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Elder Scrolls Online Forum » General Discussion » Is the community bringing another promising game down?

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86 posts found
  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

2/19/13 7:28:28 AM#61

 

 

I think its a mistake to make Elder Scroll's a pvp focused game. 

Elder Scrolls has been a game about exploration, developing character builds, dungeons, Guild quests, crafting, content that seems to spring up out of nowhere.

When was the last time anyone played a Elder Scrolls and thought to themselves "you know, I should be ganked right here... just camped all day in this dungeon, that would be great"

 

I'm going to try to play this game but the second i feel a forced limitation like a pvp only zone or something in the open world that i can't take on myself because of ganking im uninstalling and unsubscribing. 

 

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  BlazeIV

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/12
Posts: 12

2/19/13 7:37:14 AM#62
Originally posted by Clawzon

Invisible walls?(God forbid!)

One guy asked for access to the entire world and was nicknamed "ganker"!  Ganker? What that has to do with anything? They can easily make it impossible to attack other players in certain areas if they so desire.

Okay, so if i'm reading this right, you are against arbitrary invisible walls that prevent you from traversing from one location to another, but you are okay with arbitary "invisibile walls" that prevent you from attacking another player?  If you want realism, you need to allow for the repercusions of that realism.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 7:38:07 AM#63
op:
No

Zenimax couldn't give a toss what a handful of swg fanbois on some obscure forum think.
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16835

2/19/13 7:45:29 AM#64
Originally posted by crasset15

First off, it doesn't make sense from a lore perspective, that you can just enter an area that is controlled by an enemy alliance. A few smaller MMOs have had faction limited areas and they worked just fine. Provided that you could still enter the enemy areas, but it instantly marked you for PvP.

If the lore states that dunmer and altmer are a part of opposing factions, and kill eachother over the central cyrodiil, then it is moronic that they would happily be able to be friends outside of that area.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of MMOs where everyone is entitled to do everything, has equal opportunities, and in general built up in a way which aims to lure in as many different types of players as possible.

While I think that faction areas are a good move on their part, I have to agree that making them completely inaccessible for other faction members is BS. It should be possible, but at your own risk of  getting PvP-ed, or perhaps having completely different content in enemy areas (spying, sabotage, assassination). Walling them off with mountains, gates or invisible walls is not something I support.

What I do support, is having the knowledge that certain areas are enemy territory, and if you set foot in them, you'd better be prepared for whatever is coming your way.

That sounds about right. You should be able to enter any place in the game but some places at your own risk.

PvP flagging people in enemy territory is simple and makes sense even in a PvE game (and this isnt a PvE game). Just locking people out on the other hand is just boring and makes the game feel small and restricted.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16835

2/19/13 7:48:50 AM#65
Originally posted by BlazeIV

Okay, so if i'm reading this right, you are against arbitrary invisible walls that prevent you from traversing from one location to another, but you are okay with arbitary "invisibile walls" that prevent you from attacking another player?  If you want realism, you need to allow for the repercusions of that realism.

For me, that is the difference between PvP and PvE servers, that is an easy solution but servers with invisible walls and without makes less sense.

You can choose to play on a PvE server (even though I still think you should be PvP flagged on them as well when you enter enemy towns and similar).

Having both kinds of servers is just good, gives us more choices (that is PvP and PvE, not invi walls or not).

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15957

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/19/13 7:48:54 AM#66
Originally posted by Loke666

That sounds about right. You should be able to enter any place in the game but some places at your own risk.

PvP flagging people in enemy territory is simple and makes sense even in a PvE game (and this isnt a PvE game). Just locking people out on the other hand is just boring and makes the game feel small and restricted.

Wouldn't a better phrase be, makes a game sound small and restricted at this point? I must say though I don't remember DAOC feeling small and restrictive.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 7:54:15 AM#67
Exactly,daoc was huge compared to modern mmos, at least 3 times the size of gw2 or rift, probably something like 10 times the size of swtor or tsw. It may not be a case of taking a modern mmo and dividing it in 3, if its like daoc it will be like 3 of these mmos + planetside 2 to go pvp in. It's ironic that people are moaning about less pve content when they are probably getting more than any mmo since wow.
  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

2/19/13 8:20:47 AM#68
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Maephisto
Community Imperative #1:  Under no circumstance will you ever accept a developer's vision for their game.  We know better what makes a good game, such things can't be left to the whims of developers.

I wouldnt say we know better, but as gamers we do play them alot so you cant say we dont have an informed opinion of what makes a good game. At least from the Players Perspective

Often it seems that a Developers "Vision" is too far removed from the "players perspective" of what makes a good game because they have a "developers perspective"

I dont think Developers actually play games as much as Games do and therefore their point of view is from a developmental side which often times doesnt translate all that well into "play"

Even though from their perspective it should.

 

We "know better" because we are the ones that have to deal with the end result of the whims of developers

Its not the developers themselves we have to worry about. Many of them are gamers, and know what makes a good game.

No, its the bigwigs in suits that have never played a game in their life, could care less about a game, and frankly would take a shit on every single gamer if it meant a bonus check.  They only look at the stats, see what makes the fastest money at the lowest cost.  They don't think long term anymore.  They think, how can we make this shit ass game as cheaply as possible, but hype it enough that we will make a nice return on our investment before people realize we just fucked them in the ass without lube.

So, in truth, the players DO know more about what makes a good game then a COMPANY does.  Anyone who says otherwise are either working for the company, or are just stupid. Because in the end, the people calling all the shots, are the people that know the LEAST about what makes a good game.  Sure they can make a profitiable game, but most of that is done through marketing and hype, putting a high profile name on it(looking at you SWTOR), and catering to the more casual gamers that frankly, should not be the sole market for every single MMO made.  But well, they are the biggest portion of the market, and they are also the most ADHD.  When people complain a game has no staying power, no long term content, it is generally because the company never planned it to last at all.  It was cheaper to just make the game as cheaply as possible, but still look good on the outside(and be empty and hollow on the inside) and hope to make a profit before people started to flee and move to the next new game.

The developers themselves, are just trying to make a living.  They have two options, they can sell their soul to the likes of EA, Activision, or all the rest and keep their job, or they can walk out with their dignity and say fuck you old man in a suit, I will not insult an entire franchise just to fatten your pockets (you know like SWTOR pretty much just took a shit on the Star Wars legacy, because EA stepped in, bought out Bioware, and then tried to use their name to sell a product that never should have seen the light of day).  When you have bills to pay or kids to feed, you often leave your pride and dignity at the door and do what the moron upstairs tells you, even though it hurts with every keystroke you do, knowing that your going to ruin what could be a great game, and piss off a lot of loyal fans.

We can only hope TESO does not do the same, but sadly, we have made these hopes far to many times for me to have any reasonable chance of expecting this game to be any different.

The faction lock system itself alrady smells of 'fuck it, forcing factions will be way easier to do, so who cares if it goes against everything TES games stood for in the past"

  Darth_Osor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/09
Posts: 1102

Just because you are unique does not mean you are special

2/19/13 8:37:21 AM#69
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by ghostinfinit
Originally posted by Maephisto
Community Imperative #1:  Under no circumstance will you ever accept a developer's vision for their game.  We know better what makes a good game, such things can't be left to the whims of developers.

I dunno, this was meant to be sarcasm I think but it some ways it's sorta true.  Why not give MMO fans what they want in a game not what you think they want.  I think this has been the undoing of many recent releases over the past few years.

Because MMORPG fans:

1) Can't all agree what they want in a MMORPG, so Dev's are left to try and guess what will draw the most subscribers.

2) Frequently don't know what is good for them or the design of a MMORPG.

Dev's may miss the mark, an quite likely the fans would not fair much better.

 

^^^ This.  Just go to your favorite MMO forum and read some of the God awful suggestions.  Players want different and mutually exclusive things.  For instance...I'm thrilled to death the game will be faction and zone locked (and so are many others).  I don't want to see any stinkin elves or furries in my lands.  Unfortunately, they can't make everyone happy.

 

As to the OP's question on whether or not it's too late to change this, I would guess the answer is "yes", based on the fact they are about to start public closed beta.  Frankly, I hope they don't change it.  Voted "no", obviously.,

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 8:37:30 AM#70
Yeah needs heavy elitist raid orientated progression or wookies & lightsabers that's more like skyrim than picking a pvp model and running with it.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 8:45:29 AM#71
Why they picked rvr for pvp.
You've got one group who think TESO should be a ffa sandbox, a big budget darkfall if you will.
You've got your usual hardcore pve raid crowd, passed off because wow looks after casual better these days, who jump all over every new game wanting it to be everquest 1 reborn
You've got a bunch of butthurt swg fans inhabiting forums looking for a pure pve sandbox to play since their game got shut down.

What the last 2 would think would be "great pvp", I.e. none, using a shite voluntary flag system or ghettoed off into meaningless mini games would pods off the first crowd.
What the 1 group would want would scare away the other 2

So they pick a system in the middle, that they know will work, which the the last 2 groups can ignore, the first group won't like as much as ffa but would find much better than minigames and will also appeal to people who like rvr type pvp and the silent majority, people who like both pve and pvp, just not both at the same time.
  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

2/19/13 9:17:05 AM#72
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Why they picked rvr for pvp.
You've got one group who think TESO should be a ffa sandbox, a big budget darkfall if you will.
You've got your usual hardcore pve raid crowd, passed off because wow looks after casual better these days, who jump all over every new game wanting it to be everquest 1 reborn
You've got a bunch of butthurt swg fans inhabiting forums looking for a pure pve sandbox to play since their game got shut down.

What the last 2 would think would be "great pvp", I.e. none, using a shite voluntary flag system or ghettoed off into meaningless mini games would pods off the first crowd.
What the 1 group would want would scare away the other 2

So they pick a system in the middle, that they know will work, which the the last 2 groups can ignore, the first group won't like as much as ffa but would find much better than minigames and will also appeal to people who like rvr type pvp and the silent majority, people who like both pve and pvp, just not both at the same time.

Telling post...

At what point do you even mention any TES fan or TES game? Answer - NEVER.

THAT is why this game design is bad. It seems the last thing they thought about was the TES games and fans.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

2/19/13 9:20:05 AM#73

The took everything we like about Elder Scrolls games, removed it, applied some WOW to it, and are calling it a TES despite it having it's soul removed. Did we bring it down? No. I say the guy that wrote that game plan killed it when he made it more WOW and ES.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 9:21:48 AM#74
Because tes is a single player game, if they made the mmo exactly like tes.
1 it would be a shit mmo, swtor level of shit.
2 there would be no point bethseda working on tes6 which I really really want them to do, I enjoy skyrim because IT ISN'T A MMO, the things I like about it are decidedly un mmo like, the things I like about it are all about getting lost in an imersive world, that will be lost in ANY mmo implementation, just having chat, lfg etc.. would stop it feeling like tes to me.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 9:25:18 AM#75
As soon as you see other players running around, the game stops being like tes single player. Part of what's great in tes is the sense of danger when exploring the wilderness etc.. you loose that loneliness feeling that is such a massive part of the game experience as soon as you make it a mmo.
  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

2/19/13 9:25:31 AM#76
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Because tes is a single player game, if they made the mmo exactly like tes.
1 it would be a shit mmo, swtor level of shit.
2 there would be no point bethseda working on tes6 which I really really want them to do, I enjoy skyrim because IT ISN'T A MMO, the things I like about it are decidedly un mmo like, the things I like about it are all about getting lost in an imersive world, that will be lost in ANY mmo implementation, just having chat, lfg etc.. would stop it feeling like tes to me.

it's already going to be extremely similar to SWOTR outside of RvR. massive use of phasing for PVE, massive use of instancing for PVE, solo only story(i believe as a multiplayer game even swtor beats this). TBH, they could have made a MMO TES title, instead the lead on the prjoect chose to regurgitate an old game and slap TES coating onto it.

it will probably still be a good game of course.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 9:29:38 AM#77
Mael well is see several posts from "massive tes fans" that get the lore all wring, only jumped on the game Ao.ce skyrim or oblivion and most of their "make it more like tes" posts from these "tes fans" seem to-be "make it more like swg", "make it more like EQ" or "make it more like darkfall" posts in disguise (although I guess the DF guys have a point, I always thought a tes mmo would be like a fantasy eve, but hey glad they are borrowing ideas from daoc and uo instead of bloody wow & EQ yet again)
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6405

2/19/13 9:31:45 AM#78

OP - what community? A bunch of folks with their own opinions that are labeled as community because they go to a common forum?

Reality - the devs listen to feedback, but will always develop based on their own design, if you don't like it, there are a bazzilion other MMOs.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 9:33:46 AM#79
Im hoping the story thing is like gw2, entirely ignorable.

I disagree is like swtor, due to end game. Swtor is a glorified lobby game once levelled, like all wow clones, just sit in cities being to go to some instanced shit in a small group. Well tes doesn't have arena or bgs and has rvr, so at least pvp wise its not a lobby game. Pve wise the game has open dungeons like daoc, EQ & ac, that's very much not wow clone. I also would not be suprised if the game had big outdoor inclusive raids in the vein of daoc / coh & gw2
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 9:38:00 AM#80
Also Mael - tes doesn't have pvp (or group pve) so in a post about why they picked rvr as the pvp system, there is no equivelent "pvp wot tes fans like", that all depends on what other games they play. They may like rvr, they may be anti pvextremists they may like ffa gankfests.

If we were talking about the way quests are presented and stuff, then the "fans of tes" would be included in my post, and absolutely quests should work like they do in tes, not wow style quest hubs.
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