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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Is All PVP Still Restricted To Cyrodiil? If It Is Im Not Buying This Game

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165 posts found
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

5/01/13 12:12:07 PM#61
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Nan
No doubt there will be bonuses and stuff from ava

But it will be like gw2, the bonuses will effect pvp only, because
1 pveers will whine
2 you can hop shards anyway

Likewise there won't be exclusive crafting stuff in ava either, there will be a pve route to the same resource.

And likewise pvpers won't be reliant on.pveers for resources like from dragon raids.

It's the way modern mmos work, every little group in their own little island.

It's the wow legacy.

Whats there ti whine about when everyone from your conflict has them, even if you didnt take part in the battle?

  Miblet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

5/01/13 12:18:04 PM#62
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by ShakyMo

Modern gamers don't want that, they come from a me generation they don't get the concept of everyone on the same side working towards the same goals, with pveers, pvpers and crafters all being cross reliant on each other.

Call me a hopeless optimist if you want...

You sir, are a hopeless optimist!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

5/01/13 12:25:28 PM#63
Originally posted by ShakyMo
There won't be a darkness falls. Entitled pve types will whine too much.

There can't be the equivelent of relics, or if there Is they are pointless as you can just teleport to a phase where your faction owns relics. Again this wouldn't happen due to while from pveers anyway.

Its an impossible thing to do with an mmo these days unless you completely avoid all the pre launch hype and just drop it on people. If daoc launched today, beta forums would be full of whining raiders going "let me get this right, to be at my best for raiding I'm reliant on pvpers to go out and grab these relics".

Modern gamers don't want that, they come from a me generation they don't get the concept of everyone on the same side working towards the same goals, with pveers, pvpers and crafters all being cross reliant on each other.

Still looking for the youtube video on this but found this here...

Quote:There are a large number of public dungeons within Cyrodiil as well, which will combine exciting PvE storylines with the challenge and danger of encountering hostile player opposition within. In addition, ZeniMax are working to develop a mega-dungeon, reminiscent of Darkness Falls in Dark Age of Camelot, where access to this dungeon will depend on your faction’s success in the realm war

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

5/01/13 12:40:24 PM#64
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

This is much like no smoking laws. When your freedom to smoke gets in the way of me not smoking. Sorry smoker put it out. Same with PvP. This model is designed to keep PvPers killing people who want to PvP. How is that unfair? The AvA map has all flavors of PvP, group, solo, raids, PvE (quests and dungeons) where PvP can happen at any time. If you really wana go kill low level players then your not a real PvPer and this is not the game for you.

That's a poor analogy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there be nothing but open PVP in all instances, but a PVE/PvP option would be nice for those that prefer that sort of gameplay

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

5/01/13 12:45:46 PM#65
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

What is truly pathetic is people that don't realize an MMO is not just about them and that what they do affects someone else's enjoyment.

In MMOs yeah, some people are ignorant enough with their cheats, hacks and griefing that they have to be restricted. Anyone who has ever played an open world PvP game where ganking is possible knows damn well that there are always some people camping low level quest hubs and ganking those 50 levels below them...always.

Some developers--Arenanet and Zenimax for example--know that this has always been the way so they decided to segregate PvP and PvE. If that alienates the anti social jerks who get their jollies out of griefing, so be it. They're willing to make do without their money.

There are assholes who play MMOs and even the most hardcore full loot ffa PvP MMOs sometimes have to step in and "restrict how other people decide to play." Want an example? Here you go: http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7353/Darkfalls-Disgusting-HOGGs.html

 

That's funny you brought this up. Those clowns tried to grief me as well my first day in. Instead of raging or quitting I just swapped to first person and ignored them. (You need to get in between the camera and their character to have them "lose focus" and stop an action).

 

Sadly I don't believe I made their highlight reel :(

Also, they were all IP/CC banned from Darkfall for griefing shortly after that video was posted. 

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

5/01/13 12:49:04 PM#66
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

This is much like no smoking laws. When your freedom to smoke gets in the way of me not smoking. Sorry smoker put it out. Same with PvP. This model is designed to keep PvPers killing people who want to PvP. How is that unfair? The AvA map has all flavors of PvP, group, solo, raids, PvE (quests and dungeons) where PvP can happen at any time. If you really wana go kill low level players then your not a real PvPer and this is not the game for you.

That's a poor analogy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there be nothing but open PVP in all instances, but a PVE/PvP option would be nice for those that prefer that sort of gameplay

Not really, fits how ZM is taking PvP to the players. Your desire for PvE and PvP servers gives way to the broken flag system. You wana PvP then turn on your PvP flag. But its way to easy to force people to flag and ZM has made it so PvP happens on one map. Being this is based off a game where people dont PvP at all and exploring and feeling like a hero of the story is whats its about. How can you be the hero of the story when that level 50 guys just killed me in 3 seconds? So this gives pure PvEers their space to play and PvPers a place to enjoy what they do without ever the risk of trashing lowbies.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/01/13 12:56:28 PM#67
Plus some simple flagging system is just a,way of saying "got pvp" on the game box without making any actual, you know pvp content.

That's the real reason for all the flag system loving.

More time free to make raids and other shit.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

5/01/13 12:58:03 PM#68
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Plus some simple flagging system is just a,way of saying "got pvp" on the game box without making any actual, you know pvp content.

That's the real reason for all the flag system loving.

More time free to make raids and other shit.

Ya... no shit here!!! lol

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

5/01/13 12:58:44 PM#69
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

This is much like no smoking laws. When your freedom to smoke gets in the way of me not smoking. Sorry smoker put it out. Same with PvP. This model is designed to keep PvPers killing people who want to PvP. How is that unfair? The AvA map has all flavors of PvP, group, solo, raids, PvE (quests and dungeons) where PvP can happen at any time. If you really wana go kill low level players then your not a real PvPer and this is not the game for you.

That's a poor analogy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there be nothing but open PVP in all instances, but a PVE/PvP option would be nice for those that prefer that sort of gameplay

Not really, fits how ZM is taking PvP to the players. Your desire for PvE and PvP servers gives way to the broken flag system. You wana PvP then turn on your PvP flag. But its way to easy to force people to flag and ZM has made it so PvP happens on one map. Being this is based off a game where people dont PvP at all and exploring and feeling like a hero of the story is whats its about. How can you be the hero of the story when that level 50 guys just killed me in 3 seconds? So this gives pure PvEers their space to play and PvPers a place to enjoy what they do without ever the risk of trashing lowbies.

I didn't say anything about a flag system, just an option for open PvP in their world (as opposed to RvR, not all PVE)

I'd suggested as much in a Mordred/PvP server thread a couple weeks back, and I assure you the entire flagging thing would be the last thing on anyone's mind when it comes to fun.

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

5/01/13 1:03:04 PM#70
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

This is much like no smoking laws. When your freedom to smoke gets in the way of me not smoking. Sorry smoker put it out. Same with PvP. This model is designed to keep PvPers killing people who want to PvP. How is that unfair? The AvA map has all flavors of PvP, group, solo, raids, PvE (quests and dungeons) where PvP can happen at any time. If you really wana go kill low level players then your not a real PvPer and this is not the game for you.

That's a poor analogy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there be nothing but open PVP in all instances, but a PVE/PvP option would be nice for those that prefer that sort of gameplay

Not really, fits how ZM is taking PvP to the players. Your desire for PvE and PvP servers gives way to the broken flag system. You wana PvP then turn on your PvP flag. But its way to easy to force people to flag and ZM has made it so PvP happens on one map. Being this is based off a game where people dont PvP at all and exploring and feeling like a hero of the story is whats its about. How can you be the hero of the story when that level 50 guys just killed me in 3 seconds? So this gives pure PvEers their space to play and PvPers a place to enjoy what they do without ever the risk of trashing lowbies.

I didn't say anything about a flag system, just an option for open PvP in their world (as opposed to RvR, not all PVE)

I'd suggested as much in a Mordred/PvP server thread a couple weeks back, and I assure you the entire flagging thing would be the last thing on anyone's mind when it comes to fun.

Not sure how you could make that work with the 3 faction maps and the 3 factions not playing together. Also a big part of the current system is all PvP takes place on the AvA map and that means you get more large scale battles. Having PvP everywhere would water down that model. Works well in games thats designed for but I hope they dont add anything like that here. There are some cool games coming out that have PvP servers. Wildstar and AA for two. If you like sandbox MMOs I would say AA fits more what you seem to be looking for. 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

5/01/13 1:04:45 PM#71
Originally posted by Grixxitt
 

That's funny you brought this up. Those clowns tried to grief me as well my first day in. Instead of raging or quitting I just swapped to first person and ignored them. (You need to get in between the camera and their character to have them "lose focus" and stop an action).

 

Sadly I don't believe I made their highlight reel :(

Also, they were all IP/CC banned from Darkfall for griefing shortly after that video was posted. 

 Yeah I actually gained some repect for Aventurine after the bann.

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

5/01/13 1:10:15 PM#72
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

This is much like no smoking laws. When your freedom to smoke gets in the way of me not smoking. Sorry smoker put it out. Same with PvP. This model is designed to keep PvPers killing people who want to PvP. How is that unfair? The AvA map has all flavors of PvP, group, solo, raids, PvE (quests and dungeons) where PvP can happen at any time. If you really wana go kill low level players then your not a real PvPer and this is not the game for you.

That's a poor analogy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that there be nothing but open PVP in all instances, but a PVE/PvP option would be nice for those that prefer that sort of gameplay

Not really, fits how ZM is taking PvP to the players. Your desire for PvE and PvP servers gives way to the broken flag system. You wana PvP then turn on your PvP flag. But its way to easy to force people to flag and ZM has made it so PvP happens on one map. Being this is based off a game where people dont PvP at all and exploring and feeling like a hero of the story is whats its about. How can you be the hero of the story when that level 50 guys just killed me in 3 seconds? So this gives pure PvEers their space to play and PvPers a place to enjoy what they do without ever the risk of trashing lowbies.

I didn't say anything about a flag system, just an option for open PvP in their world (as opposed to RvR, not all PVE)

I'd suggested as much in a Mordred/PvP server thread a couple weeks back, and I assure you the entire flagging thing would be the last thing on anyone's mind when it comes to fun.

Not sure how you could make that work with the 3 faction maps and the 3 factions not playing together. Also a big part of the current system is all PvP takes place on the AvA map and that means you get more large scale battles. Having PvP everywhere would water down that model. Works well in games thats designed for but I hope they dont add anything like that here. There are some cool games coming out that have PvP servers. Wildstar and AA for two. If you like sandbox MMOs I would say AA fits more what you seem to be looking for. 

Yeah.

 

I don't like/want that model. Hence the Mordred PvP reference (which worked great in a similar game and RvR model btw)

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

5/01/13 1:13:34 PM#73
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Grixxitt
 

That's funny you brought this up. Those clowns tried to grief me as well my first day in. Instead of raging or quitting I just swapped to first person and ignored them. (You need to get in between the camera and their character to have them "lose focus" and stop an action).

 

Sadly I don't believe I made their highlight reel :(

Also, they were all IP/CC banned from Darkfall for griefing shortly after that video was posted. 

 Yeah I actually gained some repect for Aventurine after the bann.

http://www.unholybanhammer.com/BH/

 

They also changed policy regarding keeping those bans private   =)

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Neherun

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/06/07
Posts: 204

5/02/13 1:45:28 AM#74
Originally posted by Mouls

 

There is no 'risk vs reward' neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP in TESO,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR.

No risk vs reward in Territorial control warfare, especially siege warfare? A second ago you just mentioned Shadowbane, you should know. The most meaningful moment you can have in an MMORPG is the moment when your city is under attack, and that same city you have spent too many months working on with your guild. You have defended it for the past year few times per month. You're confident, nothing new, been there done this. And you lost, you lost the fucking city you had dedicated so many hours upon, the same city you had woken up to defend at 4 a.m is now gone. Enemy banners now decorate its walls.

 

Shit, that isn't risk? Or reward for the attackers (sieging wasn't cheap)?

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

5/03/13 2:08:14 PM#75
Originally posted by Neherun
Originally posted by Mouls

 

There is no 'risk vs reward' neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP in TESO,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR.

No risk vs reward in Territorial control warfare, especially siege warfare? A second ago you just mentioned Shadowbane, you should know. The most meaningful moment you can have in an MMORPG is the moment when your city is under attack, and that same city you have spent too many months working on with your guild. You have defended it for the past year few times per month. You're confident, nothing new, been there done this. And you lost, you lost the fucking city you had dedicated so many hours upon, the same city you had woken up to defend at 4 a.m is now gone. Enemy banners now decorate its walls.

 

Shit, that isn't risk? Or reward for the attackers (sieging wasn't cheap)?

You must be an old fart (like me) if you think of risk and reward in a global social context. When a lot of people throw those termas around these days, they're usually speaking about risk and rewards that affect them specifically... loot, resources, gold is what they're talking about.

What you describe above also applied to DAoC even though it was structured just like this game with separate PvE areas for each side and large RvR areas with keeps to conquer and defend.

Flipping regular keep ownership was not trivial like it was in Warhammer Online, but it did happen usually on a daily basis. Conquering the Relic Keep (2 per side - one for magic boosts and one for melee) and taking the relic back to your home area on the other hand, were rare events and quite difficult to execute properly. We also got up at 4 AM sometimes to either prevent ours from being taken or taking theirs.

Group risk and group rewards was also what DAoC was all about.

But back to 2013... everything designed these days is essentially solo-centric and all about stroking individual egos. What these guys are attempting to do with ESO is that they're taking a risk that the 2013 crowd can be "re-educated" to care more about the faction they are part of.

But if you look at most (not all, but a huge majority) of the complaints in this forum, they are all about how they need to cater to me and mine my style and my rewards... the sense of self-entitlement with MMO players in 2013 is just amazing...

Any intelligent and reasonable objective look at the whole of ESO has to come to the conclusion that they are designing end-game around RvR. They are trying to build a community around that. But at the same time they are being realistic about 2013 and the current MMO player base... this is why they chose the separate PvE-only area design... just like GW2 did last year. There's lot of non-PvP stuff to get involved in here--that's neither accidental nor dumb. It's there to give the PvE content consumers several months of enjoyment...and by that time, they hope, the PvE crowd will realize that RvR is a lot of fun, give it a try, enjoy it, and become new RvR fans who stick around.

But if you're the type of player who already loves large scale tactical PvP you're who they're making this game for. No need to go anywhere other than Cyrodiil after level 10. So... why be greedy and say "There must be PvP everywhere or I'm going home in a snit?" That is just selfish, idiotic and bound to doom this game to a tiny niche corner of the MMO market--just like DF UW--where only those who like individual ganking AND large scale PvP will play. No new "converts" possible in that scenario.

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 545

5/03/13 2:13:44 PM#76
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Wow never had "meaningful open world pvp"

Yea WoW did have meaningful Open World PVP when PVP servers were balanced.  Before they removed the rule saying that you cannot have a greater than 59% to 41% faction inbalance on PVP servers, PVP was enjoyable because you didnt have 5000 horde to 100 alliance on 1 server.  

  PAL-18

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 724

5/03/13 2:16:21 PM#77
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

What is truly pathetic is people that don't realize an MMO is not just about them and that what they do affects someone else's enjoyment.

In MMOs yeah, some people are ignorant enough with their cheats, hacks and griefing that they have to be restricted. Anyone who has ever played an open world PvP game where ganking is possible knows damn well that there are always some people camping low level quest hubs and ganking those 50 levels below them...always.

Some developers--Arenanet and Zenimax for example--know that this has always been the way so they decided to segregate PvP and PvE. If that alienates the anti social jerks who get their jollies out of griefing, so be it. They're willing to make do without their money.

There are assholes who play MMOs and even the most hardcore full loot ffa PvP MMOs sometimes have to step in and "restrict how other people decide to play." Want an example? Here you go: http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7353/Darkfalls-Disgusting-HOGGs.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIFYc3_MgkI heres some non open world full loot hardcore material from them,you can decide who are the "bad guys"

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

5/03/13 2:17:41 PM#78
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Wow never had "meaningful open world pvp"

Yea WoW did have meaningful Open World PVP when PVP servers were balanced.  Before they removed the rule saying that you cannot have a greater than 59% to 41% faction inbalance on PVP servers, PVP was enjoyable because you didnt have 5000 horde to 100 alliance on 1 server.  

Meaningful means there was some meaning behind it. WoW PvP combat is fun but not meaningful. Have something to fight over that impacts your faction and gives you rewards only when you win or feel heartbroken when you fail. Now thats meaningful. 

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

5/03/13 2:25:39 PM#79
Originally posted by superconducting

Open world PVP sounds good on paper but in practice is a bad idea. There are a whole host of problems associated with it:

- PVP would be way too scattered and less focused. Small groups or individual players would be haphazardly fighting rather than having larger-scale battles between armies.

- People would not easily know where to go to join up with their groups.

- PVE content (which is most of the game) would not be safe to do. You could never feel safe questing.

- It would be a lore-breaker (at least initially before 50+) if factions are not restricted to the races the comprise them.

 

I remember when runescape decided to open up the whole world to PVP, instead of just limiting it to the wilderness. The amount of backlash they received was mind-numbing. PvP was ruined so much that they eventually they restored the wilderness to the way it was before.

Grade A 100% BS outside perhaps you, yourself and a few others require the developers to hold their hands so much you cant figure things out on your own.

Also, at no point did the OP say FFA PvP. Open world PvP does not mean FFA. FFA means FFA. Open world means you can CHOSE to PvP anywhere in the world.

As for faction restriction...more pure BS. TES lore states that this is around the fall of the SECOND EMPIRE. During the first empire slaves are taken from all the races so all the lands are mixed. The second empire freed the slaves from the first. The second empire has stood for over 400 years...so there are 400 YEARS worth of freedom for those races living in the lands they were formerly slaves in, more than enough generations have passed for them to have built a love for their lands.

P.S. Nobody cares about what Runescape did and looking at the genre, few players want those limitations going by their choices of games AND the choice of companies NOT making games like that.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

5/03/13 2:53:16 PM#80
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

What is truly pathetic is people that don't realize an MMO is not just about them and that what they do affects someone else's enjoyment.

In MMOs yeah, some people are ignorant enough with their cheats, hacks and griefing that they have to be restricted. Anyone who has ever played an open world PvP game where ganking is possible knows damn well that there are always some people camping low level quest hubs and ganking those 50 levels below them...always.

Some developers--Arenanet and Zenimax for example--know that this has always been the way so they decided to segregate PvP and PvE. If that alienates the anti social jerks who get their jollies out of griefing, so be it. They're willing to make do without their money.

There are assholes who play MMOs and even the most hardcore full loot ffa PvP MMOs sometimes have to step in and "restrict how other people decide to play." Want an example? Here you go: http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7353/Darkfalls-Disgusting-HOGGs.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIFYc3_MgkI heres some non open world full loot hardcore material from them,you can decide who are the "bad guys"

 

So a few years ago in another game the same guy was reporting a different type of asshat?

I don't know what that has to do with griefing deliberately to try to get a rise out of what he calls "gimps" (which btw, still reminds me of the 2 rednecks in Pulp Fiction who had a pet "gimp" in the basement of their shop) and posting it on youtube as some kind of "instructional video" on how to harrass others in DF UW.

All I see is one type of asshat reporting a different type... the dude is still what he is,

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