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MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 04/04/14)  | Pub:Bethesda Softworks
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475 posts found
  Bigdaddyx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1590

4/04/13 4:44:59 AM#441
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

OK I'm answering the last red bit;

Of course you can make changes - but they didn't do it sympathetically. The Mario games fanbase didn't hanker for years for a multiplayer version of the game - so when a new Maerio game came out with a different game style it was fine - no hopes or expectation broken.

However, TES fans have been waiting for someone to make an MMO or multiplayer version for a long time. The fact is (as is now moot - they are doing it...) that they put too much bias on mass PvP and not enough consideration for what makes TES games GREAT.

You are flat out wrong if you think a company seeking to make money and gain reputation from a game aimed squarely at an existing fanbase doesn't take full account of the things that they love about that IP.

It would seem they now agree having seen the widespread surprise and dissapointment expressed on every forum from here to the four corners of the internet about these very issues.

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

I would agree with you if you knew entire TES playerbase. Which is not even possible.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

4/04/13 7:10:37 AM#442
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

OK I'm answering the last red bit;

Of course you can make changes - but they didn't do it sympathetically. The Mario games fanbase didn't hanker for years for a multiplayer version of the game - so when a new Maerio game came out with a different game style it was fine - no hopes or expectation broken.

However, TES fans have been waiting for someone to make an MMO or multiplayer version for a long time. The fact is (as is now moot - they are doing it...) that they put too much bias on mass PvP and not enough consideration for what makes TES games GREAT.

You are flat out wrong if you think a company seeking to make money and gain reputation from a game aimed squarely at an existing fanbase doesn't take full account of the things that they love about that IP.

It would seem they now agree having seen the widespread surprise and dissapointment expressed on every forum from here to the four corners of the internet about these very issues.

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

I am also from the TES fan base. I have been playing TES going back to when they were 8 bit games. Of all single player RPGs TES franchises is my fav. Stop acting like you talk for the whole player fan base. Thats where you fail again!!!! More of the same over and over often is the death of franchises often is because of a lack of inavation. Grow or die. I am a fan and love the direction of this game. Get over your self as you and your kind are not as big a mob as you think you are. We fans on MMOrpg.com start thinking we are the majority opinion. We are just 2 mill members here of many millions. WoW alone has 10 million subs. 2 Million over all MMOs is nothing. Matter of fact my bet most members here have become the MMO hoppers.  

I refuse to act like I am speaking for the majority but you make a little poll on a sub section of the MMO community and you think you have some great insight. You dont. Fact, some will like the model and some will not. Lots of TES fans will play this never with a care of what model it is as they will be playing their first MMO or are MMO fans as well and just wont care. And then there is the rabbid fans this thread supports. They will play the game no matter what but in the end rage quit because it dose not fit the LITTLE BOX they think it should. Even if its a good game they will most likely quit. Seen it happen with many a MMO that picks a great IP. When you pick a great IP you cant make all of them happy you just hope to get a good chunk of them.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/04/13 10:17:34 AM#443
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

OK I'm answering the last red bit;

Of course you can make changes - but they didn't do it sympathetically. The Mario games fanbase didn't hanker for years for a multiplayer version of the game - so when a new Maerio game came out with a different game style it was fine - no hopes or expectation broken.

However, TES fans have been waiting for someone to make an MMO or multiplayer version for a long time. The fact is (as is now moot - they are doing it...) that they put too much bias on mass PvP and not enough consideration for what makes TES games GREAT.

You are flat out wrong if you think a company seeking to make money and gain reputation from a game aimed squarely at an existing fanbase doesn't take full account of the things that they love about that IP.

It would seem they now agree having seen the widespread surprise and dissapointment expressed on every forum from here to the four corners of the internet about these very issues.

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

I would agree with you if you knew entire TES playerbase. Which is not even possible.

Ah this minimus kind of argument again.

I never claimed to represent the whole player base - I can however reasonably claim that the TES playerbase like TES because of the things that make it fun. There may be a few people somewhere who play it because they hate it...

The likes of Nan think what makes TES fun can be thrown out with the dishwater without a problem.

Zenimax and every forum you care to visit where this issue comes up doesn't support this where TES fans speak up.

Find me a TES fan site where this isn't/wasn't thought to be a problem by said TES fans and I'll concede the point.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/04/13 10:24:00 AM#444
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

OK I'm answering the last red bit;

Of course you can make changes - but they didn't do it sympathetically. The Mario games fanbase didn't hanker for years for a multiplayer version of the game - so when a new Maerio game came out with a different game style it was fine - no hopes or expectation broken.

However, TES fans have been waiting for someone to make an MMO or multiplayer version for a long time. The fact is (as is now moot - they are doing it...) that they put too much bias on mass PvP and not enough consideration for what makes TES games GREAT.

You are flat out wrong if you think a company seeking to make money and gain reputation from a game aimed squarely at an existing fanbase doesn't take full account of the things that they love about that IP.

It would seem they now agree having seen the widespread surprise and dissapointment expressed on every forum from here to the four corners of the internet about these very issues.

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

I am also from the TES fan base. I have been playing TES going back to when they were 8 bit games. Of all single player RPGs TES franchises is my fav. Stop acting like you talk for the whole player fan base. Thats where you fail again!!!! More of the same over and over often is the death of franchises often is because of a lack of inavation. Grow or die. I am a fan and love the direction of this game. Get over your self as you and your kind are not as big a mob as you think you are. We fans on MMOrpg.com start thinking we are the majority opinion. We are just 2 mill members here of many millions. WoW alone has 10 million subs. 2 Million over all MMOs is nothing. Matter of fact my bet most members here have become the MMO hoppers.  

I refuse to act like I am speaking for the majority but you make a little poll on a sub section of the MMO community and you think you have some great insight. You dont. Fact, some will like the model and some will not. Lots of TES fans will play this never with a care of what model it is as they will be playing their first MMO or are MMO fans as well and just wont care. And then there is the rabbid fans this thread supports. They will play the game no matter what but in the end rage quit because it dose not fit the LITTLE BOX they think it should. Even if its a good game they will most likely quit. Seen it happen with many a MMO that picks a great IP. When you pick a great IP you cant make all of them happy you just hope to get a good chunk of them.

'rabbid', 'ragequite', etc.

You criticise me for bias I admit to, and support with my opinions. Then you claim you don't have any yourself and 'scream' your disdain for the very people you are addressing with these sorts of references.

Some might call that hypocrisy.

Why don't you do a poll stating your opinions and see what percentages you get Nan?

  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 625

4/04/13 10:28:13 AM#445
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

OK I'm answering the last red bit;

Of course you can make changes - but they didn't do it sympathetically. The Mario games fanbase didn't hanker for years for a multiplayer version of the game - so when a new Maerio game came out with a different game style it was fine - no hopes or expectation broken.

However, TES fans have been waiting for someone to make an MMO or multiplayer version for a long time. The fact is (as is now moot - they are doing it...) that they put too much bias on mass PvP and not enough consideration for what makes TES games GREAT.

You are flat out wrong if you think a company seeking to make money and gain reputation from a game aimed squarely at an existing fanbase doesn't take full account of the things that they love about that IP.

It would seem they now agree having seen the widespread surprise and dissapointment expressed on every forum from here to the four corners of the internet about these very issues.

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

I am also from the TES fan base. I have been playing TES going back to when they were 8 bit games. Of all single player RPGs TES franchises is my fav. Stop acting like you talk for the whole player fan base. Thats where you fail again!!!! More of the same over and over often is the death of franchises often is because of a lack of inavation. Grow or die. I am a fan and love the direction of this game. Get over your self as you and your kind are not as big a mob as you think you are. We fans on MMOrpg.com start thinking we are the majority opinion. We are just 2 mill members here of many millions. WoW alone has 10 million subs. 2 Million over all MMOs is nothing. Matter of fact my bet most members here have become the MMO hoppers.  

I refuse to act like I am speaking for the majority but you make a little poll on a sub section of the MMO community and you think you have some great insight. You dont. Fact, some will like the model and some will not. Lots of TES fans will play this never with a care of what model it is as they will be playing their first MMO or are MMO fans as well and just wont care. And then there is the rabbid fans this thread supports. They will play the game no matter what but in the end rage quit because it dose not fit the LITTLE BOX they think it should. Even if its a good game they will most likely quit. Seen it happen with many a MMO that picks a great IP. When you pick a great IP you cant make all of them happy you just hope to get a good chunk of them.

'rabbid', 'ragequite', etc.

You criticise me for bias I admit to, and support with my opinions. Then you claim you don't have any yourself and 'scream' your disdain for the very people you are addressing with these sorts of references.

Some might call that hypocrisy.

Why don't you do a poll stating your opinions and see what percentages you get Nan?

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

4/04/13 10:29:30 AM#446
Originally posted by Caliburn101
 

Ah this minimus kind of argument again.

I never claimed to represent the whole player base - I can however reasonably claim that the TES playerbase like TES because of the things that make it fun. There may be a few people somewhere who play it because they hate it...

The likes of Nan think what makes TES fun can be thrown out with the dishwater without a problem.

Zenimax and every forum you care to visit where this issue comes up doesn't support this where TES fans speak up.

Find me a TES fan site where this isn't/wasn't thought to be a problem by said TES fans and I'll concede the point.

It is not minimus at all. When you begin to project and speak on behalf of entire player base (no matter how reasonable you think your claims is) it is just down hill from there.

It is very old tactic of argument by the way where people bring in these unseen and unheard 'playerbase' to give more volume to their argument. Old pressure tactics.

If i vist every single forum about TES i am sure i can find a lot of topics / posts which state otherwise doesn't mean i can 'reasonably' represent them all or use it as a basis of my argument.

You are not the first one to claim that you know what others want just on the basis of what you read on the forums.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

4/04/13 10:40:38 AM#447
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Volmok

In one of their interviews they stated clearly that TESO is not a successor to TES, while it has similarities, it is clearly not a sequel to it.

Also, if we are to think about it it makes sense to make it similar to TES to draw the fans from that area and also make it similar to other popular MMORPGs that are successful to get some clients from that area.

Also, it is too soon to evaluate since there is little gamplay footage or few beta players that post about it, we have to wait and see and most important: keep your wallets closed and wait for the release, not the founder pack or pre-pre-pre-purchase and then complain that it was not what you epected ;)

 

V.

It doesn't matter what THEY say - THEY put 'Elder Scrolls' in the title - THEY have to live with that - and are learning what it means aren't they?

;)

 

They said that because they knew there would be fanatic TES fans who would expect ESO to be a mirror of TES with group play lol. Much like this thread proves. They were saying this is a MMO and it cant fit TES to the letter. Like any art form, when you change mediums it cant keep everything and sometimes things need to be added to make it work as well. Great you think it fit a sandbox type game not everyone thinks so best off all, the corporation that owns TES didnt think so.

My point stands - they didn't anticipate the reaction to fundamental changes - and they clearly think they overstepped the mark or they would have ignored the criticism and kept the game as was.

They didn't just put ES in the title - they built the world the same, they invoked lore, they took ES lock, stock and barrel and I would bet real money some of them are reviewing early design decisions with a sigh.

That said - yes - making it an MMO was always going to tread on some toes - but they do not appear to have thought holistically about 'what makes TES great' and 'what makes DaOC great' and then sensitively compromise.

They had a hack at it and didn't get it right. Now they have had another and it would appear much improved - as appearances go.

The point being - you cannot use a name and a game history to sell a game and then make deep changes with no definitive requirement. Sure, put in raids and mass factionalised PvP - these are usual MMO elements. But taking out fundamental IP elements when it was't necessary for factional PvP - that was ill advised.

They made a change that didnt impact the core design and added about 400hrs of elder game. Was a good move on their part. As for anticipating the reaction lol. They did and thats why they said from the start this is not TES 7 its a MMO. As for the size of the reaction, its not that big lol. It has a huge following and a few upset MMO fans because its not the core model they would have picked is no big deal. Why? Because there are lots of fans of the DAoC model that will play and there is lots of TES fans that will play no matter what model they pick. Here @ MMOrpg.com we are the few and the hard core MMOers. We make up a small % of who buys the game and the mojority will play it as long as its a good game. Keep crying its still the same game it was 6 months ago and the same game it will be at launch.

EDIT: (Reply to whats in red) Yes you can and thats what makes video games awesome. Warcraft changed to become WoW. Mario stopped fixing pipes and went to save his girlfriend Peach in a 2D scroller and now is even bigger in 3D. EQ1 to EQ2 are very different games but both do very well and over the years have made a real name for MMOs and EQnext will be a new direction for that game again. Sorry your flat out wrong!!!! 

OK I'm answering the last red bit;

Of course you can make changes - but they didn't do it sympathetically. The Mario games fanbase didn't hanker for years for a multiplayer version of the game - so when a new Maerio game came out with a different game style it was fine - no hopes or expectation broken.

However, TES fans have been waiting for someone to make an MMO or multiplayer version for a long time. The fact is (as is now moot - they are doing it...) that they put too much bias on mass PvP and not enough consideration for what makes TES games GREAT.

You are flat out wrong if you think a company seeking to make money and gain reputation from a game aimed squarely at an existing fanbase doesn't take full account of the things that they love about that IP.

It would seem they now agree having seen the widespread surprise and dissapointment expressed on every forum from here to the four corners of the internet about these very issues.

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

I am also from the TES fan base. I have been playing TES going back to when they were 8 bit games. Of all single player RPGs TES franchises is my fav. Stop acting like you talk for the whole player fan base. Thats where you fail again!!!! More of the same over and over often is the death of franchises often is because of a lack of inavation. Grow or die. I am a fan and love the direction of this game. Get over your self as you and your kind are not as big a mob as you think you are. We fans on MMOrpg.com start thinking we are the majority opinion. We are just 2 mill members here of many millions. WoW alone has 10 million subs. 2 Million over all MMOs is nothing. Matter of fact my bet most members here have become the MMO hoppers.  

I refuse to act like I am speaking for the majority but you make a little poll on a sub section of the MMO community and you think you have some great insight. You dont. Fact, some will like the model and some will not. Lots of TES fans will play this never with a care of what model it is as they will be playing their first MMO or are MMO fans as well and just wont care. And then there is the rabbid fans this thread supports. They will play the game no matter what but in the end rage quit because it dose not fit the LITTLE BOX they think it should. Even if its a good game they will most likely quit. Seen it happen with many a MMO that picks a great IP. When you pick a great IP you cant make all of them happy you just hope to get a good chunk of them.

'rabbid', 'ragequite', etc.

You criticise me for bias I admit to, and support with my opinions. Then you claim you don't have any yourself and 'scream' your disdain for the very people you are addressing with these sorts of references.

Some might call that hypocrisy.

Why don't you do a poll stating your opinions and see what percentages you get Nan?

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

Polls at best are fun not fact finding. I would not make a poll on this topic as its scope of players it should cover could never be reached. Like my 5 friends who are TES fans but dont like or never play MMOs but will be playing ESO. They would never come to this forum as TES fans who are not MMO fans. Same with any fan URL thats about ESO. We will get a cross section of MMO fans from everywhere to play ESO but with the IP we will also get a lot of new MMOers as well. You gona go knock on their doors?

IMO they picked DAoC as the model to grab at the large number of MMO fans who have been yelling forever "Where is a new MMO we can goto with 3 faction war?" and it also gives new MMOers who like TES a place to play without being attacked. As a TES fan I think its the perfect fit of MMO fans and TES fans in one package. You disagree and its your right to but dont think your poll is the holly grail and true answer to how people feel.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/04/13 10:52:58 AM#448
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Caliburn101
 

Ah this minimus kind of argument again.

I never claimed to represent the whole player base - I can however reasonably claim that the TES playerbase like TES because of the things that make it fun. There may be a few people somewhere who play it because they hate it...

The likes of Nan think what makes TES fun can be thrown out with the dishwater without a problem.

Zenimax and every forum you care to visit where this issue comes up doesn't support this where TES fans speak up.

Find me a TES fan site where this isn't/wasn't thought to be a problem by said TES fans and I'll concede the point.

It is not minimus at all. When you begin to project and speak on behalf of entire player base (no matter how reasonable you think your claims is) it is just down hill from there.

It is very old tactic of argument by the way where people bring in these unseen and unheard 'playerbase' to give more volume to their argument. Old pressure tactics.

If i vist every single forum about TES i am sure i can find a lot of topics / posts which state otherwise doesn't mean i can 'reasonably' represent them all or use it as a basis of my argument.

You are not the first one to claim that you know what others want just on the basis of what you read on the forums

I made no such claim - stop putting words in my mouth.

If you need it qualified so you can understand the point - then just put 'concerned' before playerbase.

If you want to base an entire argument on a single instance of symantics then trust me - you are going no-where and will be hung by your own petard...

Zenimax changed the game because of the TES fans - not as they would have done for a minority of TES fans, or a vocal few - but because they felt they had misstepped.

They certainly didn't do it because of me - the idea is laughable.

Just like it's laughable that a few rabid fans could have got them to make this fundamental change towards what was being asked for.

If TES fans hadn't been asking for it - it wouldn't have happened.

Of course that's a much more difficult position to criticise when compared to a quickly typed and imperfectly constructed reference.

If that's the only wiggle room available to you - by all means thrash it to death. It won't make any difference to the changes being made.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/04/13 11:02:01 AM#449
Originally posted by Bossalinie

 

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

Nan's entire approach from the get-go has been to deconstruct and critique.

I haven't read any significant constructive suggestion from him during this whole debate - just 'it cannot be done' (proven wrong), it 'shouldn't be done' (unsupported with a cohesive argument as to why) and 'it will ruin the 3-way factional pvp' (refuted by a number of posters - all of their reasoned arguments then unaddressed).

The argument Nan uses is in my opinion similar to sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting 'la la la'.

I would LOVE him to prove me wrong by coming up with a constructive contribution, defining his point of view and the testing it in the court of online opinion.

But he doesn't - and as one person on these forums makes hillariously clear in his signature quote - can contradict himself mid-stride.

It's ever so easy to say 'I don't believe in polls; I don't represent anyone; I stand for nothing - but I'm right anyway' - and then cyberstalk any argument to the contrary.

Much harder to openly stand for something, lay out your stall in it's entirety and then defend your position.

But he doesn't do it does he...

 

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

4/04/13 1:04:49 PM#450
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Caliburn101
 

Ah this minimus kind of argument again.

I never claimed to represent the whole player base - I can however reasonably claim that the TES playerbase like TES because of the things that make it fun. There may be a few people somewhere who play it because they hate it...

The likes of Nan think what makes TES fun can be thrown out with the dishwater without a problem.

Zenimax and every forum you care to visit where this issue comes up doesn't support this where TES fans speak up.

Find me a TES fan site where this isn't/wasn't thought to be a problem by said TES fans and I'll concede the point.

It is not minimus at all. When you begin to project and speak on behalf of entire player base (no matter how reasonable you think your claims is) it is just down hill from there.

It is very old tactic of argument by the way where people bring in these unseen and unheard 'playerbase' to give more volume to their argument. Old pressure tactics.

If i vist every single forum about TES i am sure i can find a lot of topics / posts which state otherwise doesn't mean i can 'reasonably' represent them all or use it as a basis of my argument.

You are not the first one to claim that you know what others want just on the basis of what you read on the forums

I made no such claim - stop putting words in my mouth.

If you need it qualified so you can understand the point - then just put 'concerned' before playerbase.

If you want to base an entire argument on a single instance of symantics then trust me - you are going no-where and will be hung by your own petard...

Zenimax changed the game because of the TES fans - not as they would have done for a minority of TES fans, or a vocal few - but because they felt they had misstepped.

They certainly didn't do it because of me - the idea is laughable.

Just like it's laughable that a few rabid fans could have got them to make this fundamental change towards what was being asked for.

If TES fans hadn't been asking for it - it wouldn't have happened.

Of course that's a much more difficult position to criticise when compared to a quickly typed and imperfectly constructed reference.

If that's the only wiggle room available to you - by all means thrash it to death. It won't make any difference to the changes being made.

Symantics? putting words in your mouth?

Or perhaps the whole TES playerbase is wrong huh Nan?

Your words not mine.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

4/04/13 1:21:44 PM#451
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Bossalinie

 

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

Nan's entire approach from the get-go has been to deconstruct and critique.

I haven't read any significant constructive suggestion from him during this whole debate - just 'it cannot be done' (proven wrong), it 'shouldn't be done' (unsupported with a cohesive argument as to why) and 'it will ruin the 3-way factional pvp' (refuted by a number of posters - all of their reasoned arguments then unaddressed).

The argument Nan uses is in my opinion similar to sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting 'la la la'.

I would LOVE him to prove me wrong by coming up with a constructive contribution, defining his point of view and the testing it in the court of online opinion.

But he doesn't - and as one person on these forums makes hillariously clear in his signature quote - can contradict himself mid-stride.

It's ever so easy to say 'I don't believe in polls; I don't represent anyone; I stand for nothing - but I'm right anyway' - and then cyberstalk any argument to the contrary.

Much harder to openly stand for something, lay out your stall in it's entirety and then defend your position.

But he doesn't do it does he...

 

Wrong and lies again. I started a thread on options on how to let people explore everywhere without breaking the 3 factions, look HERE. I have made suggestions on how there could be more races. I am all for change as long as it does not break the core model of the game. You on the other hand, sorry my mom taught me to say nothing at all.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/04/13 1:49:08 PM#452
Originally posted by Caliburn101

It's ever so easy to say 'I don't believe in polls; I don't represent anyone; I stand for nothing - but I'm right anyway' - and then cyberstalk any argument to the contrary.

Not directly related to the topic at hand, but can you really cyberstalk an argument that you've been involved in since the beginning? Isn't that an unfair characterization of what he's doing, and are you not simply using that word in an attempt to color anything he says (past or present) in a negative way, as if he has an agenda beyond the debate?

Just a thought.

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

4/04/13 1:51:45 PM#453
By grabthar's hammer, what are you all even going on about any more? de-railed much? ;-)


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/04/13 2:08:19 PM#454
Originally posted by Tuktz
By grabthar's hammer, what are you all even going on about any more? de-railed much? ;-)

+1 for Galaxy Quest reference.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/07/13 3:00:09 PM#455
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Bossalinie

 

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

Nan's entire approach from the get-go has been to deconstruct and critique.

I haven't read any significant constructive suggestion from him during this whole debate - just 'it cannot be done' (proven wrong), it 'shouldn't be done' (unsupported with a cohesive argument as to why) and 'it will ruin the 3-way factional pvp' (refuted by a number of posters - all of their reasoned arguments then unaddressed).

The argument Nan uses is in my opinion similar to sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting 'la la la'.

I would LOVE him to prove me wrong by coming up with a constructive contribution, defining his point of view and the testing it in the court of online opinion.

But he doesn't - and as one person on these forums makes hillariously clear in his signature quote - can contradict himself mid-stride.

It's ever so easy to say 'I don't believe in polls; I don't represent anyone; I stand for nothing - but I'm right anyway' - and then cyberstalk any argument to the contrary.

Much harder to openly stand for something, lay out your stall in it's entirety and then defend your position.

But he doesn't do it does he...

 

Wrong and lies again. I started a thread on options on how to let people explore everywhere without breaking the 3 factions, look HERE. I have made suggestions on how there could be more races. I am all for change as long as it does not break the core model of the game. You on the other hand, sorry my mom taught me to say nothing at all.

A single idea is an illustration of your entire position is it?

Please...

You said categorically any change to the model they suggested would be impossible - too much code already written etc. Would ruin the game etc. and how we suggesting it needed to change couldn't possibly know better than the people making the game about the practicalities of doing it

Zenimax have stated they are going to change the game to accomodate what you argued endlessly against.

Zenimax think it can be done -and have come up with a cracking idea.

In short - Zenimax demonstrated that you were wrong.

So much for 'wrong and lies again'. Why don't you finally fess up and admit you got it spectactulary wrong? - if you can't define what you stand for anyway.

Of course if you already have admitted it - they give me a useful link in your next post - to that admission...

Or would you like to morph your position once again and claim Zenimax 'couldn't possibly know better than' you!?

THAT is my problem with your position - it changes like a chameleon to suit the immediate environment - and it would appear that you move on from such changes without so much as a backwards glance or a nod to those who ended up on the right side of the argument you feel the need to rapidly put behind you.

So how the hell is anyone meant to know what you stand for when this is apparently your entire MO?

Please do prove me wrong with some backdated stuff I missed - I'd applaud...

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/07/13 3:11:10 PM#456
Originally posted by Tuktz
By grabthar's hammer, what are you all even going on about any more? de-railed much? ;-)

Very good! :)

I commented ages ago about the irony of certain posters efforts keeping my thread alive despite themselves - I guess they didn't get it.

"The thread materialised inside out..................... and exploded!"

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

4/07/13 4:04:04 PM#457
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Bossalinie

 

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

Nan's entire approach from the get-go has been to deconstruct and critique.

I haven't read any significant constructive suggestion from him during this whole debate - just 'it cannot be done' (proven wrong), it 'shouldn't be done' (unsupported with a cohesive argument as to why) and 'it will ruin the 3-way factional pvp' (refuted by a number of posters - all of their reasoned arguments then unaddressed).

The argument Nan uses is in my opinion similar to sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting 'la la la'.

I would LOVE him to prove me wrong by coming up with a constructive contribution, defining his point of view and the testing it in the court of online opinion.

But he doesn't - and as one person on these forums makes hillariously clear in his signature quote - can contradict himself mid-stride.

It's ever so easy to say 'I don't believe in polls; I don't represent anyone; I stand for nothing - but I'm right anyway' - and then cyberstalk any argument to the contrary.

Much harder to openly stand for something, lay out your stall in it's entirety and then defend your position.

But he doesn't do it does he...

 

Wrong and lies again. I started a thread on options on how to let people explore everywhere without breaking the 3 factions, look HERE. I have made suggestions on how there could be more races. I am all for change as long as it does not break the core model of the game. You on the other hand, sorry my mom taught me to say nothing at all.

A single idea is an illustration of your entire position is it?

Please...

You said categorically any change to the model they suggested would be impossible - too much code already written etc. Would ruin the game etc. and how we suggesting it needed to change couldn't possibly know better than the people making the game about the practicalities of doing it

Zenimax have stated they are going to change the game to accomodate what you argued endlessly against.

Zenimax think it can be done -and have come up with a cracking idea.

In short - Zenimax demonstrated that you were wrong.

So much for 'wrong and lies again'. Why don't you finally fess up and admit you got it spectactulary wrong? - if you can't define what you stand for anyway.

Of course if you already have admitted it - they give me a useful link in your next post - to that admission...

Or would you like to morph your position once again and claim Zenimax 'couldn't possibly know better than' you!?

THAT is my problem with your position - it changes like a chameleon to suit the immediate environment - and it would appear that you move on from such changes without so much as a backwards glance or a nod to those who ended up on the right side of the argument you feel the need to rapidly put behind you.

So how the hell is anyone meant to know what you stand for when this is apparently your entire MO?

Please do prove me wrong with some backdated stuff I missed - I'd applaud...

I already provided you a link. Why would I bother with anything more? Your not worth more of my time.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/08/13 3:11:54 AM#458
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Bossalinie

 

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

Nan's entire approach from the get-go has been to deconstruct and critique.

I haven't read any significant constructive suggestion from him during this whole debate - just 'it cannot be done' (proven wrong), it 'shouldn't be done' (unsupported with a cohesive argument as to why) and 'it will ruin the 3-way factional pvp' (refuted by a number of posters - all of their reasoned arguments then unaddressed).

The argument Nan uses is in my opinion similar to sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting 'la la la'.

I would LOVE him to prove me wrong by coming up with a constructive contribution, defining his point of view and the testing it in the court of online opinion.

But he doesn't - and as one person on these forums makes hillariously clear in his signature quote - can contradict himself mid-stride.

It's ever so easy to say 'I don't believe in polls; I don't represent anyone; I stand for nothing - but I'm right anyway' - and then cyberstalk any argument to the contrary.

Much harder to openly stand for something, lay out your stall in it's entirety and then defend your position.

But he doesn't do it does he...

 

Wrong and lies again. I started a thread on options on how to let people explore everywhere without breaking the 3 factions, look HERE. I have made suggestions on how there could be more races. I am all for change as long as it does not break the core model of the game. You on the other hand, sorry my mom taught me to say nothing at all.

A single idea is an illustration of your entire position is it?

Please...

You said categorically any change to the model they suggested would be impossible - too much code already written etc. Would ruin the game etc. and how we suggesting it needed to change couldn't possibly know better than the people making the game about the practicalities of doing it

Zenimax have stated they are going to change the game to accomodate what you argued endlessly against.

Zenimax think it can be done -and have come up with a cracking idea.

In short - Zenimax demonstrated that you were wrong.

So much for 'wrong and lies again'. Why don't you finally fess up and admit you got it spectactulary wrong? - if you can't define what you stand for anyway.

Of course if you already have admitted it - they give me a useful link in your next post - to that admission...

Or would you like to morph your position once again and claim Zenimax 'couldn't possibly know better than' you!?

THAT is my problem with your position - it changes like a chameleon to suit the immediate environment - and it would appear that you move on from such changes without so much as a backwards glance or a nod to those who ended up on the right side of the argument you feel the need to rapidly put behind you.

So how the hell is anyone meant to know what you stand for when this is apparently your entire MO?

Please do prove me wrong with some backdated stuff I missed - I'd applaud...

I already provided you a link. Why would I bother with anything more? Your not worth more of my time.

Better to be break off than admit you got it wrong eh Nan?

Didn't need my crystal ball to see that one coming...

If you don't have the cojones to publically admit when your arguments are proven to be dross - then I would argue you don't have the slightest right to call other people liars, even less to have your posts taken seriously.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

4/08/13 7:40:19 AM#459
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Bossalinie

 

If he states that creating polls are pointless, why would you ask him to make one?

Nan's entire approach from the get-go has been to deconstruct and critique.

I haven't read any significant constructive suggestion from him during this whole debate - just 'it cannot be done' (proven wrong), it 'shouldn't be done' (unsupported with a cohesive argument as to why) and 'it will ruin the 3-way factional pvp' (refuted by a number of posters - all of their reasoned arguments then unaddressed).

The argument Nan uses is in my opinion similar to sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting 'la la la'.

I would LOVE him to prove me wrong by coming up with a constructive contribution, defining his point of view and the testing it in the court of online opinion.

But he doesn't - and as one person on these forums makes hillariously clear in his signature quote - can contradict himself mid-stride.

It's ever so easy to say 'I don't believe in polls; I don't represent anyone; I stand for nothing - but I'm right anyway' - and then cyberstalk any argument to the contrary.

Much harder to openly stand for something, lay out your stall in it's entirety and then defend your position.

But he doesn't do it does he...

 

Wrong and lies again. I started a thread on options on how to let people explore everywhere without breaking the 3 factions, look HERE. I have made suggestions on how there could be more races. I am all for change as long as it does not break the core model of the game. You on the other hand, sorry my mom taught me to say nothing at all.

A single idea is an illustration of your entire position is it?

Please...

You said categorically any change to the model they suggested would be impossible - too much code already written etc. Would ruin the game etc. and how we suggesting it needed to change couldn't possibly know better than the people making the game about the practicalities of doing it

Zenimax have stated they are going to change the game to accomodate what you argued endlessly against.

Zenimax think it can be done -and have come up with a cracking idea.

In short - Zenimax demonstrated that you were wrong.

So much for 'wrong and lies again'. Why don't you finally fess up and admit you got it spectactulary wrong? - if you can't define what you stand for anyway.

Of course if you already have admitted it - they give me a useful link in your next post - to that admission...

Or would you like to morph your position once again and claim Zenimax 'couldn't possibly know better than' you!?

THAT is my problem with your position - it changes like a chameleon to suit the immediate environment - and it would appear that you move on from such changes without so much as a backwards glance or a nod to those who ended up on the right side of the argument you feel the need to rapidly put behind you.

So how the hell is anyone meant to know what you stand for when this is apparently your entire MO?

Please do prove me wrong with some backdated stuff I missed - I'd applaud...

I already provided you a link. Why would I bother with anything more? Your not worth more of my time.

Better to stop posting to my reply that are drivel and insulting eh Nan?

When I look in my crystal ball to see that all i do is taunt and insult because its easier then seeing other peoples sides of an argument. Seeing you did so in that link only show how I have come up wanting and fallen short.

I don't have the cojones to publically admit my arguments are proven to only to stir the pot - then I would argue just for the fun of trashing others even if the only way to do so is to  lie, what else am I to do when I have no leg to stand on.

fixed

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  4/08/13 10:25:37 AM#460

 

Better to stop posting to my reply that are drivel and insulting eh Nan?

When I look in my crystal ball to see that all i do is taunt and insult because its easier then seeing other peoples sides of an argument. Seeing you did so in that link only show how I have come up wanting and fallen short.

I don't have the cojones to publically admit my arguments are proven to only to stir the pot - then I would argue just for the fun of trashing others even if the only way to do so is to  lie, what else am I to do when I have no leg to stand on.

fixed

My thanks for illustrating more clearly than I could ever have done the way you approach these forums.

Changing other people posts to suit yourself, and then criticising or insulting those whose words you have changed the meaning of.

I have to say I never thought you to do it so literally... one of your usual badly constructed obfuscations was what I was expecting to see.

Nice to see the mask slip so clearly...

On the repeated liar accusations - I suggest you read the thread involved again - I have made it clear that the reference in question was an unintended imprecision - and meant all those TES fans posting critically on the issue. The error of a rushed post.

Taking the position that imprecision in language should constitute evidence of deliberate falsehood is, to put it mildly, a little rich coming from you - whose posts are frequently imprecise. No-one, including myself have accused you of being a liar because of any grammatical or contextual mistakes - I would 'expect' the same courtesy...

However - as you have resorted to insults I feel justified in ignoring you from now on, and leave you the space here to have the last dayglow word...

...make it good...

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