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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Dear ZOS, Please Don't Let Paul Sage Wreck This Game...

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147 posts found
  User Deleted
3/29/13 6:29:47 AM#81
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Does EVE have faction pride?

While I don't like the game personally (I do think the design is great though) that seems to have the current 'Best PvP' title. Factions in EVE are totally player generated and player run with each faction deciding what their goal is. Faction pride is certainly present in EVE and there isn't even the slightest hint of any faction locks.

So I ask those that say faction locks are essential for faction pride WHY do you think it is essential when other games PROVE it isn't?

Because to me it seems you are unable to get beyond your experiences in DAOC and you think the DOAC model with faction locks is the best way simply because you lack a broad experience of other PvP games.

Faction pride does not exist in Eve. You have miss identified what that means. Wars are not faught between Amarr and Caldarri for example because they are seen as meaningless by the playerbase.

Nope, you guys just donno what factions are in EVE, true they can be NPC empires such as the Amarr and Caldari and yes wars are fought for those two by their factional militias, some do it for the LP and isk rewards, some are RPers, but the actual factions in EVE which go to war on a pretty regular basis are the player created ones, most notably the CFC http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Clusterfuck_Coalition_%28Player_coalition%29 and their russian foes (though the russians themselves rarely form a cohesive unit when they do... oh brother does it get wild) such as http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Against_ALL_Authorities_%28Player_alliance%29. And just to be perfectly clear hatred between those two groups is such a strong motivator that back in the late 2000s when BoB finally went down Goonswarm actually fell apart because they no longer had a focal point for their hatred (their old alliance got disbanded and they reformed under their old GIA leader Mittani).

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 6:39:18 AM#82
Originally posted by Dihoru

Nope, you guys just donno what factions are in EVE, true they can be NPC empires such as the Amarr and Caldari and yes wars are fought for those two by their factional militias, some do it for the LP and isk rewards, some are RPers, but the actual factions in EVE which go to war on a pretty regular basis are the player created ones, most notably the CFC http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Clusterfuck_Coalition_%28Player_coalition%29 and their russian foes (though the russians themselves rarely form a cohesive unit when they do... oh brother does it get wild) such as http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Against_ALL_Authorities_%28Player_alliance%29. And just to be perfectly clear hatred between those two groups is such a strong motivator that back in the late 2000s when BoB finally went down Goonswarm actually fell apart because they no longer had a focal point for their hatred (their old alliance got disbanded and they reformed under their old GIA leader Mittani).

LoL. Goonsquad fell apart because its members turned on each other. I currently live with a goon who was there at the time, the stories are hilarious.
Generally speaking that does not fall under the term "faction pride" because they are simply not big enough. Well, that and they are more often than not made up of too many small parts that are only loosely affiliated for one reason or another. Even then, what Eve has is not really viable in the type of game that is Eso is being built into. The traditional idea of faction pride is very much the "horde or allaince" paradigm that gets asked everytime you hear someone say "I play Wow". That is the sort it normally banks on.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 6:47:19 AM#83

End of the day, faction pride stems from the player getting passionate about ANY group they belong to. That can be racial, political, social or any other reason the player takes an interest in. Dictated faction pride is simply for those that struggle to think up a reason to enjoy the contest other then the reason the game designers have given you.

Lack of imagination, understanding of the variables that go into any contested situation and laziness are my best guesses for why some people simply want to be spoon fed who to see as the enemy.

 

Edit - Oh and just for fun can anyone name a conflict where the opposing forces neither entered their opponents land or didn't communicate before, during or after the conflict. Prizes if anyone can.

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 6:52:15 AM#84
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Lack of imagination, understanding 

 

I'd say "lack of understanding" sums your post up pretty darn well.

  Sentnl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 79

3/29/13 6:52:46 AM#85

If people have friends in the other factions, come Cryodiil, likely, there will be "I wont hit you if you dont hit me" . Why dont you just get your friends on ONE faction, and then problem solved.

I dont see the benefit of the other territories being open and friendly from lvl1, they shouldn't even be friendly at lvl50, you should have to be careful when going there... but I can compensate for that plan. I can't compensate for tratiors on my own faction making weird sub-alliances with other factions...

I sometimes play under the alias "Exposed". Don't tell anybody.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 6:54:09 AM#86
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Lack of imagination, understanding 

 

I'd say "lack of understanding" sums your post up pretty darn well.

Help me understand then. Answer my questions.

  Stizzled

Tipster

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1081

Kill Your Heroes

3/29/13 6:54:19 AM#87

I don't understand what the DAoC fans are all riled up about. Most of you will be playing Camelot Unchained, why even worry about ESO? Would it be such a crime if ESO became something that ES fans might enjoy?

 

There aren't enough DAoC fans to fill two games, ZOS would be wise to give up on the heavy PvP focus and just let Camelot Unchained have them. They'd be much more successful if they focused on the massive audience that their chosen IP has anyways.

  User Deleted
3/29/13 7:09:49 AM#88
Originally posted by Stizzled

I don't understand what the DAoC fans are all riled up about. Most of you will be playing Camelot Unchained, why even worry about ESO? Would it be such a crime if ESO became something that ES fans might enjoy?

 

There aren't enough DAoC fans to fill two games, ZOS would be wise to give up on the heavy PvP focus and just let Camelot Unchained have them. They'd be much more successful if they focused on the massive audience that their chosen IP has anyways.

In the singleplayer market the IP has a massive audience. In the MMO sphere it's an unknown quantity and traditionally PVPers, the actual pvpers not the griefertards you see in WoW PVP servers or the like, are a group of people which will stick to a game longer than most PVEers for less work put in by the devs ergo neglecting one side or the other is a massive handicap though arguably you could say a PVP heavy focus is more forgiving than a PVE heavy one (TORtanic anyone?).

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 7:11:05 AM#89
Originally posted by Stizzled

I don't understand what the DAoC fans are all riled up about. Most of you will be playing Camelot Unchained, why even worry about ESO? Would it be such a crime if ESO became something that ES fans might enjoy?

 

There aren't enough DAoC fans to fill two games, ZOS would be wise to give up on the heavy PvP focus and just let Camelot Unchained have them. They'd be much more successful if they focused on the massive audience that their chosen IP has anyways.

 

The PvP-community is larger than you think, or larger than you're pretending it is, and either way, they've also proven to be willing to pay $15 a month for a great PvP-oriented game, something which, so far, very few ES fans have been willing to do, who knows how many will subscribe to ESO? I would guess very few. And anyways, they'll just look wishy-washy and stupid, if they try to change their game focus now anyways.

 

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

3/29/13 7:12:22 AM#90
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by tkreep
How will that destroy PvP in cyrodil, you can still go there and fight other players of other factions.  Its like saying we cant talk to other people of other factions in real life likie we cant talk to people in the middle east or something lol.

 

This has been explained countless times, if you don't know wtf you're talking about, please refrain from posting... or find this information in another thread. Ty.

I do look at other threads and its pretty much like all the RvR fans want a limited closed game for the sake of their geeky little faction pride thing.

 

LOL. Faction Pride is what drives PvP... Sorry if we don't want to hold hands and pick flowers with the enemy like you little carebears...

Stop using references such as 'little carebears' - try to put together a coherent argument rather than falling back on this lazy dismissive dross.

On topic...

... As a hugely vocal complainant about the faction lock out - even I find the total freedom, cross faction grouping at 80 idea to be a step too far - I much prefer the first option put out by Zenimax - that other faction areas became adventure areas without enemy PCs.

That was a reasonable 'freedom to explore'/'faction pride' compromise with a good chance of working.

This new idea seems overcooked.

  Neherun

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/07
Posts: 240

3/29/13 7:13:02 AM#91

I had to check who was going on realm pride rampage here;

 

What's up Qallidex.

 

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 7:14:28 AM#92
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by tkreep
How will that destroy PvP in cyrodil, you can still go there and fight other players of other factions.  Its like saying we cant talk to other people of other factions in real life likie we cant talk to people in the middle east or something lol.

 

This has been explained countless times, if you don't know wtf you're talking about, please refrain from posting... or find this information in another thread. Ty.

I do look at other threads and its pretty much like all the RvR fans want a limited closed game for the sake of their geeky little faction pride thing.

 

LOL. Faction Pride is what drives PvP... Sorry if we don't want to hold hands and pick flowers with the enemy like you little carebears...

Stop using references such as 'little carebears' - try to put together a coherent argument rather than falling back on this lazy dross.

On topic...

... As a hugely vocal complainant about the faction lock out - even I find the total freedom , cross faction grouping at 80 idea to be a step to far - I much prefer the first option put out by Zenimax - that other faction areas became adventure areas without enemy PCs.

That was a reasonable 'freedom to explore'/'faction pride' compromise with a good chance of working.

This new idea seems overcooked.

 

Well carebear is the ideal word, but I won't argue the point, since it's refreshing to at least see one of you be reasonable. lol

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 7:14:46 AM#93
Originally posted by Maelwydd

End of the day, faction pride stems from the player getting passionate about ANY group they belong to. That can be racial, political, social or any other reason the player takes an interest in. Dictated faction pride is simply for those that struggle to think up a reason to enjoy the contest other then the reason the game designers have given you.

Lack of imagination, understanding of the variables that go into any contested situation and laziness are my best guesses for why some people simply want to be spoon fed who to see as the enemy.

 

 The need you seem to feel to insult those who like something different is also uncalled for and dilutes your point. What exactly was the point of the above if not to just insult?

Edit - Oh and just for fun can anyone name a conflict where the opposing forces neither entered their opponents land or didn't communicate before, during or after the conflict. Prizes if anyone can.

But the game is not meant to be realistic. So many things like infinite arrows, no weight, no segregated hit boxes, no weather effects, etc etc all fight against this idea of "realism". What matters is what are the rules that the developers have put forth and the players have agreed to. Afterall what is "real" about completely equal forces in Chess?

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 7:15:35 AM#94
Originally posted by Neherun

I had to check who was going on realm pride rampage here;

 

What's up Qallidex.

 

 

Haha, sup... TESOF doesn't deserve to get ALL my rampages, lol. :-P

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 7:22:32 AM#95
Originally posted by Qallidexz

 

Try playing a decent game, then you'll understand... I don't think I  could explain it to you, based on your level of ignorance, as I've tried time and time again to people who mistakenly share the same viewpoint. lol

I have played many games, including DAOC. If you can't or won't answer my simple questions then that is fine but you have no argument if that is the case and so your comments are worthless.

 

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

 
OP  3/29/13 7:24:43 AM#96
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Qallidexz

 

Try playing a decent game, then you'll understand... I don't think I  could explain it to you, based on your level of ignorance, as I've tried time and time again to people who mistakenly share the same viewpoint. lol

I have played many games, including DAOC. If you can't or won't answer my simple questions then that is fine but you have no argument if that is the case and so your comments are worthless.

 

 

Wth were your questions? I don't remember even seeing any question marks in the post that I quoted, lol. I will answer them, but I'm about to get some sleep, so depends on when you ask. lol :P 

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 7:28:38 AM#97
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Maelwydd

End of the day, faction pride stems from the player getting passionate about ANY group they belong to. That can be racial, political, social or any other reason the player takes an interest in. Dictated faction pride is simply for those that struggle to think up a reason to enjoy the contest other then the reason the game designers have given you.

Lack of imagination, understanding of the variables that go into any contested situation and laziness are my best guesses for why some people simply want to be spoon fed who to see as the enemy.

 

 The need you seem to feel to insult those who like something different is also uncalled for and dilutes your point. What exactly was the point of the above if not to just insult?

Edit - Oh and just for fun can anyone name a conflict where the opposing forces neither entered their opponents land or didn't communicate before, during or after the conflict. Prizes if anyone can.

But the game is not meant to be realistic. So many things like infinite arrows, no weight, no segregated hit boxes, no weather effects, etc etc all fight against this idea of "realism". What matters is what are the rules that the developers have put forth and the players have agreed to. Afterall what is "real" about completely equal forces in Chess?

Point 1. Prove me wrong then. It isn't an insult if it is true so point out where it isn't true. Answer my questions. You guys are great and playing the hard done by PvP'ers who no one iunderstands but you have yet to offer ONE solid piece of evidence that proves that faction pride is 100% relient on faction lock. I gave a simple example of EVE having all the passion and drive that means people do all the things you claim faction pride is needed to give so come on, answer the question. It should be simple right?

Point 2 - So when it suites your purpose games are not ment to be realistic (such as communication and land invasions) but when the argument goes against you you turn it around (such as not being able to wander freely around enemy lands during a war). So which is it, does the game need to be realistic so enemies cannot enter enemy territory as a friendly or not?

You guys can't even get your reasons for faction locks and faction pride straight. Quite laughable!

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

3/29/13 7:30:21 AM#98
Originally posted by Qallidexz

 

 

Wth were your questions? I don't remember even seeing any question marks in the post that I quoted, lol. I will answer them, but I'm about to get some sleep, so depends on when you ask. lol :P 

Serious question post 78.

 

Fun question post 84.

  MyTabbycat

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 306

3/29/13 7:35:23 AM#99

This is Elder Scrolls.

This is NOT DAoC.

The whole faction lock thing upsets many Elder Scrolls fans which will be far more numerous than the DAoC fans that just come along to check out the AvA and don't really care about Elder Scrolls at all.

Any changes that reduce the faction lock is only a good thing in my book.

It has nothing to do with Carebears at all. Stop trying to turn ESO into DAoC2.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

3/29/13 7:48:10 AM#100
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Point 1. Prove me wrong then. It isn't an insult if it is true so point out where it isn't true. Answer my questions. You guys are great and playing the hard done by PvP'ers who no one iunderstands but you have yet to offer ONE solid piece of evidence that proves that faction pride is 100% relient on faction lock. I gave a simple example of EVE having all the passion and drive that means people do all the things you claim faction pride is needed to give so come on, answer the question. It should be simple right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_776297&feature=iv&src_vid=uKByBgqxOw4&v=VO6XEQIsCoM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_438609&feature=iv&src_vid=uKByBgqxOw4&v=9X68dm92HVI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBIVlM435Zg

Are a solid start. There are more than a few others that go into it further, but really it comes down to basic psychology, the human brain is wired and trained in certain ways by media and evolution. Giving it the negative connatation in an attempt to discredit it because lets be honest, you are a bleeding heart and a prick is simply not ok.

Point 2 - So when it suites your purpose games are not ment to be realistic (such as communication and land invasions) but when the argument goes against you you turn it around (such as not being able to wander freely around enemy lands during a war). So which is it, does the game need to be realistic so enemies cannot enter enemy territory as a friendly or not?

See "game mechanic delivers certain experience". That is not even always the case as mechanics do not always deliver certain aesthetics, and sometimes the particular aesthetic you want could be better implemented by a different mechanic. As a designer its their job to figure out what kind of game experience they want us to have, then introduce the tools and mechanics to make that happen. I for one are not defending the mechanics themselves, they could just as easily be the wrong ones for the job. I am neither on the team, nor have I played the game so honestly I cannot say either way. I can say though that generally speaking they are in a much better position to judge that than you are. Just like a writer telling a story. Many have great ideas and do not communicate them very well. You are trying to turn the communication method into an entirely different story because you do not like where this one is going, which offends me.

You guys can't even get your reasons for faction locks and faction pride straight. Quite laughable!

Again, do you really want answers to your questions, or do you want to insult and feel like a big guy because you beat a scrub at word games on the internet?

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

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