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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » TESO uses a modified version HeroEngine

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70 posts found
  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3797

RIP City of Heroes!

4/17/13 2:44:02 PM#21
Originally posted by ShakyMo
So basicly they prototype in hero engine because its quick to knock up a prototype in.

Then they make the real version in the proper engine (probably a very heavily modified gamebryo like skyrim)

That's pretty much how I work, bang up quick prototypes to demo / test ideas using c#. Make the real version in C++ (striping out stuff like dynamic polymorphism and substituting templates / functional techniques) using our in house compiler. Because my stuff needs to be blisteringly fast.

 Sounds more like a proof of concept and design testing placeholder while they make the real engine. 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/17/13 2:50:15 PM#22
That's what a prototype is. A proof on concept.
  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

4/17/13 2:52:08 PM#23
Originally posted by wowclones

First off, HeroEngine is a great engine, so this is not a flame post. I have been a long time user of HeroEngine, after watching the leaked video, I can tell you 100% that it is HeroEngine. They tried to deny using it for the final version here http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/26/the-elder-scrolls-online-using-heroengine-as-a-whiteboard/ . They never dropped it, it was just a PR move to avoid the connection with TOR and HeroEngine. From the way the terrain textures are laid on the ground to the way the  grass blades (billboards) blow in the wind, it is Heroengine.  Understand things like that differ  from engine to engine, for it to be exact means it's using the same core. Although the water shader has been modified. Everything else is Hero. Possibly that video was made during the "Whiteboard" stage of production, but what is in the video is Hero.

What a mess of wrong you have conjured together, there are so many ways to disprove your tin foil drama post its just funny.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3797

RIP City of Heroes!

4/17/13 2:56:24 PM#24
Originally posted by ShakyMo
That's what a prototype is. A proof on concept.

 Sorry if my all my years in software was confusing you.  Explaining it to the idiots.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4859

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

4/17/13 3:01:03 PM#25

According to Bioware - main reason SWTOR failed is HeroEngine.

It is a blight on the industry.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/17/13 3:05:37 PM#26
Main reason swtor sucks

Ea are involved

What was the last decent ea game? first dragon age I reckon.

What was the last great ea game, a contender for game of the year? Probably going back as far back as sim city 3000.
  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7768

Logic be damned!

4/17/13 3:14:48 PM#27

There are plenty of awful games that use modified Unreal engine too.

Just because TOR had a lot of problems with Hero engine doesn't mean all games that use Hero engine (or pieces of it) are destined to have the same problems.

Lesson in causality.

People like to point fingers and say "See! This is why, right here!"

Because simple explainations to complex problems are easy for us to digest.

Easy for us to rally behind and pontificate against.

 

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  wowclones

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 133

 
OP  4/17/13 3:16:03 PM#28
Originally posted by Lobotomist

According to Bioware - main reason SWTOR failed is HeroEngine.

It is a blight on the industry.

That is not what he mean't. What he was saying was building an engine, in general, and trying to make a game at the same time killed them. That was their fault, remeber this article where Bioware had to beg for the unfinished engine, and was told it wasnt a good idea? Remeber this article was posted before TOR came out, http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

  wowclones

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 133

 
OP  4/17/13 3:24:56 PM#29
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by wowclones

First off, HeroEngine is a great engine, so this is not a flame post. I have been a long time user of HeroEngine, after watching the leaked video, I can tell you 100% that it is HeroEngine. They tried to deny using it for the final version here http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/26/the-elder-scrolls-online-using-heroengine-as-a-whiteboard/ . They never dropped it, it was just a PR move to avoid the connection with TOR and HeroEngine. From the way the terrain textures are laid on the ground to the way the  grass blades (billboards) blow in the wind, it is Heroengine.  Understand things like that differ  from engine to engine, for it to be exact means it's using the same core. Although the water shader has been modified. Everything else is Hero. Possibly that video was made during the "Whiteboard" stage of production, but what is in the video is Hero.

What a mess of wrong you have conjured together, there are so many ways to disprove your tin foil drama post its just funny.

it only turns to tinfoil when people like you come in here posting, I have said nothing bad about Heroengine or TESO have I? Any drama you are seeing is in your brain becasue you are a person who only knows drama. 

  heroenginesidekick

Novice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 5

4/17/13 3:26:18 PM#30
.
  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

4/17/13 3:29:39 PM#31
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by wowclones

First off, HeroEngine is a great engine, so this is not a flame post. I have been a long time user of HeroEngine, after watching the leaked video, I can tell you 100% that it is HeroEngine. They tried to deny using it for the final version here http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/26/the-elder-scrolls-online-using-heroengine-as-a-whiteboard/ . They never dropped it, it was just a PR move to avoid the connection with TOR and HeroEngine. From the way the terrain textures are laid on the ground to the way the  grass blades (billboards) blow in the wind, it is Heroengine.  Understand things like that differ  from engine to engine, for it to be exact means it's using the same core. Although the water shader has been modified. Everything else is Hero. Possibly that video was made during the "Whiteboard" stage of production, but what is in the video is Hero.

What a mess of wrong you have conjured together, there are so many ways to disprove your tin foil drama post its just funny.

Yet you fail to list just 1.

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  muffins89

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1255

4/17/13 3:36:11 PM#32
Originally posted by wowclones
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by wowclones

First off, HeroEngine is a great engine, so this is not a flame post. I have been a long time user of HeroEngine, after watching the leaked video, I can tell you 100% that it is HeroEngine. They tried to deny using it for the final version here http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/26/the-elder-scrolls-online-using-heroengine-as-a-whiteboard/ . They never dropped it, it was just a PR move to avoid the connection with TOR and HeroEngine. From the way the terrain textures are laid on the ground to the way the  grass blades (billboards) blow in the wind, it is Heroengine.  Understand things like that differ  from engine to engine, for it to be exact means it's using the same core. Although the water shader has been modified. Everything else is Hero. Possibly that video was made during the "Whiteboard" stage of production, but what is in the video is Hero.

What a mess of wrong you have conjured together, there are so many ways to disprove your tin foil drama post its just funny.

it only turns to tinfoil when people like you come in here posting, I have said nothing bad about Heroengine or TESO have I? Any drama you are seeing is in your brain becasue you are a person who only knows drama. 

oh please.  you're the one trying to stir up drama.  you accuse of zenimax of pr spin in your post.  who cares if they are using the hero engine or not?  i don't.  if the game's fun i'll play it. 

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Cleffy

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5530

4/17/13 3:41:06 PM#33

Most likely, TESO is on a heavily modified Hero Engine.  Remember, they said Skyrim was built on its own custom engine.  However, that was built on a heavily modified Gamebryo Engine.  It would be foolish to design on the hero engine, yet not use it as a base for an mmo.  There is the base code for an mmo written into the Hero Engine that would take years to recode.  It really does not make sense to redo the basics that amount to hundreds of thousands lines of code.  Most engines are designed to be modified and come with sparse features, but matured tools.  With C++ you don't even need to bother taking out code, you can just make the function a virtual.

Out of any middle-ware engine, Hero Engine has the best design tools which significantly decreases lag during the production pipeline.  For any mmo hoping to be successful, reducing production pipeline overhead is one of the most important things to tackle.  Making it easy to add content is cost effective and necessary for a stable playerbase.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4029

4/17/13 3:54:15 PM#34
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by wowclones
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by wowclones

First off, HeroEngine is a great engine, so this is not a flame post. I have been a long time user of HeroEngine, after watching the leaked video, I can tell you 100% that it is HeroEngine. They tried to deny using it for the final version here http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/26/the-elder-scrolls-online-using-heroengine-as-a-whiteboard/ . They never dropped it, it was just a PR move to avoid the connection with TOR and HeroEngine. From the way the terrain textures are laid on the ground to the way the  grass blades (billboards) blow in the wind, it is Heroengine.  Understand things like that differ  from engine to engine, for it to be exact means it's using the same core. Although the water shader has been modified. Everything else is Hero. Possibly that video was made during the "Whiteboard" stage of production, but what is in the video is Hero.

What a mess of wrong you have conjured together, there are so many ways to disprove your tin foil drama post its just funny.

it only turns to tinfoil when people like you come in here posting, I have said nothing bad about Heroengine or TESO have I? Any drama you are seeing is in your brain becasue you are a person who only knows drama. 

oh please.  you're the one trying to stir up drama.  you accuse of zenimax of pr spin in your post.  who cares if they are using the hero engine or not?  i don't.  if the game's fun i'll play it. 

 Actually there was a distinct lack of spin in his post and a disclaimer to boot. If there's any drama here, he didn't start it.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/17/13 3:58:28 PM#35
Cleffy virtual functions are a massive performance hit.

I doubt high performance games use them, they will use other techniques like templates.
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/19/13 5:16:53 AM#36
Originally posted by BadSpock

There are plenty of awful games that use modified Unreal engine too.

Just because TOR had a lot of problems with Hero engine doesn't mean all games that use Hero engine (or pieces of it) are destined to have the same problems.

Lesson in causality.

People like to point fingers and say "See! This is why, right here!"

Because simple explainations to complex problems are easy for us to digest.

Easy for us to rally behind and pontificate against.

 

Agreed!

A whole bunch of people on forums like these could do with reading up about 'root cause analysis' before posting.

As for the Hero Engine and Matt's claims - I see nothing damning about it - he didn't say how much modification of the engine was going to be going on, or in what areas - animation, UI, textures, AA, etc. etc.

My wife is a dev, so I only have second hand wisdom to offer on this. However, she is always bangng on about the success of products rely more on the innovative ways in which existing platforms are used rather than the platform. It tends to be when a paradigm shift in platform comes that allows completely new capabilities that the platform itself starts to become the dominant issue.

So it would appear to me that the question is - has a paradigm shift in game engines really made the Hero Engine obsolete, or are we assuming so because previous uses of it have been unimaginative?

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3714

4/19/13 6:08:20 AM#37
There are also cases where platforms and engines are designed using patterns that are fundementally incorrect. For example you design a website using a request-respons messaging strategy and then find it doesn't scale well. You can tweak around the edges, use threading, callbacks, async calls and you may get a big improvement in performance at the cost of complexity but you are still dealing with a potentially inappropriate design, a far better and simple solution would be to throw away the engine and use a service bus instead.

The question boils down to wether the hero engine is a suitable architecture for modern mmorgs.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1944

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

4/19/13 6:11:33 AM#38
Originally posted by wowclones

First off, HeroEngine is a great engine, so this is not a flame post. I have been a long time user of HeroEngine, after watching the leaked video, I can tell you 100% that it is HeroEngine. They tried to deny using it for the final version here http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/26/the-elder-scrolls-online-using-heroengine-as-a-whiteboard/ . They never dropped it, it was just a PR move to avoid the connection with TOR and HeroEngine. From the way the terrain textures are laid on the ground to the way the  grass blades (billboards) blow in the wind, it is Heroengine.  Understand things like that differ  from engine to engine, for it to be exact means it's using the same core. Although the water shader has been modified. Everything else is Hero. Possibly that video was made during the "Whiteboard" stage of production, but what is in the video is Hero.

you didn't read what they said, did you?

it's not using a modified hero engine, they are taking ideas from it.

 

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  JC-Smith

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/11
Posts: 353

4/07/14 3:48:52 AM#39
Couldn't help but notice the Hero Engine logo on the installer screen to TeSO. So it's still using Hero. My guess is they replaced the renderer kept the server code.
  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5340

4/07/14 4:03:52 AM#40
Originally posted by JC-Smith
Couldn't help but notice the Hero Engine logo on the installer screen to TeSO. So it's still using Hero. My guess is they replaced the renderer kept the server code.

If you pay close attention you will also see something else pop up during the intro splash screens. ;)

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