap to you and you probably enjoy linear progression and that is fine.  Argue it's merits but do not disagree with me and say TESO is not a linear progression, non exploration centric world.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

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