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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » One giant server? bad idea

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50 posts found
  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2830

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/04/13 12:55:00 AM#21
Originally posted by DAS1337

Except those games aren't built around three faction PvP.  I don't quite understand how the campaigns will work.  If my faction holds Imperial City, yet in 20 other compaigns, it is another faction, then the work we did goes for nothing?

 

This whole megaserver deal confuses me.

As it does me but I am willing to give them the benefit of a doubt and see how it works myself.  I've got to think this will work really well since other games use similar tech so lets jsut wait and see.  Especially considering the rest of the game looks to be amazing.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Ishkal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/14/10
Posts: 44

4/04/13 12:55:57 AM#22

Mega server is an awsome way to do it......if it's done properly. You'll always have people to play with. All of the factions will be populated. In a well made game the lesser faction can win( IE UO-DaoC-Early Wow had almost no horde on any server yet horde owned world pvp ect ect).  Alot of players still play rgp for some rpg, yes even us pewpew lolzpwnzoxxors, and faction loyalty is usualy where that slight rpg fullfillment comes from.

This is a changefrom the norm that we are use to thats all but that does not mean bad we should just embrass it for what it is, what it could be, and what we'd like it to be... The QQ the hell outta em till they change it if it suckz : )

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2830

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/04/13 12:56:20 AM#23
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by chumsy84

So they are going to put everyone on one server. When looking at it from a PVP perspective it causes a lot of problems. First it allows faction favoritism, as soon as one faction controls Cyrodil then everyone could swap to their alt on that faction, boom instant rewards and powerups. Why fight for something when you could just join them? Its going to cause an imbalance. 

 

Despite the ignorant post, the title still holds true.... The main problem w/ one mega-server, is you can't have multiple rulesets... I wish you could have a PvE Carebear server like Gaheris, and also, a normal server for the more hardcore players. Lame.

Aye this is the only drawback I see but its not as big a deal if the rest of the game delivers.  Especially considering they are planning to provide content for many types of players.  Which is the beauty of Triple-A MMO's.  Indie's jsut dont have that luxury and as such are relegated to niche gameplay.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  muffins89

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1255

4/04/13 1:54:48 AM#24

it's almost exactly like gw2 is set up.

 

also they've said that your alternate characters won't be assigned to the same pvp campaign.  so they've already tought about that potential problem.  and solved it.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  pokrak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 88

there is always another battle to win

4/04/13 2:09:07 AM#25

Why not three big servers? Players should have to play on one realm per server...

 

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/04/13 2:15:28 AM#26

Giant servers, which are really just many servers and instances, have some pretty nice advantages. No need to worry about the population dying and needing to transfer off, for one. It dynamically shrinks and grows, adding and removing instances as needed.

Still, the disadvantages are large, too. It is difficult to develop much community or gain a reputation, good or bad, when you are in pool of potentially millions. Single servers let you get to know your fellow players much better as you see them often, not just when you are in instance 786 and they are too.

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2382

4/04/13 2:16:55 AM#27
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by DAS1337

Except those games aren't built around three faction PvP.  I don't quite understand how the campaigns will work.  If my faction holds Imperial City, yet in 20 other compaigns, it is another faction, then the work we did goes for nothing?

 

This whole megaserver deal confuses me.

EVE Online does have 3 Factions: The AMarr Empire, The Caldari State and The Gallente Federation.

Star Trek Online currently has 2 Factions Klingon Empire and Starfleet with a 3rd Faction The Romulans coming in May of this Year.

It doesnt matter if it doesnt live up to what you want it to be both EVE Online and Star Trek Online have proven that a single server for a MMO does Work. EVE Online has been proving it for 10 Years and Star Trek Online has been proving it for 3 Years.

They are completely different.  Those games are one server.  This game is all of them in one?  Meaning there can be 1000 different phases or instances of the same place, if not more.  Those people in the other instances will never see me.  There can be 50 campaigns in Cyrodil going on at once and I cannot affect any of the other 49.  My confusing lies in how it breaks immersion.  It's not one server, where everyone plays in the same space.  This is entirely different and I would like to know how it works.

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

4/04/13 2:29:01 AM#28
Originally posted by pokrak

Why not three big servers? Players should have to play on one realm per server...

 

 

That wouldn't actually be a bad idea, lol... Cept it wouldn't prevent faction balancing issues, unfortunately.

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

4/04/13 2:30:10 AM#29
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by DAS1337

Except those games aren't built around three faction PvP.  I don't quite understand how the campaigns will work.  If my faction holds Imperial City, yet in 20 other compaigns, it is another faction, then the work we did goes for nothing?

 

This whole megaserver deal confuses me.

EVE Online does have 3 Factions: The AMarr Empire, The Caldari State and The Gallente Federation.

Star Trek Online currently has 2 Factions Klingon Empire and Starfleet with a 3rd Faction The Romulans coming in May of this Year.

It doesnt matter if it doesnt live up to what you want it to be both EVE Online and Star Trek Online have proven that a single server for a MMO does Work. EVE Online has been proving it for 10 Years and Star Trek Online has been proving it for 3 Years.

They are completely different.  Those games are one server.  This game is all of them in one?  Meaning there can be 1000 different phases or instances of the same place, if not more.  Those people in the other instances will never see me.  There can be 50 campaigns in Cyrodil going on at once and I cannot affect any of the other 49.  My confusing lies in how it breaks immersion.  It's not one server, where everyone plays in the same space.  This is entirely different and I would like to know how it works.

Can you quote those "facts" or are you just another poster who loves disinformation?

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/04/13 2:32:29 AM#30
We didn't need all these responses to say. "You don't know what you're talking about, go rewatch the developer interviews and such."  

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/04/13 5:30:34 AM#31
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by chumsy84

So they are going to put everyone on one server. When looking at it from a PVP perspective it causes a lot of problems. First it allows faction favoritism, as soon as one faction controls Cyrodil then everyone could swap to their alt on that faction, boom instant rewards and powerups. Why fight for something when you could just join them? Its going to cause an imbalance. 

EVE Online and Star Trek Online both use 1 giant server for their games. Yet neither have the problems you claim a game would have using such a tech.

Games set in the vast, easily programmed nothingness of SPACE do not make for useful comparisons in these cases...

Typical MMOs are much more crowded which invalidates your point.

Darkfall Online and its Sequel DFUW are also on a Single Server so your point that only SciFi MMO's can do Single Server is also Invalidated.

Then you misunderstood my point - I didn't mention Darkfall or DFUW...

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

4/04/13 11:10:55 AM#32
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by chumsy84

So they are going to put everyone on one server. When looking at it from a PVP perspective it causes a lot of problems. First it allows faction favoritism, as soon as one faction controls Cyrodil then everyone could swap to their alt on that faction, boom instant rewards and powerups. Why fight for something when you could just join them? Its going to cause an imbalance. 

EVE Online and Star Trek Online both use 1 giant server for their games. Yet neither have the problems you claim a game would have using such a tech.

Games set in the vast, easily programmed nothingness of SPACE do not make for useful comparisons in these cases...

Typical MMOs are much more crowded which invalidates your point.

Setting really has very little to do with it.  Land-mass may be a little bit harder to program than "nothingness of Space," but not by a whole lot.  One could, after all, just resurrect Daggerfall's methodology...  or if not that extreme: I have heard Vanguard has comparable population densities as well.

The difference, really, is in the player-base.  Eve players (mostly) like the effects of having that much distance between the crowded hubs and active hotspots.  But 'typical' (wow-inspired) MMOs cater more to players who won't play without their fast-travel and instant access to everything.  Everything outside the 'active hubs' might as well not exist.

Yes, because "wow inspired" "fast travel" on gryphons that you went afk aboard (which I believe EQ did long before it, and probably a game long before it too), are so much different than warp queues in eve (provided you're not in lowsec).

Actually, I was thinking more of the instant-teleports that were popularized afterwards.  Also the instaports from things like dungeon-finder.  WoW was just the generational breakpoint between the bulk of content happening in 'open world' that one must travel through and the shift to putting most of it behind instances that one gets to instantly.

Oh, as for comparing gryphons to warp-queues: I've never been caught in a warp bubble or even a gate-camp (which *can* happen even in hi-sec in eve) on a gryphon :p

Don't be like that man, they're the same thing, don't get all high and mighty because you played eve for 14 days.

About two years or so, actually.  Which I admit, is nothing. 

And please, don't confuse bitterness over being a (mostly) neglected minority with getting "all high and mighty."  I'm not coming down on those people who like their teleports.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

4/04/13 11:22:53 AM#33
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by DAS1337

Except those games aren't built around three faction PvP.  I don't quite understand how the campaigns will work.  If my faction holds Imperial City, yet in 20 other compaigns, it is another faction, then the work we did goes for nothing?

 

This whole megaserver deal confuses me.

EVE Online does have 3 Factions: The AMarr Empire, The Caldari State and The Gallente Federation.

Star Trek Online currently has 2 Factions Klingon Empire and Starfleet with a 3rd Faction The Romulans coming in May of this Year.

It doesnt matter if it doesnt live up to what you want it to be both EVE Online and Star Trek Online have proven that a single server for a MMO does Work. EVE Online has been proving it for 10 Years and Star Trek Online has been proving it for 3 Years.

They are completely different.  Those games are one server.  This game is all of them in one?  Meaning there can be 1000 different phases or instances of the same place, if not more.  Those people in the other instances will never see me.  There can be 50 campaigns in Cyrodil going on at once and I cannot affect any of the other 49.  My confusing lies in how it breaks immersion.  It's not one server, where everyone plays in the same space.  This is entirely different and I would like to know how it works.

Can you quote those "facts" or are you just another poster who loves disinformation?

Can't find direct quotes, but he's mostly right.  Speculating (and thus possibly overstating) how *many* phases/instances will actually come up, but it is very different from the way EveO (and I presume STO) does the ''megaserver' idea.

Indirect quotes supporting this are touched on in these articles:

http://elderscrollsonline.info/mega-server

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2012/10/eso-media-event/

Cyrodiil will be divided into multiple campaigns:

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/03/28/conflict-in-cyrodiil-part-1

 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3709

4/04/13 11:25:54 AM#34
Originally posted by Sentnl
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by DAS1337

Except those games aren't built around three faction PvP.  I don't quite understand how the campaigns will work.  If my faction holds Imperial City, yet in 20 other compaigns, it is another faction, then the work we did goes for nothing?

 

This whole megaserver deal confuses me.

EVE Online does have 3 Factions: The AMarr Empire, The Caldari State and The Gallente Federation.

Star Trek Online currently has 2 Factions Klingon Empire and Starfleet with a 3rd Faction The Romulans coming in May of this Year.

It doesnt matter if it doesnt live up to what you want it to be both EVE Online and Star Trek Online have proven that a single server for a MMO does Work. EVE Online has been proving it for 10 Years and Star Trek Online has been proving it for 3 Years.

They are completely different.  Those games are one server.  This game is all of them in one?  Meaning there can be 1000 different phases or instances of the same place, if not more.  Those people in the other instances will never see me.  There can be 50 campaigns in Cyrodil going on at once and I cannot affect any of the other 49.  My confusing lies in how it breaks immersion.  It's not one server, where everyone plays in the same space.  This is entirely different and I would like to know how it works.

Can you quote those "facts" or are you just another poster who loves disinformation?

Seems there is some confusion on how the mega server works. Mage server is only for PvE. You will be able to team with anyone from your faction and hop between shards of the same map. Cyrodill will be a different story, much like servers you will pick a conflict. Each conflit like servers will have unique names. When ever you Q up for Cyrodill you will be joining the conflit you and your guild picked. Every time you go into your conflict you will see the same guilds on both sides of the war. You will get to know the guilds you fight with and kill on the other factions. If you want to switch conflits it will be as hard to do as switching servers in any other MMO.

  User Deleted
4/04/13 2:29:00 PM#35

You guys are missing the real issue.  It has nothing to do with mega server technology.  It has to do with a community divided by an arbitrary NPC faction.

The reason stuff like this works for sandboxes, like EVE (and darkfall i guess) is that there is no "choose your side" at character creation..or even at any point down the road.  Factions are sandbox factions, based on clans/guilds/corporations and their alliances.

Theres always going to be faction balance issues in a game that forces its players to choose one side or the other (even if its 3 or more factions)

Theres alway going to be more people who care most about winning and less about a challange, therefore people will instantly scrap their character and reroll on the percieved OP faction.

The only game that really did this right was Anarchy Online.  You were able to be neuteral, and you were able to switch factions. Even then one faction (at least early on in the games life i dunno now) became the popular one, however, it was a game that was build around one faction being the overwhelming power and the other the rebels..as a neuteral you were able to side with whoever you wanted, and at the time the lower activity side got all the neuteral participants because they got into pvp faster.

 

Anyway..your never going to create a situation where all factions are equally balanced so long as you ask your players to pick a side and then force those preset sides to war eachother.

The only solution is to remove fake factions and let players form their own alliances and factions. This way you give the ability for many allainces to team up and fight a stronger and larger alliance...

  Zohdi118

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 76

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

4/04/13 2:34:22 PM#36


Originally posted by chumsy84 So they are going to put everyone on one server. When looking at it from a PVP perspective it causes a lot of problems. First it allows faction favoritism, as soon as one faction controls Cyrodil then everyone could swap to their alt on that faction, boom instant rewards and powerups. Why fight for something when you could just join them? Its going to cause an imbalance.


Had to edit......this post referring to one-world mega server which I don't believe will be happening. There most likely will be multiple shards/servers running logically using megaserver architecture. Just my two cents.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/04/13 2:48:54 PM#37


Originally posted by Zohdi118

Originally posted by chumsy84 So they are going to put everyone on one server. When looking at it from a PVP perspective it causes a lot of problems. First it allows faction favoritism, as soon as one faction controls Cyrodil then everyone could swap to their alt on that faction, boom instant rewards and powerups. Why fight for something when you could just join them? Its going to cause an imbalance.


Had to edit......this post referring to one-world mega server which I don't believe will be happening. There most likely will be multiple shards/servers running logically using megaserver architecture. Just my two cents.




It will be one server, but with "channels". Each channel will hold a certain number of people, possibly per zone. Switching channels will be a painless process so that players can play with people they know.

If players start the game late, they don't have to worry about servers being full. If you meet someone outside of the game, meeting up in the game will be as simple as switching channels. They did things this way as a direct result of player complaints in other games.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5517

4/04/13 3:07:54 PM#38
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by DAS1337

Except those games aren't built around three faction PvP.  I don't quite understand how the campaigns will work.  If my faction holds Imperial City, yet in 20 other compaigns, it is another faction, then the work we did goes for nothing?

 

This whole megaserver deal confuses me.

EVE Online does have 3 Factions: The AMarr Empire, The Caldari State and The Gallente Federation.

Star Trek Online currently has 2 Factions Klingon Empire and Starfleet with a 3rd Faction The Romulans coming in May of this Year.

It doesnt matter if it doesnt live up to what you want it to be both EVE Online and Star Trek Online have proven that a single server for a MMO does Work. EVE Online has been proving it for 10 Years and Star Trek Online has been proving it for 3 Years.

.. actually Eve doesnt Have 3 factions, it has thousands of them, it does however have 4 (ish) races, well probably closer to 10 but the 'faction warfare' is only really between  amarr/caldari and the Gallente/minmatar, though race isnt a factor in joining the faction warfare, but standing with the empires themselves, its easily possible for instance, to be minmatar and be part of the amarr/caldari faction warfare against the minmatar/gallente.. there isnt any racial lock

but the faction warfare is just a trainer for the real thing, there are literally hundreds of 'sides'  alliances etc at war with others, for dominion/control of sectors of space in a battle of sovereignty over those areas and the assets within them

also, Eve isnt instanced, there is no phasing, and.. its not even really about the PVP anyway, at least, the PVP is only a part of it, sometimes the PVP comes about because a mining corp gets fed up with another corp hoovering up their belts, which means ponying up some hardware and its wardec o'clock

STO does afaik though, have instancing where once player numbers reach a certain amount, spawns another instance to hold them, ESO probably has more in common with STO in that sense, at least in terms of the PVE areas, as the campaigns in Cyrodil are probably more 'static'

ESO though has absolutely nothing in common with Eve, neither the server makeup nor how it handles players in the game world itself, suggesting it does only highlights lack of knowledge of both games in question, let alone the mechanics behind them.

  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

4/04/13 3:33:13 PM#39

Its one server, but with different (and simultaneous) campaigns which players will be fed into based on the players they play with (friends, guilds, etc). This gives them the opportunity to balance individual campaigns by adding or subtracting to the number of players in an alliance fed into that campaign. So if campaign 1 has too many of alliance A and not enough of alliances B and C, they add alliance B and C. Of course this only works if there isnt a huge imbalance across ALL campaigns, ie, if the three alliances are split 50/30/20 in which case there will be problems no matter what, but of course that can also be handled by alliances B and C teaming up against alliance A.

In a lot of respects this will still function as different 'servers', but they key difference is that you dont choose the 'server', you choose your friends and then * they* choose the 'server' (ie, campaign) to which you and your friends are sent.

I am very curious to see how this works out, but in theory, it can handle a lot of the problems that can plague PvP games.

 

Here is a helpful summary from  Tamrielfoundry.com     http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/#campaigns

 

  • Because of the megaserver technology, Cyrodiil needs to be separated into multiple instances. However, instead of random assignment of players, ZeniMax recognizes the importance of having static PvP communities for the sake of rivalry and investment in the state of the realm war. Therefore, players are assigned (or may select) a “campaign”, which is a permanent parallel version of Cyrodiil’s realm war to which they belong. Campaigns will be named after the major cities in the region.(TF1)
  • Campaigns are designed to accomodate approximately 2,000 concurrent players each. The number of active campaigns will be adjusted to compensate for overall server population if necessary.(TG1)
  • Guilds can collectively select a Cyrodiil campaign, and players will be able to switch campaigns, however this will impose some meaningful alliance point cost. However, you are prohibited from having characters from different factions in the same campaign.(TF1)

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

4/04/13 3:37:12 PM#40
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Zohdi118

Originally posted by chumsy84 So they are going to put everyone on one server. When looking at it from a PVP perspective it causes a lot of problems. First it allows faction favoritism, as soon as one faction controls Cyrodil then everyone could swap to their alt on that faction, boom instant rewards and powerups. Why fight for something when you could just join them? Its going to cause an imbalance.

 


Had to edit......this post referring to one-world mega server which I don't believe will be happening. There most likely will be multiple shards/servers running logically using megaserver architecture. Just my two cents.




It will be one server, but with "channels". Each channel will hold a certain number of people, possibly per zone. Switching channels will be a painless process so that players can play with people they know.

If players start the game late, they don't have to worry about servers being full. If you meet someone outside of the game, meeting up in the game will be as simple as switching channels. They did things this way as a direct result of player complaints in other games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
This is a good post. Thats how I understand it, with the caveat that the game will control to some extent which channel or campaign the group of friends will be sent to. I assume the idea is to help balance individual campaigns and avoid the tendancy of some players to flock to the winning realm. The key factor is that within different channels or campaigns, there will be different factions winning and losing. Its not just one big giant server with one big giant battle. That's my understanding

 

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

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